GTA IV Face-off Frame-rates and FAQ

Following on from last Thursday's Grand Theft Auto IV: PS3 vs. Xbox 360 Special, author Rich Leadbetter told Eurogamer that he'd found an even more precise way of measuring average frame-rates and wanted to update you on this. He also thought it would be a good idea to answer a few of the more commonly asked questions about his methodology. The Frame Rate Tests section of the piece has now been tweaked accordingly, and here's Rich's commentary on it:

[Saint Sony]

Had a pleasure to play this gem on both system. It looked really nice on both but after playing first with 360, it was really hard to get used to PS3's more blurred look, but in the end it worked equally well.

Did not notice any tearing with 360 or PS3.

[Dareaver1]

the screen tearing is in the overscan. Which is in the area of the TV that you can't see. I have it for 360, and haven't noticed any, but that does answer why we can't see it.

I'm just happy with the game, it's awesome, and has some really good storytelling. It feels like a interactive movie at times, and then some of it is just so well grounded in reality that it makes it all feel surreal. And then there are the parts that aren't grounded in reality, but those are also very entertaining.

I just love some of the hidden messages that if you pay attention, address real concerns going in our lives today. The game is awesome, and i believe that it's helping bring to light that video-games are an art form and should be respected and taken seriously (without going overboard).

[Silellak]

Yup, it's awesome on both systems, and the last thing we need is YET ANOTHER stupid comparison article.

So many different results from different people! It's almost as if...the versions were incredibly close and the differences are not worth worrying about!

[Violater]

This clearly has nothing to do with gaming anymore.
Once upon a time you played games and had fun and never worried about the pixels and the frames.
Now everything is ZOMG!!!!111 the textures and yet ignore that the gameplay is most times broken and repetitive.

[Silellak]

Yeah, I've said the same thing myself before.

I remember when multi-console game debates were about big things like "The SNES version of Mortal Kombat has better graphics than the Genesis version but it's censored! What do I do?!"

Now we have people counting every stupid pixel in every screenshot to see if the way the light hits the texture is slightly different on Awesome System A or Awesome System B. As if our enjoyment of the game would somehow be stifled knowing that it doesn't run at Full and True HD, or that someone out there might be playing a slightly better version of the same game I'm playing and OMG that ruins the experience for me.

[Violater]

Ok there you go clearly the genesis version was better
lol

[tplarkin7]

The point of comparing consoles is important since the PS3 came out a year after the 360 and cost much more.

When the Xbox 1 came out, there was no doubt of the power compared to the PS2. Now, PS3 owners hope that their game matches the 360.

You can make all the excuses you want for PS3, but the fact remains that the 360 version runs at a higher resolution and faster framerate. It also had zero issues on Xbox Live.

[Silellak]

Why would I make excuses?

I don't even own a PS3.

I just think all 3 of the consoles of this generation are pretty swell, and that if it comes down to this sort of incredible nit-picking of graphics to try and find some little bit of difference, then as gamers we're all in pretty good shape.

[etownone]

completely agree!!

xbox 1 dominated over all multiplat games and it was always clearly evident. This should be the same for the ps3 since it was released a year later.

but, i still laugh when i think about all the sonyfans in full fanboy force the day the first review came out for GTA4. so many comments about the ps3 power and etc., etc., hahaha...

[Richdad]

Actually all data on 360 is stored in Ram first so that might be the reason of better frames since 360 is completly RAM dependent and PS3 Rockstar used HDD streaming for the purpose which made a latency.

But still not using HDD is a neagative sign but is causing profit here. You dont get virus if any, less glitch or freezing issues due to software.

[Proxy]

But you got:

A game system.
A Blu-Ray player.
And reliable hardware.

Any two of those made the purchase worth it for me, and all three are even better.

[leeger]

if this gets approve then we will again see a start of another war. GTA4 is superior blah blah higher frame rate etc etc.

[Dareaver1]

true, but i think that Eurogamer is a really good site, and i thought they deserved the right to further explain how they came to their conclusions. A lot of hardcore fans were trashing Eurogamer for their comparison, and i really do think that they do the best job out of all the sites that do these comparisons.

So I believe that their work should be acknowledged. They go through a lot to give these comparisons to us (gamers), and many gamers do find the information useful.

"Fanboys" ruin ever post on this site, that's a given. But should we stop learning about the new things going on, just to avoid them? I don't think so, that would give their voice too much power. I think the real gamers should be the ones with the voice, not "Fanboys".

[Condoleezza Rice]

Here we go...again.

I think a lot of people still don't accept IGNs 'which version is superior' verdict,and 1Ups as well.

[Silellak]

Let me just preface this statement with the fact that I'm sick and tired of all these comparison articles and I think it's silly that people care about such miniscule, trivial differences.

That being said - at least this article uses technical observations for their results, instead of just "eyeballing it" like IGN and 1UP did.

But in the end, the real answer is, why do people actually CARE about these small differences? Just use this:

[jke82]

of nintendos and segas and begining even ps1 that people really didnt give a crap about frame rates and all that garbage it was just mostly "hey check out that cool game awesome lets play it" and then all the fanboys came in and argued about it not being cool........wait that never happend....we just played em...huh glad im still doing things that way and not giveing a rats left nut that one can produce a better frame rate by 5 or 6 frames full well knowing that differences that small the HUMAN eye cant even percieve
btw love the flow chart silellak

[SUP3R]

I still happily play those NES, SNES, Genesis, pixelated PS1 and blocky N64 games. They're just as much fun now as they were over a decade ago. Graphics don't make gameplay. These sort of articles are solely meant to divide the fanatics and pit them against each other over nothing.

[Fishy Fingers]

WOW... Thought we might of had enough of these already? No?

All this childish squabbling just tarnishes GTA for me.

[PS360WII]

Well this settles everything ^.-

[niall77]

while the ps3 never jumps more then 6FPS

I dont care what you fan boys say I like a smooth frame rate of 25FPS then one jumping around losing 10 frames a sec at one point and not at another

[wicked]

360 never goes below 26, the PS3 drops to low 20s (23)

[jke82]

ill fly ya over here we will sit my tvs side by side and play the game and the first person to spot a frame rate difference in the other persons game and have them point it out wins ok.....wait you cant tell anyway the differences are so miniscule that no person can tell the difference with out specialized HIGHLY SENSITIVE equipment soooo gee i guess the differences dont mean a damn thing and i guess these comparison articles are just ways for sites to get hits because they know fanboys will flock to them in droves...........

[DARK WITNESS]

well i have both virsions and if you want i will play you on both of them.

i do agree for the most part there is no difference, but i do see a big difference in frame rate. i am wondering if its just me. i have a 60gig ps3 and from what i have heard they seem to have more issues running the game then the 40gig ps3's.

i have not noticed any frame rate issues with the 360.

people really should just enjoy the game.. then again, most people have just been building a list of whats wrong with it instead.

[jke82]

havent had any issues and i havent even dld the patch for it yet but if ya think about it people in the heat of the game half through a mission being chased by the 5-0 one tire out blazeing down the street are you really sitting there saying man look at that frame rate drop (which you cant see anyway) or are you going AHHHH CRAP DAMN CAR AHHHHHHHHHH BOOM flames (insert retry mission noise here)

[i Shank u]

the human eye sees at what, 24 FPS? going below into the 23's could be make some frame-hitches noticeable. * woopeee !*

[SL1M DADDY]

@ these stupid comparisons... Can we please stop approving them... PLEASE!

[solar]

weird. i thought the comparison horse was already beat to death. eh...::grabs bat::

[Fishy Fingers]

I lack a bat but I have a spare Amiga 500 I can use to beat the f***er down.

[Keowrath]

Zombie horse?

EDIT: well if you're gonna disagree, you could at least explain what type of horse it is.

[JasonPC360PS3Wii]

You know after the games were released it calls into question reviews and review scors of GT, 1up, and IGN. I have never trusted (((any))) review site that accepts ads from the same games and hardware they review. IMO believe it or not, I think the most honest reviews come from sites or mags that belong to a console. I read PSM (yeah I own a PS2, just don't like the PS3) OXM and gaming sites that are openly biased to a console, they give a more honest review IMO.

I prefer independent or user reviews, or I just write them myself. When I review a game, I'm not getting paid by anyone and I'm clear about which version I'm reviewing and believe it or not I don't bash in a review. Just look at GTA IV, by the reviews of the sites I mentioned above, we all assumed the PS3 version was light years better. When the games came out, the tables turned and ended up in favor of the 360. Look at Gamespot, IGN, GT, 1up, Gamepro, EGM, GameDaily, or Gamespy... they all reach a mass market and can pursuade gamers with false information.

[Superfragilistic]

I generally agree with all of you about the plethora of comparison articles, and yet of all those Eurogamer's is the only one based on a technical and scientific basis compared with the subjective eyes and videos of all the others.

In all honesty this is the only comparison out of all the ones published that's worth more than a spoon of salt! And yet it didn't affect my purchase. I bought the console version my friends were playing.

[SUP3R]

Because it burned your village to the ground a kidnapped all your women and children?

As a gamer saying you hate a system is pretty stupid and immature.
I don't hate the 360, I just don't like how Microsoft dropped Xbox support and just ignored early customer complaints about the hardware failure issues.
If the new Jasper systems are a lot more stable I don't see a reason not to get one. There's nothing I don't like about the system really, I just don't like the bully management tactics behind it sometimes. Doesn't mean Sony isn't guilty of it either because they really make some idiotic comments and claims at times.

[JasonPC360PS3Wii]

I agree I may play around and bash in the open zone because it's fun, and my comments in the gamer zone are biased, read the bottem of my profile and you will know why. But... it doesnt take much to see that there is somthing wrong here, and these sites/mags are getting caught weekly now. People expect that because I'm an Xbox fanboy that I sould love EGM, I don't think so, they lie as much as Gamepro. Game Informer sin't to bad but they still fall in that catigory. What we need is a standard, no gaming or hardware ads in gaming mags/sites. Gaming is big buisness, I'm sure Coke, Pepsi, Hollywood, Comic Book, Music, Television, or any other company that sells a product can fill that void.

[JasonPC360PS3Wii]

"Yawn,,,
So...
Xbots have nothing else to turn to when bashing the PS3 but the installation process which actually benefits the game?
How weak and pathetic can you guys get??" http://www.n4g.com/NewsCom-...

"LOL
I hope Sony launches a sort of PC vs Mac commercial
That would shut the 360 down with their GTAIV DLC ramblings." http://www.n4g.com/NewsCom-...

" Hmmm...
DMC4 @ #1 for PS3 and #3 for 360??
I know a few xbots that won't be too happy about that." http://www.n4g.com/NewsCom-...

http://www.n4g.com/NewsCom-...

Dude don't come at me, if your going to be pulling the hypocrisy train behind you. Your just not good enough, 95% of all your comments are anti MS, you even talk about MS in Wii post. Try harder next time dude, don't try and come at me with this "As a gamer saying you hate a system is pretty stupid and immature" then turn right around and go negative MS in the rest of your ramblings. Now there mabe a few on ----> side that are stupid enough to think you legit, I on the other hand archive for a living, so be more carefull what you say. :)

[Superfragilistic]

Seems like I was dreaming of a day when we just talked about games and not platforms. :(

Your advertising idea with games journalists though was thought provoking, if not unlikely. I agree that there are some alarming disparities between sites and games journalists when it comes to comparative articles. I have lost particular regard for IGN with their suspicious GTAIV exclusive and more recently GameTrailers with their GRiD debacle.

There should certainly be more disclosure about relationships and business dealings between games journalists and companies, because at the moment it feels that they are much too close for comfort and that their rights to speak freely are being curbed by commercial interests - look what happened to Jeff Gertsmann!

[SUP3R]

Open Zone
Open Zone
Open Zone
and honest truth, the lineup isn't as strong with only one outstanding title in '08 in my opinion. However if the Jasper is more reliable I'm picking one up along with all the hits of '07. Is that a problem?
Lastly I really think the Wii is dumb because it doesn't bring anything new into the new generation of gaming for me.

[JasonPC360PS3Wii]

You come at me with an attack, I turn it around on you, so now your going to cry foul, and "open zone open zone open zone"?

Please tell me you can actualy see the hypocrisy in that? I didn't come at you, you came at me, and I owned you.

I have 6 people on my ignore list, because I'm not a coward, and like to read what everyone has to say. So... you have to be pretty special to get on my ignore list, congrats you just made 7.

[SUP3R]

OMG!!
I'm on another ignore list?! NO!!! My life is OVER!

lol kids
Your ignore doesn't stop me from gaming or commenting so why should I care?
kthxbye

[solar]

n1 jason :D bubble for you my friend.

i agree a standard is lacking. and i agree that corporate money does weigh into how a game is reviewed. there is too much money to be lost by "insert_name.com" to completely trash a sponsor. sad..but true.

[Salta_nelas]

Will this end? people seem to have stop enjoying games and just like to make comparissons and complaints.

[testerg35]

Please stop posting these.. don't want to see the same cut and paste by nasim again :)

[Capt CHAOS]

..that have irritated the hell out of me over the year on N4G..

So, the PS3 delivers a LOWER frame rate on a LOWER graphics resolution?
And you say that the PS3 is a superior piece of graphics hardware??

Where are you now?

[Xiru]

Do you not understand? because of your gimp hardware, the PS3 version is toned down. If Rockstar could have made GTA4 exclusively for the PS3, it would have been way better than anything on the 360. Don't you remember that the 360 version is the lead platform? Anything ported to PS3 is usually crappier. Although, to the normal human eye, the PS3 version looks superior. Thanks for making a flame bait post though.

[wulan]

GTA4 was ported from X360 to PS3

and it looks better on PS3

I repeat it was ported frm X360 to PS3

[Mr PS3]

And take your underpants off your head you look ridiculous

You know what the PS3 is capable of
And if you need reminding you Dumb fat underpants wearing freak

Take a look at some of these title's MGS4 , Killzpwn , GT5
And then you'll realize what a current gen console is capable off !!
And then take a look at smears of war and then you'll know which console has a lot more life left in it and which one has run it's course

Comparison over !!

[zapass]

you can stick eurowanka up your fat @ss

[InMyOpinion]

"For example on one test I did on the Race Driver GRID demo, 360 ran at a constant 30fps while PS3 averaged at 28.76fps. Not so much difference there you might think, until you factor in that almost 40 percent of the 60Hz output of the PS3 version was torn frames, versus 0 percent on 360."

Can someone please explain to me how that is possible since Codemasters designed their engine in collaboration with Sony to get the most out of the PS3?

"Cheshire also shares the info that Sony knew early on that it'll be hard to get the best out of the PS3 so they had their Japan office to assemble a team in Europe to start developing new tools and technology. Cheshire adds, 'What we were able to do is exploit something that Sony was developing internally, which we were the first to see – and since then we’ve worked very closely with Sony. It’s a two-way street.'"

http://ps3.qj.net/Codemaste...

For those of you that don't know, the Ego engine is a tweaked version of the NEON engine.

[n00bPwner]

HAhahaHAHAHahhaAHHAHAh PS3 runs and looks like sh1t because of 360's GIMPED HARDWARE??? HAHAhahAHAH THERE'S NO WAY A PERSON CAN BE AS BRAINDEAD AS YOU. LMFAO.

if that were the case, why doesn't PS3rd version run and look better? don't be f*cking stupid. you're embarrassing yourself.

face it, PS3 is overhyped gutter trash, just like the rest of you fanboys.

[Gam71]

I wonder if Nasim will quote this in her usual spamming?

Not surprised the ps3 defence force are out on damage control. It sounds like this comparison used specialist tech from a professional company.

And the results...
Yet more bad news for the ps3.

You have to stop believing the hype £ony fed you before the console was released. They haven't delivered again and lied to you... again.
Just accept it's not going to be as good as promised and adjust your expectations accordingly instead of trying to attack the 360.

Hideo kojima has even said the ps3 was overhyped.

Drop this attitude that its soo much more powerful and the 360 is woefully underpowered and get playing.

[Aquanox]

Bottom Line: Regardless of what version's look you prefer the most, there's one irrefutable difference that does affect your experience: GTA IV just runs smoother on the Xbox 360 compared to the PS3 version...

... add to this that if you really liked the game and finished it, you'd really not want to lose the downloadable episodes exclusively available the Xbox 360 this year.

It's now pretty clear what is the educated choice of the platform to play this game on.

[Silellak]

"It's now pretty clear what is the educated choice of the platform to play this game on."

The one your friends are playing? The one with the controller you like?

[Fishy Fingers]

I believe an educated man would just play the game/enjoy the game.

[Mr_Potato_]

The PS3 version was acknowledged as the superior version in numerous sites (including IGN) because there's no pop-in and a better draw distance (you can't RROD too, which is a nice plus). Rockstar says they love the PS3 version colors too...

Now maybe we can move on to something else.

[InYourMom]

Like Krakdol demonstrates, these comparisons no matter how accurate and provable will still not change anyones mind. They will continue to believe what they believe regardless if it's true or not.

As someone who has played both I am happy that I bought the 360 version and only rented the PS3.

[sleepbox]

They are writing in their spin of BS, of course.

[THE TERMINATOR]

So 360 version has screen tearing ? UGH
Plus all CREDIBLE sites have stated the PS3 version is superior both in graphics and performance including IGN,Gamespy,EGM,1up and Gamesradar.
Why do we have to keep bringing up these pointless articles?

[digger18]

You say the PS3 version is superior, yes it is with less popins, load times and graphic processing effects, but the framerates and screen rez goes to the 360 version

[digger18]

What I don't get is both 360 and PS3 versions have poor framerates, when there are more graphic intensive games out there with way better framerates.

Yes the 360 has slightly better framerates, but both being around mid to late twenties is an embarrassment for such a graphical mess of a game.

[n00bPwner]

u must have a sh1t TV. games look absolutely brilliant on my highend Sammy, LCD HDTV.

Have u not raced through the city at night will all the lights and it pouring rain, and all the reflections on the road and effects everywhere? the game looks f*cking good. period. Rockstar completely outdid themselves.

[Skerj]

Wow by now you'd think people would just like. ..you know buy and play the game.

[Fishy Fingers]

What? Gamers don't play games, they argue over them.

Hold on... thats not right is it?

[Skerj]

Apparently we're wrong Fish and it IS more fun to argue over which game looks better even if you haven't bought it or have no intention on purchasing it. Silly me, silly me indeed.

[Guitarded]

I like seeing the staunch Sony supporters being shown their machine is not all that and a bag of chips. I also enjoy knowing I made a good choice by going with the 360 first then getting a PS3 when it gets to $200 or less or when a game comes out that I don't want to wait for. Neither of those conditions has occurred yet. I want to play Uncharted and Metal Gear but since they are both single player games I can wait for a $200 PS3 and still get the same experience maybe better with patches and lower price for the games also. The same reason I wait for 360 single player games to drop in price before I buy. Cheaper/better games. With *many* multi-plats running better on 360 and the LIVE experience being better I see no reason to buy a PS3 before it hits $200 or less. GTAIV runs better on 360, technically.

[Mr_Potato_]

There are tons of reasons actually, you know them :
- more reliability : your 360 will burn several times, like the others
- online is free
- more game genres (uncharted, ratchet, mgs 4... soon little big planet) and arguably better games (GT5 prologue, soon resistance 2, killzone 2...)
- easy upgradability (no need to buy a crappy 20 Gb disk from microsoft, for the same money, you can put any 500 Gb disk in your PS3 in 2 minutes)
- a better pad (my opinion, but everybody agrees the D-PAD on Xbox 360 is horrible compared to PS3)
- many other reasons soon (like Home on november...)

[zypher]

why do you believe multiplatform games run better on the 360 than the PS3? mind you, i have both systems, and usually make multiplatform purchases according to which controller i prefer (360 for fps' and racers, and PS3 for everything else). to date the only games i have noticed perform better on the 360 was Madden 08, MLB 2k8, Splinter Cell Double Agent and possibly Stranglehold. majority of everything else is equal on both platform, while a slim few (GTA IV, CoD4, Burnout Paradise) look marginally better on PS3.

[OldGamer]

Does this sh*t really even matter to people?

The game is great on both systems. Can we stop all this comparison b.s. already? So it's a few frames faster on one or the other. Wippy-freakin-doo!

Will you notice when you're slaughtering cops and hookers? Maybe you will if you have both systems.

I won't.

/rant off

[thehitman]

I confused the game outputs 60 frames on both but both are at 30fps on their test???

[i Shank u]

lol yea that part was like "huh wtf?" i think they were describing how both systems output video signal to a TV at 60hz (60FPS), so the signal to the tv is always the same and can support up to 60 FPS. nothing related to the game's actual framerate

[i Shank u]

i agree the comparisons have hit this site like a freaking flood and should be put to an end; that said, this is a good comparison thats worth a sh1t, unbiased and compared through technical specs rather then preference/opinion. I find this interesting because i find dorky, technical crap interesting : ) i didnt think 360 would run GTA at a higher frame rate and res. w/AA then ps3...... but then it all boils down to the question "so what?"

[n00bPwner]

More proof the 360 versions runs and looks better. And I've been playing non-stop. No screen tearing. You want screen tearing, play Saint's Row. The V-Sync in GTA is the same as in all UE3 games. It stays on 99% of the time but quickly switches off for a frame every now and then to preserve the excellent framerate. It's a genius method, and makes sure the 360 versions runs much better than the PS3rd version.

LMFAO. PS3rd version can't even run in HD, doesn't even use AA, has brown smears everywhere, AND RUNS THE ENTIRE GAME BELOW THE ACCEPTED STANDARD OF 30 FRAMES A SECOND! LMFAO.

Lag B3yond! but but but but TEH CELL!!!!!!!!

[etownone]

the only people wishing to move on and forget comparisons are the sonyfans. And i dont blame them.... but let it be the other way around...oh boy.... if anyone needs a refresher: http://www.n4g.com/NewsCom-...

there you can see a legion a rabid sonyfans in full force deliriously happy making all kinds of negative comments towards the 360 because they thought the ps3 version was superior.

fact is, GTA4 is the definitive multi-plat game to see which platform can get the game running better, and now we all know the 360 for the win again.

in the end the both look and play the same, BUT let it be known and remembered the highest rated, best selling game this GEN, potential 2009 GOTY, and again the definitive multi-plat game to compare did in FACT run better on 360.

[Meresin]

There is no such thing as a "definitive" cross-platform game. It's the exclusives that are important, because they are the games designed specifically to utilize all of a console's potential. Cross-platform games, on the other hand, can easily be held back on one platform by inappropriate programming and design decisions that do not fully utilize the hardware of one system while catering to the strengths of the other.

[OldGamer]

The thing is, even if "technically" the game runs better on 360, I and many others are not going to buy a 360 to play it. We will be just as happy playing this great game on our PS3.
All these comparisons are only relevant if you own both consoles.
And if you're a total tecnophile who cares about such things.

And I believe that if this was a PS3 exclusive it would have been much better than the current game on either console.

[Meresin]

In all honesty, the game looks like it was designed for the 360 first, then ported clumsily to the PS3 toward the end. Perhaps it was intended to be a 360 exclusive, but Sony killed the deal somehow. If that's the case, and it seems likely, the problems with the PS3 version are due to inappropriate programming, not inferior hardware.

The game has pretty bad pixelation problems on both platforms, so I don't think it's exactly something to celebrate from a graphics perspective either way. Yes, I'm sure it looks fine on a 32" SDTV, but the problem is very apparent on my 61" DLP HDTV.

Don't get me wrong. I love GTA IV. I bought it at midnight of release day, and I'm very pleased with my purchase. It just doesn't have as crisp and clean a picture as I'd like. The framerate, however, seems just fine, and I own the PS3 version.

[ECM0NEY]

you can actually see at over 100 FPS. That is why COD4 is so smooth compared to lets say Halo 3 which is 30 FPS.

Proof: http://www.100fps.com/how_m...