No hardware scaler - Sony's ultimate mistake?

Xbox 360 has a scaler chip and Playstation 3 just doesn't.

Who cares? You should, cause without one the Xbox wouldn't be doing 1080 anything. Her name is Ana, and I'll explain why she is so important.

[Shadow Flare]

I'd say power and disc space to allow games to be native 1080p are better then upscaling anyday. I think the above 2 things were Microsoft's mistake

[GutZ31]

I have to agree with your opinion, as Microsofts scaler is a great way to smooth out a picture, that is what it only does.

Its basically a filter that halves pixels, or divides them into an arrangement more pleasing to the eyes, or simpler put "less jaggys".

On one hand, it was a great idea, and even Nintendo 64 had this feature, but it doesn't really mean you can completely control its focus.

PS3 has left it to the developer to figure out how they want to do there own shading. This was pretty stupid.

As Sony didn't make proper tools available to take advantage of any type of shaders,and just said "heres the code/cell frame work, chop chop!"
And thats basically, all you got, unless you were a first party developer, then you had to be insomniac.

Insomniac have been the main developers behind PS3 awareness basically, making people realize its not impossible to develop on it, and in fact makes you a better coder if working on the PS3.

The fact is that hardware is there to be utilized, Developers are there to push the limits of the hardware, even if the hardware providers don't know what its really even capable of.

The Xbox 360 is showing what microsoft most likely never thought was possible on there system with games like Gears of War 2, but that also leaves the question "what can the PS3 really do?".

Developers seem to JUST be getting useto it, so what can it do?
Is it nearly as powerful as 60% of the developer community say it is?
Or is it all just pay offs like HD DVD vs Blu-ray?

We wont know at least till next year, when we have a new line up to look at, and see if there is something to surpass Gears 2, Killzone 2, and any other graphic power house you can think up to fall in this category.

[Silellak]

The difference is that the PS3's hardware scaler has to be invoked by the designers of the game. If the designers don't use the scaler in each individual game, then the scaling won't happen.

The 360's scaler is automatic, and EVERY 360 game supports it. That's the key. Basically, a lot of PS3 games revert down to 480p on TVs that only do 1080i, which is a bit of a black eye for the console touted as the big HD thing.

Anyway, this article could've just as easily been written a year and a half ago. Nothing new added to the conversation. I was really hoping for a technical analysis, but instead I got really, really old news from someone who apparently had their head in the sand for the last year.

@1.5 Below:

The problem is that older CRT HDTV's can't properly scale from 720p to 1080i. So if the hardware can't handle it for the TV, the TV has to display it at 480p.

Pretty much every other piece of HD hardware besides the PS3, including HD cable boxes, will upscale, though.

[Tempist]

Has anyone noticed a game's tendency to go to 480 instead of 1080? I would think that at the minimum it could pull of 720 and let the tv resize / scale it to 1080.

I think something is a miss in this article. I personally have a monitor with 1080p, but since it has an HDMI port, I've never had to check composite. That probably is another factor. Not to mention you can force a 1080 output via unchecking he 720 and 480 options in the PS3s system video settings.

[Statix]

No scaler in the PS3 really sucks for me, as well as a couple of my friends. We live in the US, and we use 1080i-only HDTVs that we bought a couple years ago. Very discouraging to find that Sony has left us out in the cold by not supporting a simple a feature as scaling (every single High-def device you can buy right now supports scaling). I guess they really, really wanted to cut costs.

So basically, now we're forced to play in 480p (or even 480i in some games), which really stinks. We have no problems with our 1080i HDTVs, they work great with everything else; it's just that the PS3 is the eccentric device for us that's the odd one out here.

The other major disadvantage of not having a scaler like the XB360 is that the PS3 can't do VGA output. That means you can't connect to the PS3 to your computer monitors, or connect to the VGA input of some plasmas and LCD HDTVs. This is a pretty big detriment compared to the XB360 to some people.

[Dannagar]

@Shadow Flare

You are incorrect in your assessment that disc space give a better resolution for games. In the case of Blu-Ray movies or FMV, the disc space on a Blu-Ray makes for a better resolution but for a game it doesn't. For each game, in order to have upscaling, you have to do upscaling through software. Meaning that each developer has to take the extra time and money to write software that will allow their game to be upscaled. I'd imagine that in the case of DVDs movies on Playstation 3, Sony has one program that upscales all movies.

[Shadow Flare]

Yeah, but i didn't say the ps3 used bluray for upscaling did i? I think you may have read my comment wrong, i know upscaling is a software thing. I said bluray is beneficial for ps3 games that are natively 1080p and don't need upscaling.

Consider, HD uses far more data then SD. The more HD, or better the resolution HD a game is, the more data it will take up. And bluray can hold far more data then dvd, which is why ps3 has native 1080p games and 360 has to upscale everything. Thats why it's Microsoft's mistake for using a non-hd format, for a hd console. Using dvd's was a dumb idea

[MikeGdaGod]

i have a newer 42inch hdtv and everything looks great with my ps3. too bad everyone can't say the same.

[Dan Houser]

Very true

[Capt CHAOS]

Lack of a scaler so <HD games scale better.
And lack of power to deliver HD res (GTA4, COD4 ring bells?)

@Dannager .. can you point me to some 1080p games on the PS3? And I'm not talking about the types of games with a static background and a few sprites either.

[Dan Houser]

No games on Xbox 360 will ever run at 1080p.

[LastDance]

funny cap chaos.... You see theres this thing called looking past your nose.

[juuken]

Agreed.
You have a point there Shadow Flare. This article is yet another attempt to undermine/bash the PS3's capabilities when it comes to graphics.

[illizit]

Uhm, no upscaling? Last time I checked ALL my games run on 1080p.
When I un check 720p from the settings all the games get upscaled to 1080p.

[Real Gambler]

Not sure why this article is coming back every now and then... It's a known fact that the first gen HDTV were 480p and 1080i only. Sure it does suck if you bought one, and that's the only one you have. But you could not buy one anymore today, unless you buy it used!!!! If you find a shop that still sell those old tvs, run away!!!

So why bringing this back again??? Any HDTV today will do 720p very fine, thank you. And if you have enough dough and got a full HDTV, then lucky for you, you can then do 1080p as well.

Statix: TV with VGA ports are not exactly common as well... And think about it, I would rather have another HDMI port instead. Even better, I would prefer a Component or DVI port instead of VGA... Sure it's nice to be able to plug a PC into your tv, but you can always use HDMI anyway for that since most graphic card today have this ouput as well). But sure enough, this VGA port on your TV cannot be used by any other devices. But a component port will be more useful for any of your other gadgets, or game consoles... And as far as the PS3 not having a VGA port, who cares? People don't buy a PS3 to use it on a 17 inch monitor! And any big monitor today come with a hdmi port!!! Guess what, PS3 all have hdmi as well... Yep, no problems again.

See you next year, when this article will surely come back again.

[BattleAxe]

When you use your component cables "as god intended" you are not getting a true HD signal. True HD is a digital signal so a hardware scaler means nothing.

[jaysquared]

Interesting point.. But can you name me the PS3 games that are 1080p native?

[power of Green]

VIRTUA TENNIS & NBA Street Homecourt on the Xbox 360 runs at 1080p native.

I see the Sony fans reaching to offset the pounding the PS3 has been getting. What difference does any of this crap make?, when PS3 has shown it can't perform on par with the 360 time after time, disc space you say?.

[dan-boy]

so obviously the increased disc space allowed rockstar to make their game run at a higher res than the 360 version?? and free radical to make their ps3 exclusive game at what 576p? i wonder what they used all that extra space for?

i thought virtua tennis ran native at 1080p?

[Dannagar]

@romemac7
BioShock looks better than Uncharted but that all comes down to opinion, right?

@Dan Houser
As for Xbox 360 games that run at 1080p native, I only know of three, Street Home Court Xbox, Sega Super Star Tennis and Virtual Tennis 3, plus a bunch of Xbox Live arcade titles like Boogie Bunnies

[romemac7]

that people would agree with you that bio-shock looks better that UNCHARTED is funny, that was a pitiful comparison as best. UNCHARTED looks a million time better then bio-shock and we both know. even GAMETRAILERS, GAMEIMFORMER,and IGN said UNCHARTED is the best looks game so far on any system not bio-shock. ur a true fanboy to try and say that and u know it.

[BulletToothtony]

and i know that i might get some disagrees but when i play a game in 1080p by disabling 720p such as uncharted or cod4 i only see about an 3% or so of better visuals.. and that is in a 52" 1080p samsung.. so imo it's not that important, but i definitely wouldn't mind if all games got upscaled... i mean 3 -5% better is still an improvement right

but it does suck for the people with older tvs that only have 1080i..

sony should definitely add it.. being that it can upscale ps2 games i don't know what's the problem

[Statix]

PS2 games probably use one of the SPUs for software scaling. With PS3 games, you can't use one of the SPUs without slowing down the framerate. Also, people talk about the PS3 having a hardware scaler (based on the article by Beyond3D), but it's pretty much known by now that it's broken (it only scales pixels horizontally). Developers need to do special resolution tricks to implement the broken hardware scaler on a game-by-game basis.

There seems to be a large number of (primarily American) PS3 gamers who are affected by this 1080i issue of the PS3, judging by this rather large thread: http://boardsus.playstation... But there's no way for me to really tell how much of a problem it really is just based on some anecdotal self-reporting. Still, Sony should have never omitted as simple a thing as a scaling chip, because EVERYTHING else scales, and it hurts people in more ways than one.

[qwertyuiopasdfghjkl]

I do not recommend unchecking 720p from the PS3 display settings. Games do not magically look better after you uncheck that box. It simply changes the output resolution to an even higher one set by the developers. Rockstar made GTA's output 720p for a reason, when you force games like that to output in 1080p, your putting more stress on the RSX, dropping framerates here and there. Adjust your HDTV's settings if you think it looks worse running 720p.

[Leathersoup]

Seeing as PS3 games are looking just as good as Xbox 360 games I'd say it wasn't a big deal.

[P4KY B]

If sonys hype is to believed.

[Shadow Flare]

There's a Killzone 2 article on the homepage. Look at it

[P4KY B]

There is also one about Haze.
Look at the hype that was getting.

[Shadow Flare]

There is an article about Haze. But you was talking about the ps3's graphics and how it should be looking better then 360's. So read the Killzone 2 article

[P4KY B]

Thats my point.

Haze's graphics looked good in all the previews but now the reviews are out and there is lots of talk about bad textures, pop up and screen tearing. Oh and SD resolutions, 576 is SD in the UK.

So don't count your chickens with KZ2

[Shadow Flare]

Point taken but you'd be a fool to think that the same thing will happen to Killzone 2, just because it happened to Haze.

Consider, Free Radical is a third party developer. The people who generally make the best quality games are first party and in some occasions second party developers. Guerilla is a first party developer. And on top of that, Sony has especially been working close with Guerilla to get things right this time, and a huge budget has been bestowed on Killzone 2.

Also, while you never know what the future holds, everyone who has played Killzone 2 has had nothing but praise for it. 'Best looking console game', 'textures are great', 'lighting is amazing', 'animation is incredible'. The game is in its own league and that cannot be denied

But all in all, what my original point was, is that Killzone 2 defies your 3.1 comment. Because yes, ps3 games should look better, and ps3 games DO look better.

[themyk]

uncharted anyone.
nuff said.

[LastDance]

guys im not sure what previews you guys saw...but the haze graphics looked mundane to me from the start....

[dan-boy]

coz it does look amazing. but, that could well be the best and most optimized engine to be made for this gen of consoles. thats the only thing that seperates the two.

killzone has been in development since when? late 05? early 06? when it hits, it could well represent nearly 4 years of dev time! plus it's without doubt gonna be one of the most expensive productions this gen also. nothing on the 360 has had the investment plouged into it, and no game engine has yet been made to match killzones!

the way it is, there's really nothing that proves the 360 couldn't handle killzone! only that nothing has been made to killzones high standard.

[poos3]

as i said another ps3 game that runs at 560p rez what a joke .

[redmamoth]

thats a bigger joke!!!

[Dan Houser]

Upscale is not true HD.

[Pain]

Learn to program.

looks at God of war 2 on PS2.....need any more proof?

[SiLeNt KNighT]

i have a 1080p HDTV and when i turn my television on "Unscaled" as the resolution, the ps3 ALWAYS up scales the image as requested by me in the video settings. im almost positive the GPU in BOTH consoles is where the up scaling comes from. theres something wrong with this article indeed.

[Saint Sony]

Sorry could not resist, but at least I wrote it this side.

[Mu5afir]

The Ps3 can display 1080p natively, that is why it doesn't require a UPSCALER. Lazy development can't be justified by a device that can upscale the image. In fact, the ANA chip should be considered a FLAW if anything, it simply means the Xbox 360 can't do certain things "natively" so it needs to fake it.

Oh, and keep in mind the Ps3 can if needed easily upscale images to 1080p. The Cell upscales DVDs / Ps2 and Ps3 games to higher resolutions.

If you disagree explain why, or don't click that link. Thanks. :D

[Silellak]

The 360 can display 1080p natively, too. Both consoles can. It's just up to the developer to write the game that way. So far, the performance hit has been too great on BOTH systems, so most big games don't do it.

The number of NATIVE 1080p titles for both consoles is actually pretty small, but both DO have them.

As someone who bought a 360 instead of a PS3 because my HDTV at the time was an old projection TV that only did 1080i, I find it sort of hard to view the hardware scaler in the 360 as a "mistake". That "mistake" is why Sony lost my business this generation. I was pretty annoyed when I read that the company touting their console as the "true HD" console wouldn't even display most games IN HD on my HDTV.

Now that I have a new TV, I'll probably get a PS3 in the long-run. In fact, I am now, in an ironic twist, upset at MICROSOFT because my older 360 doesn't have HDMI, which was a dumb move on THEIR part. But it's doubtful I ever would've bought a 360 in the first place if it didn't have the hardware scaler chip.

[Ri0tSquad]

You just can't win.

[qwertyuiopasdfghjkl]

The RSX upscales and outputs video. It is the GPU ya know...

[RAM MAGNUMS]

I just got to my ps3 and click on display settings and click on the appropriate resolution. It takes like 5 seconds to finsish & I like being in control!

[butterfinger]

could we get anymore petty? I want an article that says, "I like black, so PS3 is better because it's black!" from ___ blogger. So we have a blog written by an XBOX360 fanboy that doesn't own a PS3 about why he will not get a PS3 with the reason being something that doesn't affect alot of people looking to buy a PS3. Wonderful.

[Gothdom]

he also mentions how crappy his 50 inch TV is.

[qwertyuiopasdfghjkl]

Not to mention he doesn't know what he's talking about. The PS3 upscales very nicely, you just have to mess with the settings.

[DiabloRising]

Upscaler is nice, definitely, but this article is littered with usual flame bait fanboy drivel. Move along.

[AbdullaMTR]

native 1080p mean sharp, High details, high Quilty picture Ps3 has the best of this ur playing a next gen games.

the PS3 capability's Can achieve native 1080p 120z With its cell power and even can upscale all games to 1080p if uncheck all res except 1080p.

[Silellak]

Please stop repeating marketing hype. Both the 360 and the PS3 can uspcale to 1080p. Upscaling to 1080p isn't exciting.

Native 1080p games are, but those are few and far between. And there are NO 120 Hz 1080p games. In fact, a console's power or lack thereof has nothing to do with "120 Hz". That's entirely up to the TV.

Maybe you mean 120 FPS, in which case I laugh and ask you to point me to any PS3 game that runs at 120 FPS.

The PS3 is a powerhouse, no doubt. But it is not some magical box that runs everything at native 1080p at 120 FPS. Don't buy into the hype machine.

[athlon770]

The 360 can not do native 1080p. The 1080p option was included 3 firmware updates ago through upscalling. Sorry. Furthermore, the 360's 1080p res has trouble displaying on some 1080p HDTV's through the included componenet cable. The best res the 360 can do nativly is 1080i. With the HDMI connection included on newer 360's the display issue has been resolved, but it is still not native, it is upscalled 1080i to 1080p.

The PS3 does have a hardware scaller. End of story. But like has been said earlier, it only operates as a horizontal scaller not as a vertical scaller. The 360 obviously does both.

Capt Chaos, there are many PS3 games that run native 1080p at both 30 and 60fps. Do your own legwork and look it up, your a big boy, the info is out there. I personally know of 5 (to give you a small hint, here are 2 to get you started...Wipeout HD = 1080p @ 60fps, and Super Stardust HD = 1080p @ 30fps)

120fps games are worthless without an hdtv that has a refresh rate of 120Hz. Those, of course, are ver far and few between. I think I have only heard of 2 or 3 models that hit that. So please stop trying to throw that out as a negative against the PS3. Sony never promises that EVERY game would be 1080p @ 120fps! They stated that the PS3 is capable of 1080p @ 120fps! And as long as one game comes out during the lifespan of the PS3 that hits that mark, then they didn't lie, you guys however that continuisly throw that out are!

[qwertyuiopasdfghjkl]

Both the 360 and PS3 can output tons of games at 1080p/120fps. Just not the games we except nowadays. The original Max Payne for example could easily run at 1080p/120fps, but new games are built specifically to render High Resolution Textures, HDR lighting and other visual candy at 720p/30fps or even in some cases, sub-HD resolutions like 600p.

Its all about "Wowing" the common person, and last time I checked, the common person notices visually effects more than resolution and frame rate.

-SS

[ericnellie]

Everyones known of Ana for a while now and I haven't heard a single developer mention this as a disadvantage in developing games for PS3. We all know the systems are different in their own way but, to say it's the "Ultimate Mistake" is sort of.....fanboyish IMO. Either way, I truly like both systems for their own reasons =)

[Bordel_1900]

It was a great move by MS to include a hardware upscaler, without it they'd be in trouble.

For the PS3 it should be powerful enough to display native or upscale with the Cell. If not Sony oversold the PS3's capabilities.

[TheIneffableBob]

Ars covered this topic better.
http://arstechnica.com/arti...

[truncheon]

good link, thx.

[crillyconlig]

...this guy should buy a new tv

[Silellak]

Or maybe, just maybe, an HD console should support an HDTV with HD games.

An older 1080i CRT HDTV may be old, but it's STILL HD and thus should still be able to play any game IN HD.

There is no excuse when the 360 can play games in HD on that TV and the PS3 can't. Sony did a lot of things right this generation, but with this decision they screwed up.

The PS3 is still expensive enough without telling someone "Well just buy a new TV too!"

[athlon770]

I agree with ya there whole-heartdly. I never understood why if your tv could not display a perticular res that the PS3 would drop all the way down to 640, however, it is my understanding that they fixed that issue with one of the firmware updates. Am I mistaken?

[dawgtown]

I you go to a PS3's video settings you can tell it what to run all games at. You just uncheck all resolutions except 1080p and then it will upscale all games (even Haze with a meazly 570p) all the way to glorious 1080p.

[yanikins111]

you cant disable 576P. So games will revert to that setting. I think. Not a prolem for me, but i know that you cant disable 576. Just tried. Atleast is still ED. Still better than SD :D

[m9105826]

Upscaling != more pixels...

[TheIneffableBob]

Technically, upscaling does equal more pixels.

[m9105826]

cmon... don't be that guy... if you really wanna get technical, it only equals as many pixels as you have on your screen.

[WIIIS1]

The cell is the ultimate mistake imo.

[nycredude]

Buying a Wii is the ultimate mistake imo!

[DJ]

-

[m9105826]

Yes... still-untapped parallel processing with room for limitless expandability in future iterations is a horrible idea, i agree. Unless you've programmed for the cell, please don't talk about it.

[ban fans]

That's all. This type of thing has been going on since the two systems were introduced. This system has chip A but this system doesn't. But we have chip B and that one doesn't. The writer obviously tried to dig up something he thought he could gouge Sony's machine about; very pro-Microsoft, even stating that he wouldn't buy a PS3 based on Sony not including this type of chip and stating that when Ubisoft wants to make money with Haze, they will port over to 360 (pretty lame shot there if you ask me). If you sit back and crunch numbers, it may come out on paper that resolution makes a big difference. But if the human eye can't see a significant distinction, who cares?

Bottom line, PS3 does some things better due to its chip set and Xbox360 does other things better due to its chip set. To dismantle the two machines piece by piece and side with one because of a single chip is just stupid and illogical. I'm not defending Sony here, I'm simply questioning the logic used in the article. The proof is in the games and games' appearance and playability. So far multiplatform games look far too similar to declare a "winner" and exclusives look great on their respective consoles. I expect this type of article pre-release of the next gen systems, not this late in the game where your point is easily discredited by just looking at the games.

[DiabloRising]

Well said.

[juuken]

You have a good point there.

[qwertyuiopasdfghjkl]

But the PS3 components and chipset clearly win out, due to their ability of staying cool under intense gaming pressure.

-SS

[nycredude]

Doesn't the playstation 3 output at a max native 1080P? Doesn't it also upscale to a max 1080P resolution? Plus these days the receivers and TVs all upscales the signals so WTF!! Touting an old tech in the xbox? BS! This is another desperate attempt to make the PS3 look like the inferior tech when everyone, except ms dedicated followers, knows the truth is the exact oppposite!

Tip: Do your research first!

[Lord Vader]

What they are referring to is if you have an older HDTV that only does 1080i (not 1080p mind you), the PS3 will DOWNSCALE the resolution to either 720p, or in some cases 480p, dependant on the Tv. This is a known issue since the PS3's launch.

All that being said, it is a pretty stupid article, this is last year's news at best. But, for ppl who do have these old HDTV's, it is a relevant issue. However, anyone buying a new HDTV today, this doesn't matter because the TV's are equipt with better scalers now.

[Quisp]

I have an older HDTV that only supports 1080i. I have both consoles, so if a game comes out that is 720p, Im forced to go with the 360 version, because of it.
I bought my PS3 before I did the 360. One big reason I bought the 360, is because Sony kept putting out games at 720p, when they claimed 1080i/p would be the norm, PRIOR to the consoles release.

So I was screwed.

For a company that claims they planned on taking a bath on the hardware, and making it up on the software, it seemed a little short-sighted to release a majority of their games at 720p. :/

[thirstycamel]

... but I thought Sony adressed this with a firmware update, early last year. And, this Ars technica article that is being refered to, is almost 1 and a half years old, and most certainly outdated. I have personally used my PS3 on a five year old sony projection, and a 5-6 year old sony CRT XBR, and have not had a problem scaling my PS3 to those sets. But, for the most part it is usually connected to my 50"
1080p samsung DLP set in my bedroom. The only issue is, it will not automatically scale to the set, you have to manually do that through display settings.

[WIIIS1]

Looks like its nycredude who needs to do some research, or even just think, before spilling crap out of his mouth.

[InMyOpinion]

2006 - "1080p is where it's at bitc*es!"

2007 - "720p is fine by me!"

2008 - "Who cares about resolutions anyways...?"

[THE TERMINATOR]

RROD

[pwnsause]

-1080p isnt needed (oops looks like it is for that Flashy full HDTV of yours)
-we dont need hdmi (right...)
-who needs a HD disc drive (not even gonna touch on that one)
-we dont need a HDD (Ultimate Mistake?)
-we dont need wifi, my router is in the living room(100ft cable needed)
-our console runs fine!(ROFL)

[Dan Houser]

GT5 Prologue runs at 1080p. What runs faster than 720p on Xbox 360?

[InMyOpinion]

Well...

Virtua Tennis 3 and NBA Street: Homecourt both run in native 1080p on the Xbox 360, to name two. There are lots of titles that upscale to 1080p as well, but I guess those are'nt interesting?

Does anyone care if a game is 1080p or 720p anymore? Nope.

[Dan Houser]

Real HD, not lame upscale

[juuken]

"WE DON'T NEED BLU-RAY! WE R CONFIDENT THAT HD-DVD WILL PWN ALL!"-Microsoft

*Blu-ray wins over HD-DVD*

"WE STILL DON'T NEED IT!"-Microsoft

Good God, shut-up. You must be the fairy godmother of the xbabies or something.

[LenHart]

PS3 has not only games which run at 1080p but it has 1080p native games at 60 fps eg NGS,RR7,WARDEVIL ,GT5P

However no game on x360 even runs at 1080p native so question of 60 fps doesnt even arise

there are 26 other native 1080p native games on ps3 vs 0 on x360

[mikeslemonade]

Microsoft said we don't need motion control and here comes motion control later this year.

[n00bPwner]

"- 360 Xbot logic
-1080p isnt needed (oops looks like it is for that Flashy full HDTV of yours)
-we dont need hdmi (right...)
-who needs a HD disc drive (not even gonna touch on that one)
-we dont need a HDD (Ultimate Mistake?)
-we dont need wifi, my router is in the living room(100ft cable needed)
-our console runs fine!(ROFL)"

--------------

God damn, you're stupid. The difference for 360 is, with each change, it got better; with PS3, each change was just another let down.

Don't be dumb.

[pwnsause]

oh look, its n00bpwer, really, well right now im watchig my PrOn in native 1080p, not to mention playing GT in native 1080p at 60fps connected to hdmi 1.3, i get uncompressed theater sound from my games because of hdmi 1.3, dont be dumb, rofl and the ps3 also changes also and takes 20 steps over the 360 every year rofl.

[Deadman64]

Sad you have to watch p0rn! I have a life...which entails a girl! And I see her in real life...the highest resolution available.

[pwnsause]

what do you want me to do, she dumped me! rofl

[aiphanes]

The Cell can do graphics and help the RSX...there is software scalling.

if your TV is so old that it will not do 720p...then you need to get a new TV. 1080p HDTVs are now around $1000. If you are a serious gammer...you will have a 1080p tv and a 7.1 surround sound receiver that will do uncompressed 7.1 audio through HDMI...which the Xbox 360 can no even remotely do...

The PS3 is all current and future tech..
7.1 uncompressed sound.
Bluray
1080p native in the hardware
HDMI 1.3a
bluetooth 2.0
Wifi 802.11 b\g
2.5 inch standard SATA harddrive in all SKUs

The Xbox 360 is really old tech...

[WIIIS1]

The cell is what's causing games to crap on PS3.

[jtucker78]

I don't own a 360 but have played them often enough to know they are definitely not old tech.

I happen to be a PS3 owner - and am very happy with my choice - but both the PS3 and 360 are excellent machines and both have points that are better than the other.

As a gamer choosing between a PS3 and a 360 isn't an easy choice.

[urban bohemian]

but getting the following does not make me one, in fact if i did get the following i wouldn't be able to eat. Not everyone is as rich as you buddy.

'if you are a serious gammer...you will have a 1080p tv and a 7.1 surround sound receiver that will do uncompressed 7.1 audio through HDMI'

[AbdullaMTR]

WIIIS1 Ps3 CELL Faster and Smarter then ur JUNK Brain man.

[Varsarus]

If a native resolution on a game is 720p, and you deselect it on the display setting, and leave 1080i/p ticked w.e, it will run at 576p, upscale to 1080i/p, but it may look sharper or stretched, but graphics will be the same as it would if you just left 576p ticked, at least that what it does on my TV.

Try it out for yourself, and like this articles says, the PS3 hasn't got a hardware scaler, so games like GTA IV or Dark Sector can only be software scaled from, for example, 640p to 720p, and software scaling just takes up system resources...so why would the developers do that?, if Rockstar or Dark Sector developers didn't do any software scaling, then GTA IV, Dark Sector will be 720p..., and this goes out to any game that is not 480i/p, 576i/p, 720i/p, 1080i/p native.

[felidae]

eehm. the ps3 has a hardware scaler .. or am i wrong?

this guy should do some research.

[clevernickname]

Apparently the PS3 DOES have a hardware scaler, but only in the horizontal plane. Some games take advantage of this and render 960 x 1080 and have the scaler upscale the image to 1920 x 1080.

It's possible that the PS3 hardware is also capable of vertical scaling, but the current system software does not support it.

[Cynical-Gamerzus]

Simple as this!! PS3 is HD, 360 is low def!!!

Scaler is BS,that scaler is BF'ng S*it!!
That scaler is cheap ,scalers dont make up for more RAM or Detail.
Scaling is BS it doesn't add more detail it adds blur but but thats not gonna improve our vision or sense of depth and detail in an environment does it!!!!!!!

TRUTH is that 10MB-EDRAM on the 360 cant do 720p with effects such as HDR etc. theres no room for 720p.

The PS3 has Cell CPU which can very well do it ,if you think in parallel.This involve a new paradigm shift equaling rebuilding library and tools and technology and re-organization of code!!!!

The problem is developers still think PC backwards as they do with the 360; it is a Budget level PC.
Time to move on to parralelism and let SPU's and multi cores take a shot..

[Cynical-Gamerzus]

I meant Cell and RSX together can do it!
In time we will see friends

[InMyOpinion]

How come the 360 could output GTA IV in 720p and the PS3 could not?

How come Haze isn't even 720p? I mean it's a PS3 exclusive and all.

Again, you talk and talk and talk, but there is no proof to back it up.

[Zool 08]

Try GT5 prolouge native 1080p

[gamer-zeus]

How come you ask??? YOU Microsoftnuthugger Jenzo!

Because Parallelism is a new Paradigm for these weak lazy Developers who cant cope with it! and games like GTA4 and Haze,COD4 were cross platform games originally,that were made with last gen PC dev- technology that never ports over well to PS3 parallel architecture!!!
They need to go back to school or get help and learn CELL/RSX and thats why the graphics look low def,mediocre and last Gen.

The Cell Processor the design of it along with the RSX takes work! equaling longevity and more potential, unlike your precious 360 that maxed out the day Gears came out!!(guess what i can play Gears on my PC with much higher better level of graphics on a 8800gt!!!(feeling like you got a hand me down PC game hahahaha lol you did...DO you understand this terminology?

In the hands of Insomiac games and "Sony Funded Developers" The PS3's secrets are shared and exploited and Guess what True 720p to near 1080P are achieved!
The dev community needs to be open .. But many are still stuck in last gen and So developing with you BUDGET PC XBOX360 in mind! and
all its doing is postponing the inevitable.
Take a good look at GT5 and Resistance2 Killzone 2 Motorstorm 2 and all the 2nd gen PS3 games you'll see why Parallelism is the future.
PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Go check that 360 it might have a RROD when you get back to it..

[juuken]

Once again, Jenzo talks from his ass!

[LenHart]

did u mean halo3 at 640P?

Output 1080p . x360 cant do that. It can only upscale games to that rez

However 31 ps3 games run at 1080p native. 4 games ngs/rr7/wardevil /gt5p run at 1080p at 60 fps

something that is impossible on x360

BTW Wipeout HD will run at 1080p at 60 fps too

[Deadman64]

All of you bash him for topics Jenzo DIDNT bring up, proving your fanboys. Explain why GTA:IV on 360 runs at a higher resolution.

[Ju]

Funny article, because, well, Ana doesn't do the scaling. Its a simple video processor chip (converting signals, nothing else).

http://forum.beyond3d.com/s...

[Ju]

Well, according to this PS3 article, upscaling 576p wouldn't even be possible (at least not in HW). So, I guess either they found a way to use the RSX or the Cell to scale.

BTW: Using the PS3 HW scaler gives you a higher then 720p resolution, effectively. This e.g. applies to Uncharted or R&C (well, with the later using a slightly lower res with a cinema scope effect - 8 blank lines above and beyond).

[AngryXbot]

No Blu Ray player - 360s ultimate and not so only mistake?
No HDD - 360s ultimate and not so only mistake?
No HDMI - 360s ultimate and not so only mistake?
Limited backwards comp - 360s ultimate and not so only mistake?
No Wifi - 360s ultimate and not so only mistake?
No cooling system - 360s ultimate, not so only and fatal mistake?

Owned

[mesh1]

no matter how much the droids cry and bicker about the ps3 it comes down to the ps3 version of gta 4( the most technically demading game this gen) runs at 640p resolution while the 360 version of gta 4 runs at 720p rezzz and this id after almost 2years after the ps3 was released so can some 1 tell why why gta on the ps3 s subhd but the 360 is reu hd haha go play haze guys 4/10 game

[Bladestar]

"The Ps3 can display 1080p natively, that is why it doesn't require a UPSCALER".... uhhh.. yeah.. that was the idea... but... why aren't all games on the PS3 being made at 1080P? That way... no UPSCALER would be needed.... How come Haze is not 1080P... how come many Sony exclusive games arent 1080P... ahhhh... I get it... everything would be perfect if developers would be doing their games on 1080P... but they are not... so, since they are not for wherever reason... the chip would be a nice thing to have... It's obvious that 1080P natively consumes too much resources... otherwise why even Sony owned studios making the game on non-1080P resolution?

I find it funny the fact that unlike Sony promised and their fans believed that 1080P games aren't the default... the PS3 cannot do upscaling better than the xbox 360... and now they want to make it seem as having an upscaler chip is a bad thing... when Hey! most PS3 games arent 1080P nor you got the chip...

[DJ]

And thus requires twice the amount of processing resources and time on the GPU, and hardware rendering has its limits. The RSX and Xenos GPUs are relatively similar, but the RSX has a lot more memory bandwidth allocated to it, which is why we see so many native 1080p games on the PS3 in comparison to just 3 on the 360.

But dedicating that much GPU time to simply doubling the resolution has a drawback; you have less time and resources allocated to the rendering of each pixel. For most developers, it's simply not worth the cost.

"Why should I do 1080p to make my game look fairly good after a lot of hard work when I could do 720p and make it look great right off the bat?"

[truncheon]

you're not doing it right.

[callahan09]

"Contrary to the above statements, I am not to be considered a “graphics-whore” or a pixel counter, but this scaler business has scared me enough to keep from buying Sony’s product - (Wii60 ftw)."

What the hell? Who cares about this garbage.

First of all, he claims he's not a "graphics-whore" at the same time as he says he won't buy a PS3 because of the graphics capabilities? So I'm guessing he's not a gamer, either, because any gamer worth his salt would recognize that there is a ton of high quality gaming to be done on all the systems, and that alienating yourself from one over a trivial reason like "no graphics upscaler" is absolutely foolish (and hypocritical given his statement about not being a "graphics-whore").

The games I play on my PS3 look amazing. I still don't think I've played any games on my 360 that impress me as much as Uncharted. Perhaps Gears of War 2 when it's out, but then shortly after that I'll play Killzone 2 on my PS3 and we'll just keep seeing it: there are beautiful games on both systems.

And you know the PS3 is capable of running games natively in 1080P, like WipeOut HD coming soon and Street Fighter II Turbo HD Remix coming later in the year.

[SpenserTracy]

This article is proof that xbots are less educated and has got less brains than PS3 owners. It's so obvious that buying a PS3 was the best choice I ever made.

[jones smokey]

i dont see the poin of this article, ......at the end of the day killzone 2 gameplay looks like cgi!!!, i dont have a hd t.v but my t.v is wide screen and it looks good never the less, i played cod4 in my friends huse that got a hd t.v and to be honest the only difference i noticed is that it sounded better, i personlly think that all this hd t.v stuff is a way to get extra cash out of us gamers, ..yes i know hd is better sd t.v but at the end of the day i have still not seen a notcibale different between the 2.

[DJ]

I'm surprised that Microsoft didn't implement HDMI from the get go, and even more surprised that they chose Unified Memory Architecture (which is only seen in low-end PCs and laptops as a cost-saving measure). They really could've shown the true potential of their innovative GPU technology.

The PS3 does have a hardware scaler, but it only scales horizontally. It also has software scaling capabilities, courtesy of Cell.

[Bladestar]

HDMI? for what? for 720P games? Last time I checked the only benefit for HDMI so far is let wires... I have having a hard time beliving that HDMI was as needed as Sony made it out to be... First before Sony can convince people that HDMI is needed... they need to convince people that 1080P is needed... how do they do that? by not allowing any non-1080P on their console... why because not even games made by Sony studios are 1080P.... I've seen games that not only play better at 720P but are better games than many 1080P games...

All Pro Football 2K7
Blast Factor
Calling All Cars
College Hoops 2K7
The Darkness
Fantastic Four Rise of the Silver Surfer
flOw
Full Auto 2 Battlines
Harry Potter
High Stakes on the Vegas Strip: Poker Edition
LocoRoco Cocoreccho!
Marvel Ultimate Alliance
Mesmerize™: Distort (Playstation Eye)
MLB The Show
NBA ‘07
NBA 2K7
Ninja Gaiden
Pirates of the Carribean
PixelJunk™ Monsters
PixelJunk™ Racers
Piyotama
Street Home Court
Super Stardust HD
Transformers The Movie
Tekken 5: Dark Resurrection
Virtua Tennis 3

from that list tell me how many AAA titles?

Best PS3 games:
Warhawk
Resistance
Grand Theft Auto IV
Assassin's Creed

and the list go on.. and gues what? how many are 1080P? so, HDMI only good for 1080 and less wires... So, if not even SOny studios are using 1080P... why should people have HDMI?

By the way I have an elite which comes with HDMI... which I am not using... why? VGA baby...

not to mention that not everyone has a 1080P TV.. and since the content being released... you know blu-ray running dry... since people arent buying the movies... developers arent making their games at 1080P... sorry.. but I got better things to do with my money than to spend thousands to make the jump from 720p/1080i to 1080P for a few games that suck... and for movies that are too expensive to buy... yeah maybe next gen... but microsoft made the right choice by not making HDMI a big deal like Sony did.

[PirateThom]

Weren't Blu-ray movie sales up 300% over last year?

[LastDance]

im not sure bladestar why....but everytime i read your comments its as if you were screaming them..

[DJ]

That's pretty dumb. VGA isn't even as good as Composite, which itself is below HDMI in terms of quality.

[edhe]

..you meant component.
VGA's been carrying beyond HD res's for well over a decade...

[yanikins111]

There are other options that HDMI allows. I think 7.1 surround sound, different streaming techniques for that sound, and better contrast ratios are some of them. Go away.

[bym051d]

IIRC, Beyond3D has confirmed that the scaling functionality of the 360 is located in the GPU and not in ANA.

[PirateThom]

The fanboys are getting desperate. I'm not buying a PS3 because it has no hardware scaler, I'm not buying a Wii because its solder isn't neatly finished, I'm not buying the 360 because it's lights are green and red.

What the hell is this crap?

[fenderputty]

drawing so much heat and attention. It's a year and a half old problem. It was originally noticed because 1080i only TV's couldn't play native 720p games in HD.

It was a mistake, but it's not their undoing.

Talk about bringing up old dead sh1t. This is like digging up the horses grave to beat it a couple more times.

[LastDance]

thats one rough analagy man.

[athlon770]

So true...so true!

[fenderputty]

I expect an article to soon follow showing how much more power the PS3 consumes then the 360. That article will be followed up by several EA madden comparison threads. To which the Sony camp will follow with more RROD stories. To which someone will bring up lack of 360 HDMI and hard drive. Which will then be followed by a THE CELL IS THE SUXORS and devs can't work with the thing thread.

Point being ... this article serves no purpose then to bring up old sh1t that's already been talked about in hopes of getting hits and getting fanboys riled up.

[tordavis]

Complete fanboy rubbish. How does this stuff get approved? The scaler stuff was discussed ages ago.

Sigh...

[Marty8370]

360 ANA/HABA chips are nothing more than a video decoder chip. Scaling on the 360 is done by Xenos CPU.

First of all, if anyone is truly wondering if the PS3 has a built in hardware scaler, you need to look no further than the Toshiba Super Companion chip. This chip is an audio and video processing powerhouse and if you look at the Toshiba presentation of the SCC chip (page 13), you'll see a diagram that clearly shows 2 scalers located within the SCC. The hardware scaler functionality is built into the SCC.
www.hotchips.org/archives/hc1 7/2_Mon/HC17.S1/HC17.S1T3.pdf&q uot;> http://www.hotchips.org/arc...

[clevernickname]

I was going to post the very same information. Until recently I was also under the impression that ANA/HANA was responsible for image scaling, but I ran across an ARS Technica article that cleared up this misconception. Microsoft appears to be perfectly fine with perpetuating this myth, even though it is not true.

As for the PS3, we've known for a long time that the PS3 contained some form of scaling hardware, but access to that hardware is restricted by the system software for whatever reason.

[AuToFiRE]

an upscaler does NOT make the picture better, when you compress pictures and video you lose quality that you CANNOT get back, the ps3 does not need an upscaler because its native resolution is 1080p, the game content is what determines the resolution. yeah dvd players with upscalers can get it to whatever resolution but its still the same standard definition as the video on the dvd

[AuToFiRE]

who disagrees with that? its true, you cannot get quality that was DELETED during the compression process

[djroberts]

For the money saved, I'll take the blu-ray drive, wireless and rechargable controllers over the ana chip. One SPU can be dedicated to do the same job, it's just not standardized. They added it to several games with ease, e.g. Uncharted.

[Egzekutor]

This news is soo useless.. You dumbass PS3 has an upscaler already built in , there is no need for Ana ?? Wtf are you retarded or just a stupid fanboy ?

[THC CELL]

will say that when war devil is out

[dale1]

1.8 firmware rings a bell anyone,access to upscaling was done way back then duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhh
ps3 has had a upscaler from the get go but that is the easy way out,theres much more to the ps3 upscaler than ana

[Mr_Luke]

I'd say Wipeout HD, 1080p. The only thing i care about isn't the missing chip, it's the release date of this game. Yahoooo

[yanikins111]

Fuk'n'A brother

[DOOMZ]

which means games that are 720p native can only be shown in 720p or 480p; there is no scaling up to 1080p or 1080i. This causes people with older HDTVs to have issues with the available resolutions, and keeps them from playing the games in anything but 480p. It's a vexing problem for a system that's supposed to be HD, and this issue is one of the most challenging that Sony faces. I ask the Microsoft guys how important it was for them to include a scaler in the 360.

[Marty8370]

Fool, try reading my other post(15). Click on the link. Page 13 of that PDF, it clearly states that the 'Toshiba Super Companion Chip' has hardware scaling. BTW the 'Toshiba Super Companion Chip' is present in all PS3's. The SCC is a Audio & Video powerhouse.

Try doing research before posting crap.

Mr Blings - That problem was fixed with a Firmware V1.8 update I believe.

[Mr Blings]

there is great debate on this issue. If there is indeed a scaler SONY has blocked it for some reason and has not even given devs full use of this mystery chip. Not trying to rip on you or anything. There is some very interesting reading on this topic. It is an issue that has made many ps3 owners not able to use the full ability of the machine they spent much money on. go to the general forums on the offical playstation forums and look for a thread that has 384 pages and close to 4000 posts of ps3 users with this problem and make the same statement on that thread.. the thread is titled "we want 1080 support for all ps3 games past and present reborn." start at the first page where their is alot of interesting reading material.

Marty: No it has not been fixed. I have had the problem until i recently purchased a new tv. trust me, it hasnt been fixed. Devs are adding more support which is good though. burnout shipped w/out 1080 support anf after enough posts by people on their forums they added the function in a title update. like I said, check out that thread. interesting stuff!

[juuken]

This article is made of pure and utter fail.
That is all.

[Delive]

Problem solved for me. HDMI included. PS3 is HDMI connected, 360 is RGB connected since it doesn't have HDMI. Both are launch consoles.

[Ju]

1080p @ $600...what and where ? Curious, looking, looking for something like that since a while now.

[LinuxGuru]

A 1080p TV at 32 inches?

Unless you have that overly expensive sharp aquos, then you don't have a 1080p 32" TV.

[Variable]

Sony has them too
http://www.unbeatable.co.uk...

[Delive]

Got it at Walmart. Said it was 720p in the display, but got it home, it runs at 1080p. VW32L HDTV20A. I hooked the PS3 up and expected 720p goodness, it self configured to 1080p greatness. 360 recognized the 1080p too.

Trying to attach pics.

No BS Guru.

[Delive]

I could not get them in here, so this link has them posted.

http://www.angelfire.com/me...

It shows my 360 at 1080p, my ps3 at 1080p and my ps3 reverting back to 720p for rock band since it won't do 1080p and the PS3 won't upscale it.

I was in disbelief when I saw it, but checked a few posts and others also mentioned the 1080p as well on this model.

I don't know what else to say, if you don't believe me, sorry.

[boJABER]

this is just some fanboys crap

[Mr Blings]

this is a very true article. I had this issue at first as well. It was the reason i waited so long to pick up a ps3. When i finally did pick up a ps3 it was used for blu-ray movies only because most of the games I wanted to play could not scale to 1080. I have a very nice panasonic hd tv and was an early adopter to HD. my tv displayed the same res. as the author. I have since bought an 1080p tv. I luckily no longer have this issue. I made a point to NOT EVEN CONSIDER A SONY TV in the process however due to this issue and SONY's sweeping the issue under the rug. The ps3 will upscale blu-ray movies to 1080 fine without any issues, ps1 games, ps2 games as well. Not ps3 games unless the devs add it in. dev teams are slowly starting to add the support but it is not mandatory. go to the offical playstation forums and look for a thread titled "we want 1080 support for ps3 games past and present" and you will find at time of this post a thread which is 384 pages long and has 3,833 posts of playstation 3 owners who have issues do to the lack of playstation 3 inability to scale the correct way. the playstation 3 is an add on to ones tv, not the other way around. 720p and 1080i are the two main standards of HD. People have their own opinions as to which is better. That is all fine and good. SONY should have atleast given their customers the option while using their device. All other HD devices such as cable boxes are able to scale correctly to the owners native res of their tv. And lets remember that SONY are the ones who claim that "HDNA...HD is in our DNA" and that they ARE the "Only True HD Console."

[StupidTeenagersMust-]

TVs that only support one or the other fall out of that standard (which was only the early ones) are the TV manufacturer's fault, not Sony's or Microsoft's. But essentially all titles now run at 720p and 1080i (720p is better) so it's not a big deal.

[Mr Blings]

most all games run in both formats...atleast not on sonys box. dev has to add the support. unless you have had the issue first hand you have no idea....stop acting like you do. nothing worse then a game coming out you want to play in all its hd glory and having your ps3 downscale you to 480p. all you who disagree would probably do as SONY want you to and go out and purchase a brand new SONY 1080p tv because Sony tells you that your tv is not current enough(many tv's with this issue are sony models as well.) Companies like SONY need early adopters to get their next big thing off the ground. I bought my 1080i tv before 720p was even around. Take off your fanboy goggles

[Stinkey]

This article was a bunch of BS coming from someone who doesn't even own a PS3 and doesn't know that you can change the display settings manually. Publishing this article "ULTIMATE MISTAKE".

[heyheyhey]

submitted by Bleem->360<- from ->XBOX<-wire

ok then.....

and lol at "ultimate" mistake

i agree with juuken, this article fails so much that saying it's an epic fail disgraces the term epic fail

[TheMART]

Yes, that sounds like a major problem. A lot of people in USA have such TV's big screens that do 480p and 1080i.

So with a PS3 they're facked. They are looking at 480p next gen HD graphics, which basically takes the owner back to last gen consoles PS2.

"Sony decided to keep a scaler chip similar to Ana out of the Playstation 3 hardware to keep manufacturing costs low. What this means is that any resolution scaling will be made via your TV - where applicable. Not a big deal for most, cause most TVs take the almost standard 720p game and output it in - you guessed it - 720p. What most without said resolution will discover, is that the PS3 will “round down” to find an acceptable resolution for output. So, in a nutshell, if a Playstation were plugged into my bigscreen I’d be looking at 480p, like, ALOT."

That's just the way it is. A hardware scaler is a basic nescessarity. Sony got it wrong there.

[Marty8370]

Fool, try reading my other post(16). Click on the link. Page 13 of that PDF, it clearly states that the 'Toshiba Super Companion Chip' has hardware scaling. BTW the 'Toshiba Super Companion Chip' is present in all PS3's. The SCC is a Audio & Video powerhouse.

Mart - Try doing research before posting crap.

[juuken]

You have no idea what you're talking about, do you?

[Expy]

Big a cheap TVs. If it can't do 720p it's time to upgrade from that old trash.

[Gamingshouldbefun]

just report this story, its utter bullshit, some fanboy with no brains of his own wrote it

[THC CELL]

people will go mad for the RTE 1080 engine soon its up and running

wont shock me if some company is coming close to getting a 120fps engine running soon end of 2009 will see

[Ri0tSquad]

Sony could release an update that upscales all PS3 games to 1080i/1080p like the 360 did with an update? Or like they did with the PS1/2 games.

[StupidTeenagersMust-]

I guess they just need to adjust the firmware or whatever. I wish they could have an anti-aliasing feature for the PS1/PS2 games.

[Ri0tSquad]

Smoothing is as good as the picture will get. As far as I know you can't add AA to a game that didn't have any to begin with. I'm sure Sony would of did it when they added the upscaler.

[rafael05]

If you have a decent hdtv it does upscaling anyway so i dont really see the point having an upscaler in the console. What is the point as a lot of people have stated in this thread is if the source material is 1080p or not..

[Gitaroo]

If you upscale a 720p to 1080p on 360, you will loose the sharpness of the image technically it looks worse than the original. Especially sub 720p such as halo 3 and COD4 are best to play in 720p because that is the closet to their native resolution. And the PS3 does have a hardware scaler support to horizonal scaling. Sony just leave it to the developers to decide if they want to support it or not. Sony should have made it mandatory.

[techie]

This article is wrong :)

[_Q_]

What will we ever do? I just gotta have a scaler lil billy I just gotta. I'm so scared.

[Expy]

Buy a new TV and stop crying. 480p/1080i television?, you don't deserve high-definition.

[LinuxGuru]

Excuse me, the PS3 DOES have a hardware scaler.

This article is pure flamebait and BS.

Reported story and user.

[xg-ei8ht]

Killzone is 720p native and using x2-4aa. with 8af.

Uncharted is 720p with aa.

Heavenly sword is 720p with aa and hdr.

[ELite_Ghost]

it looks the same upscaled or not...

[JasonPC360PS3Wii]

There have been alot of "slap yourself in the head" moments for hardware this gen. This is just one of Sony's, along with slow drive speed, inferior dev tools, limited ram, no rumble, sixaxis, and the Cell. The 360 on the other hand just has RROD, everything else is golden.

[TrooGamer]

Anyone suprised with this reply??

Both machines have faults.

[PirateThom]

PS3 has the same amount or RAM as the 360 (512 on the 360 vs 256 x2 on PS3) and the speed is faster, PS3 has rumble, SIXAXIS is an addition, the dev tools have improved and, finally, the low drive speed is off set by the hard drive which is faster than optical drive.

Meanwhile, the 360 has RRoD, no standard hard drive, crappy optical drives that scratch disc, expensive propriatary add ons (like wireless, a standard in DS, PSP, PS3 and Wii), no rechargable controller.

[AngryTypingGuy]

People don't want to admit that both consoles do things right that the other does not. This is something that the 360 does right that PS3 does not. Just like the fact that it's easier to program for, and it has better RAM.

The PS3 has BluRay, is built for longevity and has built in WiFi and HDD. They can both learn from one another for future generations.

[Kleptic]

good post...except the PS3 has the better ram specifically (the XDR server class is significantly faster)...its the chunk of EDram in the 360 that devs are still using for lower res games that help...it is useless for any higher res samples, which is why you see it make less of difference as devs pushing for higher resolutions and framerates...

and don't start the unified ram argument again...no idea who started that...every gaming PC has dedicated ram for the processor...and dedicated ram for the GPU...and thats the fastest way to do it...the PS3 can share the mega fast XDR ram with the GPU...but the Cell cannot use that GDDR3 that the RSX has...the 360 can simply do it in both directions...it doesn't make a difference...again, the best gaming PC's are not sharing memory bandwidth...the systems that share it are cheap laptops with integrated graphics chips...saying the 360 has 'better' ram because its 'unified' is ignorant on an Epic scale...

[AngryTypingGuy]

Well when you go by things that game developers have said in the past in terms using the 360's memory compared to the PS3's, there is validity to the RAM argument.

[spacetoilet]

Only on ps3. 360 upscales the camel toe. Fail.

[nismo]

Just let your EXPENSIVE HDTV do the Scaling.

[Trekster_Gamer]

Yet just another reason on a long list of why to purchase the 360.
Better hardware
Better Games
Better online Gaming
Better online marketplace
Better Price

Sony Better Err Hmmm Hmm ok ok I must admit I love the black case as a standard.....

[TrooGamer]

Better hardware???

That depends who you talk too.

[Fanboy Slaughter]

Dude, seriously, I think it's sad you think paying to get screamed at on XBL while playing your game is better, at least when I play Warhawk on my PS3, if some dipsh1t starts screaming obscenities at me, I can always say I never paid for it.

[UltramanJ]

No built in wi-fi? Old media format? Hardriveless bundles? Piss poor hardware quality? No internet access? Letting key developers slip away? Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

[AuToFiRE]

and not only that to add all those thigns would make the 360 cost more than the 80 gig ps3

[pow3r of t3h c3ll]

John Terrys ultimate mistake!!!!

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOTTT!!!

Manchester United just became champions of Europe!!!

Screw the news on this site, this piece of news is the only news that matters rite now!!!

[joevfx]

why didnt they guy who posted and wrote this do some research, it was prooven a year ago that the PS3 has a scaler chip.

[Swiftfox]

I think the fact that the Xbox 360 does have an upscaler and the PS3 doesn't shows what the companies had in mind when designing their respective consoles.

Someone made mention that the first HD tv's were 480/1080i only. Microsoft probably saw this and designed there console to cope with the telivisions that were currently out.

Sony no doupt saw this as well. However, they probably saw ahead. Telivisions were being made with 720p/1080p settings and growing more and more affordable. Seeing this, they probably left it out rather than add a chip in that could quite possibly become useless in the consoles lifetime.

Sony is also probably gambling on the fact that within the PS3's lifetime (within 10 years) that HD will replace SD sets in homes as well as developers putting out 1080p native games consistantly.

[GUNS N SWORDS]

is when games hit sub HD.

like GTA4 (ps3 version), and HAZE, dark sector(ps3 version), and the darkness (ps3 version).

[_Q_]

I can't believe some a$$clown had the nerve to say the 360 has better hardware...classic...than what? The NES?

[ErcsYou]

If your so called HDTV doesn't do 720p.....you need a new HDTV.... Don't blame Sony because your entertainment system is out dated and lame...

[yanikins111]

THIS MAN HAS HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD!

I dont know if you were sarcastically having a go at sony or not, because it does kind of suck, but the fact is, If your tv is old and cant do it, you need to get a new one. One of the risks of being an early adoptor of new tech is that sometimes there are issues. Its the price you pay for being able to say to your neighbors "the football looks better on my tv". Ask anyone who purchased a standalone bluray player that now cant use profile 2.0. Ask anyone who purchased a HD DVD player. There are downfalls to buying the newest and flashiest of everything. There always have been, there always will be.

[Fanboy Slaughter]

more and more people only finding reasons to wear their hearts on their sleeves, and then cry about it when their precious sytem doesn't show up on top.

I'm beginning to think this war is getting petty and ridiculous, given that 2 years into this gen, people are STILL fidning reason to cry and moan to each other...I bet you all make pretty pathetic human beings.

[otherZinc]

I'm glad someone brought this back to the front burner.

Lets face it, the PS3 is a paper champion.

SONY will tell everyone how great the PS3 is, but they cant show us how great it is!

And, I'm talking about games!

[Fanboy Slaughter]

There are great games for the system, you're just being a short-sighted fanboy.

[DOOMZ]

Sony IS the paper champion...

[OC Shock Value]

i have a 37 inch toshiba 1080i tv in my room. Along With a 19 inch 720p LCD TV on my desk. I use my 37 inch for the 360 and my 19 inch for my PS3. I also have had the problem with about 70% of my PS3 games being shot down to standard definition. So i just use my 19 inch. Plus the 19 inch supports HDMI so thats pretty spectacular.

I DO want to upgrade but i dont want to upgrade so soon. I am waiting for some of those more fancy futuristic thinner HDTVs to come out. Plus i want to wait to see what the standards will be like once the new consoles drop. Because if i buy a new HDTV now im gonna feel like an idiot when some new HDTV comes out and ruins the current.

So thank the gaming gods that 360 runs every game at my HD setting. Saved me from having to drop loads of cash on a big screen now, just to be surpassed again once the newer ones come out.

I wonder if the new consoles will support resolutions higher then 1080p?? Because if they do.. Thats what i would like to be ready for.

[Rocko]

Also doesn't help when the gameboxes have incorrect info printed on em. Like COD 3 saying it supports 1080i when it doesn't, and Uncharted saying only 720 when it supports 1080i as well.

[OC Shock Value]

Back wen i had my PS3 hooked up 2 my 1080i TV. I did notice that Uncharted was alot clearer then i assumed it would be. I wonder why 1080i was not on the back. I almost cried when 1080i was my only HD choice, and Uncharted said 720 only.

and LOL @ COD3...

[Rocko]

Imagine my surprise when I start it up and it looks like sh*t. I check their support page and its like..."sorry folks, misprint". W T F. Theres a thread on the playstation.com forums on this topic, its got a list of 1080i supported games so you can check. I know for a fact Naughty Dog added 1080i support at the last minute after people asked for it on the dev blog.

[DevastationEve]

Game loads up. Fun begins. Startup screens and titles load up. Main screen lets you load a game save or start new. Saved data pinpoints certain variables (inventory, location, etc), then key data is read from the optical storage (or HDD, if installed to it)and the game picks up right where you left off.

As code is sorted through the game engine, the system's processors start to be programmed with the game's specific data (assets load, sounds get streamed). GPU provides the muscle for the intense graphics calculations, CPU gets the games logic AI and most of the physics work. In the case of a dual rendering setup like CellBE/RSX, CellBE can be programmed to use its SPEs in aiding several of the tasks that needn't only be handled by the RSX, a feat that validates it claim to being a radical new archicterture in gaming.

The output of the final render is actually determined by the combination of the size of the frame buffer, any screen tiling that occurs in order to make up a FINAL frame buffer, any upscaling that is done through the presssence of a scaler, and the signal that the AV-out is using. The image ON YOUR SCREEN will further be enhanced or restricted according to the modes and timings YOUR SCREEN supports. IN ENGINE, the game is rendered at whatever the developers designed it to be.

[spooky205]

there is no scaler chip in the 360. its the gpu that does the scaling thanks to the extended memory. any one want a link just request it and i will give it to you. what did you think the spring update was for? did you honestly think MS had the foresight to include a scaler chip when they didn't even include HDMI? lol. i spit on this article. the 360 upscales due to its uber powerful gpu (which is more powerful than the ps3s). the ps3 does a great job at upscaling movies and games provided you have the right tv, while the 360 has a more universal approach.

[DevastationEve]

the EDRAM was designed to be utilized for screen tiling, a technique that lets devs get by with limitations like memory constraints. so okay they could've put more than 10mb for the EDRAM, but I guess that's why 360 didn't launch at such a high price.

and then the frame buffer is sent through HANA to be upscaled. this is how it can get a game to run at 1280x720 4xMSAA and then upscale the the final render as it's being passed through to the the AV Out.

read this for some good info, about half way down you'll see a lengthy post (by Acert93) that explains QUITE A BIT!

http://www.gamersyde.com/ga...

overall, i agree with the rest of your comment. but HANA does exist.

[OC Shock Value]

Nice try my friend. but the 360 does have scaler. why must you say some malarky like that after reading the article and ALL these posts?

[Marty8370]

Fools, PS3 hardware scaler is in the Toshiba ' Super Companion' chip. BTW the 'Toshiba Super Companion Chip' is present in all PS3's. The SCC is a Audio & Video powerhouse.

Try doing research before posting crap.

[Genki]

...leave it to some dumb*ss with an editorial to try and tell us why we should care.

I'm not saying the issue doesn't exist. Fact of the matter is, Sony did something about it.

Whether or not you believe that it's satisfactory is up to you, HOWEVER, bringing it up again as if it's something that hasn't been addressed is just asinine.

I honestly wonder how some of t most foolish people out there either get jobs or manage websites. There needs to be some kind of review board to gauge people's competence before they're allowed to shovel their crap onto the WWW.

[karlostomy]

640p.

Only on playstation3.

Don't get mad. Get a 360 instead. (720p)

[eyeDEVOUR]

lol...but its cool for GayLO 3 right...

[LJWooly]

Um... no?

[Blue Legend]

It's really the Dev's who decide what resolutions the game can run in.

Sure, you can blame Sony for not putting a scaler in, or you can blame the Dev's for not supporting more resolutions.

[dragunrising]

I think quite a few people took offense. There is quite a bit of he said/she said going on and comparisons going back and forth. I don't imagine anyone will read my comment, but in the rare case that you do, what is your opinion of this 200+ comment rant? Its been established that the article is "slightly" biased and less informative than people would have liked...However, how did it become such a flame bait article? Oh wait...I know...It says "Sony's ultimate mistake?" The pitchforks and torches came out soon after. Some people honestly have very informative and intelligent things to say, but it is tiresome to scroll through all of the bad comments (which unfortunately outnumber the good ones). The take home point is that BOTH consoles have hardware scalers. The difference however is that the 360 has a vertical and horizontal scaler than is separate from the GPU (named Ana). The PS3 on the other hand uses the GPU to more or less scale the resolution vertically. Ultimately, if you have a newer tv, which is more than likely 720p by default, this article is not applicable. However, I can see how the absence of a horizontal scaler could influence the purchasing decisions of a few people. If people are curious to know what I use to game...I have a 22" Samsung monitor (saving up for the big screen). I use a DVI to HDMI converter to hook up my PS3 and a composite cable for sound (hooked up to my speakers). Additionally, my 360 and PC are hooked up to a VGA splitter so I'm able to switch between the two. I thought I was quite clever when I figured out how to get everything working together...sad I know.

[LJWooly]

I read your comment, and I agree with you, but I'd be a hypocrite to argue the same case, since I didn't really offer any insight into the matter either.

Still, a good comment, and bubbles coming your way.

[Citizen Cook]

Thats right, bow your heads you sony vermin!

HA HA HA HA!

[DevonTheDude535]

Wow this is a person who would argue upscaled DVD's are superior to Blu-ray or HD-DVD.

I personally would prefer the native resolution, are there even any 360 games that are native 1080p, I know a few PS3 games are. I have a 360, and I would not argue in favor of 1080p upscaling by a long shot.

Oh by the way the PS3 can somehow upscale PS2 games to 1080p (using HDMI, and it can upscale to 1080i on component)explain how that one works.

[Horny Melon]

has anybody else noticed we've had quite a few games come out that are standard def

[LordZ]

-No bluray or HDdvd drive, microsoft ultimate mistake?
or
-No Hard drive standard, microsoft ultimate mistake?

stop the fanboy sh*t already

[Rapture333]

Im not quit understanding this articale... You can play games in 1080 anything and the resolution does go up and the game looks great. To be perfectly honost this article sounds like it was written by someone who's never experianced even browsing throught the XMB settings before on a PS3. A matter affact the unprofesional feel of the article (wii60 FTW, HAHAH SORRY BOYS) just kind of pisses me off. The sites called 360wire.com I bet their as honost as gametrailers when it comes to comparing things!

[PoSTedUP]

alot of people hate the ps3, it was proven that the 640p made things look better than the 360 version. its just a game thought, one that i stopped playing.