GTA IV Is Not Perfect - It Gets The Bad Cop treatment

While we have seen many overly positive previews so far, GTA IV certainly can't be perfect -- no game is. Luckily there are still some journalists out there who dare to have a slightly critical look at R*'s latest piece. Two of those are IGN's Patch Kolan and Cam Shea, who review the game's multiplayer component in Good Cop, Bad Cop style.

[Hydrolex]

yes, trees look so ugly.

multiplayer characters look so ugly and old gen.

+all cars have the same Licnece Plates

I know it's not a big deal but it's not that thattttt hard for Rockstar.

all police cars have the same number.

[sonarus]

lol funny thing is at the end of the day, despite the imperfections the game will still get glowing reviews and the faults will get over looked. When it comes to the less popular games though, such imperfections are blown out of proportion

[Omegasyde]

There is only so much you can do with attention to detail..

I remember critics going apesh** on Oblivion saying there were no bathrooms, no children, and only 1 type of fish in the game.

The game is still great by my standard and if you want attention to deal hydrolex you won't find it in Sandbox type games.

[RiseOfMonster]

You hit the nail on the head there. That's whats wrong with videogames today.

Every week I read articles about critics wanting something new and different but give godly scores to games with a history but are largely the same as the ones before them.

If Assassins Creed had been AC4 I'm sure the majority of scores would have beens 9's instead of a mix of 9's and 7's. And the faults overlooked.

I'm just glad there are games like Psychonauts and Portal to come in and once in a while shatter the status quo.

It's just too hard to new IP's to get a fair shake today.

[Slayer OP]

If anyone thinks GTA IV is last gen in terms of graphics theny need to get thier eyes checked or look up the term "last gen"

GTA 3

http://www.gtaunderground.c...

This is current gen GTA IV

http://media.gtanet.com/ima...

GTA IV is not last gen graphics and that is proof.

[kingOVsticks]

well I don't expect GTA4 to be perfect all the past gta's always had glitches and what not and still pulled out 9's and 10's. GTA4 is going to be no different the game is still going to pull out high scores but as long has review sites like gamespot actually do their job and not fall into the hype machine then I have no problem.

[Rugludallur]

Could those proplems be limit to the 360?

[v1c1ous]

you get permabanned to the open zone?

[Truckasaurus]

The ridiculous 360 7 gig disc size is going to ruin both versions with most of the 25/50 gig BluRay disc being wasted.

The 360's smaller than last gen storage format means that GTAIV:

* Will have massive amounts of repeated textures/material
* Will have massive amounts of repeated geometry
* And most likely all sorts of other compromises in graphics and gameplay

I can't imagine what a nightmare being forced to support the 360 has been for Rockstar:

* Smaller than last gen disc format
* No standard harddrive
* Massively weaker graphics hardware

Rockstar really should have just put the whole 360 mess on the backburner instead of delaying the game six months dealing with the 360 problems and come out with a real 50 gig visually stunning PS3 and PC version of the game.

[Gorgon]

"* Will have massive amounts of repeated textures/material
* Will have massive amounts of repeated geometry
* And most likely all sorts of other compromises in graphics and gameplay"

All those problems are related to MEMORY limits, not disc space, since this is open-ended seemless game. And in that department the PS3 is quite more limited than the 360. Sorry. Maybe you should learn a bit more about hardware before comenting.

And by the way, I have a PS3 and no 360 in case you want to call me a 360 fanboy.

EDIT: of course fanboys had to disagree. To bad they don't know enough to actually reply and defend their case instead.

EDIT 2: Hey truck, instead of sying I'm wrong why don't you try to explain instead?

[Truckasaurus]

"All those problems are related to MEMORY limits, not disc space"

Bzzzt!!!

Fail...

[Strelnikov]

Sure, the 360 has more memory better memory bandwidth (sort of), but you can't load tons of textures and geometry into memory if it doesn't exist on the disc. The PS3 is capable of bigger worlds with more variety simply because of the disc and the built in hard drive. Notice, that does not mean better visual quality necessarily, only more to look at.

[poopface1]

There lucky if they can get the ps3 version to look and run as good as the 360 one, regardless of how much space the game takes up.

http://kotaku.com/348603/ro...

[Genuine]

http://jbooth.blogspot.com/...

Mind you this is an unbiased 3rd party developers blog. Not some random fanboys, like some contributers here are fond of.

[Gorgon]

"Sure, the 360 has more memory better memory bandwidth (sort of).."

Wrong. In fact the PS3 has more bandwith than the 360 due to the use of XDR memory which is faster than the GDDR3 used in the 360.

" but you can't load tons of textures and geometry into memory if it doesn't exist on the disc. The PS3 is capable of bigger worlds with more variety simply because of the disc and the built in hard drive. Notice, that does not mean better visual quality necessarily, only more to look at."

The textures and size of the world depend on a lot of different things. Oblivion, Stalker, etc on PC where pretty big and still they didn't fill up a DVD9 by any strech. Also take into account that on a PC textures are far better (more space required) AND they are usually more decompressed due to more memory available (even more space required).

As for the bigger worlds yes and more detail, yes thats true, more space on the disc allows you to put more stuff. But the size and detail also depends on how much time and resorces devs have to make the game. The fact that the PS3 has HDD and Blue-ray doesn't mean that the game would be bigger or more detailed than it is.

As for the textures and geometry detail, don't forget that we are not talking about a linear, level-based corridor shooter here in which you can load different sets of textures into memory per level like in uncharted. We are talking about a free-roaming world seemlessly loaded into memory. Usually the memory available for game textures, game geometry and game code is much more limiting in this kind of games, even using such technics as streaming.

[machete squad steve]

This is a exactly why i love this site,I learn allot from these arguments.

First V1c1ous had a valid question one I think about often, and obviously everyone here does as well.

I want my games to be as good as they can, and it p!sses me off thinking there cutting them back to keep to a one disc title.

Im sure 360 owners would rather have 2-3 disc versions of a game to keep content right?

P.S. Genuine you have a kick@$$ avatar!! Season 3 starts on June 1st

[DARK WITNESS]

lol..

well at least its better then everything else thus far.

i mean, if you want to pick on the little things like that, shall we start ripping into the other games ? there would be nothing left of them.

[Fishy Fingers]

GTA's appeal goes above and beyond graphics alone. It's going to be fun as hell and that's what's important.

[Captain Tuttle]

RIP. Best picture on N4G in a long time

[poopface1]

and then my roomate and his friend went to visit bob ross' grave. They looked him up and were like "aww hes dead." So they looked up where he was buried and it was only like 20 min away. I dont know why they visited the dead guy, probaly cause they were blazed.

[Captain Tuttle]

I killed alot of brain cells watching Bob Ross.

[ChefDejon]

"All those problems are related to MEMORY limits, not disc space"

did he just type these words........wow you should probly get off the internet

And in that department (memory) the PS3 is quite more limited than the 360 well gorgon will you please explain to me why the ps3 is more limited

[Ovidius]

No game is perfect. And at the guys above... I'm all for PS3, but it's not JUST the disk space limit and no standard hard drive for the 360, but also the PS3's RAM 'limitations' as well. The PS3 and 360 are identical when it comes to ram, except devs can choose how much RAM they want to use for video and audio on the 360. For PS3 it's 256mb video and 256mb audio. Of course, if programmed correctly you could use alot more than 256mb for video when you use the Cell and RSX together. But that takes alot of work, I'm sure. The game will be identical on both consoles. Both consoles have their faults.

All I know is, I don't think I'll be playing GTAIV online. I love online gaming, but it'll be odd playing GTAIV online against people. Probably just me but meh.. ohw ell.

[machete squad steve]

360 and not with the PS3 can you explain?

And why did two people disagree with what you said, is it because your mistaken about the ram? I wish people would explain why they disagree instead of just clicking when it's more then just about one opinion.

[Genuine]

First, the 360's RAM is unified. Apparently this makes it more flexible for what a dev needs. The Ps3's RAM is split 256/256, apparently this makes it harder for devs to get what they need out of the Ps3.

Second, the Ps3's OS (operating system) eats up 3x as much RAM as the 360's OS. This alone is cold hard proof that the Ps3 has less useable RAM.

[SuperSaiyan4]

Of people that dont have a clue on what they are talking about, disc space is not an issue, just because one developer says they need X amount of space doesnt mean the other developer using less amount of space means its a limit of the hardware or disc.

How many AAA high rated games have you seen on the PS3 using blu-ray discs in comparison to Xbox 360 games using a DVD? Come on tell me which one has MORE high marks on reviews? blu-ray based games or dvd based games?

Also limit on hardware? Oh please come on thats stupid, PS3 uses more of its 512mb ram than the 360 does thats a known fact which everyone should know by now.

Also the 360 gpu is in fact superior to the PS3 gpu which again everyone should know about even the neighbours cat.

The PS3 will utilise the CELL mostly for its graphics where the RSX is the supporting GPU so in which case graphics can be on par with the 360's but means more focus on software rendering as the 360 can do it via hardware which is always better than software.

Also since the 360 has more available memory well its a no brainer on which could handle graphics better.

Disc space well all depends how much content, kind of developement tools used and what kind of stuff will be in the game.

We all know for a fact that Japanese developer tend to love using CGI which can take up a lot of space especially if the visuals are in HD.

I have noticed that some videos on the PS3 and 360 and some a game like Mortal Kombat that with the PS3 version its a lot bigger download compared to the 360 versions.

GTA4 looks very impressive for the size of the game and definently looks tons better than last gen thats something we can all agree on I am sure.

Games always improve visually over time, as years pass by visuals improve but dont we want gameplay elements to improve as well? I mean hell might as well gives us GTA 3 with todays visuals in that case or give us a PS2 game redone in PS3 graphics.

No gameplay elements, AI and many other things need to be improved as such things like evironments and reaction to them with interactivty and upscaling the AI.

And games like Deus EX 3 should hopefully fully utilise such hardware in upscaling the AI as we want more realism in games rather than just amazing graphics along with extra things no seen before in games.

There is a lot more to it than just being a fanboy who just causes arguments for the sake of what? If you dont make games and are not a programmer then leave such comments to those that are in order for them to advise on what and what cannot be done.

Some developers like EPIC or exclusive developers for PS3 will praise their game or praise a particular version, ever wondered why? And why they always say NO difference between versions when they are?

Its because they are NOT going to slat there own game and want YOUR money thats why.

If Kojima says MGS4 is the best and best everything you will all agree, yet if it turns out to be garbage then what?

Developers will try their best to sell you their games they will tell you its the best its only up to the gamer to realise after reading reviews or trying the game out if it really is.

So stop falling into this nonsense and those that are fanboys please just give it a break.

Next gen you will all be at each others throats worse than you are now I am sure of it.

[Ureval]

I would like to take this moment to stand up from my desk, and for all reasonable thinking gamers out there give you a round of applause my friend. Bubbles for you. If more people gave an informed response we might actually be able to talk about games, and cut all the stupid high school bull$hit "my console is better then yours".

Its not about the hardware people, its about the games. I would rather focus on storytelling and gameplay, then all this graphics crap.

I like shiny graphics too, but having a more powerful console doesnt automatically make your dong get longer, and turn you into a s3x god. Get over it.

[Breakfast]

wow...im puttin this in the bubble 101 section. Good job bro. Thanks for taking the time to write that.

"Its not about the hardware people, its about the games. I would rather focus on storytelling and gameplay, then all this graphics crap."

+1

[Hercules]

thats like the only comment i didnt skimmed thru..i had to read it all and it all made sense...thank man..and also thanks for being unbiased..no fanboy detected at all bubbles for you, and for anyone who disagrees, why not share you thoughts with us?

[Ureval]

Theyve got no reason. Convincing a fanboy to explain himself is harder then convincing a person to change their political or religious views. The best reason they can come up with is "youre a stupid f a g."

If you say anything negative about Sony or positive about 360 you autmoatically get buried under disagrees, even if what you say is 100% true and provable.

PS Anyone who disagrees when someone says something reasonable, all your disagrees do is prove you cant handle truth.

[Genuine]

It would take alot more issues than what this story provides, for me to consider not getting GTA IV.

edit- bubbles to you saiyan for an intelligent post. If more noobs were aware of things you mentioned, there would be less spam on this site.

[Ureval]

I agree. Good graphics are nice, but as long as the game looks pretty good, has a decent framerate, well balanced gameplay, and a good story, Im happy.

[Genuine]

You should try googling "Cell processor video image decoder" or "Cell processor video imaging", because that's what the Cell's main purpose is in the ps3. To be a video image decoder for blu-ray movies. That's one reason 3rd party devs hate the ps3, because Sony metaphorically handed them a VCR and said "Make this play videogames." Guess what industries are taking advantage of this "super chip". If you guessed the PC industry you're wrong. The Cell is in line to be used in digital camera's, hdtv's, cellphones, seismographs, and MRI medical equipment. Not for it's general purpose processing power, but because it excels at decoding video imagery.

[machete squad steve]

KICKS @$$! Only the good die young.

Bubbles to Hydrolex for the great pic

[Says you]

if the graphics on that system that doesn't work has a powerful GPU it wouldn't use to much Unreal Engine 3 considering thats all I have been seeing so I guess its not so powerful after all now is it! and thats not a known fact your just lieing how do you know how much the PS3 is using memory considering you don't know crap about that since the PS3 has 512mb the same as that other system then how would you know that it uses more then the one that breaks?.

[bootsielon]

"I am sick to the teeth Of people that dont have a clue on what they are talking about"

Me too, and that includes you and Genuine among others on this thread. Your post is evidently one sided and doesn't even provide proof, it's all just a bunch of reductionist claims like "...since the 360 has more available memory well its a no brainer on which could handle graphics better" and dogmatic statements like "Also the 360 gpu is in fact superior to the PS3 gpu which again everyone should know about even the neighbours cat". I'm less than impressed really, but given your comment history it doesn't surprise me either.

Your longwinded comment doesn't deserve bubbles as it is evident how one-sided it is, and I would love to debate why PS3's architecture allows for squeezing more power, and how having Blu-ray helps game development (especially in Sandbox games, sports games, racing games, party games, and fighting games; mostly in multiplayer games but not exclusively), and I could take quotes out of context from tons of developers that say how the PS3 is more powerful than 360 but harder to program for, but I'm tired of doing so; hell, I could even rely on reductionist bullshots like you just did, and even try the dogmatic approach (Genuine ate it, so it wouldn't be entirely futile). Or, you could simply look at my comment history or do some research on your own.

Let the games speak instead. This year it seems that 360s exclusives will not be able to reach PS3s exclusives in terms of production values. For a reason people say this is PS3's year.

[Genuine]

Boots if you were as informed as you like to let on, you would know that my post above is accurate. The whole RAM issue was argued to death over a year ago. I didn't bother posting links because I assumed most people were aware of the status of both consoles on the subject. If you don't believe it, google it, and see for yourself.

[bootsielon]

But you're providing a one-sided reductionist argument, and that is not science. It's ridiculous to think that the Xbox 360 wins on RAM alone and solely on that. If I proceed the way you and Supersaiyan love to proceed as fanboys, I will simply say that there are always workarounds, that "everybody knows" how (list games here) jump around the RAM problem, how there are dozens of tests that prove how the Cell is more powerful than any CPU and/or GPU tests on the market; as you said, it has been argued to death ever since the cell processor was announced and still continues to be.

It's foolish to think that the 360 has an edge just because of one or another, hardware part. The xbox 360 has unified shaders and unified RAM, which saves developers time. The PS3 has segregate RAM and shaders, and you could work around those issues as the cell processor can also act as a graphics processor; even more, the RAM connected to the cell is faster and the cell is faster than the 360 CPU, so there's nothing theoretically impossible on PS3 that can be done on 360. Even if PS3 is difficult to program for, it's also a more streamlined system, which means you can squeeze a lot of processing power if used right. Just google it: If you Ask John Carmack, Mark Rein, Dave Perry, or Hideo Kojima, few examples all of which are 3rd party developers, they will tell you that you can squeeze more power out of the PS3. There has only been one record of a third party developer saying that the 360 is more capable, and that was a guy that was founding a new company that competes with Sony's new Online service; and funny enough, he not only used a reductionist argument such as "fillrate is everything", but he is not even a game programmer; he was just an artist. Google all of this.

So, you need to google why Blu-ray benefits Multiplayer games when compared with DVD (hell, use your reason, it shouldn't be too hard, I hope), and for single player games, think why Blu-ray is better than DVD on open ended sandbox games, perhaps the most popular genre of today and the one with most potential for growth. For example, on games such as GTA4 and 2 days 2 vegas. It's also been argued to death and even developers have complained about DVD9's restrictions on these kinds of games. We've only been through PS3's first year, so naturally 360 hasn't seen those issues. But read GTA4's first review, there was nothing made up; for a reason Rockstar demanded that he take down the page.

Google it.

Blu-ray, Hard Drive, Cell processor, streamlined architecture... all of these has been debated to death, as you say. In your words and supersayian's, "Everyone knows" that Xbox 360's only advantage is ease of programming, and as I said, many 3rd party developers, either corporations or individuals, have claimed the PS3 is superior hardware. Only one has claimed 360 is superior, and as I said, he has an agenda against Sony. Hell, nothing personal, it's just business.

Still, I have a better idea. Let's let the games talk, and so far this year the situation is a lot different when compared to the previous year.

[TrevorPhillips]

doesnt matter guys they can always release updates for this game so there wont be any problem the game will still be fantastic i mean not all games can be perfect right

[Amp]

Playing online, next to a meandering stream......