Evolve director on DLC: 'I don't like people thinking we're doing underhanded, dirty shit'

Destructoid writes:"Evolve was peddling pre-order bonuses before its publisher had even shown off what the game looked like. A year later, we have a better idea what type of experience Evolve will offer when it releases next month. However, concerns regarding its business strategy linger."

[Mankey]

Change how your going about this then.

[DarkOcelet]

"I don't quite understand the knee-jerk negative reaction to DLC. Because I know for me, as a gamer, when I have a game I really love and I play it for a while and I want more, I want more. I'll pay for it. I don't mind."

Does anyone believes this Bs, people who buy your product expect a full game not one where you hand us the rest for a very steep price. If you want to expand the game then make a sequel, dont make people buy a monster for 15$. WTF! And PC monster edition is for a 100$. Go **** yourself. People are better off buying Bloodborne or some other game releasing at the same time.

[Yi-Long]

Vote with your wallets, people!

Stop supporting greedy devs and incomplete games, and start supporting full products and devs who care about their customers and products!

[UltraNova]

I bet this guy makes 10 cents on every dollar they manage to squeeze out of us through DLC.

Guys I think its about time we all stood back for a second and just think about our beloved hobby and the shit storm we are currently experiencing in the name of online connectivity.

- Butchering games then selling us the rest as DLC

- Pay to win

- Season Passes

- Multiplayer only games with either botched or missing SP elements.

- Releasing broken almost un-playable games for the sake of meeting corp deadlines or the now dreaded yearly release.

- Over-promising and under-delivering especially on the visual department.

- Pre order "bonuses" which were or should have been part of the original game.

- ON disc DLC content which is going to became available for purchase later on (I m looking at you Destiny)

- My personal favorite>>> Locked in game assets which have to be bought to become available.
You want this beautifully rendered super fast car that happens to be in your racing games's car selection? $15 please! (yeah you bought the damn game just to be allowed to buy the rest while playing).

... could go on..but I wont.

The fact that we are part of the problem here makes things even worse.

When we buy into shit like this we are directly telling these leeches that they have our permission to keep doing it and why the the hell not, take it to the next level while their at it.

Personally I will never give into this shit, NEVER. I will never buy=support these "games" and their money-hatting developers/publishers.

I just hope more of you stand up again and help change things for the better, just like we did back in May 21st 2013.

End rant, over and out.

[Mankey]

Couldn't agree more. I think its especially important to let them know that its not that we are against additional content, its that the way this is being handled in this case is unacceptable.

Full Price = Full Game, develop additional content after you have released the title.

[ThanatosDMC]

I remember before the game was first teased they talked about releasing 20 or so monsters for the game. It was during one of their interview when they mentioned Monster Hunter as their main inspiration. Not sure how much that has vision changed.

[Palitera]

This.

Their biggest problem is not that they are dirty. Their problem is being not dirty enough. Other devs are doing the same stuff, but since they blatantly lie about their games, they break sales records. Take Destiny as an example. You gotta be 100% committed by your lie. They shouldn't have revealed the price of monsters DLC, since fair business is not an option.

[morganfell]

I guess this:

http://www.thejimquisition....

really stung and the Robb couldn't stand the heat.

Its laughable reading this sort of nonsense:

"There are way too many ideas we cannot fit into the box,"

You announced the first DLC before anyone had ever seen the game. A $15 character.

[spacedelete]

basically he wants to do dirty underhanded shit but not get caught.

[iceman06]

Not true...he just doesn't want you to "think" it!!! LOL

[geddesmond]

DLC and Downloadable games have become way too expensive this gen. All that means to me is no problem, too expensive then me no buy. I'll wait for the sales or the remastered GOTYs next gen lol.

That borderlands remaster is a great example. I played Borderlands 2, bought 1 DLC episode, traded in game, never played the pre sequel cause I moved next gen and now in March I can get the 2 games with all DLC, level cap adjustments and crisper graphics for the same price as I would have paid for the pre sequel right now.

I think us gamers should be more in control of what money we spend on DLC. Publishers know gamers have this addictive trait that a gambler would have. It's why I have wasted countless euros buying stupid DLC that offered me no enjoyment but I had the money to spend so I spent it.

What would happen if no one bought this DLC? They would reduce the price in a sale months later.

[-Foxtrot]

Well you are giving us the "wrong" impression so far

People are only calling what they are seeing, I mean hell even the collectors edition for this game is ALL DLC....come on.

[Mankey]

yep, proceed with caution, I believe is the best course of action here. Am I hyped, oh yeah. But lets not fool ourselves into believing there is no possibility this will be a disaster.

[TheSaint]

Then don't do underhand dirty s***. Not a difficult concept that one surely?

[Blues Cowboy]

Was about to write this, no need! Well said.

[Godmars290]

Someone really needs to change their definition of "underhanded" then, don't they.

Learn what it actually means then look in a mirror.

Know what? A "petition" - and by that I mean declaration - which says "Then Do Not Do Underhanded Dirty S***" needs to be sent to this guy signed by the gaming community in general.

[Jdoki]

There's nothing wrong with building a game that can be expanded through DLC.

The idea of new Hunters and monsters in future IS a good one.

The problem is how the Dev has gone about promoting this, and also the price point they have slapped on it.

When Nintendo can pump out Mario Kart DLC that gives phenomenal amounts of content for a low price - other devs just look bad in comparison.

[DragonKnight]

You don't think there's anything wrong with building a game that's unfinished by design and has elements that should be in the finished product be sold at a premium in pieces?

[Jdoki]

Of course I have an issue with that. And nothing about my comment even hinted I agreed that's OK.

I have no idea about the motivations and intent of Evolve's devs, and 2K's influence on this - but they look bad, and maybe it'll hurt the game in the long run.

Everything about the Evolve DLC has been handled badly. Even if the Devs had genuine intent with what they've done, that have made a huge mess of it.

But I don't think anyone could claim a game like Mario Kart intentionally had stuff removed so it could be sold as DLC. As a customer it's the difference between feeling like we got a full game, then being given the option of getting even more, versus, feeling like we're being screwed over even if that's not the case.

[DragonKnight]

"There's nothing wrong with building a game that can be expanded through DLC."

That's the hint you gave. DLC should never be used as a way to complete a game. DLC should always be optional bonuses that add to an already complete game. Kind of like a "what if this happened" scenario or "wouldn't this person look good as this" not a "we could easily have this playable character in the retail release, because everything about it is 100% complete, but we've decided to lock it behind this paywall instead. If you really love our games, you'll pre-order to get the FULL experience."

Mario Kart is a bad example for you to use. The game could literally have 2 characters and 4 tracks and be a complete game. It's a kart racing game. Sure, the fact that it has so much more is definitely awesome, but people could easily have an enjoyable experience with minimal options in a game like Mario Kart, especially if you factor in online. Plus, Mario Kart doesn't exactly lend itself to being able to have a lot of stuff you could lock behind DLC. Another track, another character among the already huge roster, Nintendo already releases a lot of content in the main game so even if that kind of DLC happened, no one would feel left out for not getting it and no one would feel it's an incomplete game if you can't play as Metal Mario in the retail release.

[Jdoki]

That's your interpretation of what I said, but whatever. I was coming more from a coding point of view, that it makes sense to put hooks in to the game to allow DLC in future - in case the game is popular.

What you appear to be arguing about is actually nothing to do with whether a game is complete or not... it is the timing and the perception of the DLC.

For example, If the Devs had said 'We have X budget and Y time to make the game so you'll be getting 4 Hunters and 2 Monsters' most people would have accepted this (as they did before the DLC was announced - no one argued the game appeared incomplete).

If the Devs then announced DLC 3 months or whatever after launch, and made it good value, I'm sure people would have been excited to get more content, not angry.

Instead they created content, held it back and then charged a lot to get it.

Mario Kart is not a bad example. If it had 2 characters and 4 tracks it would not feel complete. We have no idea whether the DLC was held back intentionally to make money, but it doesn't matter because the base game a) feels complete and good value, b) the DLC was released an acceptable amount of time after the base game and c) It adds a lot more content for not a lot of money.

Ultimately we're arguing about the same thing :) That Evolve appears to be incomplete and content was intentionally held back to make money either by 2K or by the Dev.

[ifistbrowni]

@dragonknight,

"Mario Kart is a bad example for you to use... another character among the already huge roster, Nintendo already releases a lot of content in the main game so even if that kind of DLC happened, no one would feel left out for not getting it and no one would feel it's an incomplete game"

That was exactly his point? Mario Kart offered you a full retail game, and added DLC that felt optional.

When you release DLC that feels like it should've been part of the retail release, that's when the issues arise.

I haven't played Mario Kart since Gamecube, but the new Mario Karts DLC plan should be how all games approach DLC.

[Infinity_Rasta]

Then stop doing that underhanded, dirty PATHETIC shit.

[iNFAMOUZ1]

you still have a chance, stop doing YOUR shi* and we will BUY your game!!!
come on guys, this would suck if we skip on this cause of that

just imagine how many more sales games now a days would have if devs would stop selling part of the game as dlc??

probably millions more

[Ps4andxb1]

You can't release dlc alongside a full price game and expect people to not think your swindling them.

If you had the time to make the dlc whilst you was making the game, then that dlc should be part of the game as standard and not incur additional costs.

All in all, bad business decisions on this game has hindered profits already.

Lesson to be learned - if you try to con and hurt the gamer, the only thing you are conning and hurting is your profits.

How to do dlc right - forza horizon 2. Huge bang for your buck right out the box. Few months later a huge and cheap dlc island appears which extends the game massively.

That right there is how you do dlc.

[Jdoki]

Couldn't agree more.

A lot of it comes down to perception.

I'm sure it takes a lot of effort to design, build, test, balance new Monsters and Hunters... but if they are ready to go on Day 1 it feels like we're being ripped off.

With Forza Horizon 2, even if that DLC was started during the main development period it comes across as good value because it wasn't available on Day 1 and it priced sensibly.

[ifistbrowni]

"Lesson to be learned - if you try to con and hurt the gamer, the only thing you are conning and hurting is your profits."

That remains to be seen. I hope every one follows through (I know I have) and let their actions speak louder than words.

The uproar on the internet makes it seem as if Evolve is going to sell terribly. But, you never know until the game releases and see if people "stick to their guns."

Evolve would be a perfect "word of mouth" game. Example: I buy the game, think it's awesome, explain the mechanics to my buddy and then tell him how awesome it would be if we would cooperatively take down the monster, he goes out and buys, etc.

But, with the DLC fiasco, I'll wait for the full retail edition (it's inevitable), and then start the word of mouth process unless this game gets price cut to like $30 soon after launch.

EDIT: Plus, this game wouldn't even be fun without friends. It'd only piss me off playing with randoms who wouldn't work as a team. I would never suggest for a friend to buy a game, only to have to tell him if he wants a special character he had to pre-order or buy the season pass ($40 total).

[AmkOwns]

Learn from rockstar how dlc's are made to be.

[Skate-AK]

You mean lowering your cash rewards to promote the Shoehorned Microtransactions? Or announcing a feature (heists) you don't release for over a year since you first announced it?

[rawrock]

Evolve is a blast, cant wait for the 10th! Every company handles dlc badly. Its all stuff that could have been put into the original game. Its the way companies make money now.

[GearSkiN]

After this whole DLC thing about them, guarantee that this games sales is don't reduce... Considering me giving the beta twice a chance, and stills don't know how I feel... Hoping I'd fall in love.

[NicSage]

I've played the Alpha & Beta & this game just pisses me off when I play it, i'm not missing out.

[shammgod]

i won't be supporting this project

[lemoncake]

The core game is severely lacking for a full priced game that is what makes this whole thing look so shady. As it stands this game should only be at the max half its current retail price and the DLC pricing needs to be resonable, which it isn't.

[VVgamer4lifeVV]

I'm getting a bad taste in my mouth about these dirty DlC tactics.

It's all about consumer confidence, lately it's been down in terms of DlC and AAA titles.

I guess when in doubt just wait for reviews and don't buy at launch.
As of now my trust resides with rock star and Valve.

My Shiitlist: EA, Activision, and Ubisoft

[BoNeSaW23]

morganfell posted this link to The Jimquisition, while I am not a fan of Jim Sterling and was hesitant to watch, he gives you a lot of good criticisms and comments.

You have to watch this if you are interested in buying this game ever!

http://www.thejimquisition....

Turtle Rock's forums should be flooded with this video!