Phil Spencer: here's why you'll need to be online

"I mean the analogy, and I don't know if it's a great analogy… let's say I live in an area that doesn't have cell service. I wouldn't go buy a cell phone. Now, I might roam in different areas where my cellphone becomes active."

[Gazondaily]

Phil Spencer just dodged the questions really. I still don't understand why its mandatory to sign in at least once a day.

[DxTrixterz]

Either to see if the game is a legal copy or you still own it.

[US8F]

Or maybe phil spencer that you might not get that big fat bonus check you were promised if MS is not successful.

[abzdine]

hahaha and the show goes on! what they dont know is that sometimes i freaking dont want to be online.

[dantesparda]

So should all smartphones apps stop working if you dont check in every 24hrs Phil? Such bullsh!t, keep digging MS, keep digging. Arrogant bastards

[theaceh]

It's because the Xbox One is more than just a gamming console... its a digital parole officer!

[JokesOnYou]

"I mean the analogy, and I don't know if it's a great analogy… let's say I live in an area that doesn't have cell service. I wouldn't go buy a cell phone."

I mean that says it all...X1 is a online console, dont buy it if you dont want to be connected or live in a area that doesnt have internet. Thank fully I like the benefit of being connected where my content goes wherever I go.

[famoussasjohn]

That doesn't make sense considering that they require us to install the game and gives us the option of playing the game without the disc being in the drive.

[bootsielon]

@JokesOnYou Joke's on you

[badz149]

that's when you know he's DESPERATE!

"I mean the analogy, and I don't know if it's a great analogy…" - NO, PHIL! THAT's not a great analogy, in fact, it's STUPID!

you can't put the XBone in your pocket now is it?

your phones doesn't REQUIRE you to be online once everyday is it?

and you don't get to buy discs for your phone's apps are you?

see how STUPID that analogy is?

[dumahim]

@JokesOnYou

You better not decide to take your Xbox to a place without an internet connection.

[BallsEye]

Is it so bad with internet in America? In europe 100 MBps cost 12 euro(16 USD) a month ( even in poorest european countries slowest connection is 10mbps which cost 7 euro). I was living in a small town before with only a little over 1000 people living there... I had 50mbps connection as cheap as bread.

[Kleptic]

^its horrible in America...Horrible...

I live about 90 miles west of Pittsburgh, PA...a fairly 'normal' sized city in the US. I do have broadband access, but without a cable TV package, the cost starts at $60 a month after your 6 months of reduced price for being a new customer...and there is only a single provider available in my area...

if i drive 15 miles from my home, in nearly any direction...broadband isn't available for residential customers...only businesses can access it, and only by paying through the teeth to have the wires run...

i won't even talk about mobile broadband, we're lucky to have voice calls...

While it is true that nearly any urban area has no problem with broadband access...urban areas don't even make up a quarter of the country...Just a 1 hour drive into the pocono mountains from New York City, and they don't even know what broadband is...

this is very common in a lot of the US...this place is still 70%+ farm land. Its almost a 100% guarantee at this point after sony's announcements; MS is going to drop that always on thing...there is NO WAY they'll remotely put up a fight if they keep that policy...

[SilentNegotiator]

@JOY

So you've never had connection issues? And you don't think people should be able to enjoy SP games without internet because Xbone is nonsensically "an online (required) console"?

Stop trying so hard with your "OH U DONT HAZ INTERNET AT ALL? XBAUX IS ONLINE SYSTEM!" crap.

Do you EVER get tired of sucking up anything the Microsoft corporation feeds you?

[dillydadally]

His explanation doesn't even make sense and is almost insulting he thinks we'll buy it! The products he's taking about have no problem letting you play local content if you go offline and the media he's taking about is small or streamable! I'm not going to go away from my home console and download a flipping bluray sized game just to play it! But you know what I might do? Bring my disc! His answer doesn't even apply and there is no real excuse other than anti consumerist, draconian DRM!

[Narutone66]

Here's Don Mattrick's recommendation for those who don't have internet connections: http://www.youtube.com/watc...

[SilentGuard]

They can still keep their DRM policies by only requiring connections during game installs. Their is no need to require check-ins every 24 hours.

[GamerToons]

What a tool.

You can do all of that on your PS4.

It's a BS lie. Just like EA tried to spin SimCity is an MMO BS

[georgeenoob]

I hope you fanboys do know that you're only making MS stronger. When fanboys bitched about games, look what happened e3. Now we wait for their next move on this.

[dantesparda]

You're calling people "fanboys" when you are one obvious diehard MS fanboy.

[StanLee]

You know, at the beginning of this current gen, Microsoft was criticized for monetizing online play with Live. Turns out, they were right; it was a bold move that proved hugely successful. The criticisms today aren't any different, they're taking bold steps to connect users with each other and their content and they'll be proven right again. Case in point, look at Sony's attempt to now monetize online play on the PS4 after realizing how successful a model it was. The internet has a vocal community but it's the minority. I think sometimes, it's better to just take a wait and see approach to see the benefits to users rather than leveling criticism.

[dennett316]

Uh, what? You know if they backtrack on this that it will be very humiliating for their corporate image, right?
Also, it wasn't just "fanboys" (ahh, the throwing around of that word when somebody has an opinion you don't like) criticising MS for their original reveal, a lot of Xbox fans were unimpressed as well.
If you think all the criticism is just coming from trolls and fanboys, well you've got your head deeper in the sand than Microsoft do.

[StanLee]

@ dennett316

I don't think fanboys and trolls are the only ones with criticisms. I think there is general concern that Microsoft's policy could disenfranchise some users but that's a small minority I believe and I believe the numbers will bear this out in the end. If you read what Phil Spencer said, you see Microsoft's thinking.

[DARK WITNESS]

Then you should be happy we have been bitching...

Can you imagine what the MS E3 would have been like if there had not been all this rage..

you would have had another 1hr+ of TV, sports, more tv, sports... and they would have showed 10 sec teasers for all the games.

[JackBNimble]

@ Stanlee

You know you don't have to own an always online console to be connected. MS could have done the same dam thing with xbone with out always online.

[dillydadally]

What an ignorant statement. A lot of these "fanboys", including myself and all my friends, were Xbox 360 owners but are now reluctantly switching to PS4. Only a true fanboy would still stand up for MS after the incredible amount of anti consumerist, draconian principles they are trying to push on us! We just don't want to support such an evil company and shame on anyone who defends them!

I mean even this guys explanation is offensive in that he basically insulting us thinking we are stupid enough not to realize his statements don't even apply to the always on DRM. If it was just a service so we can connect anywhere, why can't we play single player games without internet? You can on the devices he's talking about! The answerer is he is lying! It's nothing about this and everything about DRM and his explanation doesn't even make sense. I mean, if I'm away from my home console, I can't stream the game to another device and I'm not going to download a bluray sized game just to play! This model doesn't even apply to games! He's lying to us! And you defend him!

[callahan09]

"Any other device that you own, your library is digital. Frankly, if you're on the PC, or a Steam customer, or an App Store customer on iOS devices -- this is how you think about your library of content."

PHIL!! I don't need to check in with Apple every 24 hours to use the content I download from the App Store. I don't need to check in with Steam every 24 hours to use the content I download from Steam. Are you following me? This is quite significantly different. Do you know what DID require constant check-ins to play? Sim City 4. Diablo 3. These games were PANNED by fans for that policy. People hated it. You shouldn't be going down this road.

[Death]

GameCenter on your iphone is constantly "checking in" while you play. Steam does the same thing when you boot up your computer or launch a Steam game.

[famoussasjohn]

Death - Gamecenter doesn't work if you don't set up an account. The games will still work without a problem. You won't receive achievements and such, but it's not a mandatory feature.

[Death]

It's not mandatory, but it limits the gaming experience. If you want to use the online features, you need to set it up.

Phil is essentially saying the XboxOne is geared towards customers that want the full experience of being connected. It's not marketed towards people looking for a purely offline system. If Microsoft had close to 50 million Live subscribers, they are targeting them as potential customers, His analogy about cell phones sums it up. You aren't going to buy a cellphone if you aren't going to subscribe to cell service. Sure, you can still use the calculator in it, but at that point you should probably just buy a calculator.

[callahan09]

Death, of course not going online with your games limits the features and experience. That's a no-brainer. But having online features as an option to expand the experience, and requiring online in order to play any of the experience AT ALL, are two totally different things.

[PiTCHBLaCK]

@ Death

Steam does not Check in when you boot up your PC and you can start steam in offline mode.

[gaffyh]

@Death - Nobody wants a purely offline or online system, people want CHOICE. This systems takes choice out of the equation, which means if your internet goes down, or XBL servers go down, or your network hardware gets damaged at some point for more than 24 hours, you are basically left without a gaming system.

MS is basically pushing their consumers towards PS4. They are basically saying, "You can buy a PS4 for the times when the internet is off", which is the stupidest decision ever.

[GuyThatPlaysGames]

That feature is the stupidest thing I ever heard of. MS shot themselves in the foot with this one.

[StanLee]

Okay, I know this is asking a lot but, intelligently, no trolling, what are your criticisms of the policy? Because in it's simplicity, it's not asking owners to do anything the majority don't already do daily. If you're here criticizing, you're not one of those persons who will be marginalized by the policy. This is a serious question and I invite anyone else to detail their complaints intelligently as well. Keep in mind, "it's Marxists!", isn't a complaint.

[mydyingparadiselost]

@Stan
Once the server is gone your games are gone and your left with a brick and some blu ray coasters. If your internet is shut off, brick and coaster. This digital future of all installed games is complimented by a hard drive that is nowhere near big enough for the amount of games most gamers buy. These 'features' limit what can be done with your games and where it can be done at. If I want to take my console over to a friends (or anywhere for that matter) to show off they better have an intenet connection or brick and coaster. The digital content that is provided on most 'always connected' devices is cheap, like under ten dollars and usually just a dollar cheap, but so far no info on game prices going down even though your basically just renting your games for as long as M$ wants you to play them. And how about choice? Just the choice to buy a used game from a friend or on ebay or loan out games as I see fit? Oh yea, and all those other devices that store all your information and constantly connect to the net, the ones with the cameras and the facebook apps, are being monitored non stop by the US government all the time which makes putting a camera in the middle of your home with easy access to the net at all times a little ridiculous to me. But whatever, I'm sure there's all kinds of benefits to having a console that's always connected, just not as many as one that gives a choice.

[FunkMacNasty]

Yea, I'm not sure what he means by this either:

'Spencer points out that these days people expect their library to be with them."Any other device that you own, your library is digital. Frankly, if you're on the PC, or a Steam customer, or an App Store customer on iOS devices -- this is how you think about your library of content."'

I don't think about my gaming library needin to to 'move' with me. This is a rediculous statement, or I have no clue what he's really getting at. This might be different if we were still in an age of split-screen 2-player gaming. For all of Microsoft's alleged glimpse into the future, they seem to be ignoring the fact that 97% of multiplayer gaming is done via internet these days.. we have no need to take our gaming library anywhere

smh..

[KingKevo]

Simple: Authentication, downloading new ads and uploading the data Kinect has collected.

That's really everything I can think of and it all sucks.

[TheTwelve]

Microsoft has no choice but to truly show clear reason for their policies...and promote them as good for you consumers. Good luck!

12

[BallsEye]

The thing is, with xbox one you can play your games (or people's profiles who are chosen as your family members) on ANY xbox one ANYWHERE without the disc. Because you can play those games without the disc on any xbox one it requires you to check in to make sure 10 different consoles are not using games bought by 1 user in the same time. I admit it's not needed, they could'v done this better but it is what it is. Doesn't really affect me since I'm ALWAYS online when I'm on my console or PC. Still IMO they should ditch the retardd 24h check-in and think of something more consumer friendly.

[PiTCHBLaCK]

I Know, It sounds so good right? Steam has that to. But XBO is a Console, people prefer Discs on Consoles. on Steam the games are fully Digital, you d/l your game. on XBO you buy a Disc and it acts like a transfer thingy(stupid), then once It's on your XBO and tied to your Account nobody else can use your game. MS is saying "It's still theres , yes even though you bought it you're just renting it" since you have no say as to what happens to it.

Logging into your account from any XBO will allow you to play any game on your account but this Isn't some new Tech, many things on PC already do this, The downfall is on the XBO the HDD is only 500 GB. MS's vision is for everything to be fully Digital eventually. That means, no Trade ins, no Lending, no Sales...NOTHING. Many people will lose Jobs and all games will still be $60. We suffer, MS and Developers gain. PS4 for the win!.

[BallsEye]

@waltercross

As I said, I don't like it too but it's something that has to happen. Back in the day when there was no internet I loved my monthly press collection. We were exchanging it with friends, it was awesome. Now gaming press is almost dead, everything is on internet and eventho everyone complained about it at first now no one cares. Same thing will happen with gaming, everything will go digital no matter how you feel about it. It is the future, even if it's not the future you'd want.

[wellard]

And Phil Spencer, here's why your fans are switching to Playstation.

[DarthJay]

I'll explain it to you: modded Xbox's. It's a problem. It has been for a long time. No one wants to talk about it. No one wants to accept responsibility. Almost everyone I know that has an Xbox, at one point or another, has had a modded Xbox, myself included. It's not something I am particularly proud of but it was something that was so easy to do. Most people that mod their Xbox's use them offline. Some people use them online and eventually they get caught.

I would love some data on how many Xbox's they have found that have been modded. It's a bigger problem than people want to admit. So when people ask what brought them to this point, it's not really hard to figure out why. I'm not going to justify why I did it because there is no justifying, and it doesn't matter that I ended up purchasing most of the games I downloaded. It was wrong, and in the end, people like me that at any point had a modded console are the reason Microsoft has chosen to walk this path.

The cell phone comparison is a good one, and it's not surprising that it is lost on people. His point was that if you can't get reception where you live, you don't buy a cell phone. If you live in a tropical climate, you're probably not putting an ice skating rink in your back yard. If someone lives in an area where internet is a challenge, then maybe this console is not going to be right for that person. Clearly they are building the games in a way that they are not going to work properly without an internet connection, therefor, if you want to play them offline, there could be problems. Yes, they are essentially preventing people from buying their console, and it doesn't make sense, but that's a decision they will have to live with.

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with what they are saying, simply breaking it down instead of turning it into the constant pissing match of one liners that it always seems to devolve into. The reality is that for many people, this will never, ever, ever, ever be an issue. Ever. Do I love the direction? Again, no. I think it is abundantly clear that the 24 hour thing HAS to be dropped. There really is no two ways about it.

What is getting frustrating is the constant need to shame and insult people that want an Xbox One some people seem to have. I'm buying both and I am 100% stoked to have them both. None of these seemingly life or death issues remotely concern me. I really don't see a need to go beyond that. I really don't see how my personal decision effects anyone else. You don't want one? Oh well.

[MoveTheGlow]

Consoles weren't supposed to be cell phones, Spencer. We got them because they *didn't* do what cell phones do. If your console is just a hybrid of a PC and a cell phone, we don't want it. Especially people in developing countries don't want it. Ugh. Change or lose, Xbone!

Also, giving a cell phone analogy really doesn't work when you're talking about modding. I mean, how big is the Android market? Those things are still rootable, and still constantly modded. And they should be. They're *your* phones.

[GameCents]

Microsoft, this is not the toe to dig your heels deeper into the ground.

[Wizziokid]

Phil you can't defend the Xbox 1 at this point.

[Why o why]

You're wrong....he IS doing his job.....as a double agent. ......and doing it well

[Conan-O-Brady]

I think you're thinking of former Sony exec Phil Harrison.

[Why o why]

Yeah, my mistake... I was.

[JeffGUNZ]

Defend what? This is the way of the future. Digital downloading is going to be the norm in a few years. I have internet, so for me, I don't care one bit. If one is too cheap to pay for internet, then they shouldn't be spending 400-500 on a next gen console. Every area can have internet, even with satellite internet or DSL. The connection requirements to be logged in is so minimal, it's not like you need high speed internet for their 24 check in. For people who are technology sound and have stepped into the 21st century, this is not a big deal. The DRM requirement is pretty standard with digital download and install. You can't let someone buy the game, install it on his hard drive and then sell it or just give it to multiple friends. People here are so ignorant to the fact that MS is actually doing this to protect the video game industry, which helps us in the long run. You still can buy a used Xbox one game, so that isn't an issue. A lot of people are just trying to find anything negative about MS to cry about. Look at the preorders already, many people could careless about the internet connection as most people in the markets MS is targeting have internet.

[Wizziokid]

Enjoy renting your games while I buy mine then.

I want no part of MS and their future plan for gaming.

[SkullBlade169]

Stop being a tool. There is no reason why I should be required to check in to some dumb service just to sit down and play a single player game for awhile.

People who are defending this console seriously are stupid. If you want to pay more for weaker hardware and all these restrictions, go right ahead.

I don't give a damn what's better for the companies, they make enough money off games already. I'm not going to sacrifice control of my games and system just because some random greedy company wanted to increase their profits by limiting their products.

The machine as a whole is simply inferior, and is more expensive. I'm not going to buy it, simple as that.

[DARK WITNESS]

Jeff, Please.... oh please.... please, don't do this, don't tell me you actually believe that crap !!!

NOoooooo... Jeff, NOOOOooooooooo

[LeRise]

Single player games should be like movies, music or books - they don't need online connection.

[JeffGUNZ]

I don't give a sh*t what you buy, I plan on getting both eventually, but some of the comments below are so uneducated it's pathetic.

@WizzioKid. You're not renting the games, you own a game you buy until you trade it in, simple as that. You don't pay a daily or weekly rate to own the game, it's a flat rate and that's all. I want Dead Rising 3, I can have it for the rest of my life. If you want a PS4, knock yourself out, I am not telling your or suggesting to you which purchase you should make. It's your money, buy what you want.

@ SkullBlade169. Really? They make a lot of money, I guess that's why we had a record number of studios collapse and fall this generation. As tech increases, so does the revenue to produce a game. I don't think you really know how much goes into making next gen or this gen type of games. It's not that I am defending the console, but rather stating for a person like me, who resides in the USA, who is always on wifi, this system with it's always connected doesn't effect me negatively. You know, just like you don't care about what's better for the companies, I don't care that the system will be always connected. Christ, my 360 & PS3 are always connected now. The restrictions are so miniscule in reality but people on here, who hate anything MS related, make internet connection and DRM the end of the world. You still buy games new or used, nothing changes. The DRM is not going to ban one from buying second hand games.

Listen, I loved the PS4 conference as well, but some of the comments about the xbox one are just overkill. Again, get what you want, I respect any consumers opinion on what they spend their earned money on.

[rockbottom3076]

Jeff for us not being able to distribute games on steam or ios we pay a lot less for said game typically. Lets not forget xbox really pushed DLC as well to help publishers now we get unfinished games with DLC day one. Microsoft originally bought there exclusivity away from PS3 it was a bold move that worked. PS3 however still has some of the best exclusives this gen while 360 has halo. I appreciate them trying to combat pirates but theres got to be a better way. I'm a life long gamer ripe age of 37 never pirated, and have always had multiple consoles. The Xbox model really doesn't concern me but I'm more SP, BUT If I cannot connect online because of some unforeseen problem and cannot play my game then I have a 500 paperweight

[Sideras]

@JeffGUNZ You can give up your consumer rights all you want. But I'll keep mine thankyouverymuch. I'm a human being not damned cattle.

[PiTCHBLaCK]

@ Jeff

Don't be so blind, Many companies collapsed not just in the Game Industry. Countries are going bankrupted, I suppose you'll blame that on Video game companies not making enough to right?

I have no Idea how you can defend the right to Lend/Sell/Trade in your games to anyone you want.
Don't sit there and try to tell us "But you can!", No...you can only Trade in/Sell your games to participating Retailers. even MS said that, and to Lend out a game you have to deactivate it on your XBO...which in turns requires Internet AGAIN. Then your Buddy needs to pay ANOTHER fee to use it on his XBO, Fuck that. The more I think about MS's BS the madder I get. Up yours MS.

[Grindlefly]

its the check that is the problem. I have no doubt that at some point we will have an all digital console, and ultimately that might be the future, however, if ms are pushing for this include a 1tb hard drive and remove the check. Once something is purchased digitally it should be yours to access whether online or not. All my apps dont stop working on my ipad if i have no wifi

[a_bro]

Dodging questions for the real reasons I see....

[pompombrum]

And here is why you won't need to be online: PS4

/end discussion.

Also lol @ the Happy Gilmore picture.

[CaEsAr-]

LOL are you still trying after last night's blow.

[solidworm]

Here Phil take this spade and just keep digging bro.

[NicSage]

Closing, he added, "But we do think the world's moving to digital… Moving? I think it's there in almost every other device I think you own. We want to bring consoles along because I think there's inherent benefits to that. "

Sony is moving to digital as well.. do you see the restrictions that Microsoft has so easily imposed?

No.

[avengers1978]

to be honest sony has supported digital releases for awhile, a lot of games are coming out as day one digital releases on the PSN... this is just new to MS

[SquillieDeeWilliams]

You must not have seen the head of Sony's interview today on Gametrailers. He clearly said" our first party titles do not require any DRM, we leave it up to the third party publishes if they want to implement it". Also, you can share disk games, not digital.

[LeRise]

He already clarified than statement.
He meant online play ONLY.
Single-player games from ALL publishers are offline.

He also added that this works EXACTLY as it was on PS3.
The only thing that changed is that now you need PS+ membership to play online.

[tarbis]

What's funny is they're treating Xbone as a portable device that can go anywhere. Then why not make a handheld device then. His answers were ridiculous.

[Ratty]

Yeah... did he actually compare it to a cell phone?

[tarbis]

The better question would be. Did you read the interview?

[Ratty]

That's a good question. I actually did. Here's what I was refering to.

"I asked if those that have absolutely no access to internet are completely out of luck. It seems they are.

Spencer explained: "I mean the analogy, and I don't know if it's a great analogy… let's say I live in an area that doesn't have cell service. I wouldn't go buy a cell phone. Now, I might roam in different areas where my cellphone becomes active.""

[Sideras]

I'd love to see someone on the street walking with a that massive evil monolith held to their ear. All the while the kinect is hovering in front of the person ejecting a massive force field and saying; "I'm sorry Dave, but I can't allow you to go that way."

[PiTCHBLaCK]

@ Sideras

LOL, and a Big ass TV and Cable box from your Cable provider...If I saw someone walking around With the XBO, TV, Cable box I'd be tripping.

MS Shoulda just made a Hand held.

[JeffGUNZ]

It's the cloud he's talking about. Everything will be digitally stored, so if you go over your buddies house, you just log in as your username and your content is streamed to their device. That's the portability he is talking about, portability of ones content.

Yes, he did compare the connection-app feature to a cellphone. We buy a smart phone and download apps and get it's best features with internet/wifi connection. That's his comparison.

[Heavenly King]

a bit hard for a gigantic box to be portable though ;D

[tarbis]

Don't forget the Kinect ;D

[baodeus]

No, what he meant was that u can access all of your content any where u go and on any mobile devices (people own multiple mobile devices, so how can u give them the ability to connect all of them is the key) instead of being stuck to the console if u want to access your content. I don't think bringing 40 physical discs around with u (which u can only access using a stationary console) would be consider convenient right? That is what he meant by benefit of digital. Just think of how Sony is using the vita to allow u to access content u have on the go, but in MS case, it can be on just about any devices (I believe Sony is trying to extend it beyond vita as well , through Gaikai, because people have many different mobile devices so it is essential that u put your services on many devices as possible)

I don't think the log in requirement is stuck to the console. If u on the go, and u log in on your mobile phone to view or use your content, that could be consider a log in. All mobile devices are connected correct or else it would defeat the purpose of having a mobile devices in the first place. I mean how many people here arent logging into something (Facebook, Gmail, YouTube, twitter, etc...) on a daily bases? It is just something we are already doing anyways, so what is the fuss about logging in to xlive? Wouldnt u like it if u can log in to your psn on any mobile devices of your choice to access your games, movies, music, photo, etc...n the go at any time and anywhere? that is what MS is going for.

im baffled when seeing People on here dont really understand the concept of going digital when they are already doing it on a daily bases.

[PiTCHBLaCK]

I Understand the concept, I have many games on Steam and my Cell phone.

Your Games/content are tied to only YOUR account, You lose the right to lend out your games, trade it in anywhere, sell it anywhere. Every game for the XBO probably won't' even be available on many devices and may only appear on XBO making this anywhere on any device thing Mute. Then also Internet is required, check ins every 24H, Registering a game or deactivating a game all require Internet.

Some regions have Bandwidth caps, Our cap is 250 GB a month, Luckily our ISP is not enforcing the cap rule yet, if they did we could lose our Internet for a year(That'd be the penalty). But Luckily It's not enforced, we average 400GB to 700GB a month....way over 250 GB.

I Don't think the world is ready for full mainstream digital, ISP's need to be better, The HDD need to get bigger. Luckily I use a External 4TB HDD but eventually even that will be small once everything is Digital, Gamestop, Gamefly etc will all still exist but they'll be full digital only, It's not a bad thing but the World Isn't ready yet.

[tarbis]

I'm more baffled on how you don't understand that not everyone in the world has an internet access or even a reliable internet access.
And yes we do log-in on those sites. But, can you truly say all the time? A single net interruption will render your console useless.
If I'm moving house, the net should be disconnected then reconnected to the new location. That alone will take at least 3 days. So, how can I play?

[baodeus]

@watercross

1. MS orginaly wanted to go full digital (remember the survey they ask if people still want disc support tells me disc support wasn't their original intention because it doesn't really match with their new always connected console). By going full digital, they can probably take the STEAM service route, a very successful services with all the DRM and restriction applies (actually all of this are on PC for ages and no one complaining about it?), yet everyone loves it why? Because the game are cheap. It is not about "OWNERSHIP", "CONSUMER RIGHTS", "ANTI-CONSUMER", it is all about the "PRICE". People paying $60 for a game therefore they believed that they are entitled to something (AAA development cost, more gameplay time, more MP, able to lend it or sell it) but in reality, what they just bought is an expansive $60 piece of plastic because the software (which is what matter) IP are owned by developers/publisher, not the consumers correct? The copyrights are written into every software product (and it has been like this for ages as well) that people don't read, hence the consumer false entitlement believes when they purchase something that they think is expansive. If you go out and buy an adobe photoshop master suit right now for $2000, do you think you have the right to lend it to someone, sell it off or make copies and post it up on torrent site to share with everyone because you paid $2000 for it therefore you can do anything you want with it? Companies have to protect their investments because the property belong to them, not the consumer (consumer only have the right to use the software that they bought for themselves only, nothing else). If MS ditch disc base and go full digital like steam and game price goes down quickly to the $30-$40 range, or even $5 on some cases, do you think people still gonna buy $60 disc based game so they could lend it to their friends? Sony would immediately drop their disc base and go full digital in a heart beat if that is the case.

2. technology advancement have to start from somewhere. If you don't push it, it will never move forward. If you take a look around you right now, everything is moving toward digital it is not? Large countries may have problem expanding optic fiber connection, true, but you have to create the demand to push that to reality.
- Some smaller countries already have high speed connection (Japan or korea for example)
- google building optic fiber one state at a time
- Amazon, Icloud, Azure, even google cloud beta etc...all expanding rapdily
- Sony also push forward heavily in cloud services with Gaikai and PS Vita (didn't they say PS vita is essential to their success and it is all digital isn't not?) and here on n4g people really support Gaikai, but cloud on xbox one is a no no? I smell hypocracy here.

All developing/developed countries and business already moving forward, so why not take that momentum to push it even further. If you don't push it forward, there wouldn't be a demand for higher internet connection. Everyone is moving forward (i'm incline to include Sony in here as well, cause for some reason, people only understand something when Sony does it, not MS) and if you wait till everything is done, then you will just get left behind (MS must be stabbing itself right now for not tapping into mobile devices/computing on the go earlier like apple)

It is all about creating demand, which lead to more of it and eventually its get cheaper, more efficient, etc...but again, you have to push it forward and now is that time to do it or according to you, when do you think is the best time to push it forward?

[kingme71]

None of that made any sense as to why you have to check in once a day. A console is not a phone or a tablet that is inherently portable. I have never needed my console content to travel with me and don't need connectivity to play a single player game... period.

[bub16]

and this is exactly why i wont be buying a xbone

[Jeff257]

More evidence that Microsoft suits are delusional.

[airgangstarr]

the funny part is if they werent forcing it on us most people would allways b online anyways but since there such cocky pricks forcin this shit on us they get the middle finger an peace out sign no u made it allways online to stop used games period u jackass

[GreenRanger]

What annoys me most about the Xbox One is if you take away the crap DRM and the always-on Kinect, it's an awesome console with great games.

The DRM and Kinect are the deal breakers.

[tiffac008]

I'm not sure I follow because we can move the content of our account without the need for DRM. So the question remains, why make it mandatory?

[JeffGUNZ]

You're content is stored to your gamertag. So, you buy a game for the Xbox One, the rights to that game are owned to you. So, if you go log into your account on a friends Xbox one, since it's owned under your gamertag, you are able to play it on his device. Look at it like netflix. You can sign in anywhere and be able to use your content.

[tiffac008]

Cool feature but I think we can do that without the need for mandatory DRM. I mean I can sign in to multiple Apple products with my account and still play the games I got from the App Store offline.

[JeffGUNZ]

Yeah, but the difference in your example is that your purchase was PURELY digital. The reason for the DRM is because the games will be sold on disc format too. So, one could buy a game, install it to the hard drive, then just give it to a friend who does the same thing and then he gives it to friend who does the same thing and this cycle continues on and on. The DRM stops that, which actually is beneficial to the industry even know gamers make it sound like it's the end of the word. With digital download ONLY, like your example, their is no hard copy of the app, so you can't just give it to anyone, it's tagged directly to your itunes account.

[tiffac008]

Bro I think lending the games that I purchased with my hard earned cash should not have restrictions. I don't argue the benefits the developers or publishers can make out of this but I surely do not appreciate my option as a consumer limited when the gaming community has already made these guys rich and famous in the first place.

If it wasn't for borrowing games. I would never have known Uncharted, InFamous & Assassins Creed and my friends would never have known Lost Odyssey and Mass Effect and we have purchased our own copies since then. So I don't think its as bad as they claim to be.

[SquillieDeeWilliams]

@tiffac, what if you can share it with 10 people like they claim? Im cool with it

[baodeus]

@tiffy

so what is the difference between u signing into apple and use their apps offline vs signing into Clive and then play your game offline? If some how u forget to log in after 24 hrs, can't u just sign when want to play your game? the x360 is always connected to xlive already, so I don't see what is the problem here? They do need to check because u install the game to HDD and u can play without a disc. If they dont do this, how can they make sure that 100 people not gonna pitch in to buy one games and then share among themselves. It would be just like illegal torrent fiasco and that would be a disaster. It is a give and take situation where if u want moree conveniences and the corporate want to protect their own business and IP. like let say u have an IP, u dont want to protect it? IM pretty sure no ones like other to make money off of their IP while they get nothing. It is just common sense.

Go and read the copyrights on any game, music and movies and see if u have the right to copy, sell, or redistribute them even though u purchase it. You can't and it is illegal. The copyright has been around for ages, it isn't a new concept.

I understand that with such DRM restriction, people could make more conscious decision to purchase a game because it is expansive. But if they could go the route like Steam, also use DRM and check in, where u can get games for dirt cheap, i don't think people would mind it that much.. Regardless, the copyright did say that u have no right to copy, sell, or distribute them without authorization from the IP owner. U only bought the right to use it for your self and for yourself only. Look at all the big companies battling among themselves over IP right infringement

[tiffac008]

Sir you know thats debatable since there is the exhaustion doctrine under the first-sale doctrine. I know in the US there is a landmark case that is against 2nd hand sales of games. I think in the EU they are upholding this.

But I'm not even selling my games, I'm lending it to my friends (they don't number in hundreds). Not making any money out of it or trying to use it to become popular. So I doubt any court would find me guilty of copyright infringement.

And I don't live in a country where games become dirt cheap. It takes years for us to get a discount from retail over here. I ain't even debating the 24hrs check feature here because my internet is already bad, that it already acts an a 24 hr online DRM. Lol!

Seriously, the digital age is just around the corner, the need to restrict the movement of physical media from the customer side is no longer necessary.

[baodeus]

lending game to your friend is consider redistribution (it doesn't have to involve money to make it illegal). Let me clarify the copyright:

You do not have the right to copy, sell or redistribute the content (UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES) without the authorization from the IP owner.

Why people haven't got sue over this:
1. consumer are just small fries, why sue someone (for money purpose) when the reason that they sell and buy used games was because they couldn't afford it in the first place.
2. The rich people wouldn't care about selling games to cover for the new game wouldn't it?
3. If somehow u do get sue, Sony is not gonna be involve in this because it is you who infringe on the copyright (that sony also have in all of their music, movies, and games) not them, so why they have to worry. It is all on you.
4. If the MS went all digital as planned previously (since they at one time did send out survey asking if people still want disc medium support), they could have went the Steam route (dirt cheap games and all digital) because STeam is very successful. See it is about the price, not really about the owner ship of something. The PRICE govern everyone conduct (business and consumers).

Let look at it another way:

The recent uproar is about people were angry that they are loosing their OWNER SHIP of what they buy. Problem is, they don't read the copyright to fully understand what right they have with the thing that they bought, especially game, which is just a piece of plastic, in this case, not the software. The people who actually the TRUE OWNER of the IP are the developers and they also have an uproar back then about used game killing their profit. Their concern is actually legit because they are the actual OWNER of that game, not you. And here people were complaining thinking they own that IP and they can do what ever they want with it (just think of the all the torrent site, those college kids pitch together to buy stuff, they make copies then distribute them to everyone thinking because they previously bought something, they have the right to do whatever they want with it). Do u think torrent is legal?

Now do you see my point of view?

[tiffac008]

Sir it is still debatable under the law, not even the US constitution is clear cut about this because its in conflict with the exhaustion doctrine under the first-sale doctrine. You can check the history of cases about this. Its in wiki, you can even find the landmark case that is in favor of what your saying.

Until its finalize under the constitution that the exhuastion doctrine is moot against whatever copyright there is. I believe I have the right to share my games that I purchased with my money because it certainly didn't say for rent on the box.

Hey I'm on my last bub. I thank you and JeffGUNZ. Its great to have someone to discuss with, without the unnecessary hate. No matter how strong the opinions are.

[Theyellowflash30]

You're not convincing anyone MS. If you don't change your policies by this fall Sony and Nintendo are going to smoke you.

[Deathdeliverer]

Actually they convinced one person somehow, right jeffgunz?

[claterz]

"iPad or Surface. They've got a phone. These things connect; nobody thinks about them not. The first thing you do is log into your Wifi. If it wasn't logged in you couldn't even put apps on it if it didn't connect to the Wifi."

But I could still play all of the games and use most of the apps that I've paid for. Obviously you can't download apps without a connection, that's not what people are complaining about! These guys defending it are just idiots!

[Sadist3]

You can play games offline, because it only checks every 24 hours. But who the hell plays games offline? Who the hell has a smartphone but doesn't go online? Who the hell has a computer and isn't online at least once every 24 hours? This is the future get used to it, people are still living in the past. We live in a connected world now, this isn't 1994 anymore.

[despair]

Spoken like someone who lives in a first world bubble. I know dozens of persons personally who do not have internet or smartphones but own console systems and HDTVs. I personally have had my phone line ripped down by a truck and it took 8 months to bring it back up, so no internet for 8 months would mean no games for 8 months but my PS3 and X360 worked fine in that period.

The majority of people do not live in an always connected world, at least not one that functions like it should on paper.

[SquillieDeeWilliams]

Thats why they can keep using those systems or get a PS4 ( for 1st party titles)....

[SpinalRemains]

No DRM is 1994?

Stop deflecting and straw manning this.

We know what internet is and we know why they're forcing it.

Its not for convenience.
Its for fees, taxes and money and that does not help you.

[theaceh]

Why the 'daily check-in' thing is just stupid:

http://youtu.be/JwYUGtI6guY

[Sadist3]

You can't even post a comment if you aren't online. These idiots that are complaining are online now!

[despair]

Yea we complain because we know what happens when you add online DRM, now imagine the millions who can't complain because they don't have internet.

When the people with an active internet connection are the ones complaining(and its not a small number) you know things are bad.

[SpinalRemains]

Who's complaining about having the internet?

Di you even know what's going on all around you?

Lol its like you're 100% clueless as to the issue here.

[MRMagoo123]

who says some ppl arent using internet cafes or the library pcs you nob.

[tarbis]

don't go full retard.... oh wait. too late.

[just-joe]

Reason: Because Microsoft thinks everyone is stealing their games so now you have to check with them everyday so they know you're not a dirty filthy pirate.

[sashimi]

Pirates will just hack their console and keep it offline forever and play all their games without paying lol.

Treat everyone like a criminal and don't be surprised when people act like One :P

[just-joe]

Exactly, this only hurts law bidding gamers.

[SpinalRemains]

Gamefly is not a criminal enterprise.

Gamers who rent are not criminals.

MS screwed up so royally.

[Sadist3]

People don't want cell phones that just make calls, they want smartphones. People don't want TV's that just show what's on television, they want TV's that have multiple online functions. I don't want a game system that just play games, I want a game system that allows me to do more, like Skype and watch TV and Netflix while I'm waiting in a lobby of an online game. It's called evolution.

[FITgamer]

People don't want? You don't want. There are gamers who enjoy the simple life, live in rural areas, that don't have cable/satellite tv, no internet, land line phones that only receive phone calls, and don't own computers. When they aren't playing games they do things like...go outside and enjoy nature. I have a handful of gamer friends who fall into this category. Not everyone embraces all forms of technology nor should they. If everyone in this world just went with flow we would lose what little culture that we have. It's called preservation.

[MRMagoo123]

The ps4 can do all that stuff you mentioned any way plus its restriction free and cheaper and more powerful.

[KrisButtar]

This Guy seems like a moron to me, come on I have a cell but I dont have cell service when I'm home. I'm out a lot, shopping, working, visiting, etc. people need to be able to reach me. If the call my cell and can't reach me, its likely cause I'm home then they just call the house phone. Don't really think I would be taking Xbox One everywhere I go.

[despair]

Yea he is more delusional than I thought, either that or the PR team just couldn't come up with a plausible way to justify the connection. There is a huge difference to connecting your phone or tablet to a wifi connection and needing the internet to function.

[Tatsuya]

Phil, you're just shooting yourself in the other foot. Good god are you that delusional man?

[creeping judas]

Just out of curiosity, since I don't know. Will PS+ games work offline, and if so how long? Because I know everytime I download one, I get message stating the game is free to play as long as I keep my subscription up. So at what point will they become unplayble offline?

[Deathdeliverer]

When you download a PS+ game it is available for use on and offline until the date your PS+ would expire. Doesn't matter if you are online or not. When the day comes the game won't start because it expired. The expiration date changes if you extend plus. Go to a plus game and look at the details to see the due date.

[creeping judas]

Thanks!!

[buynit]

I get what ms is trying to do and i like it untill the part about not being able to play it at all if not checked in 24 hrs...

I get losing all the online functions but i cant play a single player game either? Seems like ms is just paranoid or something. If they want to be paranoid so can i, what if the u.s loses internet due to something unexpected?? And its for months or longer then what?

Drop the 24 hr or give it back rule and ill think about buying one.

[Roper316]

here's why it won't matter if I'm online or not, I bought a PS4 and won't even consider a XB1 until their ability to kill my single player campaigns is gone. Not internet no MP no problem, no internet no SP campaign BIG PROBLEM!

[dumahim]

Shut your smug looking piehole Phil Spencer.

[Goldenarmz]

His analogy about cell phone miss the mark. If i dont have wifi i can still USE THE PHONE. That is the point here, I dont need Cable service to use my tv, I don't need internet to use my PC, i don't need internet to use my Cell phone, and i shouldn't need internet to use my 500+ console. And if he thinks people who dont have internet dont play video games then he is totally out of touch with the market hes in.

[Nunchez]

Didn't even bother reading, if Sony doesn't have all these restrictions there's no reason why Microsoft should have them.

[MilkMan]

How else can XBone pay for those advertisements and make their partners money. Gotta make it mandatory when you are the cable company. In the meantime Sony stayed fixed on what I want. GAMES. The rest is all background noise.
Thanks Sony oh and that price cut is sweeter than lemonade on a hot summers day.

[swerve121]

To stop all the crying about DRM they should just make a Blackberry ,Android and IOS app to validate your system. If you dont have a damn cell phone that supports 1 of them your in the stone age

[MRMagoo123]

I know about 6 ppl without mobile phones that have consoles whats your point ?

[safsaan]

i think the loss of consumers, if any, will make microsoft focus on great games. just like sony in 2006.

[Britainz-Fin3st]

Wrong.
I do not have the internet at my house, as for that analogy, is he trying to say that people will buy a console that they cannot use because sometimes they might take it somewhere that does have internet?

IMO its the worse decision they have ever made.
I know plenty of 360 owners who only play offline.

And its looking to be a bit pricey now.

Monthly for your internet,xbox live, + the console...
Just so i can play a single player experience..

Its a joke.

I will be getting PS4 rather then this crap,

[AO1JMM]

"Any other device that you own, your library is digital. Frankly, if you're on the PC, or a Steam customer, or an App Store customer on iOS devices -- this is how you think about your library of content."

Except I DO NOT have to connect to the internet every 24 hrs with those. Phil are you a lil bit special?

"The first thing you do is log into your Wifi. If it wasn't logged in you couldn't even put apps on it if it didn't connect to the Wifi."

lets see here... connect to my "wi-fi" then download "app" then disconnect and use said app until the end of time never connecting again. YUP, that is a valid comparison Phil.

Do they think their customers are idiots?

[Tzuno]

you cant force people to do that. this is madness. wake the fk up MS.

[SquillieDeeWilliams]

Honestly folks , whats the big problem about checking in once a day? We know its to check the licensing, it probably happens in the background. Everyone in this forum is online right now, so you have internet (whether its on a cpu or smartphone). personally, i haven't used my 360 offline since the day i bought it, I prefer online. Did anyone see the Forza demo, the damn game plays when you not there, and its all because of the cloud. i 100% will be online all day everyday, and if my gaming experience is enhanced by it , then whats the problem?? Did anybody see Titanfall!!?? The clearly said "this game would be impossible to make without the cloud". Im all for it, Im excited to play Dead Rising with NO load time, I'm ready for persistent worlds, and living environments!!! Not too mention that PS4's exclusive line up was garbage, and everybody that watched that press conference thought the same thing, nobody that watched that was happy until they released the price point and no ddm (which is only first party btw). Just my thoughts, im sticking with Xbox for sure!!!

[NoobJobz]

That wasn't fanboyish at all......

For the most part, checking in once a day isn't an issue. Most of the time we are connected to the Internet. But, there are also times when we can't. Storms happen and electricity goes out or sometimes when you vacation there is no wifi. What then? You can't play. Again, I know that's not often but when it does, that sucks. Then there's a whole other issue with price but I'm not talking about that here.

[vigilante_man]

Even if you have the internet and are always connected you want the choice!

I can switch off Data & wifi on my smart phone and still use the apps/games that do not require the internet. It is MY choice.

Never, ever tell consumers what to do. Give them the choice!

[THC CELL]

Xbone is like probation check in.every 24 hours or you will go down.

[Bonerboy]

"I mean the analogy, and I don't know if it's a great analogy… let's say I live in an area that doesn't have cell service. I wouldn't go buy a cell phone."

No, its a good one Phil..... so on that note, "...let's say I want a console to play single player games and I really dont want to bother with online. I wouldnt go buy an Xbox."

And many years down the road when it is obsolete, I cant dig it out from my storage, dust it off and play it (like I can with every other console in history) because the internet "xboxone network" is no longer available, it will be a fucking $500 brick. Great! I'm sold.

Thanks for straightening that out for me Phil and for reaffirming my decision to NOT buy an xbox.

You and your fast talking, intentionally misleading, question dodging, retard MS lackeys can lick my taint. The constant insult to my intelligence, trying to dupe people into buying their "thing" by dodging/withholding direct answers regarding their certain policies? Dirty shiesty bastards. Blow me. Its a damn shame there are millions of idiots out there who will be fooled, but who am I to tell morons how to spend/waste their money? You will never see another penny from me.

[mediate-this]

its all coming back to me now, any one think that there is a third console curse? this whole drm thing is reminding me of sony telling people to get second jobs.

just seems weird

[xREAPERxACTUAL]

Do people really manually disconnect their console just to play offline or single player?

[MRMagoo123]

whats your point ?

[xREAPERxACTUAL]

Well when I game on my 360..it automatically signs in to my account with Xbox live, so my 360 is online and stays that way until I turn it off. So pretty much I'm always online anyways..but I get the impression from some of these comments that some people like to play offline..but does it really matter if you are online or not? A single player experience is the same experience whether you are online or not. I understand some people don't have internet service so I understand that side, but to the people complaining that they wanna be able to play offline when they clearly don't seem to have any connectivity issues.... I just don't understand why you would manually disconnect yourself from the internet?

[MRMagoo123]

I manually take my ps3 out of the net sometimes when i need the lead for another pc, right at this moment my ps3 isnt connected and hasnt been for maybe 2 months but my son can still get on and play little big planet, the thing is if this where the xbox one he wouldnt be able to do that(besides the fact LBP isnt on the xbox one)

[thecurseddevil]

Phil Spencer-that guy who is always on the losing side.

[TheFurryPanda]

This makes me sad. I really would have loved to have played Ryse, Dead Rising 3, and Titanfall. Looks like I'll be picking them all up years from now...

[SicilianGunner]

this is about piracy im sure.... they dont want people to burn their games and play for free.They cant be this stupid

[talisker]

Phil Spencer, you're a liar. Your DRM is not for software control but for data mining and spying on people with your ever-on camera.

After you install and activate a game with a code, there's no need to check it online again. Never, ever, again, until you want to install another game. Just like PC games work. The only reason to need a connection is to COLLECT YOUR PERSONAL DATA.

[steve30x]

Phil spencer and Microsoft can go to hell with their DRM

[Realplaya]

I have never bought an xbox and guess what I still won't be buying one.

[CRAIG667]

SONY FANBOY,PLAYS GAMES ONLINE = THINKS AN ONLINE CONSOLE IS STUPID!?

[steve30x]

Im a sony fan and my PS3 is only ever plugged in to the internet when a system update is available or a game update is available.

[CRAIG667]

Why?

[steve30x]

Because there's no pointy in having my PS3 connected to the internet when I don't use the online features

[CRAIG667]

ok then...