200°

Women Speak About the Bayonetta Franchise

Andrew N from Negative World says: "In respect to the various conversations in the industry lately about the representation of women in video games, Bayonetta has become a bit of a fascinating franchise to me. On the surface, it would appear to be a sort of cut and dry contender for one "side" of that debate (feminists, social justice types, etc.) to line up on "sexist" while another side (to be honest I'm not sure what they call themselves?) lines up on "not sexist". And that is certainly what I expected to see. For instance, prominent feminist critic Anita Sarkeesian is definitely not a fan. However, I have many friends who identify as feminists, the majority of which fall loosely on the "plenty of games have problematic / sexist representations of women" side in these debates (more or less), and as talk of the franchise started heating up due to the upcoming (at the time) release of Bayonetta 2, I began to notice that the opinions, even from self-described feminists, are divided on the Bayonetta franchise much more than I expected that they would be."

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Concertoine3476d ago (Edited 3476d ago )

This was a great article, i like seeing the different takes. This will always be a difficult topic, but the way i see it, a sexist female character is one that is constantly under the order of men, or exists solely to be sex appeal. Megan Fox's character from the Transformers movies always struck me that way for example.

But Bayonetta, while sexually charged and meant to be attractive, does have a caring personality and a good sense of humor. She also never stops at achieving her goals, and essentially ridicules everyone who tries to stop her.

I find it kind of funny, but to anyone who's played Shadows of the Damned, Garcia Hotspur is basically the male equivalent of Bayonetta. He's attractive, covered in tats, his shirt is ripped open, his design is a walking series of fetishes just like Bayonetta's height, glasses, outfit, etc. He also makes tons of dick jokes, thrusts when he fires his gun (called the boner) and such.

And yet there is not one, NOT ONE, article discussing him as an objectified and over-sexualized male. In essence, a sexualized male character flies totally under the radar, while a much more developed sexualized female one simply cannot exist without controversy.

That is sexism in its own much more understated form, if you ask me.

edit: if you guys liked this article, definitely vote the site up. i sure did :D

Metallox3476d ago

This whole situation is so complex when it shouldn't, seriously. Just because Peach is weak or Bayonetta is confident in herself, I hardly would think women are or must be like that. After all, everyone should think and be as they want, as long they don't affect the decisions of others. Women can live like they would like to, having stereotypes in the media is not an impairment.

Video games are products made with creative decisions, and all of them should be respected, as long as they not harm us. Having females characters like Peach is not a problem, or at least not for me. We can easily avoid them, by educating children on gender equality, and telling them they must demand it WHEN THEY NEED IT, not to . Because after a few generations implementing this education you eventually will get your so desired egalitarian society, even in the media, video games included.

joab7773476d ago

Exactly. The changes that stick flow upward and outward, not downward and inward. As times change and ppl change and educate their children, differences occur. Then these differences are reflected in the contemporary art such as movies and video games.

I have no problem with Bayonetta because she is empowered. To be honest, women have desires and fantasies. Like men, they know that they can't always live that way etc. But, it's entirely about the fact that Bayonetta is in control, running the show.

Concertoine3475d ago

I never take offense from a character like peach, especially since she is a product of her time, when character development in games was non existent. I definitely wouldnt want every character to be like Bayonetta haha.

I should elucidate, while a sexualized male character is largely ignored i certainly wouldnt want that to be an issue. I was just saying feminists were being counterintuitive by disparaging a character like Bayonetta. There are too many big-titted, useless, whiny sexualized girls in japanese media constantly bending over and blushing, but that won't stop either. I don't see any deliberately sexualized girls like that to be intentionally sexist either, just bad, pandering character design. Its not like those designers go home and treat their wife like crap or something.

SilentNegotiator3475d ago

IDK, man...I make all of my life decisions based on the attributes of video game characters of my gender...

lol

George Sears3476d ago

Remember that for feminists, they are always the victims.

wonderfulmonkeyman3476d ago

You mean for BAD feminists.
They may be a minority, but there ARE some decent ones out there.

randomass1713475d ago

Some level headed equalists out there will identify as feminists, sometimes due to historical interest or simply because of peer pressure. Try to remember not everyone with that label promotes the radical misandry that the likes of Sarkeesian enjoy spreading about.

Concertoine3475d ago (Edited 3475d ago )

Not sure why people disagree with wonderfulmonkeyman. There is a world outside of games, and equal pay, to this day, is an issue. I think that women cant put in the same amount of work as men and get the same amount of money is ridiculous.

These neo-feminists, making issues out of nonissues, are what give feminism a bad name.

SilentNegotiator3475d ago

...yet demand to not be DEPICTED as victims in vidya gaems. Oh the paradox.

ShaunCameron3475d ago (Edited 3475d ago )

Yep. And all motivated by envy, resentment, ego, hatred, sloth, ignorance, pride and a rabid desire for revenge in the name of social justice.

@ Concertoine

It isn't ridiculous. Women simply don't work like men on top of the fact that many of them occupy professions that don't contribute anything to the company's overall well-being other than ward off accusations of discrimination. It figures when they make up the majority of those in the public sector, civil service, human resources and general paper-shuffling make-work.

Feminists have always made issues out of non-issues since forever. It's easy to do so when they rarely ever had to work for a living, living off of the work of their fathers, husbands and all the other men that pay taxes to fund the social safety net that women largely benefit from while cursing their very existence.

Concertoine3475d ago (Edited 3475d ago )

@Shaun

Edit: screw it, gonna send this as a PM because youre veering off topic

+ Show (3) more repliesLast reply 3475d ago
Fizzgig3476d ago

Really well said Concertoine. Have an up-bubble vote from me.

ChickeyCantor3476d ago (Edited 3476d ago )

" She also never stops at achieving her goals, and essentially ridicules everyone who tries to stop her. "

[Semi spoilers bayo1] She tells her self not to be afraid, which makes her the most powerful witch in existence. How is that not empowering?

Both genders are skewed when portrait. I wish we could stop talking about it like a one sided circus show, and just take games for what they are without being politically anal about it.

Solid_Penguin-643476d ago

Completely agree, there is countless examples of male characters in games that have exaggerated masculine qualities that can and do appeal to women. Such as Chris Redfield with the huge guns he's packing (and I'm not talking about the ones that need reloading), Dante with his shirt off (that doesn't serve a practical purpose, only for flair like Bayonetta) or insanely-ripped Kratos in a skirt and not much else.

I tend to visit online forums fairly frequently and have rarely seen any controversial topics arising from those (and many more) cases.

Feriku3475d ago

Absolute agreement.

I know people argue against this point of view because of societal concerns and a history of objectifying women, but I don't think that justifies viewing it from an unequal perspective.

As a woman, I'd be a huge hypocrite if I complained about a character design like Bayonetta's! The timing of this apparent controversy made it very noticeable to me. I'd just finished a game where a male character went shirtless for the final battle for no good reason at all except fanservice, and I was quite appreciative of that... and then I started seeing all of this stuff.

It's all or nothing. We can't say it's okay for one and not the other and call that equality.

frezhblunts3475d ago

My girlfriend loves the bayonetta character and the sexiness to the game

MrCube3475d ago

really??? are we really gonna discuss the objectification of men???

Why do you think there aren't more articles about Garcia?? Men have never been props, objects, sexual lures like women have been used in Video Games. So people hardly look twice or may think its funny when they put men in a role that are usually destined for female characters.

My response to you has nothing to do with Bayonetta's Sexuality, but the fact that you take the real concerns of women, and the portrayal of women in video games, and make it about men?!? "But men are sexualized too!!" This isn't the problem, society isn't focalized on the "real physical/vocal and sexual harassment" men receive because they've been socially objectified in any sort of fashion women have.

Blaze9293475d ago (Edited 3475d ago )

"Women Speak"

lol.

+ Show (6) more repliesLast reply 3475d ago
johny53476d ago (Edited 3476d ago )

It's been proven from her own mouth that Anita Sarkeesian is not a real gamer, but a fake gamer who wants to force her own agendas on the gaming audience! So why would her opinion matter?

If you want journalistic integrity, don't ever mention her in a gaming article until she can prove she plays videogames for herself and not just for sensational headlines!

WheatBread3476d ago (Edited 3476d ago )

and don't show a pic of her either because some of us are eating

SilentNegotiator3475d ago (Edited 3475d ago )

"I'm not a fan of video games... I would love to play video games, but I don't want to go around shooting people and ripping off their heads, and, it's just gross."
"I actually had to learn a lot about video games in the process"
"I AM NOT A GAMER"

--Anita Sarkeesian; contemptible liar using sensationalism as means of a business

source: https://www.youtube.com/wat...

MrCube3475d ago

Does an art historian have to be a real artist?? No, that's absurd, do you have to be a woman to talk about women's issues, gay or black to talk about equality and human rights? NO that is also absurd.

What is a real "Gamer" anyways?? Is she forcing you to listen to her??? If not I don't see how she or anyone else is hurting you.

SilentNegotiator3475d ago

If it's not important, then why did she outright lie about it in her TV interviews, tedtalks, etc?

wonderfulmonkeyman3476d ago (Edited 3476d ago )

There are a couple of people interviewed on that article that gave me the distinct impression that they were more interested in pushing the "Bayonetta's creators are sexist and so is their entire game!" agenda, without actually having looked beyond the eye candy to the woman using it, her actions and reactions to the various points in the plot, and the uniqueness that her openly sexy nature brings to her combat capabilities and style.
They didn't really look at what makes controlling her, fighting AS her, and discovering more about her world so exciting.
They just focused on the traits that they felt made her sexist, and that was it.

One comment was a perfect example; "The trailer for Bayonetta 2 has what I can only refer to as a 'vag shot' for crying out loud."
No consideration was made for why she was using that stance; the fact that the whole piece of building she was standing on had been split in half and that using that stance would have made it easier to keep it under her feet whilst aiming, while also giving her a more tensed stance should she need to suddenly jump away.

The first thing uttered was "Nope, Crotch Shot, that's sexist!", and then the whole situation was disregarded.

There was no deeper thought to the opinion of those moments, no actual reasoning to the disgust beyond extreme feminist ideals.
It turned into a knee-jerk reaction that was made to condemn the character in and of itself, and by extension the game.

That, in my opinion, is what makes a BAD feminist, that shouldn't be taken seriously.

donwel3475d ago

They either fail to remember, or just don't know (in which case they shouldn't be commenting) that Bayos character artist is female and she's said that she designed Bayonetta that way because she thinks it looks cool.

wonderfulmonkeyman3475d ago

They actually do acknowledge that point in the article, but they dismiss it with some BS along the lines of "She's thinking the same way as a sexist male" or something stupid like that.

Basically, they disregard the fact that her creator is female as a non-point so that they can feel justified in putting Bayonetta's design down as a sexist waste.

I just can't fathom that kind of hateful mind-set.

donwel3475d ago

@wonderfulmonkeyman
I've seen them use that way of dismissing criticism/facts so many times now I just don't even feel sad for them anymore. The best way I can think to describe it is that it's very cult-like, scary stuff man.

KennersEd3476d ago

Eat, Sleep, Game, Repeat.

i don't care if a few feminists think boobs in a game is sexist, im gonna carry on playing :)

gamer78043475d ago

I liked the format of this article. I did notice in one instance a interviewee said that the "men in charge of bayonetta". The person who designed bayonetta is actually a woman. She said it makes her feel empowered by both her sexuality, abilities and attitude.

Also, when giving a statement its also best to say "i feel" or "i think" some of the interviewees tried to say i see how some can "view" it as empowering, but it actually "is sexist". This is trying to pass one's own opinions on as fact while dismissing other people's views.

I do appreciate the author and the interviewees from giving their opinions, its always nice to hear multiple viewpoints.

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70°

Bayonetta Developers Discuss Plans Of A Sequel

The creator of the Bayonetta franchise Hideki Kamiya appeared in an interview and discussed the plans for the future of the series.

CrimsonWing69405d ago

Let’s hope they don’t go the prequel direction… yeesh

70°

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jznrpg409d ago

I loved Asura’s Wrath . It’s my avatar still to this day

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I remember Remember Me, I haven’t forgotten that it was actually a good game.

70°

How Bayonetta's Character Has Changed Since 2009

Bayonetta's character design and abilities have changed a lot since the series debuted in 2009, with new costumes and dark arts in every title.

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