KojiPro explains Twin Snakes’ exclusion from Metal Gear Solid HD Collection

Kojima Productions’ Sean Eyestone explains why Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes was excluded from the remastered compilation, Metal Gear Solid HD Collection.

[Irishguy95]

Shoulda stuck it in anyway http://www.youtube.com/watc...
Suppose it had some new stuff in it too though (MGS2's mechanics)

[I_LOVE_MYSELF]

Would have been nice to see it included. I don't know why this game gets so much hate. Sure the game wasn't intended to use the new gameplay mechanics and it made the game a tad too easy and sure the music and cut scenes are not as good as the original in my opinion, but it was a JOY to see MGS1 with them visuals. The game was still a lot of fun. It just wasn't as ground breaking as the first, but it didn't need to be.

[Baka-akaB]

I dont think its hate , it was very well done , but the only positive seems to be the new graphics .

it run slower sometimes (a few rare but documented minor slow downs that dont kill the game) , is easier and other changes arent always popular , so i dont see why tempt fate with a title not everyone wants in a definitive collection .

Again i'd rather see a remake that keeps the rest in spirit or intact

[PoSTedUP]

i would rather have this than MGS2. i didnt like playing as raiden. snake just makes the game. and also disappointed in no PW for vita... hey kojima i'd buy a Peach Walker HD remake for the vita for $40 ; ) *hint* *hint*

[MaxXAttaxX]

Twin Snakes lacked original voice actors from MGS1 and the music wasn't as good.

[Kaizin514]

@Nathan

Umm... Twin Snakes had the exact same cast, just re-recorded. And I'm pretty sure same goes for music. When they tried to up convert the audio from the original, they heard background noise such as vehicles. English recording back then for dubs wasn't exactly recorded in high tech rooms.

However, I loved Twin Snakes. Although I am still with many, it was more for freshness and graphics over added mechanics. Plus the occasional slowdowns hurt it. I would have liked to see it added though, at least for those who never played the first.

[MaxXAttaxX]

Hmm I'd rather have a remake still.

[coolman229]

@NathanExplosion

Actually no. Some characters were voiced by different people, but they had voiced other characters in the original. David Hayter gave up half his paycheck to get everyone back.

[Kurylo3d]

The problem with twin snakes was they added stuff that was just dumb and made no sense. Like when snake would listen on on a conversation he would do a super high jumping cartwheel over the door to go to the other side of the door to continue listening. Like wtf. solid snake doesnt have super human strength...

There were like 4 or 5 of these extra cutscenes that made no sense. So I can see why kojima would distance himself. It wasnt his vision.

[taquito]

"KojiPro explains Twin Snakes’ exclusion from Metal Gear Solid HD Collection"

-we want to sell it to you later

[Omar1st]

Lool this xD. And heck ill buy it too Kojima-baby!

[crxss]

yeah it was a pretty crappy excuse

[Blacktric]

That game is one of the few reasons why I want to buy a Gamecube or a Wii, so I would gladly pay money to play an HD version of it. Metal Gear Solid: HD Collection was perfect the way it was anyway.

[WeskerChildReborned]

Aha i'll buy it. Mayber they should make a HD collection 2 pack and include other games like the original one.

[Xperia_ion]

Original voice actors > Twin snakes voice actors. When Sniper Wolf dies in the Twin Snakes version you don't give a shit.

[Irishguy95]

The music in the original was better too imo. Still though, I want this one two, better than nothng and suits the HD collection.

Zerochoas down there, that isn't true, the gameplay changed too to MGS2's gameplay

[Sidewinder-]

It's a game you play through with a bunch of Metal Gear minded mates, just to take the piss out of it, while remembering how much better the ps1 game was.

[coolman229]

You do realize that it's the same people, right?

[Xperia_ion]

Voice acting was sooo good in the original, lightning didn't strike twice, it happens.

[Xperia_ion]

Doube post and the script wasn't good in Twin Snakes. Also the guy who did the music should be slapped, my opinion.

[simonrope]

Poor excuse.

[Baka-akaB]

Either way it's a gamecube exclusive done by another studio with unecessary changes . It had no place there

[wishingW3L]

the bullet time and other cheesy stuff they added really ruined the game for me. It's like they watched Matrix Reloaded and Revolutions way too many times before coming up with the changes. But it wasn't their fault either, it was Kojima who said to try and make the game different from the original, otherwise it would have been a great remake. ;_;

[coolman229]

Don't blame the studio for all of the changes. The gameplay updates were welcome (especially shooting in first person), and they wanted to do everything in the cutscenes like the original, but Kojima told them to go over the top.

[PirateThom]

Don't know why anyone would want it anyway, the original version is better.

[Baka-akaB]

Personally i didnt want twin snakes . i'd love an hd remake of the original ps1 games , not that thing with those scenes direct by Kitamura (even if it was done at the request of kojima) .

[KillerPwned]

I need to buy this game..

[h311rais3r]

Good luck lol it's extremely rare now unless u order it online. Generally expensive 2

[KillerPwned]

Already found it for $25 :) I used to own it but being young and stupid I sold it. Gonna pick it up really soon.

[NBT91]

Is it? I have mine from the day it came out still; I thought it was still fairly common.

[Horny]

It is a rare find now. I'm lucky I have my copy. I love twin snakes, the only annoyances were two altered cutscenes and sniper wolf and ravens voice is not as good as the original.

[ZeroChaos]

A bit of a shit excuse.

Twin Snakes was just a remake by a different company the only big differences were the cutscenes and voices (for some).

To say its not canon, when most of the story in the game is the same is a bit of dumb statement.

[PirateThom]

I understand exactly what they mean by it though and I think it can all be summed up by Snake jumping on a missile.

Honestly though, I'd say removing the Nintendo references would have been a bigger deal than anything.

[DigitalAnalog]

I remember vividly getting excited on the prospect of a MGS Remaster. All the trailer cutscenes back then got me very hyped. But then I played the game and suddenly the game turned into a Matrix spin-off, but what really got me was this (at 1:00):

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

I broke my gamecube controller in disgust.

[palaeomerus]

So Snake jumping on a missle really bothered you but Ninja/Greyfox holding MG Rex's leg up didn't?

There was no $#@#ing realism in MGS to ruin. It was born over the top.

But at least the story made some sense unlike MGS 2.

[ChickeyCantor]

You, everyone else and I know that Kojima just doesn't want to "re-remake" Twin snakes.

If Twin snakes for gamecube was build by konami/Kojima it would have definitely been in there.

The "HD" collection was a semi quick cash in and didn't want to put more effort to it.

@palaeomerus
Exactly. Hell even MGS2 had over the top nonsense.

Kojima says they were making sure it stayed in tact with what they wanted. If it's not Snake jumping on a rocket, then why did they approve it?

[Baka-akaB]

The script was edited a bit actually to fit the original japanese . Some post credit ending content was quite changed too .

And i wouldnt call the cutscene changes something minor , especially with the bullet time .

Hell there is even a small part that was gameplay turned cutscene .

[Ducky]

Yea but the cinematic do sort of change the feel of the game.

Like the Ocelot fight where in the original Snake just takes a jump back to avoid a bullet... while in TwinSnakes he's does a back-flip.
... and then the post-fight cutscene with gray fox doing all kinds of ninja trickery.

The character's don't exactly behave like they did in the canon version.

[Eamon]

And Liquid doing a somersault on a railing. I could never forgive that.

[Ace_Pheonix]

This. Exactly this. It was close to being fantastic, I don't know why they had to change so much. It was like seeing a good novel turned into a shitty movie.

[Baka-akaB]

Yeah storywise the feel is already different . And some stuff was done to retrofit changes because of later games , like changeing the date of MGS1's setting to 2003 .

And gameplay wise , the change was big , adding MGS2 to the mix while not modifying the layout much and the foes , made the game way easier , and can even ruin some boss fights .

[firelogic]

If the man who created it says it's not canon, then it's not canon. There's no ifs ands or buts about it. So stop raging you fanboy.

[starman]

Lame excuse,since anything Snake did in twin Snakes could be explained by the nanites:)

[ChunkyLover53]

Twin Snakes is my second favorite Metal Gear game, right behind MGS3.

the game is still like $30+ if your lucky enough to find a copy somewhere.

[Venoxn4g]

yea, mine too:

1.mgs3
2.mgs: win snakes & mgs
3. mgs4
4.mgs2
5.mgs: pw
6. mg: acid 1& 2

[TheDivine]

Mine too man. The original rocked for its time but the remake was a massive leap forward with the fps aiming and updated graphics. It fit with mg2/3 perfectly. Great game.

Everything was ordered by Kojima anyways. People saying the cutscenes ruined it they were asked for by Kojima specifically. He wanted to add more action and over the top elements which showed up in 2-4.

[joeorc]

"That was a remake made by Silicone Knights. We supervised it but we didn’t create it directly and we wanted to make sure that everything in the HD Collection was canon. Everything that goes into there is something created directly by Kojima Productions and Kojima himself. So that is the reason why Twin Snakes was not included in HD Collection."

wait..are you telling me, twin snakes was not "CANNON"

http://epguides.com/Cannon/

OH' Canon...ugh..you had me worried there..lol

[Kratoscar2008]

It could be both:

1) The same reason why we dont have HD collection of RE Remake and Zero, Nintendo exclusivity deal.

2) Or the WII U will implement HD rereleases of WII and Gamecube games.

[FarCryLover182]

Off topic, but should I buy the HD collection?? I've only played MGS4 and none of these titles? I liked MGS4...would I like these??

[Baka-akaB]

Of course you should . I dunno why you wouldjust want the last chapter of the story . Now of course those are older games with a partially different gameplay

[asyouburn]

Dude, mgs3 is the greatest game ever made. Maybe not the best, but definitely the greatest

[Eamon]

Twin Snakes was inferior to the original in both cutscenes and gameplay.

The cutscenes lacked original ost and featured a lot of cheesy stuff.

The gameplay brought elements of MGS2 that simply did not suit MGS1 level structure and bosses. Ocelot boss was turned into a run around and gun instead of hiding behind beams and shooting at the right moment.

[yewles1]

I'm actually glad for this. Everyone suddenly fighting like a power ranger was completely out of place for MG. It was, cutscene-wise, MGRR before MGRR...

[Summons75]

Twin Snakes was TERRIBLE, any MGS fan should be glad it wasn't included

[Lord_Sloth]

That is an opinion.

I still have the Black Label PS1 MGS and would have enjoyed Twin Snakes as I do not own it. Yes I've played it and yes, I enjoyed it.

I dunno what made Twin Snakes to bad in every1's eyes since MGS3 and 4 featured their fair share of martial arts action, and Snake was supposed to be a master at CQC anyway.

Seriously the guy faced Grey Fox in melee and won. I don't think a remake made by Kojima himself would be terribly different.

[Sidewinder-]

Cus snake jumps on a missile.

[MasterCornholio]

It's sad that we can't play MGS 1 with updated visuals but what I really want Sony to do is enable PSX support on the Vita so I can play the first Metal Gear Solid Game.

XperiaRay

[spirited]

man i wish Metal Gear Solid HD Collection was on PC as well

mgs3 hands down one of my all time favourties

[MWH]

what a load of bullshit.

[FinaLXiii]

I would love to play it on HD but seems there's ppl that actually think that is a bad thing wow amazing beyong my belief.

I dont give 2 ****'s if Twins Snakes isnt cannon or less great than its original i just wanna play it.

[2pacalypsenow]

get a gamecube

[FinaLXiii]

You misread "HD".

[Shadowstar]

I don't think this is the real reason. I think the real issue is that since Silicon Knights made it, if they put TS in there, they'd have to pay out additional royalties.

[kingPoS]

What Konami could done with the Twin Snakes engine was keep the dialog, sounds & music from the ps1 Metal Gear Solid. It's too bad that's just a pipe dream now. >_>

[Ducky]

Considering that MGS4 contains most of ShadowMoses, and that they have the dialogue from TwinSnakes, they could've remade MGS1 again.

Oh well, maybe some things are better left in the past.

[2pacalypsenow]

would take too long and expensive to include it in a $40 collection

[Skate-AK]

Even if it was their game they wouldn't have done it. They wouldn't package 4 MGS games for $40. If anything a HD version of Twin Snakes would be a digital download.

[George Sears]

I'd prefer the original than this one. Horrible voice over just ruins the masterpiece from the original.

[MWH]

agree

[Omnislash]

yeah Im glad they didnt put in Twin Snakes, that game is not even created by Kojima its more of a fan-remake than anything.... Original>TTS

[unicron7]

Twin Snakes was trash anyway. The original MGS on PS blows the socks off of it. Better cinematic direction and far better audio. After playing 15 minutes of it and seeing how they changed Naomi's voice and screwed with various bits of dialogue, I said screw it. All they had to do was up the graphics and add MGS2 gameplay mechanics...but no...they had to ruin it.

[Droid Control]

I've never played a metal gear game but have always wanted to.

I was going to buy the HD collection until I learned that 1 wouldn't be included.

I need to play them all in order, not start at 2.

Therefore, f**kyou verymuch Kojima, you arrogant pr*ck. No sale.

[Chrono]

OK, how about a separate digital release?

[stubbed_out]

Couldn't they have just remastered the original MGS 1? Would absolutely love to play through it again in HD, the PSN version is painful to look at. I'd pretty much love any reason to play through the entire series again (can't wait for trophies on 4 too) but don't really want to start at 2.

Just very confusing and silly why they wouldn't just make the HD collection the original MGS games in HD. ARGHHH!! First world problems.

[Orionsangel]

Kojima and Konami created MGS. MGS Twin Snakes is the same game with better graphics and just a few minor changes. I think Kojima's statement is a cop out.

[fastNslowww]

Those minor changes impact the overall look of the game, I'm mainly referring to CINEMATICS, which the director of the game (twin snakes) went a little OVER board and didn't really REPRESENT Solid snake very well or to Hideo's Vision. Since HIS version was already done, he didn't think too much of twin snakes, but just a nice graphical update and to pay homage somewhat to past MG games that debuted on a Nintento system, etc.

[Orionsangel]

Is that you in your avatar? You're hot!

[Knushwood Butt]

Because it sucks?

[NonSpecificActionFig]

That by far is the dumbest reason I have ever heard. The Twin Snakes is canon, just because Kojima himself didnt draw every pixel doesnt mean the story loses being "canon". If anything this is exactly how he wanted it to be since him and his team supervised the production of the game. Maybe they will make a Wii-U version and add this one in !

[Smokingunz]

Twins snake was an awesome remake of a great game. Twin snakes was way better than the original! I heard it's worth a pretty penny too on eBay and such. Glad I still have my copy.

[TemplarDante]

Not original voice actors would have spoiled the game for me.
Wouldve rather have liked to have had Metal Gear Solid PS1 game. I still have it on PS1, but it wouldve been a nicer package.
I still think in celebration of the MGS annervesary, their going to announce a complete package of
MGS1
MGS2
MGS3
MGS4 and
an announcement of MGS 5
:D
now that would be awesome.
If they dont, then I hope they do oneday.

[TheCopyNinja]

Fuck it. I'll still pay $60 for MGS:TS HD by itself. It'll be worth it.

[Soldierone]

It didn't need to be Twin Snakes, so the excuse is kinda lame. We are spending 40-50 dollars for games we already purchased before (probably 2 or more times for a majority of us) so why not put the effort in to add the most loved game in HD?

Then again we are getting an update to MGS4 FINALLY so its good.

[007Bond]

I still have my gamecube copy so It didnt matter to me.

[Kwertie]

>That was a remake made by Silicone Knights. We supervised it but we didn’t create it directly and we wanted to make sure that everything in the HD Collection was canon

More like, "Since it's not developed entirely by us, it causes some issues with obtaning the license and ensuring everyone is happy"

It's the same reason why you don't get Goldeneye on the Wii VC. To hell with the industry

[MacDonagh]

There is a reason why MGS: Twin Snakes is over the top. Does anyone remember this line Solid Snake said about himself "The reality is no match for the legend"? Twin Snakes was about the legend that surrounded the Shadow Moses incident and not the actual reality of what really took place. The over the top nature was supposed to reflect that but it seems that it went over a lot of people's heads when they played it.

[PirateThom]

I think you're giving the development teams far too much credit. If the gameplay had reflected that, you might have a point, but since it's really only a few cutscenes, I'd say it's a stretch at best. Especially since he said that in MGS about his previous exploits due to Meryl being a fan.

What happened was Konami and Kojima had got Ryuhei Kitamura to direct the cutscenes, he had done it as a straight port with nothing changed, but Kojima had wanted Kitamura to bring his own style to the game and, hence, the game is a mishmash of Snake being down to earth and being a superhero.

[MacDonagh]

"A legend is nothing but fiction. Someone tells it, someone else remembers, everybody passes it on."

Solid Snake

Considering that Solid Snake's name precedes him and he didn't buy into the mythos that surrounded his reputation; it's not that big of a stretch to surmise that Twin Snakes was an over exaggerated take on the events that took place. Hence, it can't be canon to the rest of the Metal Gear series since it's about a Solid Snake who can pull off near-impossible feats.

[WitWolfy]

I dunno it looks decent to me.. would love to play this.. Will see if I can get an GC emulator some where and check it out.

[JoeSchmoh]

Twin Snakes was a gamecube exclusive because the people who made it made an exclusive game for gamecube called "Eternal Darkness". The Twin Snakes game was just a Metal Gear game for Nintendo and Konami couldn't make it because they were probably in and still in contract with SONY. It's a cool game, I have it. It's alot like Sons of Liberty in terms of the enemies having dog tags. It's like a PS2 version of Metal Gear 1. It is a cooler version of the PS1 version because it opens up alot of more things you can do from Sons of Liberty.

[Double_O_Revan]

I would kill for an hd version if the original top down version. Yes it would have to be remade from scratch because the textures would would look like crap. But I can dream...

[DivineAssault]

In other words, they didnt want to bother paying silicone knights any royalties.. It would be nice to have em all on one disc on one system.. oh well, i like the original MGS ps1 sound effects & voice work anyway..