70 Year Old Take On MGS4

Brian Crecente of Kotaku writes: At 70, my dad isn't probably the typical Metal Gear Solid gamer, probably not even the typical gamer. But after watching me play through chunks of Grand Theft Auto shortly after its release he vowed to pick up the Playstation 3. Why the PS3? Because the original Xbox, now a magnet for dust in his house, got a chance and it was the Playstation's turn, he told me.

So on launch day my dad made his way to the only GameStop in Moultrie, Georgia, a town of pecan trees, tobacco warehouses and business-stopping high school football games. He got there before opening and stood in a line of one just to pick up the PS3 Metal Gear bundle.

[Vojkan]

"I think," he said slowly, "that they need to decide if they want to make a game or make a movie."- o please give it a rest. Dont play it if you dont like it.

This is something like this "My dad is 70 and i gave him hardcore title, just so he can get frustrated and give me some crap so i can write it on my blog."

NO ONE CARES!

[sonarus]

lol. Don't be so quick to judge. The dude got stuck at vamp battle. I felt for him because i was stuck there for a while myself

[Lord Anubis]

how can you get stuck on the vamp level.

--spoiler----

I mean you know the nanomachines helped him heal his body and Naomi gave you the nanomachine suppressor.

it's like putting sugar on a tea (or honey)
---spoiler---

sonarus are you devoid of imagination?

[SaiyanFury]

Well his dad is 70. Maybe he wasn't paying attention to the part about the syringe.

[Spydiggity]

you're a real jerk. grow up.

and he's absolutely right about that statement. it does seem like they are trying to make this like a movie. you play for an hour, then get a 20 minute cut scene. i think there's something like 9 hours of cut scenes...

i thought we were gamers? when i turn on a game, i want to play it, not watch a buncha diarrhea jokes.

good game, too many cut scenes, and the old guy should give it another chance cuz it is a very enjoyable game. maybe the son could beat that part for him.

and i'd just like to add how sad it is that so many people on N4G take people's opinion's so personally. YOU didn't make the playstation. YOU don't own sony. you, in fact, have absolutely nothing to do with them other than you own their machine. and if you like it, great. but if someone doesn't like the same thing as you, you have no business taking it THAT personally. you had no creative, intellectual, or financial investment in the creation of this game, console, or anything else that comes from sony (or MS). so get over it, if you like it so much, go play it and quit jumping down people's throats for their opinion.

[Vojkan]

@Spywhatever

I havent read your pointless and long comment, other than first sentence. All i can say is, i BET MY LIFE that you havent played MGS4 and yet you come here and tell us how he has the point and it is more movie than game blablablabla. Just shut up dude, you sound like moron.
Like i said, dont play the game if you dont like it, i cant hear this stupid comments anymore, no one really cares other than it being annoying and making normal people as myself really mad.

[clintos59]

you obviously havent played the game. I on my first time around beating the game, took me 36 hours to beat the game because I was obviously sneaking around and trying to find out alot of clues at the same time. I hear alot of people trying to say there are alot of cut scenes where there is, but forget the fact that there is also 20+ hours of gameplay in MGS4. More then halo 3 and gears of war single player put together. So I dont see why alot of u act like there is more cut scenes then gameplay.

[TheDeadMetalhead]

You're just an a#$%hole so shut the f^$k up already!

You find one little thing in EVERY SINGLE story and b#$ch about it to no end! Your comments are stupid and pointless so GET LOST!!

And FYI, if your illiterate eyes had read past the first sentence you would've heard him say that Grandpa should give the game another chance. But why do I bother type this you won't even GET THAT FAR!!
>:(

[crimsonfox]

i remember trying to make my dad watch a cut scene on ps1 and her would sleep
haha.
but i showed him a certain part of the ending on mgs4 and he said he really liked it.
i think this is just funny.

[Pornlord]

I didn't get stuck on Vamp, but I paid close attention to the nano machine part, as it intrigued me, and got a lucky guess. I did die several times trying to do it properly, but it wasn't to the point of frustration. I understand his point. He should get back on the horse though, beat it, and move on to the shocking last parts of the game. :) That's hardcore. I plan on playing games when I'm 70, so rock on old man... rock on.

[meepmoopmeep]

yeah, i was stuck on Vamp for the longest time, the longest boss to figure out. i can understand where the old man is coming from, the story is extremely complex for a noob and it is the line between a movie and game. but that's what i love about the franchise. some people don't like it though. understandable.

[Veryangryxbot]

Furthermore, if he cant play the game, then he shouldnt be messing around with the difficulty level.

And finally, I would think he would appreciate the storyline as it basically like growing old. You would think he can relate to Snake as Snake is going through the same phase he is?

If he cant even do that, maybe get a wii instead. Because MGS4 is clearly not meant for you then.

[PSWe60]

dad for trying something different.

My old man played Fight Night Round 3 on my PS3 when I first bought my console and he actually beat me once.

He then tried GTA IV and found it hilarious that you can get a hooker then kill her to get your money back.

[crimsonfox]

just finds it funny when you hit someone and he likes when i play online the whole fact that im hitting someone else is the funniest thing in the world to him haha

[TheDeadMetalhead]

But I digress lol.

[ELite_Ghost]

my dad was actually laughing his ass off when I was playing GTA4...

[kingOVsticks]

im pretty sure it was on liquid easy but for him to learn all the buttons and go that far in act 4 no less really impresses me.It took me a minute to figure out how to fight vamp too I kept think it was a certain amount of times i killed him a cutscene was bound to pop up but no -_-

[Hagaf22]

im gunna be a 70 year old grandpa whoppin up on my grandkids, ill show them darn kids.

[TheExecutive]

I had to bother otacon until he told me lol

[Pornlord]

I don't get to see my dad but for holidays, but he always loved RPG's for the story element. And MGS has that in spades.

[ProblemSolver]

Well, I'm 64 years old and I also play MGS4. It really reminds me on my own
sneaking missions as I was working for DARPA back in the days.

PS: Ehm ... not really. ;)

[Dark General]

Do you get back pain while playing the game as well as smoke a cig to relieve the stress of boss battles?

[ProblemSolver]

ah quite close ... two cigs ;)

[SaiyanFury]

That's awesome. I wish my grandparents were into gaming. Hell, it'd be cool if my parents were into gaming. Even my wife is only a casual gamer...

[Xi]

"I think," he said slowly, "that they need to decide if they want to make a game or make a movie."

well said old man.

[GameDev]

made a game that plays like a movie and a movie that plays like a game

[whoelse]

That Vamp fight was driving me crazy too. I had to find out on the net how to do it.

[xionpunk]

I got stuck at vamp too. Damn syringe.

[GameDev]

what syringe??? my kid beat em with a knife....that's all I'll say about that.

[BigKev45]

I think if I live to be 70. I'll be gaming also. Gamer4Life!

[Appo]

Oh, he replied, I play it like a shooter. I don't sneak around really. I just die a lot.

That made me laugh.

[Ali_The_Brit]

i really like both this guy and his dad the fact they share a common intrest and that he tries to help his dad with gaming :) really nice to hear, wish my mother cared about gaming

[wolfehound22]

"I think," he said slowly, "that they need to decide if they want to make a game or make a movie."
My response to that is why not have both. I mean what is so wrong with taking 20+ hours to beat it and having 8-9 hours of cutscenes. It would be one thing if it was poorly done or didn't make sense. But everything flowed well IMO. I mean we actually get a game that takes more than 10 hours to beat and people b!tch about cut scenes.
Funny thing is if you add up the time you play not counting cut scenes this is still longer than Halo 3, Gears of War, Heavenly Sword, Uncharted, Bioshock, COD4. You factor out cutscenes from those games you probably could combine a couple of those and still not equal the length it takes to beat MGS4. But no one takes that into account.

[Xi]

for me the problem is that videogames will never be justified as an art form similar to movies, books or music if we just copy things from movies.

Games are games, and story telling in games, should be done via that medium. Cutscenes are fine, every once in a while, but actions you preform and the setting enviroment etc all need to play a part in it too. For example, doom created a very good tone by having radio chatter in the background which was frightning, fear has the little girl popping up at random times, half life has cuscenes you can choose to completely ignore, halo has it's ai and scripted events, cod4 has it's objectives and scripted events, bioshock its setting, mass effect it's dialogue.

If all we want is to copy the movie expierence and throw in some gameplay to get from one cutsccene to the next I think it's a real step back in the genre. I always hated that about mgs, all the cool things happened in cutscenes, that was all the stuff I wanted to do.

Anyways, that's my rant, the game medium needs to move itself away from the movie medium, games need to become more free and open in their stories and they have to be more dynamic and character driven. Most developers can create a movie experience tied together by bits of gameplay, the best make that gameplay it's movie expierence.

[Whoooop]

That's your opinion... I like a great story with my games and many cut-scences if they are good.... While MGS4 has many of them and even too much for some, I love it.

Not every game is story oriented and even if they are, they don't concentrate in the story like Kojima does.... so I'm more than happy that we had the chance to experience a game like this one, with awesome gameplay and ever better story.

There are not too many games like this one out there, so it's a treat to be playing something as wonderful as MGS4, even if the story is more important than the actual gameplay.

@ Dark General below

Exactly... I always liked the fact that games were becoming more like movies.

[Dark General]

Thing that you bring up Xi. I ultimately believe in games being a form of entertainment the same as movies or books. I don't really look at how the storytelling is done as much as what is the content and how well crafted it is. MGS4 for me was a achievement in greatly executed storytelling in video games to date. I think one huge advantage for video games over movies is immersion.

When you go to the movies or buy a dvd you are watching a group or one man/woman's tale. In video games you get to play out that story yourself and you feel like an extension of the character. At least for me that's how i feel. Half-Life's 2 story is so poorly executed and hodge podged together in my opinion. I know the story is done in game as with Portal by leaving you encrypted cues to some things that's went on but the execution is just off for HL to me. If anything Codec's is one of the things i missed about MGS4. Codecs was the best way in my opinion to get a real grasp on characters since it had normal conversations and all other different types of discussions. It really showed you how the characters was.

I'm not so much concerned about game's being different from movies and other forms of entertainment as i'am about it's execution in bringing in the enjoyment. Not only from a gameplay standpoint of what you can actually do in the enviornments in the game. But also as the story unfolds, how it unfolds and everything ties in etc in your journy. Because for me games is about experiencing the overall journy of the character or group of characters their plights and ups and downs through gameplay, cutscenes, scripted events or what have you. It's ultimately getting the job done i believe in my mind of unfolding the forward progress of a video game.

[Xi]

half life's story requires much thought and awareness of both surrounding and narrative. Unlike in mgs4 everything isn't spilled out for you, it's not there shoving it in your face all the time.

Most people don't really understand the story of half life (and similarly halo), they think it's experiment gone wrong, kill aliens, but in reality you need to understand the combine and who started the entire chain of events. It's not as simple as something like mgs, it requires thought and presence. This is what really makes the videgame medium so much better then just using it as a way to make movies interactive. It turns the game into the story telling medium and that takes much more finess.

By no means do I think a story should have comprimizes made to make use of gameplay, i just think developers need to make use of the actual game, be it scripted events, dialog trees, and general gameplay or bossfights. Anything to move away from scirpted cinimatics and cutscenes and to make the game more real. Like fallout, a prime example.

However, this is purely in the story telling, I love the cinematic feel a game like MGS4 has, just like how i love halo3 and the same feel i get from that game, each feels like a block-buster movie. But i don't think that feel needs to be comprimized when making a video-game, if anything I think it should be implemented to the n'th degree and given to us to chose the story as we see fit. But I think videogames do need to seperate themselves more from other medium, it needs to becmoe more about being that badass military tough guy, and less about watching him. More about playing it.

Yes, I agree, it is a personal opinion, and it's also one of the great dividers between western and eastern story telling. The big thing is between Jrpgs and Wrpgs, jrpgs offer a more linear story progression, as if you're reading through a book the chapter and story unfolds in sequence. While wrpgs off you to take more control of the character and give you the chance to play as yourself though him.

either way, to each his or her own. And while I may disagree with your opinion, i do enjoy the conversation without having it result needlessly into ad hominem attacks.

[Dark General]

I understand and pretty much get the half-life story. I know the tyrant is nothing more but a figurehead etc. But in my opinion the fact remains that the whole alien part serves as filler more or less in my opinion. You mostly play as a man on the run trying to protect himself and lead a resistance. Somewhat. It's just not as deep to me as people make it out to be.

As for the direction in storytelling in games i can agree with you there. The industry does need something a bit more diverse in terms of furthering the plot of games besides cutscenes all the time. It's one of the things i loved about Deus Ex: The conspiracy. It wasn't about watching cutscenes but by collecting info from other characters, hacking computers, reading books and other things that happens in game. But like you said more games need to try and at least experiment in different methods of storytelling through game cinematics. But when it's so greatly like how it was in MGS4 it's hard to complain.

As for playing video games and how it correlates to the story i somewhat agree there. For me like i touched upon previously is that not so much that i feel like i'm that badass. I don't want to be that badass guy with the bfg. But i do want to experience that badass's story and what he goes through from playing the game. It's like in Portal one of the things i didn't like was the character had no voice. I know it's supposed to be immersion of you being the one trying to escape but the effect was lost on me. I felt more disconnected with the character and wish she talked during at least some parts of the game.

I can agree with you on the JRPG vs WRPG thing. I can't stand JRPG's as funny as that might sound. I can't stand the slow storytelling and like you said the linear sort of gameplay and the grinding. It feels like a chore, a boring chore. Which is funny coming from a person like me who watches anime but can't stand jrpg's. Truly ironic and funny. But like you said it's all about preference i'd rather play as an extension of the main character and you'd rather be immersed as being that character.

This was a very enjoyable discussion. I miss discussions like these on forums where it's more about talking and less about arguing.

[MoonlightProwler]

Am I the only one that knew how to kill Vamp? It was so obvious. I like Metal Gear, It really makes you use your brain.

[TheDeadMetalhead]

Hey, maybe he went to school with snake back in the 40s.
ZING!! Just kidding, MGS fans :)

[Figboy]

a 70 year old, who's only played games since GTAIV, made it to the VAMP battle in Metal Gear Solid 4 as his first Playstation 3 game experience?

COOL!

now, i love MGS4 with a passion, and stand by my statement that the game is, probably the best game of all time, or at LEAST, one of the best games of all times, but grandpa does have a point in his comments about them making up their mind if they want to be a game or a movie.

while there is, ultimately, more gameplay than movie in the title first time through, there are a LOT of cinemas to watch, and they happen often. the reason why this isn't much of an irritant to old time MGS fans like myself is twofold:

1) we're used to it. simple, really.

2) the cutscenes and gameplay flow SEAMLESSLY into each other, and i mean that. at one moment a cutscene will be happening, then, smooth as silk, the hud fades in, and you are back in control of Snake. it's impressive to see, actually.

and earlier in the story, his dad DID say that he was REALLY into the story. he just wanted to play a game too.

now, i'm not a fan of kotaku. in fact, i HATE that website, and i find them unprofessional and insanely biased and filled with the hatred of a thousand fanboys, but this story is an interesting insight into a non-gamer, and non-Metal Gear fan's experiences with the game.

we all know the game is amazing. even his dad thinks so. but it's far from perfect, and for newcomers, it could be a chore to watch. he had no complaints with the gameplay however, until the Vamp battle.

personally, i had trouble with the Vamp battle myself before it dawned on me that

SPOILERS!

"duh, NANOMACHINES! HELLO!"

END SPOILERS!

after that, it was cake. in my defense, it WAS around 6 in the morning, and i had been playing since i got home from work around 7pm (i know, i couldn't stop playing).

anyway, i find it an interesting story, and it's refreshing to see an older person enjoying a video game, when that generation just wasn't born and bred gamers like a lot of US were/are. it's not just the Wii that has the potential to bring in the non-gamer market, you just need the right material.

i wonder how his dad would react to a game like Afrika, or Buzz, or Singstar. he seems to enjoy the more, what we would call, "hardcore" games (GTAIV, MGS4). he also seems to desire story in game, but not too much, obviously. lol.

[xxBATTLECATxx]

your so right about the seamlessness of it all, i was in awe during the bike chase, it was so well executed, my goodness, it blended a movie and gameplay so perfectly that it made me just want to watch it over play it you know?

[YogiBear]

One of my fondest memories as a child was playing Resident Evil 2 with my grandfather sitting behind me watching. He liked it a lot.

P.S. He jumped at the part in the hallway with boarded up windows...everyone should know what im talking about.

[raerae28]

Thats too funny.

[sumfood4u]

Keep gammig alive!

[xxBATTLECATxx]

it didnt take me long to figure out, id stunned him like four times and hed keep coming back (one shot of the v-ring from a shotgun in the head, easy takedown)but i remembered from back in act 2 about what naomi said on the chopper about why hes immortal. when it clicked, i was like
"THE N**********!!! OF COURSE!"
that was a good fight