Major Nelson clears up some 1080p questions.

In his latest blogcast, Major Nelson interviews Albert from Xbox about the upcoming 1080p update for the XBox 360.

[TheMART]

Nice. For the graphic whores, not for me. And the Sony fanboys that will run over now:

1080p Native games will come

all 720p games are upscaled to 1080p

There stays the 720p sweet spot where framerate, resolution and all just comes together on this gen. FOr PS3 also. But if you want to, you can. PS3 will have 720p which won't be upscaled to 1080p as far as I know, there are few that will though.

1080p most time: graphics lower, but framrate higher. Like Resistance compared to COD. Gears of War stands out on 720p, so much more richness and detail then Resistance.

And indeed this guy is right. Every HDTV has a VGA port. Even if copyright stuff won't do 1080p through component (and there are TV's that do just actually display it was found out by testing!) it'll always display video through VGA in 1080p.

And like we all know, the 360 has a digital port. If there is enough demand for HDMI, they'll release the cable.

This all sounds really, really good for the graphic whores that thought it was an advantage from the PS, in the end it isn't. So now just choose on the games instead of overhyped features!

[Antan]

Are you having a Steffi Graf ????????????

[kewlkat007]

I don't care for 1080p.......I'll probally own a 1080p set in like 5 years or so.

[dantesparda]

Then you shouldnt care about this news then (the 360 getting 1080p)

[Brian360]

I purchesed a VGA cable to compare the difference between componant.
The colour is all washed out.
For me the best quality is through component,unless m$ release a HDMI cable and or DVI cable

[TheMART]

Play a little with the colour changing on the TV and you'll be fine. And then get the HDMI cable spring 2007. It'll be there by then

[dantesparda]

Here we go again with the stupidity, because his TV is more colorful than his monitor, he assumes that, that is the case for everybody. Component video is not better than VGA, period! I dont care if you think so, or it looks that way on your TV. It is a fact! So stop with all the opinionated nonsense. Cuz if thats the case, then I can sit here and say that I think my Xbox1 looks better than my 360, because of "this and that"

[Brian360]

I'm actually trying VGA and component on my 32" HD TV and the colour looks washed out compared to component at the same resolution,and there is no colour control when using VGA on my TV

[zonetrooper5]

I'm using a PC montior and the VGA cable and it looks amazing on the xbox 360. Its better than when it was on the TV through component.

[StrongerCypher]

Will the60 be able to do 1080p over component or not. I am confused. I thought they said it could. If not this is just a waste of time for me.

[DJ]

"HDTVs use a fair amount of circuitry and processing power to decode incoming signals before displaying an image on the screen. Because HDMI has long been planned to be 'the connection' for HD signals, most manufacturers have built 1080p HDTVs that are only able to accept 1080p via HDMI. Consequently, only a few 1080p capable HDTVs support 1080p signals via Component connections, which are generally restricted to 1080i. A few more 1080p HDTVs will accept an analog 1080p signal via VGA, but often only with the addition of a VGA-to-DVI dongle. To put it simply, trying to work with 1080p without HDMI is very difficult."
http://xbox360.ign.com/arti...

Basically the 360 does output in 1080p for games through both Component and VGA, but for movies it's 720p over Component and 1080p over VGA. However, both are analog connections so when HTCP is implemented the HD-DVD add-on is going to have its image downscaled from 1080p to 540p.

Most HDTV's don't support 1080p over component; that's the biggest problem. And I haven't seen an HDTV with VGA inputs, only DVI inputs (adaptors are available, luckily). You can start to see why Sony decided to put HDMI ports in both PS3 SKUs.

[andy capps]

I'm not an Xbox guy, but I believe it will. The question is whether any 1080p will accept a native 1080p signal through component. I don't know of any. I don't know of any currently out that will accept a native 1080p signal through VGA either, they may downscale to 720p and then re-upscale to 1080p. I know that the Sony TV that I'm getting will only accept up to 720p via it's VGA input and will not upscale to 1080p. So you'll basically have the image not fill up the whole screen. The way around this is to convert it from VGA to HDMI which is then resolved just fine. But it's still an annoying thing that they should have thought about. Maybe it can be fixed in a firmware update, or you can just get a VGA to HDMI converter.

theMART- I'm pretty sure that it's been confirmed a long time ago that the PS3 will upscale 720p games to 1080p, as well as the old PS1 and PS2 games. Upscaling on the console doesn't matter anyway, because if you have a 1080p set, it should scale all 720p signals to fit all 1080p pixels on the screen. Upscaling via PS3 or 360 doesn't really matter if your TV can do the same thing, but I guess it's good talking points for Sony and MS.

[TheMART]

May I add something:

So Sony decided to put HDMI ports in the console, but delivers them with a composite cable?

Strange where True HD starts isn't it?

In addition to that: Sony wasn't every was and has to pay extra money to put in extra ports.

MS is smart and get's one DIGITAL outport. Where they can connect whatever they want. Now the standard cable with component and composite + DD fiber. Ofcourse the VGA cable is there and spring 2007 the HDMI cable. Cost effective, future proof when you need it. That means: when you DECIDE to buy HD-DVD and if BR may become the standard there will be a BR player. That's the time you'll need 1080p (if your TV displays it, which probably won't but be 720p at max) or 720p from the videosource.

Before that you'll be fine with this setup. Having 1080p upscaled or native games running through the component just fine (or 720p/1080i if you don't have a TV of 4000 dollars which I guess every PS3 owner will buy if I read their posts. not)

and @ ANdi

I didn't hear about PS3 upscaling ALL 720p games, really. Furthermore the upscaling can better be done by 360. The TV might slow down just depends on the quality of the hardware.

People could get different quality then. So I prefer 360 upscaling, as PS3 fans prefer the PS3 to do it also if it does

[DJ]

With a console that's being sold at almost a $200 loss, including a $100 HDMI cable that can only be used by a minority of TV owners would be foolhardy. You simply can't expect it.

Most people own SDTVs, so including composite cables seems like the right idea. It's gives consumers choice! The ultimate Microsoft idea. =]

Actually, the reason I don't mind is because I'm planning on buying Component Cables from Monster anyway. My HDTV only goes up to 1080i so there's no reason for me to ever use an HDMI cable. If it was included in the PS3 it would completely worthless to me. I think they should include component cables though since not everyone wants to go out and buy brand versions, but it's understandable why they didn't. The PS3 system has settings for visual output which automatically instruct it to upscale anything of smaller resolution to 1080p, should that setting be selected.

BTW, it's funny how you state that the 360 can upscale better than the PS3. Got any proof to back up that wild claim?

[andy capps]

It doesn't bother me that the PS3 doesn't come with HDMI cables, I'll just get one online for less than $10. I'll be using it with a Sony 1080p native TV, so it will be worthwhile for me to have the HDMI output. But for most people, in DJ's situation (and theMART from your posts) then component cables are probably the way to go, and buying good component cables like DJ is doing is probably the way to go in that situation. Any component cables bundled with the PS3 would be crap as they would be cheap, but for HDMI it won't matter if you get a cheaper cable as it's a digital connection. As long as the signal is unbroken, it doesn't matter if you have a $10 HDMI cable or a $100 cable.

theMART- Don't understand why you'd prefer the Xbox 360 upscaling to 1080p over the PS3 upscaling 720p games to 1080p, upscaling is upscaling. And about the TV's and upscaling, the only ones that may cause a problem with is some of the Samsung DLP's, but even those have had the problem eliminated from what I have read. Most TV's these days have a gaming option where it will turn off the additional signal processing for different effects, but I don't even think that is needed on any of the current TV sets as they seem to be ok with upscaling signals just fine.

[Dusk]

I have read in several places that HTCP has been postponed to around 2011. It's really a non factor at this point.

[PS360PCROCKS]

Hmm that's cool that 1080P can be done over VGA, and HDMI is not necessary for 1080P games and movies. It's cool that certain 1080P TV's have component and it can actually work over that connection. I think it's cool that all Microsoft had to do was grab a 1080P TV and write some software and make it capable, it shows how flexible the console is. I like the part where he talks about the trade-offs of 1080P to 720P, and that being you take away some of the graphic/texture fidelity? (think is what he referred to it as) and increase the frame rate which makes total sense to me that if you make one thing better, they have to downgrade another aspect, so as it very well may be true, I would much rather see my game in 720P at 30 FPS than 1080P at 60FPS if the games going to look much more colorful and detailed at the lower resolution. He also refers to GOW against RFOM and how Gears has much better color and richness and textures which I agree with fully, I always thought resistance looked kind of bland personally, oh and this is only an opinion of me, so no bashing, just state reasoning why you don't believe my comments, cause I come back and read this stuff later and I don't need a fanboyish comment after mine

[PS360PCROCKS]

"Specifically, I anticipate Sony will be able to sell upwards of five million units in the US between November 19th and December 31st, counting pre-orders. This is unprecedented, largely because no console maker has succeeded in making so many available at launch, but Wii has the buzz that Sony lacks at the moment. Microsoft has the disadvantage of already being a little bit old as a system (no launch this year), still with no Halo, and currently having a lull in extraordinary software."

I found this on a website of a guy trying to give some rational thinking into what he "believes" and well this moron obviously lives in fantasy land if he thinks "Sony will be able to sell upwards of five million units in the US between November 19th and December 31st"

Lol wow the idiocy of people in this world, they try so hard to sound intelligent, they sound just plain moronic

P.S. if people don't notice what's wrong with what he said in case you read it quickly, he thinks the Ps3 will sell 5,000,000 consoles by new years, ok buddy

[kmis87]

5 million is a ridiculous number. Where could that guy have gotten that? Sony says that they're hoping to sell 2 million this year and 6 million by the end of March.

[TheMART]

Yeah it's 500k from 17 nov. to holidays. They won't be able to put out 2 mln. when they only manage to get out 500k starting to produce beginning of this month.

6 million by march when they only can do 500k in about 2 months? Count with me. They need then about at least 1.5 mln produced a month. 500k now produced in 1,5 to 2 months. They have to triple production to be able to get there.

Impossible with diode shortage and Cell breaking down numbers.

Too bad though in the podcast they don't mention the HDTV's that do 1080p video through component though.

It whould be interesting to know although I guess it's not Samsung (their hardware partner with the HDTV's) but another brand they don't mention because of this partnership.

Maybe someone knows by his own findings? Post it here!

[PS360PCROCKS]

Lol exactly why I posted this comment, I don't where the hell this guy got this 5 million sold number by new years, lol I laughed so hard I felt I needed to share it

[testerg35]

Thought latest Kaz interview now mentioned only 1mil.

[nuclearnipple]

ive just forked out for a new 1080i tv and ill be buggered if ill change it before the holodeck from startrek is commercially availiable

[tatical]

Native 1080p over Component - supports games only (The HDTV must also support 1080p over Component).

Native 1080p over VGA - supports both games and movies (All HDTVs have a VGA input).

*1080p Movies over component are BLOCKED (downscaled to 540p or 1080i) because of copy protection.

*Some HDTVs don't list 1080p over component as a feature, but when tested, they displayed 1080p over component anyway.

[PS360PCROCKS]

Really? Obviously you are confused, because movies over component are not downscaled to 540P, it's 1080i and their not going to be downscaled because the copy protection is not in place and not being used, in the interview if you listen, Microsoft doesn't care because they don't think it will be in place by atleast 2009 if ever, the guy states that Universal and other studios know this and that if they did do this they would be alienating people who had bought a Xbox 360 and the Hd-dvd add-on, people who like me don't have an HDTV with VGA inputs

[tatical]

xbox360rocks,
540p & 1080i have the same amount of pixels on the screen at any given time.

(540 x 2 = 1080)
540p x 2 = 1080p
1080p / 2 = 1080i

540p = 1080i

"it's 1080i and their not going to be downscaled..."

HD-DVD movies are 1080p on the disc, if movies aren't downscaled, why do you say that they'll be displayed at 1080i?

When people start making pirated copies of HD-DVD/Blu-Ray movies, the copy protection WILL be activated.

[NextGen24Gamer]

From your comments, I can tell you didn't listen to the pod cast. I'm not going to go into all your false statements...Because pretty much your wrong all the way through. But listen to the pod cast and get informed about 1080p/vga/hdmi ect.... Graphical fidelity vs frame rates vs 1080p vs 720p. You need to get informed buddy. Because you have it all backwards...

[PS360PCROCKS]

Wait, i'm misinformed or the other guy? I am confused?

[Marriot VP]

All I can say is, I want VGA prices to drop down to 20-30, than I'll buy one for upscaling DVD's. That's where it's at.

Next gen DVD drives aren't for me for the next year atleast.

[NextGen24Gamer]

Not you. DJ and a few other sony fanboys. If they would listen to the podcast they would understand a little better on how the whole vga/hdmi/1080p/720p/ works. They also said that the games announced for the ps3 that are in 1080p have trade off's. He mentioned that Resistances at TGS was not nearly as detailed and pretty to look at as Gears of War. Sure its in 1080p but when they do that they have to take away from frame rates and graphics fidelity. There are trade offs to using that resolution. Thats why Sony reps have even gone on record to say that some 720 games look better than 1080p games. sony fans need to get informed.

[DJ]

You'd realize that everything I've stated about the 360's output capabilities (and other aspects) is true. In fact, it's straight from the mouths of Microsoft. If you don't like the facts go cry to them, not me.

I'm not sure what trade-offs you're talking about since Factor 5 said that changing Lair's output from 720p to 1080p didn't have any impact on the performance of the game. Resistance keeps improving in the visual department week after week, and to solely take the word of a Microsoft representative about the performance of a PS3 title is very questionable. While there's nothing wrong with completely ignoring the media and only listening to the console company you're loyal to, it would behoove you to be a little more open-minded with these topics.

[Donkey Slayer]

Xbox's Director of the Game Technology Group, Scott Henson: "I think 1080p, just to address that directly, will be basically impossible."

Director of Technical Strategy for Xbox Live Andre Vrignaud: "In fact, I'll stick my neck out and predict that that you won't see any 1080"x" games for the PS3 this year."

[Mikey_Gee]

.. with the new 1080p update the current DVD drive in the 360 will UP-CONVERT my regular DVD's ???

Or do I need the HD-DVD drive in order to have the regualar DVD's upscalled.

"PLEASE ANSWER ONLY IF YOU TRUELY KNOW"

[NextGen24Gamer]

But you have to have a vga cable to get the upscaled 1080p for any movies. Games can do 1080p with the componant cables. Movies can only do 1080i with componant cables.

And for DJ. The only reason sony is pushing for a few 1080p games is to give sony rabid fanboys something to brag about. But even sony reps themselves said that some games look better in 720p. Interesting isn't it. Why would they say that? Well, because there are trade offs when you make a game in native 1080p. Developers just have to figure out if its worth it for what they are trying to accomplish. But anyone who has seen the game play video of resistance can clearly see the graphics look flat and the detail on the ground and walls are poor. But at least its in 1080p right? There are trade off's. But of course you would believe a sony dev over common sense right? ha ha ha

[Mikey_Gee]

Thanks ..

I figured it would, and I DO have the VGA cable so that is NICE !!

I was going to go out and buy and upscalling DVD player ... I guess I don't need to now.

THanks again MS