Xbox 360 Could Have Saved HD-DVD

Jimmy Xue from xuecast.com writes :

"Almost one million HD-DVD players were sold just before Toshiba pulled the plug on HD-DVD after losing support from the few movie studios and major retailers that had stayed with the HD-DVD camp when many others fled to Blu-ray.

What could have saved HD-DVD? many might have wondered, well I think that Built in HD-DVD player as a standard for the Xbox 360 could have done the trick."

[decapitator]

I agree with the author 100 percent. Microsoft were not in this to win IMO, they just wanted to give Sony a hard and delay BD victory. If they were really interested in winning a format war, they would have delayed their console and put HD DVD in it to really compete with the PS3.

[mighty_douche]

If they had included the HD drive, they probably would of released around the same time as the PS3 and at a much closer price point too. They would of gone down in flames, MS main objective was to bring their console to market first and hope to get as large an install base as possible, this shows in the reliablity of the early machines, rush job.

[decapitator]

Well they have not exactly 'succeeded' either way. I think they just never really had any plans for either HD DVD or BD. They were very serious about the whole digital downloading thing and give it some serious thought to it.

[ruibing]

I doubt the 360 would have been delayed, MS is really good at releasing products early before they should and then patch it up later. Vista with out SP1 can't even copy/move very large amount of files without stalling. WinXP didn't really become a good OS until SP2.

[TriggerHappy]

Well if they hadn't delayed it, I hate to see how long the 360 would have lasted because even without teh HD DVD, the first generation of Xbox 360's were not reliable at all and the problem isn't complete fixed up till now.

[BrianC6234]

It doesn't take an Einstein to figure this one out though. I've been saying this for a year. Microsoft should have waited six months to release the 360. They could have included an HD DVD drive in every 360 and then it would have been a real battle. But all they cared about was being out first. Six months would have meant a six month head start still. What exactly came out for the 360 in the first year worth playing? Not much from what I remember.

[lsujester]

Six months probably wouldn't have been long enough to give them much of a lead. The reason being that they still wouldn't have had anything resembling an real supply until later in the year. The first HD's were in the market that spring, and even then, not many could be made. With more diodes going to Blu-ray later that year, MS would have been stuck with shortages that entire six months.

[Brian5247]

Sorry.

[iAmPS3]

It couldn't save itself from being take over by the PS3, Wii AND PS2.

What a shame of a console.

[Phil Harrison Mk4]

Was xBox360 a console then??? ;-D
Thought it was a Lamp i.e a RED one!!!
RRoD
RRoD
RRoD
RRoD
(Love saying that!!!) ;-D

[mikeslemonade]

A built in HD-DVD would have killed the 360 too because it too would have been $600 at launch.

[HD DVD]

I used to be a child star!

[mighty_douche]

Yep, you and Britney :( Just that Britney out lived ya.

[heroman711]

mighty douche

lol nice one

[Kaz Hirai]

That's 2 DISGUSTING failures- the Xbox 360 and HD-DVD!
I have truly enjoyed DEMOLISHING both of them!

MWAH-HA-HA-HA!!!

[Spinner]

Sure it could, if M$ could see further down the road like Sony, but they can't and that's why the 360 has a DVD9 drive, gg.

[FirstknighT]

Well Hd-dvd was doomed from the beginning. Hd-dvd was cheaper to make than bluray and had equal picture quality, and in some cases better than bluray. But Sony owning almost every movie studio was the deciding factor. Clearly the creation of bluray was not made with the consumers in mind. Well atleast the format is over. Now let's work on bringing those bluray discs at a more affordable price.

[PimpHandStrong]

thats million more ppl coming over to Sony Kaz

congrats on the beatdown

[Clinton514]

No amount of salty tears or brainwashed bandwagoners could have saved the doom format.

[HarryEtTubMan]

Maybe right..... but not even Master Queef himself can save the Xbox 360 from its 35-40 million it will sale again this generation..... AND ITS SO TRUE

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHH AHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA

Suck it BOTS.

[kingnick]

Didn't the Xbox only sell ~25 million? If so how can the 360 sell 35-40 million again?

[kewlkat007]

It came down to Sony being business first and Finalization/features second.

This was was not Won by the consumers but on Business Tactics/Risk.

Not much HD-DVD could have done, even being cheaper to manufacture, Better features, at the time, and upgradeable through Ethernet port from the start, which was also a plus, for already established "DVD Bus lines".

It was all "Movie Studios" that wanted a strong grip on "Content Protection". Hey can you blame them?

I've move on now. when will I see Blu-Ray titles in the Bargain Bin at Walmart?..

[callahan09]

The primary reason that the 360 has been met with such success is that it hit the market a full year before the competition. Second, HD-DVD was not ready for retail when the Xbox 360 launched. This is a detail many ignore. If they wanted to include HD-DVD, the 360 would have been delayed the extra year, like the PS3 was.

If it had launched side by side with the Playstation 3, it wouldn't have done as well. Furthermore, if it had a built-in HD-DVD player, it wouldn't have been any significant amount cheaper than a PS3. So, the sequel to a mildly successful console for the same price, at the same time, as the sequel to the world's most monstrously successful console of all time? I think it's obvious what would have happened. Not only would HD-DVD still be dead, but in all likelihood the 360 would have failed right along with it, rather than having the success that it has had. No one year advantage, no price advantage? I don't think it would've worked. Microsoft made the right decision, and any other would have seen their console doing much worse than the PS3 right now. To them, their console is more important than the success of HD-DVD, obviously.

[callahan09]

Anybody who thinks that the 360 wouldn't have done worse if it launched side by side with the PS3 at the same price is a fool. Period.

And yes it is true that HD-DVD wasn't ready for the 360's launch. To include it WOULD increase the price, and it would have delayed the console. As I said: no price advantage, no timing advantage, no sales advantage, smaller installed base. The logic is sound.

[lsujester]

I do agree he's overlooking some things like the release dates and pricing. Sony barely had a launch when they did because of the diode shortages, and they were even making the things themselves. MS, however, would have had to buy them off of other companies, along with Toshiba, JVC, Pioneer, Plextor, etc. There wouldn't have been many to go around, so their near-simultaneous launch would have been with the same shortages, and insane pricings.

But, I don't think he's totally wrong in that things still might have turned out different in the format war. I think that it would likely STILL be going on right now if MS had waited to include HD-DVD.

[callahan09]

Actually Isu, I do agree that the format war would still be raging. If the PS3 and 360 launched at the same time at the same price, the 360 would still have done OK, but not nearly as well as it has done under the circumstances. It would have been in last place in sales instead of second, but it'd still be kicking, and with all the games being printed on HD-DVDs, that format would still be kicking too. So, yeah, the format would still be alive, but it'd be a perpetually sinking ship.

[mighty_douche]

I agree 100%. Bubbs....

[kewlkat007]

the Author is 100% Wong.

To tell you the truth he's making Assumptions/Hypotheses like you just did, if the 360 came out with HD-DVD as standard, barring there was no issues like Sony had with it's Diode problems.

Actually, maybe it might of swayed some studios, with the amount of Boxes, that would of saturated the market with the drives in them. But if Studios had their minds set on "protecting their benefits and the industry from Piracy" then they probaly would of gone with Blu-Ray in the long run.

With Sony's business Tactics/Risk and being there before with many failed formats, they did things the other way around to, to secure, what we have today, the winning format Blu-Ray.

[Horny Melon]

it launched a year early. Sony has always been on a 7 year console life span. And they originally announced the PS3 launch as 2007. It wasn't until Microsoft announced a 2005 launch that Sony bumped it up a year. And the only success the 360 has seen is the fact it launched a year early. Other than it's been plagued by every problem imaginable a console could have.

[lsujester]

You're probably right, but the only other thing I was thinking would be Microsoft's support for HD had they had a greater stake in it. Maybe they would have thrown a lot of money at Warner or other BD studios to get them HD-exclusive. Could have drug things on for a very long time, no matter what the install rate was.

But ah well.. it's over now, so we can all buy blu-rays the next big thing comes along.

[MiniMii]

You know, for the last year there hasnt been a day without idiotic xbots trying to blackball PS3 or some other corporate spinning.

Today is no other: another xbot fool trying to spin around facts.

HD DVD was dead from the start. Nothing could have saved it. Not Toshiba, not MS and certainly not 60% failure 360.

You idiots might spin news but the fact of the matter is, you bought the losing console and media. You didnt do your research and now it has come back to haunt you and your hard saved dollars. Well tough luck. In this world, where there is a winner, there's gotta be a loser. And you are it. The loser. Haha, just business as usual.

Nothing you say or spin will change the fact that HD DVD just like 360 is a goner. A sinker. A loser.

"but but but but butttt..."

STFU. There is no but. There are FACTS only. And fact is, Blu Ray had the PS3 brand, had the movies support, had the company support, had the marketing support and had the consumer support. EVERYONE knew HD DVD was a goner. It wasnt a matter of IF. It was WHEN was Toshiba gonna stop listening to idiotsoft and pull the plug.

There was nothing MS could have done to turn the tide or change the past. HD DVD was DEAD from the start and putting it with the 360 would make no difference. Oh wait, there is one difference= IT WOULD HAVE KILLED THE 360!

First of all, Sony had advantages that neither Toshiba nor MS has. Blu R is theres. And as such they were able to push PS3 and Blu R together. HD DVD isnt MSs. There was no way to get internal HD DVD without the advantages Sony has.

This would have meant that the 360 would have a higher failure rate due to imcompatibilities issues and the release date of the 360 would have been pushed back till 2007.

Both are unacceptable options for MS. The only advantage the 360 has over the PS3 is if it can get a year headstart to get an early advantage and then use dirty tactics aka MSs 2 billion media blackball to try and stop the PS3 momentum. Because once the PS3 is on the roll, the 360 does not stand a chance. Without the headstart, the 360 would not have the early 9 million userbase headstart which would mean that its doomed.

Furthermore, having a 300 dollar HD DVD device adding to the pricetag doesnt help either. The only reason why it sold 9 million in its first year was because of a group of dissatisfied gamers who were disgusted with the 600 PS3 pricetag. A 360 with a pricetag of 650 does not help move the console. If given the choice over a 600 dollar PS3 or a 650 dollar 360 that is inferior in every aspect, 99,999% of gamers will go for the PS3.

This means that the 360 will not even sell 9 million in its first year but the PS3 will easily sell 9M as we have all witnessed in 2007. Rather I doubt the 360 would even move 5M with a 650 pricetag, no other advantage over the PS3 and with stiffer competition and no headstart.

if that was the case, Toshiba might not have pulled the plug in January. HD DVD might have been prolonged for 6 more months however, it would have been MS pulling the plug on the 360 in Januari. There losses are over 6 billion in the gaming market and without headstart and higher pricetag, and 75% failure rate the 360 would have been nothing but a money sink. No profits would have been realized but rather another 2 billion dollar loss added.

Meanwhile HD DVD wouldnt win because Blu R is still having the higher install base, still has more studios and company backing it and still proof to be the consumers choice. Warner Brothers would have still picked Blu R over HD DVD because the PS3 still sold 4-5 million more than 360. And since MS pulled the plug on 360, there is no reason for Warner to not pick Blu R over HD DVD.

And this xbot fools, is why MS never waited and why they never included HD DVD. So you can STFU about the `what ifs`. No, MSs deal was to blackball the PS3 and use every means necessary to push the 360 including headstart and try to stop the PS3 momentum while Toshiba pushed HD DVD. They both failed. They never had a chance. All odds were against them. And most companies realized from the beginning that they never had a chance. Hence why most companies and studios were behind Blu R from the start.

MS isnt stupid, xbot idiots. They thought about this scenario before. And there is a reason why they never went this road.

Todays youth is just fking pathetic.
Always complaining, always badmouthing. How about STFU for a change and stop acting like a fking idiot. Lmao, in this world, you dont get second chances, fking crybabies. If you bought the wrong fridge, youre gonna stuck with that piece of crap. So next time think ahead before you buy a new console rather than just be the first, dumbasses.

You bought the wrong console. The losing console. And the dead ADD ON. And yes, that IS your fault. Nothing you say or spin, will change the fact that you didnt do listen to the millions on the net that said that PS3 and Blu R will win in the end anyway.

So guess who the fool is nowadays. Fking hell, you are the laughing stock. Yes you are. And you fking earned that title too. So be proud and dance around for us, boy. We want to laugh at the clown.

[permutated]

You know what's worse than Xbots?

People like you, who waste their lives typing long ass responses people don't read because they're full of bullsh!t and bias.

[TheMART]

Uhm... Who cares?

I buy a gameconsole for its GAMES. Not its movie capatibilities. There I buy standalone players for, so the drive/laser of my gaming console won't get earlier laser wearout effects of playing countless movies...

[MiniMii]

The xbot says he bought a console to play games!

Well here is shocker for you, xbot!

I DIDNT. Cos you see, I bought the fking console so I can PLAY GAMES AND WATCH HD MOVIES. Yes, that is also an option. The SUPERIOR option, I might add.

And millions, and I fking mean millions, are thinking just like me.

So play your stinkin games. Meanwhile, I play my games AND watch a movie now and then.

Hahaha

[XxZxX]

go ahead limit yourself with games. We bought an entertainment console that can do both.

Minimii, he's the same guy that talk about digital download movies and now look how much he flip-flop to just focus on games. NICE!!

[kingnick]

For once Mart actually makes a logical statement yet people bash him, N4PS3fanbois has become a joke.

[XxZxX]

I dunno how anything that come from @ss can be logical at all. Well are that how XBots behave now? Take crap as logical statement?

[ReBurn]

Hindsight is always 20/20, right? Could've, would've, should've.

[kewlkat007]

"But if Studios had their minds set on "protecting their benefits and the industry from Piracy" then they probably would of gone with Blu-Ray in the long run."

MS would of been in deep doo-doo

Success could of been much much Higher, only if they came out with the Xbox 360, when they launched and with the same price they debuted. Or you can play Devils' Advocate like callahan09.

But MS played it safe and they ..well "Didn't"

[ReBurn]

Oh, my comment wasn't in opposition of yours. I think people forget that HD-DVD was supported by Microsoft, but Microsoft didn't "own" the platform like Sony did Blu-ray.

My point is that I'm sure there are people that believe the outcome of HD-DVD would have been different if it were built-in to 360's. But nobody knows that for sure. Would things have been different? Probably. But only for the 360. And not in a good way.

[Horny Melon]

Microsoft didn't include it in the Xbox 360. Only the dellusional thought different.

[BlackCountryBob]

This is pure supposition and it is supposition expressed with extremely poor grammar too.

This article was not worth the time I spent reading it.

[PimpHandStrong]

is that why you are the biggest poster on this site.

When you combine you and your alter ego POG it seems like you might just care! Now that the year is 08 you want tell ppl they are fools for caring

why did u even post on this thread

get a grip

[Genki]

Tell us something we don't know, really.

Is this worth being here? This is only one of the biggest criticisms and complaints levied at the 360 since...you know...LAUNCH and all.

Guess what folks, the sky is blue.

[mighty_douche]

I live in the UK, the sky is GREY!

[beoulve]

at least it's not purple.

[Genki]

it's orange, HAPPY!?

[XxZxX]

Could have? If XBOX 360 added HD-DVD in their system and made them $499 and nobody will buy XBOX 360, everybody will fly to PS3 instead.
XBOX 360 not only will face delay, they also can't compete with PS3 with the same pricepoint since PS3 has such huge brand name. Hey even MS are pretty well-awared of this,damn those guy who is trying to be smartalec.

[heyheyhey]

it would have been a shame

Blu-Ray is the more advanced format anyway- it has a higher capacity and a much higher theoretical capacity

it also has better security and protection from scratching

it would have been a shame to see an inferior format win and hold back potential

[kewlkat007]

Wasn't BETAMaX more superior, did it really matter for a generation of consumers?

The victory was not due to any technical superiority (Betamax is arguably a better format) but didn't win for whatever reason , I was not born then lol.

It happens all the time, "Not always the superior Product" is adapted by the Masses/Majority.

[Nathaniel_Drake]

Superior in quality yes, superior in quantity no, Betamax I think has shorter amount of tape compared to VHS

Blu-ray has theoretical higher quality and higher quantity so comparing these two generations is a win-win according to your logic

The big boom for VHS was porn adoption, so what was the big boom for blu-ray?

There are many reasons, I think a huge one had to be the security issues which reading one of the articles today is already busted into, but still at that time that was a good reason

I am very interested for other reasons if y'all have any

[kewlkat007]

How so? I really do not think the average consumer would of picked blu-ray because of quality. Like I said, it wasn't even decided by them IMO. This format has not really been adapted yet by the masses.

My point was some times the best product is not adapted by the masses,[for whatever reasons], Now I fail to see yours?

Research betamax vs vhs.

[Nathaniel_Drake]

"Sony, being the first producer to offer their technology, thought it would establish Betamax as the leading format. This kind of lock-in and path dependence is exactly what economists point out as the Betamax weak link."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

Remind you of someone, HD-DVD

Anyway, Blu-ray was chosen because from the outset the movie companies supporting Blu-ray were many compared to a small amount for HD-DVD, Sony knew this time around to come to the table with a new format they had to be ready

"What Sony didn't take into account was what the consumers wanted. Sony believed that having better quality recordings was the key to success, whereas it soon became clear that consumer desire was focused more intently on recording time and compatibility for easy transfer of information."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

So I was right in one of the reasons VHS was chosen by the consumer was quantity not quality, what I was referring to when I was talking about Blu-ray vs HD-DVD was just this fact

"Sony with Betamax thought that quality would be the best factor for consumers, but they were wrong, so again they came prepared with their new format Blu-ray, not only with more production companies but a medium with more room"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

Your main argument was not superior quality wins all the time

Your inferior picture quality, VHS, had more recording time something the consumer had as a "superior" reason to adopt it

So let's take that superior reason and put it together with an inferior reason to buy the product, the picture quality

What you get is the Blu-ray, and because it was out later than HD-DVD it needed some updates to catch up with it and now try to surpass it

So that's what I was trying to say, sorry for the long post, but I had to cover some bases =)

[kewlkat007]

Come on bro, that format war went like 10 years...

my point again has nothing to do with quality.. I said

"some times the best product is not adapted by the masses,[for whatever reasons], Now I fail to see yours?"

Best product not just best quality. VHS won for a lot of simple reasons with cheaper pricing, big movie catalogs, porn of course and such, kid is wasn't because of recording length.

Sony even created a super Betamax which was more superior and it didn't help. By that time Laser technology was around the corner.

[Nathaniel_Drake]

There were many reasons for Betamax not to be adopted by the masses, one of them was recording time, Sony fixed that with Blu-ray having higher room, the porn adoption is moot now because the internet has taken over that

The difference in this war is the more expensive medium won, the best product won, hence the cancellation of HD-DVD, and with the Trojan horse of the PS3 something that wasn't a factor in the old format war its a bit different, so its harder to say the best product doesn't always win in this case

I know a good amount of time the best product doesn't always win, but it has in Blu-ray vs. HD-DVD, that's the point I am trying to make, and if you read my post I said "One of the reasons, not "the" reason.

I know about the VHS/Betamax format war and I lived through some of it owning a older than life Panasonic VHS

[aiphanes]

Can we say 50 GBs?
can we say higher bitrates for both sound and video?
Can we say, there is no way to scratch a bluray disc because of the protective coating?

Price for bluray and HD-DVD discs are the same...about $5 to $10 more than a DVD...and the price is now comming down for bluray movies...they will be about the price of a DVD in about a year...i am talking movies you can buy in the store. Everybody in the sun will start making bluray players in the next year...and the price for a cheap one will be less than $100 during Christmas 2009. The PS3 will be $249 by Christmas 2009...heck $299 by Christmas 2008.

Its actually over for the Xbox 360 after this year...once the PS3 gets down to the Wii price next year...its over for the wii too.

Sony is in it for 10 years..

Netflick with hook up with Sony and push movies through the PSN network...if that happens it over for Microsoft and Xbox live.
Notice I said if...

All microsoft can do is get their hardware solid in the next version of the Xbox...and revamp Xbox live. The Xbox live interface will look like the 1980s when the final version of HOME comes out...The Wii interface is already the 1980's.

Once people start to play some 50 Gb bluray games, MGS4, Final Fantasy 13, and Resistance 2, and Motorstorm 2...they will see how dated than the DVD9 format is in the Xbox 360 and Nintendo wii.

A 50 Gb game will never happen on the Xbox 360...not even a downloadable one.

People need to face it...its over...there is no way gears of war 2 will be better than Resistance 2.

[maxqubit]

.

[ScentlessApprentice7]

Could of.

Would of.

Should of.

But Didn't.

Time to move on people.

[Megaton]

If they had put the HD-DVD drive in standard, they would have released later, and bumped their price up to be nearly identical to that of the PS3, thus losing the price point and early release advantages.

Without those two things, who's to say they'd be ahead of the PS3 in sales today?

[novaIS350]

Xbox COULD HAVE, but it did not. Whose fault is that?

[OJ_juice]

It would be tough to say who would have won. Though a build-in hddvd drive would be good for winning the format war, the 360 would have been the same price as the ps3. We all know what 600$ price tag does to a console. it's not pretty.

[IzKyD1331]

wow, this article just states what other analysts have been saying for the past 5 months (but this one has bad grammar)

[jlemdon]

would've been successful if there were games on it for the 360.

[AngryTypingGuy]

If the 360 had built in HD-DVD, then it most definitely would be winning the console war.

Would've, could've, should've, however. It's for the best. BluRay is the superior format. Next generation, when there will be a greater need for higher capacity discs, everyone will be glad that we're using BluRay discs, which can store more than HD-DVD discs. Ah, if only we could use HVD discs, which hold up to 3.9 terabytes. That'll be the day...

[permutated]

Who the fu*k cares? it's DEAD.

Thank heavens.

[tudors]

Simple as that, IMO both formats could have existed in harmony, the film industry could have raked it in, seriouly though can anyone give me a key reason why both formats could not have survived.

If 3 nextgen games consoles can survive then why not the HD format, the film companies could have offered timed exclusives.

[MiniMii]

There was absolutely NOTHING that MS could have done to save HD DVD.

There was nothing MS could have done to turn the tide or change the past. HD DVD was DEAD from the start and putting it with the 360 would make no difference. The only change then, was that it would have dragged the 360 down with it.

First of all, Sony had advantages that neither Toshiba nor MS has. The most important one of course is that Blu R is theirs. And as such they were able to push PS3 and Blu R together. HD DVD isnt MSs. There was no way to get internal HD DVD without the advantages Sony has late 2005.

This would have meant that the 360 would have a higher failure rate due to imcompatibilities issues and the release date of the 360 would have been pushed back till 2007.

Both are unacceptable options for MS. The only advantage the 360 has over the PS3 is if it can get a year headstart to get an early advantage and then use dirty tactics aka MSs 2 billion media blackball to try and stop the PS3 momentum. Because once the PS3 is on the roll, the 360 does not stand a chance. Without the headstart, the 360 would not have the early 9 million userbase headstart which would mean that its doomed.

Furthermore, having a 300 dollar HD DVD device adding to the pricetag doesnt help either. The only reason why it sold 9 million in its first year was because of a group of dissatisfied gamers who were disgusted with the 600 PS3 pricetag. A 360 with a pricetag of 650 does not help move the console. If given the choice over a 600 dollar PS3 or a 650 dollar 360 that is inferior in every aspect, 99,999% of gamers will go for the PS3.

Most fanboys will probably flame me by now but thats just the ugly truth. PS3 comes with HDMI, WIFI, Blu R, CELL, SIXAXIS, RUMBLE, HDD, 1080P support and more. 360 lacks in EVERY department. Not fanboyism. Just pure facts.

This means that the 360 will not even sell 9 million in its first year but the PS3 will easily sell 9M as we have all witnessed in 2007. Rather I doubt the 360 would even move 5M with a 650 pricetag, no other advantage over the PS3 and with stiffer competition and no headstart.

if that was the case, Toshiba might not have pulled the plug in January. HD DVD might have been prolonged for 6 more months however, it would have been MS pulling the plug on the 360 in January 2008. Their losses are over 6 billion in the gaming market and without headstart and higher pricetag, and 75% failure rate the 360 would have been nothing but a money sink. No profits would have been realized but rather another 2 billion dollar loss added.

Meanwhile HD DVD wouldnt win because Blu R is still having the higher install base, still has more studios and companies backing it and still proof to be the consumers choice. Warner Brothers would have still picked Blu R over HD DVD because the PS3 still sold 4-5 million units more than 360. And since MS pulled the plug on 360, there is no reason for Warner to not pick Blu R over HD DVD.

And this is why MS never waited and why they never included HD DVD. They arent stupid. This scenario has been weighted by MS. They picked the best option they had. MSs deal was to blackball the PS3 and use every means necessary to push the 360 including headstart and try to stop the PS3 momentum while Toshiba pushed HD DVD. They both failed. They never had a chance. All odds were against them. And most companies realized from the beginning that they never had a chance. Hence why most companies and studios were behind Blu R from the start.

MS isnt stupid, there is a reason why they never went this road.

This analysis is 100% supported by the facts. Only easy people will think that HD DVD would have won if it was included. As if the world is simply that simple, simply that easy. There are many factors to be taken into account. To say that HD DVD would have won if it was included, is in reality uninformed thinking or fanboys trying to comfort their broken hearts.

[tudors]

You mention al these things "HDMI, WIFI, Blu R, CELL, SIXAXIS, RUMBLE, HDD, 1080P"

PS3 did not come with rumble included, Xbox-360 does 1080P, the Cell is still in it's infancy, ofcourse Bluray is more attractive now the format war is won, WIFI totally agree with you, HDMI is now standard on all Xbox-360's but I agree it should have been there from the start, the bottom line is that I purchased my Xbox-360 for games and it does this very well.

on another note MiniMii maybe you would like to tell me why some PS3 games need an install?

I will own a PS3 because it does have a lot going for it but you are just plain 'bias', Xbox-360 is the new kid on the block but somehow owned 2007 with quality games in abundance yet people like yourself seem to choose to ignore this.

"To say that HD DVD would have won if it was included, is in reality uninformed thinking or fanboys trying to comfort their broken hearts."

Sorry mate but this comment is just purely your opinion.

You started off with "21 - So yea, like I explained in the open zone"

This tells me you try very hard to force your opinion but nobody cares.

[lsujester]

Tudors:

Don't get me wrong, I'm not agreeing with all of his rantings, but some of his arguments you tried to trash do make sense.

He's talking about the two systems theoretically launching together, and the price/value equations. MS wouldn't have 1080p, because MS did mandate for quite a while that all games would be in 720p, so even though the 360 CAN do 1080p, we weren't seeing it. HDMI and Wi-fi have always been therefor the PS3, and not with the 360. So what we would see is two similarly priced systems with different hardware levels trying to launch together. That was what he was getting at, not the hardware as we see it now.

So yeah, I'm not saying he's entirely accurate, but there is some logic behind a part of his rantings.

As for the PS3 install, it's just something Capcom is doing. It actually makes the load times go bye-bye, at the expense of 20 minutes at the beginning. If MS would have included an HDD in every 360, Capcom would have likely done it on them, too. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if we start seeing more of that in the upcoming years with consoles. They are, after all, little PC's when you look at them in terms of hardware.

[lsujester]

Oh yeah... MiniMii: Even though like two or three of your arguments made some kind of sense, you are still an idiot.

Toshiba owns HD, and is partnered with MS for it's software. Had MS wanted HD-DVD, they'd had full access to it and Toshiba's technical support. So there wouldn't be any higher failure rate, and could have launched alongside the PS3, not in 2007.

There is no way the 360 would have been more expensive than the PS3, although it would have been closer in price. MS could have taken a little more loss with the 360 in order to price it cheaper, and likely would have done so. The CELL processor alone was adding a good chunk of price to the PS3... the 360's processors are cheaper, but still powerful. The rest of the hardware is comparable, and the lack of Wi-fi would save MS some money.

And there is one thing that you're are undoubtedly forgetting: the games. MS has paid for some great games for the 360. Gears of War, Mass Effect... Halo 3. Halo especially is a guaranteed system-seller. Now, I'm not a huge fan of Halo, but I can see the effect it's had. People love it, and will pay whatever for it. That means many millions of 360's being sold just to be the Master Chief.

So, all in all... we'd see a much different console and format war had the 360 adopted HD-DVD. But your ideas of MS being blown out of the water because of it are just stupid.

[Master of Menace]

Even if the 360 had HD-DVD built in, you wouldn't be able to hear the movies anyways. It's too frickin loud! Ha!

[Citizen Cook]

It Could ahve won. But M$ didn't care about either. End of story.

Now, lets all talk about how Betamax could have beaten VHS!

But for the record, HD-DVD was better than Blu-Ray. It was cheaper, region free, faster to load, and actually released in a completed state. Blu-Ray is still fu(ked up.

HA HA HA HA!

[Master of Menace]

I think I can hear violins playing somewhere! Come on, Blu-ray gave HD-DVD a head start. They even delayed the PS3 and put up it's prices just to give it a chance. You can't get much more sporting than that!

[flappo]

precisely why people are buying macs and don't trust ms anymore

unlike ms , apple won't go blu ray and leave their customers in the lurch

ms don't care about anyone except their big shareholders ( bill and co. basically )

[jinn]

microsoft needs to pay more attention to the charts and stop relaxing too much

[jlemdon]

I think if MS was thinking of putting games on the HD-DVD ppl wouldn't have no choice but to get it for there favorite game.

just like PS3 did with Blu-ray.

[decapitator]

New take: could've, Should've but didn't. Period.

[applenplum]

microsoft wanted everyone to support hd-dvd but it didn't put up as much effort as sony on it's own side.