How Should We Perceive Value From Video Games?

Khurram writes about the recent controversy surrounding MGS V: Ground Zeroes, and what it could mean for games.

[rodiabloalmeida]

How about not charging/paying 30 bucks for a demo to begin with? I hope to not see this happening again with other games. It would be very frustrating.

[randomass171]

I agree completely. I'm sure the experience is really good, but for $30 it better be holding me over for a lot longer than an hour or two. I've played $5 - $10 games that are longer than that.

[Stallion]

Every single person who buys it is directly telling game companies, "Yes, it is okay to do this." Unless you're a raging devoted MGS fan, fuck you, we need to show them that this isn't okay.

[ARESWARLORD]

such a rip off

[Benjammin25]

Depends on what your definition of a rip off is. For instance, I payed nearly 20 euro for gone home, which I hated and finished in 2 hours. I had no problem with this really.

[Grave]

15 hours so far for $30 is not bad at all. I'm at 15% completion so quite a bit of work left.

[DonDon]

Ok buddy, I don't think that running around doing nothing and falling asleep at the controller would exactly count as being 15 legitimate hours spent ACTUALLY playing the game. It's just a demo. Seriously.

[trenso1]

Ok i'm not complaining about the price since i got it for $20 and love the game, but you are only 15% with 15 hours? You're doing something wrong man, I have less time than that and have done 41% and S ranked 3 missions all without alerting or killing except for the mission where you are in a chopper for the most part.

[MIDGETonSTILTS17]

What settings are you using? Normal/Hard? Markers? Reflex Mode? In other words, did you achieve all of this while still using the game's "training wheels?"

[Grave]

I've only completed the 1st mission with an A rating so far and that was on normal. Mostly testing game mechanics and weapons. I'll get serious after I finish the side missions.

[trenso1]

All on normal only did deja vu on hard never used reflex mode once. And only used marking for the AA mission and the finding targets mission. Everything else I didn't use marking .

[TheOneWhoIsTornApart]

Im with you Grave. I have put in plenty of hours into the game even though people seem to think it's just a "two hour glorified demo" which it is clearly not. The gameplay,animations,graphics and lighting are all amazing and are of the highest quality and that is enough to justify its price. 30 dollars is not a rip off for this quality game. Screw the whiners and all the other brats who think they are entitled to more. Skyrim was easily a 300 hour game and The Last of Us was about 15 to 20 hours but does that mean that Skyrim is better quality or a better deal? I think not.

[SolidDuck]

That's great that u guys are enjoying the game, I'm sure I would to I love mgs. But by buying this and defending it your saying your ok if developers starting splitting up tiny sections of there game and selling it for $20 to $40 dollars. Konami themselves has said that the real game will be 200 times bigger and also said it was like a tutorial for phantom pain. And it is a 2 hour demo, just cause your playing it over and over again doesn't make it a longer game. I could replay the last of us for example 70 times and put 750 hours into it. That doesn't make the last of us a 750 hour game. I love mgs and will be buying phantom pain for sure, but I'm not going to put up with them charging for a tutorial and neither should anyone else.

[MIDGETonSTILTS17]

It's not just any tutorial though. It is a tutorial for an incredibly difficult game. A game so difficult, that a game mechanic like "reflex mode" doesn't make it easy one bit; just manageable.

We all have a year so that we can master this game, become as skilled as Snake himself; to tune our skills to the point where we can play the game on Hard, with no hud, markers, reflex mode, or even action icons.

You may think this is crazy, but I would disagree for one simple reason: the game is so finely tuned that after playing with action icons on for a few hours, as well as exploring endlessly with every possible action and button press, I feel comfortable enough to play with out them end still never press the wrong button. It is very possible with this game. And, boy will I tell ya, a game this visually pristine looks even better without those pesky action icons breaking the 4th wall.

[MIDGETonSTILTS17]

In my honest opinion, you really only are starting to play this game when you are playing at least on Hard, with no markers or reflex mode; and ideally without action icons (With extensive experimentation and practice, it is very possible. You just need to learn the rules.).

Yes, it takes a few hours of practice to feel comfortable playing with these settings (it took me at least 7-8 hours to turn off the action icons, and it was well worth it) but that is the point: just like Hideo Kojima said, this is a tutorial for the full game (which will have a TON of content!). We all have until 2015 to tune our skills to be as sharp as Snake's.

And, btw, why is nobody talking about the custom soundtrack feature? I have yet to read a review that even mentions it, and it happens to be, along with quick dive, my favorite edition to the series! I would not be able to play this game on hard and with all of the aides turned off; the game would just be too stressful! I love being able to listen to Led Zep after a streak of some intense sneaking. I just lay in the shadows, throw on the some nice calm tunes, and decompress my nerves as I scout out my next route.

In MGS4 we could listen to SNAKE's favorite tunes to lower his stress METER; but now, in MGSV, we can listen to OUR ACTUAL favorite music to lower OUR ACTUAL stress. The inclusion of a natural stress-relief mechanic within a game as potentially stressful as this one was downright brilliant of Hideo Kojima; and my nerves would thank him for it!

[Grave]

^ This guy gets it.

[Stallion]

You can play any game for 15 hours. Hey, you could play Hannah Montana: The Video Game for 200 hours. Replay-ability is separate from game length.

[CrossingEden]

You do realize that the arbitrary completion percentage is deceptive right? It's there to deceive players into thinking that there's way more content in the game then there actually is.

[B1uBurneR]

We as gamers should be making a bigger fuss about this like the old xbox one policy. There should be some ground rules on whats worth $60 value. So that devs don't get cocky and think. Just cause their name is on a game.. that gamers will run and buy.

[SpiralTear]

So instead of just not buying the game you want "ground rules"? That's a terrible idea and one that limits creative control. Yeah, let's make some quota of game time just because of this. Let's put more regulations on game development. Let's force multiplayer into games that don't have or need it. Let's expand single-player with meaningless filler. Let's push budgets more and make more development houses close.

Seriously, if Ground Zeroes is too short for the price to you, don't buy it, but I don't think there should be some industry standard to limit developers even more than they already are. There's barely enough innovation as it is, so let's not make it any worse, okay?

[TheWow]

Because a short game that costs £35 constitutes to being an "innovation"?
I do see your point in trying to not limit developers, and I really think " ground rules" are pretty poor.
The only way to effectively deal with this is to not buy the game, at least until it gets cheaper.
We, as consumers, can't bend over and take crap like this.
However, to MGS fans, you may be cool with a game this short, so feel free to buy it.

[SpiralTear]

@TheWow

Trust me, I understand what you're saying, and don't worry, I'm of the camp who believes Ground Zeroes isn't worth its current asking price, even though it's a great game in terms of quality. And really, it's not so much "innovation" as it is that I don't want developers to have to pad their game just to meet a "length quota" if you will.

It's bad enough that games are getting meaningless multiplayer like in Tomb Raider, so I think having "ground rules" would just lead to the industry becoming even more stagnant.

[giovonni]

not to be captain obvious, but it's all about content, and to be totally honest, it does;t offer enough content to warrant 30 bucks. I don't care how rich the graphics are at most this game should be 19.99 I said five bucks in another thread but I was wrong. I can play this game for five hours, but what advancements have i made from the main story? The epic cut scene wasn't even playable!!!!!
there wasn't even an epic boss battle when I rescued who I needed to.
Phantom Pain is going to be Epic, this game was a small nice snack sold at a ridiculous price at a high end store, because of it's name. To be honest, this should have been a digital only download. man this game feels like a female that gives you foreplay, but leaves you long, hard, fat... with nothing to stick it into

[urwifeminder]

Defend this game still, just terrible choke on all future releases then.

[TheWow]

Personally, I'm worried about that subscription model.

[Remy_S]

Only way I'll buy this is if it hits $15 in a digital sale, I don't want a demo taking up shelf space.