Saints Row dev couldn't get its head around Cell

Saints Row developer Volition has elaborated on the botched release of the original game on PS3, telling CVG in an interview "we just couldn't get our heads around the Cell technology".

"In Saints Row 1 we got about half way through the process and then we realised that we just couldn't get our heads around Cell," producer Dan Sutton told CVG. "It's just really complicated and I'm sure you noticed other games like Stranglehold push their dates up. "Cell's really, really powerful. The problem is it's also a really different system, the way it uses multi-threading technology."

[apoc615]

Well hire some qualified people to work on it.There are plenty of qualified people if you will open the check book.

[Admiratio]

"For the sequel Volition has since hired a dedicated PS3 team to tackle the hardware."

[Bubble Buddy]

Go call Insomniac and Naughty Dog.

[avacadosnorkel]

If all the PS3 has going for it developer-wise is Naughty Dog and Insomniac I for one, would be worried.

[thor]

Look even EA are starting to get games out with equivalent versions across the systems; many devs are producing better looking games on PS3, and some exclusive PS3 games are well ahead of any Xbox game out there. So I wouldn't be worried.

[gaffyh]

@avacado - Naughty Dog helped develop Edge Tools for PS3 with Sony, so they could easily help any developer. It also shows you why Uncharted looks and feels so great to play. Also Insomniac has openly said that they would be willing to help 3rd party devs that are having problems developing for the PS3.

[FantasyStar]

Don't forget to add Insomniac & Guerrilla Games to that list of Edge Tools (formally known as Playstation Edge) contributors.

[thebudgetgamer]

who wants to be forward thinking when you can be lazy and keep doing the same thing on the same architecture

[juuken]

The help is right there in front of third party developers and yet they use the same excuses over, and over again.

[Bangladesh]

While I agree that devs are improving on the Cell. I certainly haven't played or seen any ps3 games that are "well ahead" of everything on 360. And that includes MGS4, Uncharted, and KZ2. Maybe I've just played more games than you have, but I haven't played/seen ANY ps3 game that couldn't graphically be done on the 360 and vice-versa.

[tplarkin7]

The Xbox 360 is forward looking. 3-Core CPU, embedded DRAM, and the first consumer machine to use unified shaders. I think Sony was backward looking since they divided the RAM between GPU and CPU.

[shazam]

that was the most ignorant statement i have ever heard. you have no idea what you're talking about.

i posted a big wall of text on here explaining this. i will see if i can dig it up.

edit

her it is:

"The only reason why the Xbox 360 is able to have a unified memory architecture is because of the 10MB of high bandwidth EDRAM for the frame buffer. If it did not have this, the frame buffer would have to be stored on the GDDR3. Xenon (the CPU) has to ask Xenos (the GPU) if it can use some of the RAM. But if the frame buffer was in the GDDR3, there would be no bandwidth left for the CPU. So basically the CPU wouldn't be able to function, which means that the system would be unable to function. The 360 simply wouldn't work without the EDRAM.

So Microsoft chose to add more heat and cost for a 100M transistor daughter die in order to have a slightly more flexible memory architecture. In fact I bet that if the Xbox 360 had a split memory architecture and no EDRAM, there would be no RROD problem right now. Every other modern computing system riht now has a split memory architecture between the CPU and GPU. This includes PS3, PC's, Macs, etc.. I also guarantee that the next Xbox will have split memory."

[Tarasque]

Let me get my rain coat the tear's are going to fly....Boohoo....they arn't as good as Naughtydog....Boohoo....Why dont they call insomniac....Boohoo. I don't blame a single dev that doesn't wan't to make game's for the ps3 alot of them don't have the time nor the money to be wasting time learning a new tech, when there is 2 platform's you can make money at in half the time. That would be like someone asking you if you wanted this high paying job in 2 year's or 4 year's what would you pick? But if you pick 2 year's you are more likely to make more money than if you pick 4 year's.

[Dareaver1]

So let me get this right, you are knocking the 360 for its architecture in the GPU. So what if it needs the EDRAM, wasn't that the point. MS paid ATI to develop a GPU that they could utilize in the 360. All it's components are specifically designed for running on the 360. That's a pointless argument, that's just as bad as complaining about the Cell architecture.

Your argument is purely pointless. The PS3's Cell architecture is not conventional and not in common pc's, but it deserves praise; and then the 360's architecture is not conventional and not in current pc's but it should be reverted back to what is conventional. I'm sorry but your argument can't hold water without being seen as a total hypocrisy.

There are plus and minuses to both consoles architecture, but by insinuating ones unconventional setup is great and to knock the others is hypocritical. The Cell (a beast at processing power, but harder to develop for/understand, and we have the 360's (future tech, said to be 2 generations ahead on 360's release, but causes increased heat production); what was your point?

Oh and there were more variables on why the 360 had hardware failures. Where they were assembled, they weren't allowed to use a certain grade soldering. The soldering they wanted to use had higher heat thresholds, but it's impact on the environment made it not useable in the country they were manufactured.
Both consoles use future tech that might or might not be adopted to personal pc's. That's why they are made specifically for consoles.

[thebudgetgamer]

its an awesome console capable of amazing games. what I'm talking about is lazy devs that don't want to push themselves and i get that the ps3 is a beast to code on but i think its been proven that devs willing to push themselves they can create awesome software for the big black box

[MorganX]

I wouldn't call them Lazy. Development costs money. Everyone isn't EA. Why wouldn't developers use tools that are easier to use and utilize skills that can also be used on other platforms?

Microsoft excels at developer tools and supporting developers. It appears Sony does not. As it becomes more profitable, more developers will invest in learning the PS3 architecture and how to code for it well. Unfortunately, all that investment can only see an ROI once. Sony sales. Whereas development skills on the 360 can potentially provide ROI on the 360, PCs, and XBLA, on top of being easier to learn and having a larger pool of experienced developers.

It's somewhat analagous to Sony's decision to use Bluetooth for its remote. How many peripheral makers are going to make a universal Bluetooth remote for PS3? There are several for 360.

[Le-mo]

They should've asked Sony to send in some of their Ninjas to help.

[Leathersoup]

Sony's ninjas are too busy trying to get Home to work.

[ActionBastard]

Wouldn't "Sony's ninjas are too busy trying to get Home released" be more accurate? Meh. Tomato/Tomaato

[bluecapone]

saints row 2 will still be garbage i'll stick with the GTA franchise for my sandbox needs

[spandexxking]

i wanna see what saints 2 is like. sorry but gta4 sucked

[beavis4play]

gta4 wasn't nearly as good as vice city or san andreas

[va_bank]

yeah. I'm disappointed in GTA as well. That's the only reason I will check out Saints Row this time.

Unless it turns out that they STILL didn't get "their head around PS3".

[CViper]

Blew severe donkey.

Removed all of the features, tossed you in a buggy empty city to where you cant even rob banks at will..

If you are talking Crime fun, Saints Row has taken that crown from the GTA series. They remember what made GTA fun and they improved on it. GTa is now about over advertising, over hyping, and over selling. The better game is definitely saints row.

[25]

sure there was a lot of detail and care put into it. but the game fell short of expectations. i had more fun playing saints row than gta4, so i am looking forward for the sequel.

[Fishy80]

well i didnt like GTA4, not that great.
and i saw some saints row 2 video's it looks like a ps2 game :(

[keops3]

Waiting for L.A.NOIRE and MAFIA 2

[ActionBastard]

I wish they could have got their heads around an interesting story, fun multiplayer and more QA. Trying to enter a car, only to pop up on the hood is lame.

[fresco]

How about driving a car in GTA4 and it disappears lol

[themyk]

are you talking about saints row. or gta4?

because from what i understand. saints row multi player is going to piss all over gta4s multi player.

gta4 wasn't THAT bad of a game. they tried to take it in another direction.

saints row is going to be fun as hell

[mistertwoturbo]

Meh, this is sooooo 2006/2007 news

Anyway, they don't need to just get their heads around the PS3, but the 360 also. They have last-gen animations for crying out loud.

[Ravenator529]

At least he is being honest. They just couldn't get it down.

[Expy]

It's a sign to hire better software engineers.

[TOSgamer]

Blaming 3rd parties all the time is getting kind of old. I say this as a PS3 owner. But if you bothered to read the article he says Sony didn't have the support in place to help them when problems arose back in 2k7.

[dachiefsman]

come on you should know by now that people here don't read articles.

if an article says something contrary to THEIR system, its defense mode automatically.

[Snukadaman]

Bubbles for you man...No one likes to blame sony for most of their problems when in fact sony is guilty for all of them.

[va_bank]

Right. Konami, Naughty Dog, Insomniac, Incognito, Infinity Ward, Tecmo, Poliphony Digital even EA (Burnout) all did it, but since Volition couldn't, I'd say it's definately SONY's fault.

</end sarcasm>

[Drekken]

Cell is the future. Quit your crying and conform.

We should of just stuck with black and white TV's. We should of stayed with rotary dial phones... or better yet: phones that you tap the phone and ask an operator to connect you. We should of stayed with dial up internet... why lay new cables? We should of stayed with crank engines - who wants to learn how to make something new and BETTER. We should have stayed with computers the size of a room costing thousands of dollars - screw evolution and technological advances... they are costly and time consuming to learn.

The cell is still being tapped into and will evolve just like old tech chipsets have... This is the first gen and it is blowing away quad/dual cores... so you tell me: Why should Sony use old school, played out tech? To make devs life easier? Give me a break.

[FantasyStar]

It was the same for PS2 that developers had a hard time with the Emotion Engine as well. I'd give it time- like another year or so. I do blame Sony for the harder architecture leading to crappy ports, but well..that's the price you pay for the advancement of gaming technology.

[Bangladesh]

Sony & Toshiba were not trying to make leaps and bounds in computer technology when they paid IBM to engineer the Cell. Sony was looking for a chip that could be used as a CPU/GPU hybrid (just like Emotion Engine) as well as being a powerful video decoder for the blu-ray movie format that they were developing. Toshiba was interested in a powerful video decoder for their HDTV's. The Cell isn't the future of PC boards or gaming. It's a cutting edge video decoder, and a "poor man's" multi-core processor(though the Cell has one core). What some of you are calling the "future of technology", is actually nothing more than two companies that needed a cutting edge video decoder for their HD products.

http://www.afterdawn.com/ne...
http://www.videsignline.com...
http://eetimes.eu/showArtic...

[trikster40]

saying Sony should have gone with a more conventional setup goes against the entire grain of what made the console gaming market great. In other words, they should have made it like PC architecture like the 360? Over the last 2 generations, the Playstation brand is the only brand that constantly evolved and improved over the lifespan of the system. That isn't saying others didn't, but the PS1 and PS2 pulled some $h!t off that no one thought possible, like God of War 2. I am glad Sony thinks outside of the box because it leaves SO much room for learning and evolving the way games are made.

[Bangladesh]

From what I see though trickster40, Sony has done gamers a dis service. They built a machine that was over-priced and built entirely around injecting the public with their in-house movie format. Do you honestly believe that they had gaming in mind when they put a chip that not a single developer knew how to use in the beginning. I think it's great that GOD of War has graphics on the same level as Gamecube and Xbox games. But wouldn't it have been nice to have that quality day 1, instead of 6-8 years into the console cycle?

[trikster40]

People always say that the PS3 is only to get their format in...has everyone forgotten about PS1 and CD-rom, then PS@ and DVD-ROM? Can you imagine a game now without at least the DVD format? It is already starting to show that DVD just isn't enough, so what is so wrong with Blu-Ray?

Also, it's not like the PS2 would have looked like God of War 2 from Day 1. The PS2 came out a whole year before the Gamecube and XBox, and it could pump out graphics as well as any of them, and you constantly saw improvement from each generation of games. The same can not be said for the other two systems. What is wrong with pushing the ways developers think? Like any industry, it is those who push the limits that break them.

There is nothing wrong with making your system easy to develop for, but ease can only take you so far. Developers like to push the boundaries, and challenege themselves. Most devs who lead on PS3 really enjoy programming on the cores.

[RAM MAGNUMS]

too bad gta4 is the king.
I get that the cell is powerful. Everybody knows that fact.
I'm sure they want to work on it more because it impresses them
but its hard when you try to make a game trying not to use the power
just to make it equal to DVD & xbox360.
its kind of retarded.
now that they learned that lesson, expect a volition exclusive in the
pipeline. I doubt they will quit knowing they could have done more.

[Says you]

Guerrilla did that with Insomniac and Santa Monica some developers are so damn! stubborn!!

elitewh0re I was talking about the first game you fool.

[elitewh0re]

didnt you read the article..? they did.. sony didnt help...
edit:
so am i.. :S and no need to get derogotive, lighten up fella

[TheRocker9122]

If you ask me.. they're being lazy..

[NMC2007]

I am sooooo sick of this comment, lazy devs, gimmie a break, if they were lazy then this would be on X360 and Wii and not trying to bust their ass to put it on PS3, yeah, lazy.

[elitewh0re]

@ above.. yeah i can agree, its easy to throw the lazy card about, but I can see it from the otherside, i'm sure sometimes they develop just to the bare-minium when porting, hence the lack of polish. but in this story, they did ask for help, and none was given.

[Silellak]

It's not lazy - it's math.

X - money needed to develop a game for the PS3.
Y - estimated sales of game.

If, due to inexperience with the system, X > Y, the project is going to be canned, because it won't make money. I'm not sure they planned for the Saint's Row port to the PS3 to sell that much, since GTA4 was the much 'bigger' name.

[ReBurn]

The "lazy devs" comment is so old. I'm sure that every single person who drops that line has the experience to do it better, right?

[kingme71]

I think these PS3 type stories are going to be in past now that so many devs are putting out their first release on the PS3. Some of course are on to #2 and beyond. The collective knowledge has reached the majority in the industry, so the talent can be hired and knowledge shared.

[PimpHandHappy]

never even heard of these guys

have they done anything else other then Saints Row?

anyway

2bad for them because i think Rockstar left the door open for a REAL good sandbox game...sounds like they wont make it happen

[TheColbertinator]

@Pimphandhappy Volition made a game called Red Faction.It was the one of the first if not the first game to have destructible environments.It was a fine shooter on the PS2 and Xbox

[dro]

and when devs finaly get the head around the cells it produces the best graphics, gt5p/mgs4/uncharted e.t.c....just imagine if gta4 was exlusive to the ps3 and it had mgs4 graphics and the cars lookes like gt5p cars..to bad we will never find out because gta5 will not be exlusive :(

[Sitdown]

just imagine that the character graphics and cars never look as good in sandbox games compared to more linear games because of the amount of content and things that take place........come on now, no need to start a fire. For example...explain GTA 2 and 3 for the ps2........it held nothing on God of War 1 and/or 2..

[PimpHandHappy]

yea i really liked Red Faction

are they also doing the new version of that game? I seen a demo of it at E3 and it looked really good.....

[CR7JUVE1897]

is less and less stories of developers saying "We just couldn't figure it out", to more and more stories of "Eurethra!!!!! Now, we get it!!"

And the quality will show.

I'm sure that there is a lot of untapped potential in the 360 as well.

[Drekken]

How do you figure there is untapped potential on a box made out of spare parts from Bill's closet?

Computers have had the same architect as the 360 for years. I hate to break it to you, but nothing is gonna pop out at devs that will make you say WOW. Anything they add to a game, they will have to take away something else. 360 is close to tapped.

[Dareaver1]

drivel. Neither consoles are close to being tapped out this generation. They have just started to use more SPU's on the PS3 side, and on the 360 side, they are finally starting to use more then one processer and let's not forget the dual threading that is possible on the console.

You are just showing ignorance and bias for your specific brand of choice. This won't be like the other generations. These consoles have a wealth of potential with their respective CPU's and GPU's.

So cut the crap.... They are both awesome and when developers start to really and truly understand multi threading; we gamers win big time...!

[Arkham]

"Eurethra!!!!! Now, we get it!!"

(Wrong word, or were you just suggesting that devs were being "pissy"? ;)

[xg-ei8ht]

i do agree, sony should have had more support early on considering that's it's a harder system to develop for.

I suppose once you get your engine fully running, and over time you update, it just gets faster and faster.

That's why it's worth building a sweet system for ps3, as time goes by and ps3 userbase grows, if you've got a good game, running smooth, your gonna sell mega:)

This is the same reason why valve are having problems, gabe cannot get his head or stomach if you will around it.

[FantasyStar]

They need to dump that old-age Steam Engine. Touting that old PoS as next-gen is an insult to this gen! The steam engine became a PoS the moment the Unreal 3 Engine debuted.

[poeo]

Steam Engine? i think it's the Source Engine.

sorry for nitpicking heh

[Time_Is_On_My_Side]

I think for the most part this may have to do with generations than difficulties with the Cell. If you really think about it the Cell was made by humans not a forn race in outer space. Like for example many people previously didn't really need school to get jobs and most of them can't even read properly. Now you need an education for everything yet at the same time I'm not saying it's easy.

All I'm saying is that for the most part it looks like a generational thing more than anything else. I can be wrong, I can be right, or a little of both. One thing I do believe is that the architecture that the PlayStation 3 has will catch on with other companies down the road with their consoles. It's like when everyone though automatic transmission was impossible and now it's the standard. I think that for the Cell architecture, just look at Killzone 2.

[elitewh0re]

urg, wouldn't dream of driving a car in auto..
on topic though, intersting theory which can be applied to a lot of the industry.. interesting indeed! bubbles+

[DanWelsh86]

I couldn't think of anything worse than driving a car with auto gears.

[Time_Is_On_My_Side]

I needed something and cars was on my mind at the time, plus everyone knows about cars (easy to relate to). I also said this because Gabe Newell is known to hate the Cell's archecture and guess what, he's born in 1962 (45 years). I'm not saying every senior developer will hate or can't learn it. Just look at The Lab with Leo Laporte born 1956 (51 years) and still keeping up with technology. He's rough around the edges but knows more than an average person.

I see it in my work place all the time some people just reject anything new / changed. It can get fustrating because some of them just won't let go, always angry.

[DJ]

But luckily that's changed, with Sony and their first party developers sharing a TON of documentation and technology with third party studios. It's inherently just learning proper multi-threading that's difficult.

[f789790]

You better start learning because the its only going to get more complex.

[Drekken]

amen.

[edhe]

It's sad that teams have to put talented devs into figuring out the mess of the cell when they could be making the 360's version extra extra shiney instead.

The concept of the 360 holding back the ps3 games (whilst laughable) is quite ironic considering all the effort that goes into making the cell work up to a decent standard could make the 360 version extra wonderful.

Sony better learn next time around and create a hardware system that works with the devs, not against them.

[themyk]

your right.

god forbid these developers have to learn something new.

because god forbid somebody try to advance the technology. we should just all use the same tech as last gen. the same tech that everybody comfy with. that was games can just keep looking and playing exactly the same.

maybe thats ok with you for the 360.
but the playstation has ALWAYS advanced the technology. and i think we are all reaping the benefits. even your 360.

[Sitdown]

Oooo, I am sorry......how did removing the rumble from the sixaxis and then bringing out the dual shock 3 advance technology? Hmmm, that ps button in my controller looks oddly familiar to the guide button on my 360.......come on now, lets not be blind. While ps3 has made strides in the gaming market, everything they do......is not always advancing.

[Dareaver1]

let's not forget that the 360's gpu is very advanced. Not only that, the 360 is not all old tech, maybe the dvd-rom drive is, but the CPU (3 core, dual-thread capable to 6 cores) and GPU (new, never before used Unified architecture) are very new.

I understand that the PS3 has new tech also; Cell, Blu Ray, HDMI 1.3, and some of the best sound processing tech, but don't be pro PS3 tech and try to knock down 360's tech. They are both powerful machines and they both need multi-threading technology. Neither of them are near their theoretical limits.....

We as gamers win, when they become more experienced with multi-threading technology. Both consoles benefit....

[vdesai]

Ok look you need to do a tad more research before you come in here and bad mouth either system (yes only two nextgen systems and you know it).

Lets get started there is nothing really innovative about the GPU in the 360. If you are saying that I could say that the PS3 GPU is advance. Now the CPU part saying the 360 has 6 cores is maybe ignorance, lack of knowledge, or misinformation but this is how it is. There are three cores. Each core can handle two hardware threads, so in total the whole processor can handle a total of six hardware threads. There is a difference between six cores and six threads because six cores would mean each individual could handle 2 hardware threads equaling a total of 12 hardware threads. So its not six cores its six threads.

If your unsure about something please just don't say it.

Now Edhe and sitdown go talk to yourselves in the open zone because you two clearly don't belong here. I agree both console have potential in them. Now themyk was not trying to down the 360 (though it may seem like that, maybe poor word choice?) he was just saying the Playstation brand has always brought innovation to table. Its true, even if we stick with mediums we see that. Playstation working CD in gaming (no didn't forget about the sega CD, but it failed for a reason), the PS2 brought DVD gaming, finally Bluray.

[Dareaver1]

not only that, the 6 core thing was a typo, because as you can see i said dual thread, i meant to say 6 threads.

As far as the 360's gpu is concerned, it's a departure from conventional gpu makeup. and with it's unified architecture and daughter die, i think it can be considered advanced. at least many people on the pc forums where impressed with the tech inside the gpu.

Edit: i understand what you are saying, but i was just defending the 360 from the seems to be new adage that it's full of old tech. I give both consoles their props and think that we haven't seen much yet, because now they are just starting to get a hand at efficient parallel processing and using multi-threading technologies.

Oh and great comment further down; the one about civilization....

Edit: funny, i got a disagree, i'm kinda curious to what they are disagreeing with....

[vdesai]

I was referring to sitdown and edhe for the badmouthing part. Yes its special but the PS3s GPU has its own qualities but GPUs are nothing to get riled up about until they can sacrifice cores so you can increase processing speed equaling parallel processing with the processor.

[sajj316]

I can't get my head around the cell either. Then again I'm not a PS3 qualified programmer. Oh wait a minute ... see what I did there ;)

[MGRogue2017]

Anything new...? lol.

Sony has messed up this time. We all know it.

[clintos59]

Coreect me if im wrong and im not trying to sound like no expert or a fanboy since I own all three systems. But I find it funny that these devs complaining are all third party devs but when asked a question like which system is more powerful, they say both systems are about equal or the ps3 has more proccessing power but the 360 has a better gpu? I mean wtf?

How in the hell do they know that both are about the same? Reason I say this because its quite obvious these third party devs dont know how much they can get out of the ps3 because they dont know what Insomniac, Naughty Dog, and all these other 1st and 2nd party devs know about the ps3, and u know why? Its simple. U build an engine strictly for the ps3 from the ground up and u get amazing results in games like Insomniac, Naughty Dog and many other first and second party exclusive games on the ps3 are showcasing.

U will never get results like what we seen with Uncharted or Killzone 2 or Resistance 2 bringing over ports from the 360 architecture because it is just different. I mean just look at one of PC's top devs who created Quake Wars. He is always complaining about ps3 architecture being hard to dev for but if Carmack is such a genius PC dev then why cant he make anything that surpasses MGS4 or Killzone 2 or Resistance 2, or Motorstorm 2, or Uncharted? This just proves that first and second party devs for the ps3 know what they are doing and we can trust them more then any third party dev just for the mere fact that Insomniac and other first and second party devs for the ps3 have built engines strictly for the ps3 from the ground up and know how to harness the ps3's capability's more then third party's ever can.

Thats all I got to say but hey only time will tell but just look at the results we are seeing in first and second party titles we are seeing from the ps3 at this early stage of the ps3's life cycle. If they can get this much out at this early stage, damn I can only imagine what we will see down the line. It can only get better when third party devs learn to harness the power of the ps3, but for now sit back and watch the first and second party devs for the ps3 blow us away. I seriously cant wait to see how Uncharted 2 is going to look. Should be amazing and mind blowing. Naughty Dog also said we wont have to wait long to see what they are working on but Uncharted 2 is definately confirmed. :)

[DA_SHREDDER]

Most of these devs that talk smack about the ps3 cant even make a good 360 game. Its really Ironic dont you think?

[Sitdown]

"I think it is safe to say that the ps3 is truelly next gen and the proof is all right there in all these third party devs complaints of it being hard to dev for, meaning"

1st, let me just say that because something is harder to develop for does not necessarily mean that it is next generation. 2nd, if you want companies to release games on your console........is it not in your best interest to give them support needed? That is one of the reasons you hear less about this from developers developing on the 360......Microsoft's software background came into play when they created items to help ease the "growing pains" for developers.

[vdesai]

I think he also wanted you too read the words below the bold ones maybe you might gain some knowledge and lose some fanboyness if you read it.

[Sitdown]

Ummm, I read his words to begin with...and even after reading it again my comment it still legit. Get off the whole fanboy bandwagon.......that usually comes up when somebody say something that you do not necessarily agree with, or really do not have a good response too. I own all three systems, and a psp.....and I do not have a problem enjoy either of them. So try again. I would make the same comment if we were talking about the xbox 360, wii...or any other gaming system. Being a "fanboy" does not put money in my pocket...so I have no need to defend a console to the death....I am more interesting in expressing truths that benefit video games as a whole.

[vdesai]

Well Sony has put out support there are tools to help you develop games. This is the first we have heard of this guy saying he needed help I bet its the same thing with sony. If they dont know you need help there is no way they can help you.

[Sitdown]

Now I can agree with that.....just because you need help, does not necessarily mean that you asked for it. But in the article, he makes it sound like Sony just did not have the resources to oblige. What ever the case is......I would like to see any console designer/maker do what is needed to make sure great games come our way. That way I as a consumer decide what I want based on options available to me......not because it was the only thing available.

[CViper]

I for one am glad that the ps3 brings new technology to the table. It challenges developers to stop making games within their original comfortable levels and gets them to explore new ways of doing things. Its the only way we are going to get new -types- of PS3 console gaming imo. Killzone2 is amazing proof of what can happen on the PS3. The post processing, the deferred rendering, the scale, the sound, is NOT happening on any other console. You get further when you don't just recycle an old engine for a medium spec PC in the form of a console.

Naughty Dog and Insomniac are great developers. But the Saints Row crew could have also contacted Criterion or Infinity Ward for help. The list of developers that are confused by the cell is getting shorter and shorter. Its getting to the point now to where it just makes your studio look inadequate if you cant adapt to new technology. They cant use the "OMG ITS TOO IMPOSSIBLE FOR GAMES ITS NOT POWERFUL ENOUGH" when everyone else including multiplatform developers are pushing out good titles.

I love to be around to watch the paradigm change. So interesting :)

[sajj316]

Exactly ... this was the same argument for PS2 versus Dreamcast!

[mistertwoturbo]

To be honest, we haven't even really seen what the PS3 can do yet. We're infact still a long way to go.

[clintos59]

I mean why is new technology made for? Its made to be figured out by people wanting to see what results u can get out of the new technology. I find it pretty annoying for devs to say something is hard to work on like the ps3 but yet at the same time they knew it was coming and sony being a great hardware company, they shouldve known the ps3 was obviously going to have a new architecture. I mean were they really expecting sony to just build something that is the same as the 360? I mean what good would that be competition wise if sony was to build something almost exactly like the 360 then there would be nothing competitive about that and also consumers wouldnt find anything great about the ps3 to buy it over the 360. But since the ps3 uses bluray and has a way different architecture, it makes consumers think more and see which system is going to be worth the money out of the 2. See where im getting at? But totally agree wit CViper.

[Playstation Man]

Red Faction Guerilla confirmed crap for PS3?

[360theAssasinsCreed]

Any of you PS3 owners that have upgraded your harddrives can you give me any suggestions on which ones to look at?

Both internal and external i know it has to be a 2.5 inch SATA drive just wanted some info on which brands are the better ones to get and which ones your happy with if you upgraded thanks.

[AshleyRiot]

Good article. It really doesn't surprise me they had problems though because they had problems with the PS2 aswell. Summoner for the PS2 was filled with tons of technical problems. But then they went on to release Red Faction, Summoner 2 and Red Faction 2 minus the problems Summoner 1 had. I think Volition is very talented and I'm really looking forward to the next Red Faction and hope they decide to make another Summoner game.

[Highwayman]

This is somewhat concerning. I read an article awhile back talking about the demise of civilizations. It's an interesting new field in science, one that studies this in particular in an event to guess when we our civilization might fail. They've come up with what they think will be the end of ours. Technology. It's a good read, one that opens the eye to what's going on and taking place, of course it should be noted that this is an early research field as the poster notes, but still an interesting read that is thought provoking.
For anyone interested.

http://alfin2100.blogspot.c...
inevitable.html

I'm not saying that this is the case per se. But it is interesting these guys know how to progam and stuff yet the technology is beyond their grasp...

[vdesai]

I love it educated post in a not so educated story. Bubble. To put in my 2 cent, I believe that sony and microsoft will cause the fanboys to form armies leading to a holy war and both sides will kill those who do not give into their blind beliefs. Now to make an educated comment. I believe that each civilization has died but in its wake something bigger, better, and smarter has risen. There is no doubt that the longevity of our "eutopia" is in question due to the current situations but its hard to forget when things happen to you while there are things going on around the world which would dwarf anything like this ever happening. But if you notice each civilizations peak has been its down fall, though it may not seem that way but the stability far over shadows the instability that was faced before the downfall of anyone civilization. There is one exception our current civilization, leading me to believe we have not yet reached the peak of our evolution, will be when man gives away all his wills to technology. This will begin with man giving away all his wills to a few in power (oligarchy) which is becoming clear as we go on through life. But the problem is we are all BLIND to this because we cannot open our eyes. The things that are happening,it boggles my mind when I think the people gave away their privacy in order to be protected this is no truth this is no justice. Our only hope are the nations least blinded by technology those who are informed those who know more then the information their TV sets provide or the internet provides. When cell phones were made cheap and affordable man had lost one of its streams of knowledge and when TV because widely accepted we lost the other. If you do not take this chance to protect yourself no one will.

[elitewh0re]

nice link there! (y) albeit not really relating to the article it does incite some interesting questions, and states some serious flaws with modern day man, dependency on technology... eeep

[gano]

Leads to a blank blog page. Man was looking forward to reading it put it's been took down.

On Topic: It takes time to get used to anything new. just as long as the game play without bugs.

[Dareaver1]

it's not really our giving into technology, but more or less, the average person giving up their responsibilities and thinking that everything will take care of itself....

Technology is technology, it's what we do with the technology that causes all the problems.

Look at the hypocrisy of our democracy. We the people are suppose to have the power, but when we voted for our commander and chief, we the peoples vote got overturned by the electorial college, which are our representatives. They are suppose to represent what we the people want, then why did they vote opposite of what we the people wanted.

And there is the foolish thought that ignorance is bliss. Ignorance is deadly in every way. Those that are ignorant relinquish their lives to those that are in power.

Look at how in the U.S. we charge people for healthcare. Does that make any sense. It's not your fault that you are sick, but i'm going to charge you to help you. What is the logic in that. Might as well be charged for the police and fire fighters too.

Another bigger issue, is that profits are out-weighing the betterment of humanity. Look at Stan Meyer, he made an engine that runs on water, but controversly he died of a brain aneurism (sure he did). Money and profits are man made commodities, yet they take precedence over the betterment of mankind. Look at the electric car.... There is so much suppressed tech out there that would better humanity, but are being suppressed for the sake of money.

And modern day medicine is a complete joke.... (i'm more or less referring to synthetic drugs)

[Highwayman]

Here you go guys. I got the link here, sorry about that.

http://alfin2100.blogspot.c...

Anyways, as I said this is a new field of research, so...these guys have a very interesting outlook on this, but because it is this field is so new...they could be wrong, also check out the comments on the story as there are a few links to chase down. I've been reading this blog for some time now, always some very though provoking posts there.

[Dareaver1]

About that blog, have you played Mass Effect. The game is based heavily on that theory. When a civilization hits a peak it is destroyed. But in the game they have a deliberate catalyst....

[Highwayman]

Yes, I have. In fact I am on my third playthrough right now. Brillant title!

Yes, I noticed this as well. Another thing of note is that in Mass Effect we have a chance to survive. A bit of a moral tale. We have a choice, but in real life...Probably not so much.

At any rate, I don't believe that we've yet to reach that point exactly, though it is strange how we're at the point in where the technology is more advanced than the men running it, it seems...Yet, the only problem I have with the theory they present is that, if the technology is becomes too complicated for man to run effectively. Then how could man keep creating more and more advanced tech, but really the piece is focused on problem solving. Still in our civilization we rely on all of this advanced technology to do it for us.
A bit of an eye opener really. Though I suspect we won't really reach our climax for another 100 years from now, 200 years...But who knows these guys could have it wrong...

[ParadoxicalAssassin]

That's because their STUPID!!! HMPH!!! *folds arms*

[jessyskate]

I cant wait for this game to come out it will have a smaller town than gta4 but i know that it will be more sicker to play

[JasonPC360PS3Wii]

In other words "it sucks for gaming" should be used to guide rockets, not video games.

[deathray]

ha ha that's funny. stupid, but also funny in a strictly retarded way.

[power of Green]

When the sequel looks worse than the original you kind of come to this conclusion on your own.

PS3 gimped SR2, yet again PS3 handi-capps a game for 360 by default. I'm sick of this lowest common denominator sh*t, hell even if devs try to match the versions and the 360 is lead, the 360 version is still being fuced.

[JasonPC360PS3Wii]

Yeah agree, I'm tired of mutiplatform games on the 360 being held back because of the PS3.

[360 man]

nope i hav to disagree saint row 2 is gonna be amazing

wen it comes to saint row gameplay by far out shines graphics

[GameDev]

im tired of the human race being held back by two idiots who hump their 360's on a daily basis.

the only thing holding the 360 back is micro-softinthehead's extremely poor design choices for their console.

[JasonPC360PS3Wii]

GameDev... if you have to advertise that you're a GameDev, means your not a GameDev. Nice try though, naming yourself GameDev to try and establish some elite credit among anonymous internet gaming nerds. Now excuse me while I go rename myself EpicDev so I can "pretend" to be somebody I'm not, maybe more people will like me and believe that it's true. Even if a game developer should come here,(doubtful) how would we know if he didn't work on a POS game like Haze or Lair? It's funny yoy saying "two idiots who their 360 on a daily basis" while your d!ck is stuck in a PS3. Wanna know what the word "hypocrite" means and what it looks like? Just go stand in front of a mirror, and look at the ugly ass face looking back at you.

F**king noob, know how many people have tried that over the past few years this sites been open?

Have a nice day...:)

[IzKyD1331]

you think devs enjoy making games on DVD9 and having to compress everything?

[n00bzRtehgey]

Cell is not designed for general purpose programming (games). It's designed to decode blur-ray movies. Don't believe me? Don't care :)

[GameDev]

of monumental idiots like this one who have NEVER programmed a day in their life yet feel qualified to identify the different types of programming out there.

what exactly is general purpose programming?? something you pull out of your ass?

GAMING simulations are anything BUT general purpose. IDIOT.

[B1ueBurner]

Good news for PS3 owners?? Bad news for everyone else that has to f&cking wait on the PS3 version if they want it to launches on the same date. F&CKING PS3 If have to wait any longer because that Piece of SH!T system development tool. ^$&%&#^%$$%@#^%%@#^%$^ $^&^&%&*(^(*^*(& ;^ I've been waiting for this game since I finished that first one on the 360. I had more fun playing that than GTA4 to be honest.

[Andor_Trask]

baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwww wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

[Raoh]

like Bubble Buddy said

sony and insomniac have allotted a small team from insomniac to help any developer with learning how to develop for the ps3.

what makes that sad is that insomniac has been delivering great gaming since day one to the ps3 which even they have said is not that easy but rewarding. after their games, financial and time invested still manage to lend a helping hand to other developers.

companies should admit they either are lost or financially underfunded.

[SpaZaA]

I'll take inFamous and Prototype thanks.
also for people to actually read the article. Here's the last bit.

"...Sony didn't have the support to help us out during the Saints Row 1 development. But now we have that support and it's really exciting."

[beoulve]

Thanks for reassuring us, that your products on PS3 is going to be sh|tty when it comes up. I will avoid it as much as possible. Again thanks for your honesty.

[dkgshiz]

I would rather play GTA 4. The first saints row sucked balls, this one is going to be the same thing. I mean its made by THQ! THQ has 2 bit devs. Their used to their microwave box. This game is just too much, everything about the game has to be gangster. Its really ridiculous. I mean they try to make little white men be black. Everything in the game has something to do with gangster rap. GTA 4 killed this game. Saints Row is an epic fail.

[Big Jim]

Maybe, just maybe, the problem isn't with all these developers. Maybe the problem is that Sony shouldn't have made a console that is so damn hard to develop for. What good is the cell if almost every multi-plat looks worse on the PS3 and really good looking games like Uncharted and Killzone 2 are very few and far between? Thanks for making everything a pain in the azz Sony.

[blade206]

http://www.gamesonsmash.com...