Outlast On Xbox One: eSRAM Is "Small" For 1080p But Devs Achieved It With Occasional Frame Drops

"The June SDK update allowed games like Destiny to run at 1080p on the Xbox One and games like Sunset Overdrive will push for better effects, instead of a higher resolution using the latest update."

[ArchangelMike]

Xboxne's eSRam and other issues is quickly becoming old news.

[kennyg3739]

These article from Gamingbolt are becoming old, all they talk about is resolution.

[insomnium2]

The esram is a dead horse already. It's too small for anything significant. Next story!

[gameseveryday]

eSRAM is a part of Xbox One which is a gaming console. It is relevant since developers are finally getting on terms with it unlike 6 months back.

[Pixel_Enemy]

This isn't old news. We are still in the first year of the Xbox One.. Consoles are supposed to have longevity and withstand about 6-8 years. If in the first 6 months of a consoles life it is struggling to keep up and already being touted "old news" this is not good.

[ramiuk1]

the problem is resolution does matter for alo of people.
if im playing on my 47" tv 720p would be fine but i do most of my gaming on a 106" projector and i 720p looks alot worse

[tuglu_pati]

From The article,

"The eSRAM has been long touted as the reason behind the lack of 1080p games, however Microsoft seems to be working hard to resolve this issue.

The June SDK update allowed games like Destiny to run at 1080p on the Xbox One and games like Sunset Overdrive will push for better effects, instead of a higher resolution using the latest update. Having said that, the Xbox One version of Outlast still managed to run at 1080p without using the SDK update.

So how did they managed to do it without using the SDK update?"

The dev is commenting on the ESRAM since theY developed the game without the NEW SDK, so in this case talking about the ESRAM is in fact old news since they used the old SDK.

[darthv72]

"If in the first 6 months of a consoles life it is struggling to keep up and already being touted "old news" this is not good."

Is 6mos. the magic number now? By the 6mo period all devs should have a solid handle on how it all works and from that point on there is nothing but top of the line results?

i'm sorry but if these consoles are to have longevity (as you say) then that includes the growing pains to achieve more results from the hardware over a period of time. and it isnt 6mos.

I expect we will see things done on both the ps4 and xb1 2-3+ years from now that makes what we are seeing now pale in comparison. That is what really good 'creative' developers do over the course of a consoles lifetime. They improve their skills and make it appear as if the console has improved its abilities as well.

Take any console from any generation past and do a comparison of a launch title to an end of life title and there will be a significant difference in quality. And yet...its still the same hardware from beginning to end. What improved over the course of time is the skills needed to really bring forth the untapped potential of not only the hardware but the developers themselves.

in some ways, limitations are a motivator to get things done within those limits that no one else could have imagined.

[QuickdrawMcgraw]

It is only old news if you want it to go away...Too others who really would like to make a informed decision when buying their next console...It has importance...

[tokugawa]

lol gamingbolt!!

always the same clickbait.

n4g has now become an outlet for gamingbolt and dualshockers..

although never a great site, n4g did atleast have some news. now it is just spammed by dualshockers and gamingbolt.

smh

[u got owned]

That's it, im selling my Xbox One.

http://media0.giphy.com/med...

[jacksons98]

@ramiuk1
These same people that want 1080p on their phone screen act like they can't tell the difference on their Tv. Makes me laugh

[NextLevel]

Actually, it seems relevant with pretty much every release. If you don't want to discuss it, don't. But that doesn't mean the news is irrelevant, because it seems to be a frequent problem. Kinda like dismissing news cause you don't like it and attacking who people are over what they say on gaming sites.

[Dudebro90]

Its not a problem, people like you that only focus on things like resolution and sales are the problem.

"gamers" that only focus on those type of things are the cancer of gaming communities.

I bet you have issues playing Super Mario World since it runs in 480i

[snookiegamer]

People are only irritated, bored or frustrated with news such as this, is because it mostly affects their console.

Tough cookies!

If you don't like it or find it annoying...move along.

[Darkstares]

Who is it a problem for? Do you own a XB1, if not then there really isn't a problem is there. Seems odd you'd want to keep your primary focus on a system you don't support.

Anyways much like the PS3 developers will find workarounds and make better use of the hardware. They also get more headroom thanks to Kinect now not being forced to take up to 10% of the GPU.

[NextLevel]

"Its not a problem, people like you that only focus on things like resolution and sales are the problem."

Then why is Microsoft reversing every and "freeing up more power" if it means so little to gamers? Why did they remove Kinect for sales?

"gamers" that only focus on those type of things are the cancer of gaming communities."

You don't get to define the word "gamer".

"I bet you have issues playing Super Mario World since it runs in 480i"

I would if I paid $499 today, with all the technological progression that has been made in gaming.

[MeliMel]

I can tell your Mr. KnowitAll. Either way not all news is relevant. Some people just dont give a damn, pardon Frances amigo.

@snookie,

Yes, my console of choice at the moment has issues. No consistent 1080p games, esram bottleneck. ..yet as a gamer its not bothering me one bit. Im enjoying my 720p/900p games just fine. It just amazes me how the same shit gets said over and over in regards to esram and you fanboys gobble it up like the hottest topic around.

[Strange_Evil]

ESRAM theoretically can outpace GDDR5 but that would mean peak time performance all the time which in real world isn't the case and cannot be achieved.

And I think as far as I know ESRAM isn't only the main culprit for the One not reaching the 1080P ceiling. A major problem is the lack of Compute Units on the GPU (or should I better rephrase it... Less number of CU's compared to PS4... 18 vs 12 or 1152 shaders vs 786) which is the reason that some computations take more time. CUs on GPU are very important as they form a major muscle portion of the GPU.

Take the above equation and then see how the entire One architecture creates a bottle neck of sorts. For a cross-platform game, lets say we have a task for GPU... PS4 has the assets loaded into the GDDR5 RAM (no limit or bottleneck since more than 4GB space available) and the GPU crunches the numbers faster and it can render 1080P (the back and blow from the RAM to GPU is faster due to high bandwidth and GPU is up to par as well )... On the One however the ESRAM waits for the GPU to crunch number and so it is 'blocked' till the GPU crunches the frame (Also, its limited size does mean that more data cannot be loaded until the previous load is cleared and sent to GPU). People blaming the ESRAM solely have to consider that even doubling the size won't help because the GPU isn't spitting out the frame fast enough.

This is the main reason why multi-plats games that run on 1080P on PS4 don't on One. I am not saying that 1080P cannot be possible on the One but if a game is computationally intensive, then the GPU has more load on it and the ESRAM isn't used to its full potential. On the PS4 as well we have seen a few games run on 900P even though the it has plenty of space on the GDDR5 RAM... The culprit... The GPU (and of course the poorly optimized code).

Both PS4 and One technically when used to their potential can produce 1080P. However there is always a trade off. If you use all high res textures and many alpha effects etc, you will end up overloading your GPU and no amount of ESRAM can help you then.

With all due respect to the developer I believe this is the reason the One cannot hit 1080P in many cases and they should stop blaming it only on the ESRAM.

[GUTZnPAPERCUTZ]

Also keep in mind that the 12 CU's in X1 are clocked faster @ 853mhz each, vs PS4's 18 @ 800mhz ea.

[Strange_Evil]

^^^ As I said, bandwidth isn't the problem. What is the point of having fast internals when the need of the hour is more load bearing components to crunch numbers. Think of it this way... You have to lift a lot of weight and move it... You have 12 strong people and you have 18 strong people (although slightly slower). In 90% of the case, those 18 will lift more load than the 12 (in a given short time) unless there is a really big object that needs to be lifted. As a computer programmer, from my experience, you never use 100% of the CPU/GPU time all the time. There are 'bursts' of instances that require massive power and then there are lulls. In those bursts, 18 people working will accomplish more than 12 people working just a tab bit faster.

Its the parallel processing on dual core chips vs ultra fast single core argument all over again that took place when the first multi-processor chips were introduced. Slapping on more GHz then didn't make sense and the better option was to slap in a parallel core.

In 90% scenario, PS4 will have the advantage since there are more number of units. In a heavily optimized Xbox One game maybe they could match the PS4 with using the extra 53mhz on the CUs and the squeezing out every mhz from the CPU but trust me those are very very rare instances.

Hence you see developers just creating a target on the PS4 and then just scaling it to what the Xbox One can handle (which drops it to 900P in most cases). People that also keep touting that DirectX12 will be a massive update need to realize that it isn't magically gonna add in more CUs or increase the ESRAM. There is always a limit to what you can 'optimize'.

[sinjonezp]

Very good post. I tend to look at it like a hwy or as they say the road map. The esram is like a wide open hwy but with the lack of cores and smaller lanes due to the ddr3 compared to the gddr5, it creates slowdown. I tell my guys think of a road with red lights turning into a super fast hwy only to turn back to a road. In parts there will be bottlenecks and that data has to travel back and forward. When talking clock speed, that can be changed via software if ever Sony believes that the gpu can handle a higher clock speed without having issues. I over clock my gtx 570's on my computer about 50mhz very stable. Sony could boost like MS did as well. Ultimately, I see a future where MS will achieve 1080p but limited fps or reduced textures. While I can see where people would get upset about this conversation getting old, but it I believe its important to know because we live in a HD era where most gamers are gaming in native 1080p tvs and monitors. If I spend 500 dollars on a console I would want to know the quality and standard of that product. Also the discussion provides me with knowledge to make a decision on, should I get it here or on another platform. For some, graphics matter, for some, community matters, for some features matters. Every topic that is relative is worth knowing.

[Strange_Evil]

@sinjone... I agree with your post and like you analogy as well. I am a student who cannot afford any console currently over the cost of paying tuition and so I do not have a dog in this fight. We had a detailed analysis of the architecture of the consoles in one of our classes and so am sharing my 2 cents.

People get way too clingy with their machines which I understand since these are costly investments. But I hate how misinformed articles such as 'the cloud will boost the performance to 1080P' or 'DirectX will save the day' make it seem like it's purely the developers fault that games don't run on 1080P on the One.

Over this gen, the games will be optimized overtime and I hope that the One hits the 1080P ceiling, however at the current stage, the story will be the same at least for the near future

[marcofdeath]

"ESRAM theoretically can outpace GDDR5 but that would mean peak time performance all the time which in real world isn't the case and cannot be achieved."
It's ESRAM + DDR3. One pool of MEMORY.
Nick Baker: "First of all, there's been some question about whether we can use ESRAM and main RAM at the same time for GPU and to point out that really you can think of the ESRAM and the DDR3 as making up eight total memory controllers,~~ These are all connected via a crossbar and so in fact it will be true that you can go directly, simultaneously to DRAM and ESRAM."

GDDR5 PECK is 176GB/s PECK Rate. SONY'S PR line...
Real word is 135GB/s and as you use more CPU it's lower. As shown here page 13;
http://develop.scee.net/fil...

Now we get into the good part Naughty Dog GDC 2014
here:
http://www.gameenginebook.c...
Replace the CPU with the GPU for this point.
Page 141, 200+ CYCLES from the GDDR5(Off-CHIP) to GPU. IN Xb1 this is DDR3(OFF-chip). Then L2(ON-CHIP or DIE) at 20+ CYCLES, on XB1 it's the same, but between L2 and
MAIN RAM there's ESRAM(ON-CHIP,DIE). We know that GDDR5 is

256bits at 5500MHz / 8(8bits=1GB)=176GB/s PEAK to the GPU (not real-world 135GB/s).

Here is what that looks like in XB1's ESRAM output
256bits x 4(blocks of 8MB)= "1024bits" at the SOC speed of 853MNz / 8 = 109GB/s. just READ for now.

109GB/s VS 176GB/s
ESRAM 1024bits wide, ON CHIP, 100- CYCLES
GDDR5 256bits wide, OFF CHIP, 200+ CYCLES
And if you use the CPU in this case it's even worse
DDR3 works great with CPU, that's why the more CPU the less BW for the GPU as shown in the DEVELOPER papers.

Every new SDK from MS XB1 gets closer to this.
What i would like to know is why if this is a lsst gen GPU or 7790 how is it "simultaneously to DRAM and ESRAM." http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...

That's read of 1024bits and write 1024hits + 256bits from DDR3 simultaneously. where is this in AMD's family?
That's 5x the read of PS4.
That's 5x the write of PS4.
PS4 is 256bits R&W.
I see it.. It took a 5.1TFGPU with the same X86 code to run a game from a 1.3TF GPU Called FMS5.
Come on with time this will be a powerhouse.

Gamerbolt & others left out some of the facts like, Peak rates and real world rates 176GB/s sounds good but not real.

[RegorL]

A game specifically designed for XBox One could run worse on PS4. But most developers putting in some optimization efforts should reach at least parity.

It's a bit like last generation were it was the PS3 that was special... if it run well on PS3 it could be made to run OK on XBox 360 and PC.

[jacksons98]

I'm not a tech expert, but the way I look at it is every single gaming card all the way up is using GDDR5, nobody is using ESRAM and DDR3. MS just decided to go cheap.

[Magicite]

You can defend it all You want, but if indie game cant run flawlessly at 1080, then I'm speechless.

[DLConspiracy]

Its nice to hear they could do it without the new SDK. Looks like there will be a better parity in the months/years to come for sure. Now let's game.

[iagainsti120]

Slim chance that will happen once developers integrate more GPGPU compute into there games. That is were we will start to see the performance gap widen between the two consoles. Well PS4 Gpu is very almost exactly based off of the current micro architecture (hd 7XXX - R9-290x). Where the Xbox one seems to be based off of the previous generation of micro architecture (HD 5XXX - HD 6XXX). Not being a fanboy or anything I just love chips.

[Ravenor]

@iagainsti120

The GPU in the PS4 isn't even close to a R9 290x, 290x is a Hawaii chip. The GPU is based on a 7870, so it's far more likely Pitcairn based. The Xbox One is also based on the GCN and is also likely Pitcairn based (You think AMD is churning out the mid end GPU architectures?) the difference lies entirely in compute units, shaders and clock speed. Which the PS4 undeniably wins, but the margin isn't quite the cataclysmic death knell for the XB1 it's made out to be.

[iagainsti120]

@Ravenor The Xbox One's GPU micro architecture most resembles the Juniper XT cores. http://hothardware.com/news...

The PS4 With the custom audio chip (think TrueAudio)leads me to believe that is is based on the New R series cards using AMD's True audio. http://www.anandtech.com/sh...

Booyakasha.

[marcofdeath]

@insomnium2

It's not dead it's getting better!

http://forum.beyond3d.com/s...

[assdan]

Yeah I know. Everyone knows this is true at this point. Unless they're in denial.

[marcofdeath]

@imt558
This is and with time will be XB1 Hardware.
Facts:
Nick Baker:
"Over that interface, each lane - to ESRAM is 256-bit making up a total of 1024 bits and that's in each direction."

ESRAM is 256bits x 4(8MB) = 1024bits x 853MHz /8 = 109GB/s READ
ESRAM is 256bits x 4(8MB) = 1024bits x 853MHz /8 = 109GB/s WRITE
= 218GB/s PEAK

" 1024 bits for write will give you a max of 109GB/s and then there's separate read paths again running at peak would give you 109GB/s. What is the equivalent bandwidth of the ESRAM if you were doing the same kind of accounting that you do for external memory..."

DDR3 64bits x 4(2GB) x 2133MHz / 8 = 68GB/s PEAK

"With DDR3 you pretty much take the number of bits on the interface, multiply by the speed and that's how you get 68GB/s."

218GB/s PEAK

"That equivalent on ESRAM would be 218GB/s."

68GB/s PEAK ~ Real World is 40-50GB/S

"However, just like main memory, it's rare to be able to achieve that over long periods of time so typically an external memory interface you run at 70-80 per cent efficiency."

218GB/s PEAK ~ Real World is 140 - 150GB/s

"we've measured about 140-150GB/s for ESRAM."

Digital Foundry: "So 140-150GB/s is a realistic target and you can integrate DDR3 bandwidth simultaneously?"

Nick Baker:
"Yes. That's been measured."

So what part is from MisterX?

Now for the money shot MS give you real world specs not not the PR of
"It's 286GB/s"
MS give you the truth less than 200GB/s real world.

Where is PS4's PEAK IF not 176GB/s?

This shows from Sony that it's only 135GB?s real world.

http://develop.scee.net/fil...

[FanboyKilla]

Lol why is ths article the hottest thing on n4g. There are plenty of good articles on xone amongst other things. Lmfao but here you are sony fans trying to bash xone. You rather hate on xone than talk about good game news. Yeah yeah i know sony doesnt have much of that lately, but damn, i think this just goes to show the true colors of playstation nation lmfao. Sony is the best, you dont even own a xone and poof here you are. You are exposed for who you are. Your negative post are there for the world to see. Why waste your time reading an article that by now has been said a thousand times in one way or another. Hey, it gets the hits though, right? Obviously. Lmfao hook line and sinker.

If you are on this page with negative posts on xone, 97.5% of you are fanboys. And im being nice with the 97.5%. You cant take it back now we see you. Bbbbbut my arse you are exposed. You came here for one reason, to hate xone. Not to love games or learn more about them. You came to destroy games. Instead of these articles being about games and information, theyll keep putting this shit up. So gamers come on n4g yeah i said gamers, im sure there are a few left, and we see res res res res fps fps fps, where in the fuc* are the games, does it suck, is it worth my money?

A thats ok though, when im playing games this fall ill stream it so you can count the pixels. I mean what else will you be doing. Lmfao FANBOYKILLA out.

[CJDUNCAN]

It's funny how the article throws in how the game isn't taxing. So when X1 does a 1080p game I guess that's the excuse from now on.

Anywho, I don't get how the X1 developers missed the ball by choosing eSRAM. Every article they suggest that it was the next logical step in gaming. How in the heck did they see that. Maybe developers just need more time to wrap their heads around the console?

Without a doubt there will be 1080p / 60fps games on the Xbox One, which makes all of this resolution talk eventually irrelevant.

[Azzanation]

What issues? The X1 has weaker hardware yet is pulling out the same quality games. ESram has made it possible.

[XiSasukeUchiha]

Xbox 1 bottleneck is real kinda of sad though.

[kennyg3739]

What's sad is your ridiculous hate on the Xbox.. And you never have any bubbles.

[sAVAge_bEaST]

^^^^^^ Hater comment ^^^^^^^

(Blame the engineers of Xbone, not XiSasukeUchiha)

[kennyg3739]

Hater comment, what am I hating on?

[jnemesh]

His comment is relevant to the conversation. HE get's a bubble up from me. Your comment, however, is what is known as a "troll", and you get a bubble down.

It's not "hate" to point out or talk about the deficiencies of a console compared to it's competition. ESPECIALLY on a site that is pretty much devoted to such comparisons.

I suggest, sir, that you get a thicker skin...as articles critical of the Xbox One and Microsoft's poor choice in hardware aren't going away anytime soon.

[sinjonezp]

Kenny, it is kinda sad that vast amount of stories envolve the Xbox one not being able to output 1080p and that a lot of devs are stating the obvious, bottlenecks. MS took a chance on its parts, ie the ddr3 and esram. Unfortunately, it creates bottlenecks. While MS have good games, devices, etc, people do care about resolution and graphics. And what he stated is relative. If we were talking services or the price of live, the quality of live, then ok, we talk about that. This however is what it is, the xb1 bottlenecks. And , in all logic, is kinda sad.

[thereapersson]

KennyG, since when is it hateful to state facts? Even when used to put someone down, the truth is still neutral. Maybe in some over liberalized, politically correct fantasy land where truth is labeled as hate speech. Wait, that's quickly becoming today's society.

[GamerWIP]

Sasuke comments on n4g 99 percent of the time is sad. XD

[snookiegamer]

@kennyg3739 & GamerWIP

So what if XiSasukeUchiha is always here commenting??

Quit deflecting & projecting your gaming sorrows onto others. Nobody has to own any of the consoles to comment. You're just mad that Xbox One isn't the equivalent powerhouse Xbox 360 was last gen.

I'm buying an Xbox One in September for Forza Horizon 2, and the rez thing isn't going to put me off, so I don't see how it affects you enjoying Xbox One either??

You're the 'Sad' one's wasting bubbles and commenting about someone you claim to be 'sad!

...that's a whole lot more sad IMO!

[kennyg3739]

@Snookiegamer lol, mad, I have xbox, ps4, and gaming Pc. So I dont know what your talking about.

[jnemesh]

You DO realize, right, that there is a contest running on N4G, and each post gives you an entry to that contest? Sasuke is just commenting to get more entries...AND THAT IS ALLOWED. Besides which, I have seen at least 3 INTELLIGENT posts from him in the past few days (shocking I know!). He is a member of this community, whether you like it or not! So lay off!

[JBSleek]

Not quite sure why people are expecting so much from a $400 basically low range PC.

[MegaRay]

You know what more sad? You're not the first commenter :)

[GamerWIP]

Its sad that his "first to comment" forces ppl that have constructive opinions to comment below him/her.
Tired of opening an article, and reading one lined garbage.

[incendy35]

Anyone else get the beta update last night? Loving the double tap to snap feature. And the achievements app is just awesome! Very well done MS, very well done.

As for ESRAM, it is a cache. A very fast, low latency cache with its own processing "move engines". Typically you won't store everything in ESRAM, only the parts of the draw that need multiple updates on each call. Also the ESRAM is not CPU accessible which means any code that is being processed in parallel, which should be all your game code would never be in ESRAM. Only graphics things that need effects applied to them. Prime candidates would be to move immediate textures into esram for doing AA and lighting. On a 1080p frame you can only have 16mb of pixel data max so basically you could hold two whole frames in esram at a time. Not to mention that you really only need to put in the bits that needs updating on each call. In a 30fps game you would have plenty of time to create a frame move it to esram and apply AA and lighting. In a 60fps game you would need to be extremely good with your texture streaming techniques but it is still definitely within reason to do most of your PP effects using ESRAM.

[LAWSON72]

What do I double tap?

[Dudebro90]

Guide button.

[LAWSON72]

Must not have the update :(

Would be nice to have so I do not interrupt friends in a party chat lol

[imt558]

Developers use eSRAM for framebuffer. Just "google" it. :)

[dantesparda]

@incendy

Thats really nice made up nonsense.

[MeliMel]

Good read. Thanks.

[Psygnosis333]

Look how optimisation on a console work ..lounch title (early release)on PS1

https://www.youtube.com/wat...

And look how it looks at the end of its life

https://www.youtube.com/wat...

[Ravenor]

We've seen evidence of this with EVERY console release that had a lifespan of more than a year. The titles on both the Xbox One and PS4 will blow the launch titles out of the water, so all the pixel counting and talk of parallel processing just turns into noise. Bring on the games, lets see what the machines can do.

The mindset on this site makes me feel like every last one of you gave up on the PS3 early in it's life too.

[HighResHero]

http://www.psygnosis.org/ga...

[NextLevel]

The eSRAM mixed with a much weaker GPU are going to give the Xbox One problems achieving 1080p all generation. Even the Xbox One exclusive games have serious issues with it.

Sunset Overdrive- 900p
Ryse- 900p
Dead Rising 3- 720p
Killer Instinct- 720p

Just a few examples and Sunset Overdrive which isn't super visually impressive, is 900p and currently has some pretty big frame drops (which could be fixed) and that's after the 10% and all the other improvements for the Xbox One. Halo 5's trailer also mentioned 60FPS but not 1080p, so it probably isn't either and it's using "the cloud" and DX12. Says alot.

[Axios2]

and the developers are getting used to the tools

X1 native 1080p
Forza
Stryder
NFS
UFC
FIFA
Halo CA
Dying Light
Kinect Sports Rivals
NBA
TombRaider
Rayman
Wolfenstein
Murdered Soul Suspect
Child of Light
The Lego Movie Videogame
Forza Horizon
HMCC
Destiny
etc

@ Lawson, something for for you to accept

KZ multiplayer
The Order
BF4
Watchdogs

not 1080p

@Next/Maria all 1080p matters not, cross gen, multiplat, exclusive, console exclusive, all 1080p

[NextLevel]

Forza - Downgraded
Stryder - Sure
NFS - Cross gen
UFC - 900p
FIFA - Cross gen
Halo CA - Mobile port
Dying Light - Cross gen
Kinect Sports Rivals - Yep
NBA - Cross gen
TombRaider - Cross gen
Rayman - Cross gen
Wolfenstein - Cross gen
Murdered Soul Suspect - Cross gen
Child of Light - Cross gen
The Lego Movie Videogame - Cross gen
Forza Horizon - Cross gen
HMCC - Xbox
Destiny - Cross gen
Alien Isolation - Cross gen

[Ryan741]

Alien Isolation.

[LAWSON72]

Halo SA? What is CA?

ANd seriously for an argument you use a mobile game? Just accept that Xbone will not always have 1080p, and move on if you cant save the trouble and get a PS4. However if you can, just get excited for the games coming out.

[Dewitt]

Horizon is not cross-gen, it is on the 360 but they completely different engines. Also, cut scenes were the only thing not 1080p for tomb raider which is native. Finally, only you seem to care about cross-gen which makes no difference whatsoever to how the game performs on XB1.

[bouzebbal]

bro your list is fake. TR is 900p and other games are.
getting used to the tool? how do u apply this to PS4 which is delivering 1080p 99% of the time?

[SuperBlur]

so by your logic , ps4 will be pushing 1440p games if devs are just getting used to the tools

[dantesparda]

UFC isn't 1080p on the X1 its 900p

Tomb Raider drops to 900p

Wolfenstein drops to 960x1080p

And HMCC might not be 1080p on Halo 2

And Destiny just eeekk out 1080p

Not impressed, sorry.

And @Neonridr

Keep up man, haven't you heard, its drops to 22fps, fact!

Here read em and weep: http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...

[MeliMel]

@NextLevel,

What does a game running 1080p native on Xbox One have to do with Cross Gen? To you the Xbox One cant do 1080p. Which is it can it or cant it? The list speaks for itself, why the excuses.

[Dewitt]

Dante nice job making up those resolutions since 90% of that is false. 99% 1080p on PS4, riiight.

[Neonridr]

And 3 of those games were launch titles, a poor indication of a systems true power. If we had to base the 360 and PS3's power off of their launch titles, yikes!

Even the PS4 will get better over time.

I didn't know you knew the developers of Sunset Overdrive to claim that an unfinished game has serious frame drops.

[NextLevel]

Don't need to know them, I can read.

"At its worst is a drop to 22fps during a combination of all these stress points. Sunset Overdrive also employs a very light adaptive v-sync, allowing the screen to very subtly tear within the top 10 per cent of the screen. Fortunately we count only a handful of genuine torn frames during the entire single-player session - something never visibly detected during our hands-on. It's an interesting technique that can help reduce latency - in a 30fps v-sync game, the developer has 33.3ms to render a frame. If it's running slightly over budget, the next frame will render at 50ms - by flipping the framebuffer late, latency can be decreased and stutter reduced."

http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...

[Neonridr]

@NextLevel - fair enough, thanks for the link. But the game still has plenty of time to iron out some kinks.

[Dudebro90]

Sunset overdrive has big frame rate drops?

That's funny, I didn't know Sunset Overdrive was out. I gotta get to best buy!

[NextLevel]

"Finally, only you seem to care about cross-gen which makes no difference whatsoever to how the game performs on XB1"

Sunset Overdrive- 900p
Ryse- 900p
Dead Rising 3- 720p
Killer Instinct- 720p
Forza 5- Downgraded

Those are exclusives, so I would say cross gen makes a difference.

[turdburgler1080]

Quit being such a negative Nancy:p

[xboxftw]

Then help take out his bubbles. All he usses his bubbles is to spread negative propaganda in Xbox articles. He's so insecure he can't think about anything healthy. Seems one of the sony hardcore members. Mods must be happy to provide him with more bubbles.

[bigbic]

^

instead of coming up with a valid argument or response to him, just try to shut him up or personally attack him... right?

[kenshiro100]

xboxftw: You should be the last person to talk. You can't even disprove his points.

[marcofdeath]

@nextlevel

Infamous second son
1080P 30fps the cost.
lack of on screen NPC's, distance polygon objects pop-in.

Sunset Overdrive
900p 30fps
no lack of 80+ NPC's, no polygon pop-in.

Forza motorsports 5 was a launch game. What's your excuse for Driver Club? Eight months later and it still cannot match FMS5. PS4 fanboys like yourself have to say Forza is a downgrade. It frightens you, it shows you a future that is very uncomfortable.
The facts tell a story.
The 2-D clouds are still rendered at 60fPS.

Turn 10 rendered 2-D clouds due to it being a launch title (ran out of development time) or because the XB1 didn't have the horsepower?
Forza 5 does everything that Driver Club does and more.
Game engine update 60fps X1 yes PS4 no
Physics engine update 60fps X1 yes PS4 no
My price 2-D clouds.
Driver Club with out any weather affects still cannot hit 60fps
So Driver Club is the downgrade.

Forza Horizon 2 - "Cross gen" What?

[Neonridr]

If Red Barrels had access to the June update, it's possible that any frame drops could have been avoided period.

Oh well, still a great game and I am glad the Xbox One owners get to enjoy it now.

[mrpsychoticstalker]

OT: this is a great game. Had fun playing it

OFFTOPIC: Funny how that other Microsoft article talking about exclusives on 2014. Just disappeared. Only on n4g.

[IrishSt0ner]

Yup official news directly from MS is reported as an opinion piece, just because the truth doesn't sit well with their superiority complex. Frankly pathetic.

[xboxftw]

mods love sony or are being paid by sony. can see in the number of bubbs of these hardcore MS haters as well.

[bigbic]

^

Trolls get bubbled down, plain and simple. Are you trying to say more Xbox fans are trolls? I am not sure I understand. Oh right, the conspiracy theory argument, works every time.

[q8kik]

kinda sad :/

[Software_Lover]

Lower the resolution please

[SliceOfTruth888]

another non story from gaming bolt

[Plagasx]

"With a occasional frame drops"...

Next gen baby.

[Illusive_Man]

Gamingbolt obviously still trying to push questionable headlines.

Having said that, the Xbox One version of Outlast still managed to run at 1080p without using the SDK update.
So how did they managed to do it without using the SDK update? “It is true that the eSRAM is pretty small for 1080p, you never seemed to have enough of it,” explains Philippe Morin who is the founder of Red Barrel Games. “But since Unreal Engine 3 is a good old forward renderer, we did not need as much as some of the other games using deferred shading,” he said to GamingBolt.
Philippe also confirmed that the game runs at 1080p and 60fps on the Xbox One. However, “there might be a few frame drops occasionally.”
But is it gimped in anyway compared to the PS4 version? “No, it isn’t. Actually, because of the additional time development, we were able to fix additional bugs and do further optimization,” explains Philippe.

Read more at http://gamingbolt.com/outla...

The new XDK, addresses issues with the ESRAM. It is not too small if used as intended.

[Kayant]

"The new XDK, addresses issues with the ESRAM. It is not too small if used as intended." - Multiple devs have said this there is maths that also proves it.

The reason why it's fine for them is because it's using a forward renderer.
“But since Unreal Engine 3 is a good old forward renderer, we did not need as much as some of the other games using deferred shading,”

[marcofdeath]

Yes it was too small, this was not in their SDK.
Andrew Goossen:
"and so we fixed that on Xbox One where we have the ability to overflow from ESRAM into DDR3 so the ESRAM is fully integrated into our page tables and so you can kind of mix and match the ESRAM and the DDR memory as you go."

[akaFullMetal]

They should of had 64mb of esram, and this would of fixed their bottleneck.

[Dudebro90]

That would make the chip far too big. Esram is massive in size.

[akaFullMetal]

That's right, the xbox 1 apu is huge, so if they did want to add more, they pretty much couldn't. Yea so they just made their own bottleneck, which is funny, as the esram is suppose to fix the slower DDr3 ram problem.

[rainslacker]

It's also pretty expensive. Speed of the RAM tends to dictate it's price nowadays more than the size(MB) of it.

[OpenGL]

The Xbox One APU already has a larger die than the PS4 APU, if they doubled the ESRAM it would be MUCH larger and a lot more expensive than it already is.

[akaFullMetal]

Your right, I forgot about that, so really they were screwed, trying to fix the slower ram with this architecture.

[Highlife]

Better they had 64esram than Kinect from the start.

[rainslacker]

In theory they could have used a higher density RAM for the ESRAM. That would have kept the size about the same. However, higher density means less yield, as the chance of faulty chips increases, thus it would increase the price to manufacture, not to mention already being more expensive due to requiring higher density fabrication processes.

Disclaimer: I may be wrong as I don't follow the actual product that is ESRAM(whatever it is actually based on), but that tends to be how most chip fabrication works. I know this was an issue on some of the older CPU's that made a big deal about their cache size...Pentium era and such.

On a more positive note, MS did have an idea of how they wanted devs to program on the machine, and whatever that idea was, they determined that 32MB was enough. Generally things like this aren't just thrown in willy nilly for a marginal boost. If they wanted devs to use it for how they thought it should be done, then they would have to provide enough for it to serve it's purpose. This is supported by the fact that they made a conscious decision to make the cache only available to the GPU, and not as a general purpose cache for whatever the dev wanted.

[sinjonezp]

Actually guys, increasing the esram would require a larger die or reduce the amount of gpu cores when u look at the design. That is why MS went with 32. The esram takes up the most space on the die.

[VealParmHero]

GOES SOMETHING LIKE THIS

MS cut some corners to allow for Kinect.
ESRAM not optimal for 1080p and graphics card midnrange.
MS removes Kinect, shows great games
Devs seemingly getting better at finding ways to up XB1res.
Sites like this ignore it all to speak about resolution
Gaming media sites become a boring front for a childish war

[AnteCash]

Actually the gpu is low end.
http://i.imgur.com/RbWsWvU....

[turdburgler1080]

They both come from the same chipset. They are both entry level chipsets.

[VealParmHero]

The PS4 does not have some amazing advantage on the GPU end. I love all the disagrees too. All I am stating is that XB1 is finally starting to come into its own, and they seem to be turning it around. I am not claiming that all games are gonna be 1080, or that "the gap" is gonna close.

All I am really saying, is that of ally thing to call "news", this is not one. At this point, it is what it is, and you kinda have to admit, this conversation is becoming ridiculous.

[bigbic]

^

PS4 actually does have a pretty decent advantage with their GPU with speed and features etc... Both coming from the same chipset does not mean they are the same.

[DarkLord1003]

Why do some developers hit 1080p on xbox one and others don't?

[Dudebro90]

Tons of factors. Engine, assets, dev time, all play a role and are just a few things to consider.

[Mikey94]

So instead of taking more time to optimize and use the june sdk update and all that just to rush it out. They go and blame xbox esram lol. Ok. How about actually using the full power of the console next time. Cause if a game like destiny will run 1080p then this simple game can to. Just lazy devs these days.

[Artista]

Gamingbolt dot com has n4g by the b4lls with their constant resolution topics.

[Zizi]

Too many backlashes against Xbone is a sign that PS4 is winning this generation. :D

[xboxftw]

Right so that's why all the backlashes last gen for ps3 helped wii and 360 win last gen? Your logic amazes me.

[Zizi]

First of all, I didn't say that PS4 has won this generation, I said it was a *sign*. Please read my comment carefully.

[CervantesPR]

HAHAHAHAAAA!!! i remember making a comment yesterday about how i didnt believe it was 1080P or had some kind of dynamic resolution going on to make it run well and the disagrees on my comment were off the charts! LOL SEE PEOPLE????? it dosent even matter if they say both versions of a game run at the same resolution on both consoles lol PS4 versions will ALWAYS be better ALWAYS they will either have better framerate or better textures,better effects,AA something, but you can bet on it that it will look better and play cleaner, like wolfenstein, yes, did you know that wolfenstein was never 1080P all the time on both consoles? it had dynamic resolution and the xbox one version could drop to 960-1080P res while the PS4 would at worst drop to 1760-1080p res discovered by digital foundry, now go hit the disagree button again and deny the truth once again.

[snookiegamer]

Sub 1080p resolution I can live with, but a game must have a steady framerate, or no deal.

Which is why Xbox One (Kinectless) is joining my PS4/Wii U this September when Forza Horizon 2 releases. I hope there's a FH2/X1 bundle, because that would probably be the better deal.

If I want to do the voice commands thing, I can pick up Kinect 2 for pocket (20GBP) change, since a ton of them were traded in at my local game store around the time Phil (The Man) Spencer made the announcement.

Although PS4 will be where I game the most (Exclusives/Multi-plats), I'm not missing out on X1 exclusives, so for me 'Multi-Console' gaming is where it's at :)

[candy_mafia]

If you're totally serious we're selling ours for $300 with 4 games and the Kinect device. It's Day 1 edition. I msg the details asap.

[AnteCash]

X1 has 8192 mb of DDr3 ram at 68gb/s and 32mb of esram at "theoretical" 208 GB/s or something.
Now do you see the difference between the amount of memory of DDR3 and the esram.

32mb Esram is only 0.4% of total memory of the x1 .

Get real people.
http://i.imgur.com/J9AhvDZ....

[mixolydian_id]

Nah man, it's the role it plays in the equation.

It's like having an 8 legged octopus as your dealer in a casino. It serves a specific role and does everything faster then everyone else at the table.
The octopus has to be trained to use every limb individually from game to game.
It could be dealing cards in poker... those cards are small but hugely important in the long run.
He's gotta get cards to the right guys at the right time, otherwise they'll complain to his supervisor dropping the frame rate or worse.

It's not so bad considering the octopus is potentially the best dealer in the room... lets just hope he was trained by a genius.

[kurenaishinigami]

Oh people...

Difference between 720P and 1080P is nowhere as huge as from 480P to 720P when we look at leap in resolution for each generation, for example 720P has 4 times the pixels compared to 480P while 1080P has just 2 times the pixels as 720P so it is not a generational leap like we had from 5th to 6th and from 6th to 7th generation.

Most people have 1080P TV's, they do not have 1440P TV's to have same dreadful picture like 480P had on 720P TV.

32MB of eSRAM is currently small as developers aren't very familiar with eSRAM of Xbox One, you need to get timings right to harvest/use the bandwidth and it all depends on complexity of the game.

Game developers only need to optimize their engine for Xbox One's eSRAM and reduce amount of unneeded code and that's it. Xbox One's bandwidth of eSRAM is comparable to high end GPU's so it has enough for 1080P native, it just depends on efficiency of game engines and complexity of the game.

It does not mean Xbox One is weak, it is what it is. Nobody complained about PlayStation 2 when Gamecube and Xbox came out with far more games rendered at 480P compared to majority of PlayStation 2's library being 240-320P.

[r2oB]

Not to burst your bubble, but 720p does not have 4 times the pixels as 480p. It has 3 times the pixels if the signal is 4:3 and even less if it's 16:9. You fail at math.

Also, PS2's library being 240p-320p? Are you serious right now? I would ask you to provide the source for your information but I have a feeling it's your ass, which is also where your brain must be. Sorry if I'm coming off rude, but your post is just full of fail.

[The_devils_chum]

If resolution doesn't matter why does every multiplat outsell xb1 by x2 x3? Besides the message i get from the article is that outlast will be 900p because they need the frame rate, yet another trade off because of esram.
DX12 wont get them at 1080p 60fps lets get real here. The dev is trying to break it to you softly.

[Kiwi66]

maybe its time you had your eyes checked so that you can actually see what is written the game is 1080p/60fps already so try and actually understand what is being said instead

[Your_avg_gam3r]

If xbox cant even run 1080p why does t have a 4k port? I really dont understand that

[Silly gameAr]

Does gaming bolt report actual gaming news, or just crap about specs and resolution?

[Sm00thNinja]

I think the biggest shame is the fact that today's gamer isn't even a gamer anymore. We're so worried about resolution were not talking about all the great titles coming down the road

[mixolydian_id]

Esram puts MS in a weird situation.
At present it's a supposedly negative... but to consider that in the future when development costs spiral, better dev kits, minor hardware limitations and better developers will surely make developing for the bone that little bit more attractive.

[HacSawJimThugin]

It's so sad that the greater majority of gaming news is about res gate. Gaming journalists are a joke. Instead of asking about future titles, game play mechanics, etc. We get 1080p clickbait. Sad...

OT-I don't care. My XB1 displays games fine. I don't care about benchmarks, it's an entertainment system. It does its job perfectly and that is all that matters to me.

[AutoCad]

Its funny resolution has become a big thing this gen..
I didnt see no article or big enough uproar over this when the PS3 was putting out sub 720p multiplatform games with constant frame rate issues ..

How bout they focus on the quality of the games being put out instead of technical bs only fanboys care about.

ill keep enjoying my games at whatever resolution its on.

[madjedi]

Clearly you never paid attention to lens of truth or heard of digital foundry face off last gen, because the ps3 got ridiculed constantly last gen for having inferior ports.

Resolution didn't just get big this gen, it was here last gen as well, nice revisionist history btw.

Quality is a subjective opinion based on the user, that technical bullshit you call it is on the other hand hard facts.

Many xbox fans sure cared about it last gen, when they had the advantage, funny how now alot of them claim to born again gamers only interested in playing games and not being fanboys.

Like sony fans aren't enjoying last gen games despite the resolution lacking vs current gen.

"ill keep enjoying my games at whatever resolution its on." Right exactly like most everyone else that is a gamer, and this makes you special how exactly?

[Tedakin]

Yeah but there weren't front page stories on yahoo and IGN every time a game didn't have parity last gen. It was just fanboys. This gen actual media sites are plastering it everywhere.

[user7402931]

lol

[Father__Merrin]

I predict xbox1 to struggle all gen

[Tedakin]

You must be psychic.....

[Tedakin]

I beat it on Xbone. The only time I noticed it not being locked at 60fps was in the cafeteria with all the fire. The rest of the time it was flawless for me.

I do wish/hope some companies can use the new SDK to update old games. The Titanfall people claimed they were going to do it. Would be nice if Ryse could get to 1080, and the Outlast folks could go back and update as well. I know it's a lot of work probably, but worth it I believe.

[feraldrgn]

Always going to be a trade off.

[Father__Merrin]

~Right thats it!!! ive changed my mind on purchasing Xbox now

/sc

[Mkai28]

That was actually suppose to be good news. Achieving 1080p @60fps( with some frame drops) is pretty good, and without that new SDK Update. It shows that there is a little head room and not what other ppl claim.

Problem is it seems to take a lot of time/resources to work around the 32MBs , this Is probably how they achieved this. Xbox partner development lead Frank Savage: “ESRAM is dedicated RAM, it’s 32 megabytes, it sits right next to the GPU, in fact it’s on the other side of the GPU from the buses that talk to the rest of the system, so the GPU is the only thing that can see this memory.
And what it does is that it gives you very very high bandwidth output, and read capability from the GPU as well. This is useful because in a lot of cases, especially when we have as large content as we have today and five gigabytes that could potentially be touched to render something, anything that we can move to memory that has a bandwidth that’s on the order of 2 to 10 x faster than the regular system memory is gonna be a huge win.

So this is where you put things that you gonna read a lot like a shadow map, put things that you draw to a lot, like your back buffer… We have resource creation settings that allow you to put things into there, and don’t have to all reside in the ESRAM, there can be pieces of it that can reside in regular memory as well. So for example if I’m a racing game, and I know that the top third of my screen is usually sky and that sky doesn’t get touched very much, great, let’s leave that in regular memory, but with the fast memory down here we’re gonna draw the cars. This works practically for any D3D resource there is, buffers, textures of any flavors… There’s no CPU access here, because the CPU can’t see it, and it’s gotta get through the GPU to get to it, and we didn’t enable that.

So the last thing you have to do to get it all composited up is to get it copied over to main memory. That copy over to main memory is really fast, and it doesn’t use any CPU or GPU time either, because we have DMA engines that actually do that for you in the console. This is how you get to 1080p, this is how you run at 60 frames per second… period, if you’re bottlenecked by graphics.”

I'm sure most devs will be taking this route, well first party devs anyway.

http://wccftech.com/microso...

[XXIII]

I personally prefer:

1) great animation
2) great lighting
3) high and steady frame rate

And finally HD resolution!

Really who cares if the game is 720p or 900p which is still HD! In the end all games get up-scaled to 1080p! Do you really want shitty looking graphics and even sacrificed game-play elements simply to have a higher resolution? I wish every game was required to be 60fps at min 720P native vs trying to hit 1080p60fps all the freaking damn time.

Finally for all those console gamers so stuck up on resolution why dont you just purchase a BEAST PC and 4K monitor! throw your x1s and ps4s out the window!

[filchron]

forquey is meh. id rather have glasses free 1080p 3D or VR with 1080p for each eye

[filchron]

it'd suck if xbone couldnt even handle 1080p for gtav. what would be the point?

[busytoad]

So if you have kinect attached it run's at 720p but without it its gonna run at 1080p?? Microsoft take your head out of your a$$ and quit lieing. Omfg this is why i gave up on microshyt after the red rings of death.

[u got owned]

Huh?

[Goku781]

Xbox One, the most criticized console, not critically acclaimed. Nintendo just comes out with its own games. You dont hear it was to hard to do anything with Nintendo, they just make their own good games. Microsoft should try that.

[lfc_4eva]

eSRam isn't too small.

I'll tell what is too small though.
A 10 inch pizza after a good session on a Friday night. It's got to be at least a 12 inch, or else the nights a total failure.

[MonkeyOne]

It's funny how much chatter and emphasis there is on resolution and almost no talk of how capable the PS4 and Xbone at anti-aliasing and anistrophic filtering

It's like as long as a game hits the 1080p marketing requirement people think they are getting the highest quality graphics there are.

Load up a game like Tomb Raider or Metro on a PC and go into the graphics options.

There's boat loads of settings that affect visuals.

If you want full control over game visuals go PC

And yes console gamers you can still use your 360 or Playstation controller and you can easily hook your gaming PC up to your 73 inch living room TV.

[Azzanation]

Improved effects > Resolution