Why Bethesda dropped the 'Elder Scrolls Online' subscription model

Examiner had the chance to chat with Elder Scrolls Online Game Director Matt Firor about what went into the decision to drop subscriptions in ESO.

[ArchangelMike]

Yeah, everyone and their mother saw that coming a long mile away. I love the PR shpiel through, he spins it as though it's the best thing that has happend to ESO. Nevermind the fact the there is a huge outcry about being able to buy EXP for cash. In other words they've implement a pay-to-win F2P model and called it 'convenience options'.

[thekhurg]

It's not pay to win. Please learn what pay to win actually means when pertaining to MMO cash shops.

[ArchangelMike]

Is pay-to-win not a system where a player pays cash to obtain XP or +bonus items ahead of other players who choose not to pay up?

[breakpad]

with all these MMorpgs out in the market ..i wonder these guys didnt have any game consultant or even their game director to see the terrible generic quality of the game ??? Koreans are making 10 times better MMORPGS and dont charge them , and they decided to release this garbage WITH subscription ...i m sure before it was released all people could tell the game not only cannot support subscriptions ,cannot even support itself as a game even if it s free ....so much potential , so many money on developers to make a foreseen mediocrity ...

[Christopher]

***Is pay-to-win not a system where a player pays cash to obtain XP***

Not, it's not... That's pay to advance faster. And you're not "buying xp" but buying potions to increase how much xp you gain while normal questing. You're not "winning" and once you hit the cap... all you're doing is learning alternative skill trees, not winning because of them.

The fact that people don't understand this and are translating xp potions to pay to win is going to create a sense of entitlement that's ridiculous.

MMOs that are not Pay2Win but have the exact same thing: SWTOR, Rift, Age of Conan, Neverwinter, and more.

[DanteVFenris666]

You can't buy exp for cash though...

[ArchangelMike]

Ok so it's about buying XP boost "potions". There where a few articles about it a while back...

http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...

[DanteVFenris666]

Again they aren't in the game.... Those are rumours and speculations

[Xristo]

Learn what P2W means before you comment.

EVERY F2P/B2P game has convenience boosts... that is NOT P2W.

P2W is when you can buy end-game weapons/armors/abilities that are either not available in game or near the end of a gear grind to reach, skipping all content to compete at top tier.

Here is the list of all the Crown Shop items. You will see that all the consumables scale up to ONLY Rank 10 at the most. Seriously, do some research before you come up with this crap.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/On...

[MysticStrummer]

"Learn what P2W means"

Yeah not just him but everyone agreeing with him. Unbelievable.

[Volkama]

"convenience boosts" are still awful and have no place, regardless of how narrow your definition of pay to win is.

[JasonKCK]

IMO "Pay to win" Is paying for an advantage, any advantage.

[Christopher]

***"convenience boosts" are still awful and have no place, regardless of how narrow your definition of pay to win is.***

Disagree and people are losing any credibility to this argument if they continue to think this way.

MMOs cost millions a year to maintain. They need to get that money somehow. It's not through subs since gamers hate paying for things. So, they sell convenience items that are not at all necessary... and now it's awful? Has no place? You do realize that other people are essentially paying for the cost of a game so you can play it, right?

[MysticStrummer]

"Is pay-to-win not a system where a player pays cash to obtain XP or +bonus items ahead of other players who choose not to pay up?"

No.

[DanteVFenris666]

The boost is hardly noticable. basically by the time your 45 they will be 50. Not very ground breaking. It's just a nice tiny bonus if you sub

[sigfredod]

Because since day 1 they announce it most of the people say that was going to bomb with the $60 tag and the monthly sub? and indeed bombed on pc when was released

[Father__Merrin]

I'm interested, does this game have essentially a single player game?

[EvilWay]

I don't think so it's a MMO

[MysticStrummer]

Not exactly but there is more solo-able stuff than with most MMOs from what I've read.

[joab777]

I prefer subs for the mmo's I play. FF14 is the perfect example. When you play an mmo, you log a ton of hrs and definitely get your money's worth at 10/month. And you can stop whenever.

My issue is when they nickel and dime you like DCUO, and you end up subbing anyway, but then they add on 1000 microtransactions, and it ends up costing like $50/month to keep up.

If they had sold it for $30 and charged 10/month to play, 25/3 months, I'd be down. Thats less than $60 for 3 months. By then, you would know of its worth your money to keep playing.

I hate exp boosts etc.

[Th4Freak]

My problem with the current subscription model is that if you don't have enough time to play then you will lose your money.

I used to play a lot of FFXIV but then I could only spend a couple of hours per week playing and then I realized that it wasn't worth to pay $15 for a 30 days subscription when I could only spend around 20 hours per month playing.

Now its been a while since I don't play FFXIV because the subscription isn't worth it however if the system only discounted the hours that you spend playing then that would be a good model (for us) but I guess that wouldn't be so profitable for them.

[Kingdomcome247]

I get what you're saying, but 15 hours for $20 sounds like a really good deal. I don't play MMOs, though so maybe it's not.

[Kingdomcome247]

I meant $15 for 20 hours which sounds even better to me, but then again that may not be viewed as a good value for MMOs.

[Nio-Nai]

Then why attempt to keep up? MMO's are usually worlds that constantly update and the end game content is only for those who actually put in a lot of hours to learn the content that is there.

If you play for maybe 1 hour a night and none on the weakends you won't be doing the core of the game which is raiding. MMO's 0 to max level is all about learning the game. Everything after requires far more effort.

[Th4Freak]

@Kingdomcome247 Perhaps you're right but I think they should offer more suitable subscription plans for those who don't have a lot of time to play.

@Nio-Nai This might sound shocking to you but some people play video games to have fun not to be the best and all that.

And I don't know about what MMO are you talking about but Raids on FFXIV wont take you more than 45 mins at least you got really bad people in one of the 3 teams, if you go with your own team you could easily complete them under 30 mins.

Also one thing that I love about FFXIV is that everything is simple and clear, there aren't secret tricks that only experienced players know and stuffs like that, it doesn't matter how slow your pace is, eventually you will reach the top. Another thing is that the game was made to hold you back and playing for months, there are quests that will take you a minimum of 3 months (mount quests) to complete, it doesn't matter how fast you complete them, the system will only assign you a number of quests per day and the same goes for the Allagan Tomestones, you use them to purchase the best PVE gear and there's a limit that you can get per week so it will take everyone in the game a minimum of 1 and a half months to purchase all the gear.

[Nio-Nai]

@Th4Freak

Good luck trying to complete turn 5, 10-13. It's pretty much impossible to do even turn 5 in ff14 with a PUG, you need a dedicated group.

As for secret tricks, yes there are. Playing the market is one of those nice little tricks, same thing for crafting. As well as actual dungeon and raid content quick completion.

And yes it does matter how slow you are, you won't be getting top tier raid gear if you are a slow player.

And anyone who is a good player would know the advantage to creating multiple characters is to get the tomestones at a faster rate just for the specific class on that character instead of just focusing one character at a time, you simply only focus on those that you need the specific cross class skills for.

[Th4Freak]

@Nio-Nai I already completed those, several times actually... You can get them in less than 35 mins in a PUB and less than 20 with an arranged team.

As for the secrets i'd appreciate you to be more specific because there's no such a dungeon and crafting secrets tricks, not to count that anyone in the game can tell you how to make money out of the market, thing that so far is useless at least you want to buy a property which again is useless.

"And yes it does matter how slow you are, you won't be getting top tier raid gear if you are a slow player. "

Its not like you will eventually get the drop you need...

"And anyone who is a good player would know the advantage to creating multiple characters is to get the tomestones at a faster rate just for the specific class on that character instead of just focusing one character at a time, you simply only focus on those that you need the specific cross class skills for."

Well that would make a bit of sense if it wasn't for the fact that by the time you're getting tomestones the gear that you get in raids is better than the one that you can buy with tomestones, I mean I even have entire iLvl 120+ sets for classes that I don't even play, reason why most "good" players don't make several characters for something as dumb as collecting Allagan Tomestones....

Lastly again you seem to be missing the point here, as I said before video games are meant to have fun not to live an imaginary life. If I give a thing about raids or end game content and i'm having fun doing my own stuff why should I stop playing the game? Where does it says that I have to be the best and have the best gear and all that in order to play a mmo? I mean thats just ridiculous.

[DragonKnight]

Bethesda didn't do anything. Zenimax did.

[OrangePowerz]

Yeah sure "listened to the players" and that's why it was changed to F2P. Nothing to do at all with the game underperforming when it comes to the amount of subscriptions they had.

I love PR they try to spin everything, no matter how unbelievable it is.

[shade549]

Because money talks and Zenimax realized that nobody bought into their subscription model. Capitalism 101.

[theFAYEsorceress]

simple: the game wasn't good enough to warrant the sub price.

[DillyDilly]

Spin bitches spin this shit

[MasterCornholio]

Its really not worth the subscription in my opinion.