Why the Separation of Men and Women in eSports is Stupid

Original Gamer: "An article on PC Gamer revealed that the International e-Sports Federation (IeSF) keeps men and women in separate tournament. Not only that, men and women can't even compete in the same games. Men can compete in DotA 2, Ultra Street Fighter IV, Hearthstone and Stacraft II while women can only compete in Starcraft II and Tekken Tag Tournament 2. This rule is silly and needs to change."

[randomass171]

I'm pretty sure physical sports separate genders because of different body builds and biologically different features between men and women that creates unfair advantages and disadvantages. Gaming is more about mental prowess, reflexes and skill and last time I checked gender doesn't really affect that in any significant way.

[ChickeyCantor]

Unless it's trying to emulate realism. And for that very reason you mentioned first there is still separation of gender.

It's not meant to take a stab at women ( or men for that matter ). It's simply how it is.

Now there are a gazillion games that mix up genders regardless of their body "class". So I honestly find this whole notion stupid that it's an issue in games where the main selling point is "realism".

[Chrischi1988]

But not, if the realism doesnt go so far as to make the female characters worse, so that their lowered expectations actually make sense and are valid. But as long as the controlled virtual person has no differences in its ability to do something, it should not differentiate, even if it is realism, because it is not realistic enough, to do so.

[ChickeyCantor]

" because it is not realistic enough, to do so."

We are talking sport games here. Based on actual sports. It's trying to be as realistic as possible. So mixing up gender would only remove the realism even more.

you're basically saying "men can jump, women can jump, so therefor they should be playing within the same ranks". There is a GOOD reason within sport why Genders are separated. As well as body class.

Like I said before, plenty of other games that [unrealistically] mixes genders as if the physique of the characters make no difference. It works in one setting but not all.

It's like trying to invalidate any kind of realism because games can't do things "realistically" enough. Which is an absolute terrible argument when it comes to immersion that would lead from it.

[Chrischi1988]

Ok, you obviously did not understand, what I said. In reality, there are differences, but if they programm no differences, then they should not differenciate. If they actually put all these things in, then they can do that, but as long as the woman (at least in most sports), is not programmed to be worse, then they should no differentiate.

If you want realism, you need to also implement those things, why it has happened in the real world. It is a valid argument, if you dont like it, that is your problem.

It has to make sense, that is all.

[ChickeyCantor]

"Ok, you obviously did not understand, what I said."

No I did understand you.
You simply miss the point I'm trying to make.

" If they actually put all these things in, then they can do that, but as long as the woman (at least in most sports), is not programmed to be worse, then they should no differentiate. "

Again, it would remove realism even more so if you start changing the rules of something you're trying to mimic.

"If you want realism, you need to also implement those things"

Not exactly. What is the point in implementing realistic body stats if men and women don't compete in certain sport to begin with?
What is the point of simulating physiques if they are never put against each other. You're asking for implementations that wouldn't make a difference as to why they separate them in the first place.

"It has to make sense, that is all."
It makes absolute perfect sense. You're asking for redundancy in order for it to be "realistic". You're asking for something that makes no sense.

Games are limited to the technology they have now. You can't invalidate their "realism" because they can't do it properly. You can't invalidate it because you demand they program it to the last laws of physics. It makes absolutely no sense.

Separation of gender reflects reality. Which adds a layer of immersion. " If you dont like it, that is your problem. "

[Joe913]

How can you even try to defend this crap it is stupid and make gamers look bad it is called esports there for not real so why go for realism.

[ChickeyCantor]

@Joe913

Same reason why every other gamer here defends "Uh look at mah photorealistic gfx!!! IMMERSIONS"

It's childish to make this into a sexist issue. It's not a problem in the real world. Why is it in games where the main selling point is to have a realistic setting as much as possible?

" and make gamers look bad"
No your mentality makes gamers look ignorant and unintelligent. Stop with the dramatic hammering. I'm done with this.

[randomass171]

I'm not saying it's sexist but rather that their reasoning for it is fairly moot. Being a boy or girl does not affect your ability to play a game, so I don't see what reason there could possibly be to separate the two genders in eSports.

[ChickeyCantor]

To maintain a level of realism. It's not hard to understand.
EA sport games go for realistic settings.

You think an American Football fan wouldn't be detached from the immersion if his team is filled with female characters?

[Chrischi1988]

This level of realism has no meaning, if we do not differentiate. But ok, I see how you comment on others, no need to further discuss this.

[brish]

Chess tournaments are separate for men and women.

I'm not saying it's right just that it's common to separate men, and women into their own divisions.

[Bimkoblerutso]

There is a separate Women's World Chess Tournament, but women can compete against men in the standard World Chess tournaments.

[Ogygian]

It's not right idealistically, but it's a pragmatic temporary measure while genders are becoming somewhat more equal to encourage women to start playing chess or video games.

When we see more women winning matches in the open category, the female-only competition can be scrapped.

I mean, surely almost every one of us on this site agree it's a good thing to get more women into hardcore gaming?

[ChronoJoe]

There are a million and one research journals documenting cognitive gender differences. It isn't just physiological, not at all. For instance there are considerable gender differences on performance of spacial orientation tasks between men and women.

With that said though I don't see much point in segregation. Not unless one gender begins winning everything.

[Ogygian]

The update is good.

The female-only category is useful in trying to popularise gaming among women (while women actually play more mobile games than men, they are very much a minority in the hardcore games market).

Meanwhile, an open category allowing men and women seems to be more appropriate than a "men only" category which is pointless given that present knowledge indicates no notable biological advantage in average brain functionality between men and women.

[Gh05t]

So women can join and compete against men but men are not allowed to join women's leagues to compete... Yeah that seems equal.

[Ogygian]

As I said, the point is to make gaming more popular among women.

If we are to make video games something women think are socially acceptable (even desirable) for them to engage in then having a women-only competition is beneficial, as at present there are relatively few in professional gaming.

No, it's not ideal, and hopefully in the long term we can switch to just one competition for everyone, but at this moment in time, if we want to expand the gaming community then small sacrifices like this must be made.

Chess tournaments often do the same thing.

[NegativeCreep427]

Because women are superior, and that double - standard exists just so men won't be ashamed and embarrassed by the superior female race. /S

I guess saying all that means I'm tolerant and I'm a liberator. No one would ever call me a misandrist. Now take the above and switch the words "women" and "men" around. Now all of a sudden I'm sexist. I'm a misogynist. It's not about equality its about special treatment.

[Gh05t]

I get your point what I am saying is I disagree with you. If they want to be a part of this then they can come in all they want, but come in as equals.

If they don't want to join because they are competing against men then is that the kind of women we want to join gaming (Since this is a recruiting effort in your comment), isn't that perpetuating the stereotypes and divisions among us? (Mind you I have no problem with a female only tourney as long as if men would like to play in a male only tourney it isn't looked at as sexist. Its a double standard that is a contradiction).

Why is it a problem for some of them to play with men? Why are men not allowed the same courtesy in gaming anymore? I am all for a joint competition but to pander to one group because in your eyes its OUR responsibility to make sure more women want to play video games is just wrong.

Just because the chess league does it doesn't make it right. Its political correct BS and its anti productive to a society that believes in equality.

If women want to play games we need to make sure they are treated equally. Not actively recruit them to fluff up some sort of statistics or Quota that is about personal interest.

I like that they removed the male only tournament. I don't like that they kept a female only tournament. there is no logical reason based on equality to do this and since equality was used to remove the male only tournament lets be consistent.

[Ogygian]

Trust me when I say that I'm about as anti-political-correctness as it comes.

This is simply about pragmatically funnelling more money into the games we enjoy (so we might hopefully see more of them) through attempting to make more people gamers.

Unlike quotas (which are reprehensible), this doesn't put men at an active disadvantage, as the alternative would be one open tournament with both sexes.

[Gh05t]

I don't like using the ends justify the means scenarios.

I believe in doing whats right even if its not the popular choice and rarely is it the fair choice.

Taking away a male only league and keeping a female only league is not right. take them both away fine, leave them both and add a joint league fine. but playing sides on either side is not appropriate regardless of the desired outcome.

[sprinterboy]

I would love to see men vs women in fifa 15. would be very funny with a photo mode on ps4 showing all kind of funny positions with the detenction physics lol

[YoungKingDoran]

Shit, if someone is good enough to start at preliminaries and get into a tournament, they deserve to be in the tournament. End of story... Right? We want to know who the best player is that day, male or female they would hopefully have earned it.