Is the PlayStation 3 Dangerous for Small Companies to Develop for?

HighDefinition - 321 days 8 hours ago

Are sh!t games dangerous for companies to develop.

Fixed.

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chaosatom - 321 days 8 hours ago

But I guess they knew that it won't fair well on xbox either, so they didn't.

I think Ps3 install base is big enough for small developers to make games for it.

The sales have been picked up dramatically for EA, Ubisoft, Konami's, so it's fair to say that Good games made by small developers will sell.

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WANNA GET HIGH - 321 days 8 hours ago

But it is HARD for and very COMPLEX for small companies to work on.The ps3's cell is very powerfull but also very hard to work with.

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CrazzyMan - 321 days 8 hours ago

Ensemble Studios say hi.

Anyway,
Evolution Studios(Motorstorm over 3 mln., Motorstorm:PR over 1 mln.)
Ninja Theory(Heavenly Sword around 1,5 mln.)
Media Molecule(LittleBigPlanet around 1,5 mln.)

Make a GREAT game and you will have GREAT sales, well atleast over 1 mln. LTD. =)
Bad or average games usually don`t sell, unless were advertised much.

And motorstorm also used sixaxis as optional control scheme, for Factor 5 not using same was just stupid decision. And Haze, it just needed to deliver and sales would be big.

@The Lazy One - the difference, we won`t see anymore games from Ensemble Studios. What the difference?

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SonyOwnsNextYear - 321 days 8 hours ago

media molecule?

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harry190 - 321 days 8 hours ago

By today's standards achieved something out of this world. They are also one of the smallest teams. Small in number, Ginormous is talent.

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The Lazy One - 321 days 7 hours ago

ensemble wasn't bankrupted, it was shut down. Yes, it is very different.

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badz149 - 321 days 7 hours ago

American media always trying hard to downplay the PS3 these days and this is their latest attemp? PS3 doesn't kill devs, but sh!tty games do! Lair and Haze were not up to the standard/hype thus they were both bashed critically! plus, the economy is unforgiving as of today and even EA has to lay it's employees! NFS studio was closed, right? so...what's the true point of this article? is it saying that 360 is easier to developed for? if that so, why the hell do NG2, Fable2, Gears2 are full of glitch and problem? come on...sonsoles only can kill their makers but never the devs! what kill the devs are bad games!

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Oner - 321 days 7 hours ago

It's not a matter of how big or small your company is. If you don't make a QUALITY title or just resort to shovelware then you have no one to blame but yourselves...and that goes for ALL consoles PS3, PS2, PSP, Wii, DS & 360. That is the real truth.

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Dannagar - 321 days 7 hours ago

Poor games did Factor 5 and Free Radical in. However, I can't help but feel that the games were released half finished. I think these projects could have been better on Xbox 360 because they wouldn't have had to spend extra time researching and trouble shooting the PS3 hardware. That extra time could have been used developing the actual games. We all know that games developed on the PS3 takes months longer due to the complexity of the architecture and development difficulties that plagued many early PS3 third parties.

Two or three extra months working on the gameplay could have made all the difference in the world.

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iamtehpwn - 321 days 7 hours ago

If PS3 had many AAA games that did poorly, then as a Developer, I'd worry. buuuuuuut. That's definitely not fact. Most of the top PS3 exclusives such as MGS4 and Uncharted have done extremely well on the platform.

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baum - 321 days 6 hours ago

If you're a small company developing an ambitiously epic game, then your company is in big danger. Level-5 and Free Radical were small devs, and while they didn't pay for themselves, companies wouldn't want to pay for another one of their games as you're pretty much remembered for your last game. Both Lair and Haze were not only very hyped and had a very high budget, they were original IP.

These are probably some of the riskiest projects any gaming company has ever tried to overtake considering their size.

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Danja - 321 days 6 hours ago

so Lair can't be the reason why Factor 5 went under..

Free Radical could have went multi-plat if they wanted , PS3 isn't to blame..

and to answer the question No the PS3 isn't dangerous for small companies to develop for it's actually quite the opposite PS3 is actually the best system for small developers they can easily make PSN games and make profits off it.....

@Crazy_Man - Lair does give you the option of using Motion controls or Analog...

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Xelai - 321 days 6 hours ago

Both games sold around half a million copies, so sales were not so dismal even though the games were. So the problem had to be developing costs rising and mounting with the delays.

Factor 5 HAD to implement sixaxis, and they were forced into doing it in a point the game was already far ahead in development.

Free Radical went exclusive because Ubisoft accepted Sony's money for it, MS is not the only one paying for exclusives, surprise.

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BigBaehr - 321 days 6 hours ago

The analog use was not patched in until it was too little too late.

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Danja - 321 days 6 hours ago

I know Analog support came with a patch just felt like getting that out there..that it does support Analog..

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medziarz - 321 days 5 hours ago

There's a lot of Sony hate and misinformation in this article.

"Multiple lengthy delays, hit or miss hands-on reports, and rumors of massive development issues started to plague both games."

I've been following gaming news for the last two years and I don't recall any MULTIPLE or LENGTHY delays.
Lair was one of the games presented at sony E3 PS3 unveiling as a preview of what u can expect for the system, just as Killzone 2,
and it launched in less than a year after the console. Haze was meant to be released in fall 2007 but it slipped to 2008.

I also don't recall any development issues either.
All i remember is that Lair pushed video game tech and PS3's SPUs a bit by doing certain tasks in real time to make the game look good from the ground all the way up to the clouds. Notice that other games don't that to this day, except for Warhawk - it's always corridors or closed valleys and you're always on the ground.
As for Haze, it features vast levels and there's no loading screens in the campaign and there are no ELEVATORS to mask it, you're always in your character's head whether it's a cutscene or action - and it's all seamless.

You can find a couple of other possible reasons for the studios' failures if you're goal is not attacking sony but looking for answers.

Both developers started their projects long before the PS3 launched and with no particular platform in mind. Lair was in development for approx. 4 years before it launched and it was initially announced a 360 only title just because the 360 was available to the developers A LOT earlier than the PS3. Haze was announced quite early 2007 as a 3 platform game.

But in the middle of development they both realized their games are going to suck probably because both the studios lost the ability to produce a good game.
They also lost all their money and years not developing anything else.
So they figured that the only way out is to sell the games using HYPE.

Factor 5 probably ran out of money so they talked Sony into funding the game under the first party umbrella, promising making a significant use of PS3's futuristic architecture before anyone else does. Something Sony was in need and looking for. They looked at F5's past record and took the bait. Unfortunately, the 1st party funding was not enough to cover F5's debt, and the game didn't make the money in sales because it was slaughtered by gaming media in an anty-sony hate campaign that began with the PS3's launch.

Free Radical realized that making the game a broken multiplatform that nobody cares about isn't going to make them enough money to survive. They were already far behind schedule and decided to cancel the PC and X360 versions in order to free themselves from multiplatform development issues and to be able to concentrate on making one version actually work, so that it can be released on the PS3 in line with HALO3.
With that decision, their past record and the PS3-exclusive-shooter marketing campaign they generated media attention and hype among Playstation enthusiasts.
While 360 shooter fans would be buying HALO3, the PS3 owners and fanboys would have an exclusive shooter - crappy or not.
But they failed and the game slipped to 2008 and then was butchered by the media and therefore didn't sell, and there was no exclusive
agreement in this case.

So there u have it.

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Some_One_Plays - 321 days 4 hours ago

Wow, I'm shocked, someone finally on N4G.com uses their head with another negative Sony article. People should listen to this user and no, I'm not being sarcastic.

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r3xmund1 - 321 days ago

I think Lair was not a bad game and I was hoping to see a sequel.... On the other hand I put Haze in yesterday cos I felt bad for FRD (I loved Timesplitters), and it wus BAD>

Sub par graphics and real bad textures/environments, crap AI, lazy level design, appalling dialogue, glitchy animation and a host of issues plagued Haze.

I wanted it to succeed, I waited for a year for it to be released. It sucked. Should they have closed? No. But I think its just a recession and notoriety busting exercise. A new studio is formed, no association to Haze, everyone wins.

I want moar Lair.

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ultimolu - 320 days 22 hours ago

I agree.

Just because those games were bad, doesn't mean that the PS3 is dangerous to develop for.

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IdleLeeSiuLung - 320 days 14 hours ago

I think other questions should be asked instead:

- What demographics and interrest does the console base have currently in the region you plan to sell your game?
- Size of the console user base (in your sales region)
- How much resources you have and complexity of developing games for the platform (PS3 might not be harder than 360 if you aren't pushing the limits i.e. downloadable PSN indy type games)
- Distribution method, downloadable or disc
- What marketing power do you get from the platform holder, if any
- If you are game just plain sucks

Pretty obvious stuff. Game studios go down and new ones get resurrected all the time. It is just the nature of the business for smaller studios, that rely on one hit wonders.

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morganfell - 321 days 5 hours ago

And that is a boon for small developers. PSN has no download limit as regards game size and it assists small developers in distribution. It is why companies like Blackfoot studios are going PC and PSN for their titles.

Working with the PS3 is not the difficult bash it used to be. You just have to have people willing to learn. Plenty of companies do. As Ubisoft France stated, work with the PS3 was no more difficult for them than with the 360. It just required a willingness to learn new tools, techniques and programming. On deve at Ubi France felt blaming the PS3 was a copout.

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SaiyanFury - 320 days 22 hours ago

Dangerous for small developers to make games on the PS3? Not so much considering Sony gives an open invitation to those devs and Sony often publishes those devs' games themselves. Sony's not afraid of a bit of risk and we see great titles coming on both PSN and disc based games in general. Flow was simple yet brilliant and we see a lot of creativity on the disc based arena as well. LBP was done by a relatively small team, but Sony sponsored them and Sony had a great selling title with an iconic character as a new mascot to appeal to everyone, not just the cores.

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ctorretta - 321 days 8 hours ago

The point to my article is that normally it just doesn't take one single crappy game to destroy a well established developer studio. Both of these games faced massive delays that can almost purely be pointed at as an issue with them getting to terms with the PS3 hardware. Especially in the case of LAIR, where they caved to Sony's pressure to make a 1080p game with SIXAXIS controls.

And I know that people will accuse me of being a anti-ps3 fanboy. But... I have two PS3s, two PSPs, and actually no other system. I love the PS3, but I think its foolish to not contemplate this as a serious issue.

But everybody is entitled to their own opinion. I just think its a worthy topic to think about.

-Colin Torretta
Editor in Chief
www.infinite-bits.com

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Nathan Drake - 321 days 8 hours ago

That's right,and even though Sony didn't publish nor develop Haze,the studios' downfall is Sony's fault.

"Small Companies to Develop for?","a well established developer studio".Do you realize that you just contradicted yourself?

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resistance100 - 321 days 7 hours ago

@ctorretta

I do see where your coming from, however its like you said that it doesn't take one game to take a long running studio down. Now in a way you've answered your own question, as it clearly shows you that both Factor 5 and Free Rad have been losing money for years and this just finished them off and also what you have to remember is that Ubisoft and Sony would have covered the majority of the development costs for the games.

All this credit crunch has done is highlight what companies have been poorly run

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Dread - 321 days 7 hours ago

ouch

damn straight torreta

i hear you

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DarK-SilV - 321 days 6 hours ago

Ctorretta you really have good points, but there are other things to consider, (quality of the game, time of release, media take, user base at the time of release, marketing) the list goes on, so you really cant blame Ps3 by it self, but it could be part of the problem,
Peoples say Quality = good sales, yes I agree but not all the time,
Wii crap = good sales

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darkride66 - 320 days 15 hours ago

Free Radical lost LucasArts as a publisher and partner. That would be a huge blow right there. Factor 5's publisher, Brash, also recently collapsed due to current credit conditions. Wouldn't you think those would have an impact, and not the console they choose to develop on? And don't you think a gaming site should be able to put those factors together, rather then pointing the finger at Sony? I'm just sayin...

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ctorretta - 321 days 8 hours ago

I totally agree with you there. Like I said in the above response though, the point is not that these games sucked. But that a single bad game could destroy two established developer studios.

Both studios appear to have major issues adapting to the more complex architecture of the PS3 (see the massive delays and horrific LAIR motion controls). So there is a reasonable chance that the cost of learning and adapting to the PS3's architecture represents such an investment that a small studio is possibly at risk when trying to develop a big budget title for the PS3.

Remember that nobody starts out with the goal to make a bad game...

Colin Torretta
www.infinite-bits.com

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CrazzyMan - 321 days 7 hours ago

Anyway, ctorretta, your article is outdated.
Time, when for PS3 developing games was a hard thing is a PAST.
If most developers these days can provide same experience in MULTIPLATFORM games on PS3/x360, then there is no excuse for exclusive PS3 games developement with problems. =)
Just make GOOD game and you will have GOOD sales.

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callahan09 - 321 days 7 hours ago

How do you know that Haze wasn't as good as it should have been if you admit to not playing it?

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Danja - 321 days 6 hours ago

Lair was a good game and with the patch for analog controls , the game became even more fun...

since I dont rely on reviewers to decide which games I buy , I went out and bought HAZE and it wasn't as bad as the media/gamers were saying ,the graphics looked like it could have been a PS3 launch title , the gameplay was rather solid the story was mediocre , there was absolutely no loading screens plus to Free Radical for that , the online was just ok...overall the game is average....not terrible..

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HighDefinition - 321 days 8 hours ago

What you didn`t know?

LOL.

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Xi - 321 days 8 hours ago

Fasa and ensemble didn't go belly up, they were dissolved by MS, you know... the company that owns them, who also hasn't gone belly up.

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Dread - 321 days 7 hours ago

thank u Xi

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Jazz4108 - 320 days 23 hours ago

How do you know about KillZone 2 ? Its not out.

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jack who - 321 days 8 hours ago

aka haze and lair

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jack who - 321 days 8 hours ago

aka working on too human 2

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Steven Colbert - 321 days 8 hours ago

I thought Haze was average,Too Human was average as well but Lair was just horrendous.

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Wiimaniac - 321 days 8 hours ago

I'm going right now to rent Lair to actually play it and experience this horrendous sh1t you all are talking about. Because I don't think that game can be that bad...

edit:
Everybody said to me that Spider-man Web of Shadow was horrendous too and graphically it is really horrendous but then I played it and it was pretty cool, specially the battles in the air... Then the same happened with Mirror's Edge and that game is one of the best games I have ever played this gen...

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DeathroW22 - 321 days 7 hours ago

Blu-ray has nothing to do with it, tbh.

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GiantEnemyLobster - 321 days 7 hours ago

If you're stupid enough to develop a game just for the PS3 then you deserve to be out of business.

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Danja - 321 days 6 hours ago

I suggest you give Lair a rent , the patch made Analog controls optional which enhances the gameplay alot , the game wasn't bad with the Motion controls , it's just that gamers these days expect everything to be handed to them on a silver platter , they hate trying something new it it isn't the old fashion way they're use it..it's crap because it has a learning curve...

the game is a 7/10 in my book...and it still looks better than alot of games released this year , the audio is also amazing...

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Snake Raiser - 321 days 5 hours ago

Who the HEEL would approve an article from a blog that only has one post?
Obviously meant to bash PS3. I, BIG BOSS be snapin' yo neck.
Probably this guy made the blog over night to defend those comments that were made on the Factor 5 goes ker-plop story.

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Kleptic - 321 days 5 hours ago

that may be your opinion...but there is no arguing that both games received horrendous press, and sales to match...

making a below par game on a new system with a small installed base is ALWAYS risky, especially when the game has a large budget...

while I know it is still deemed 'cool' to do this; you can't blame the PS3 for everything...both these games were for the most part floaters...that had no business being released in their condition anyway...some found them better than their review scores...some, me included, entirely agreed with their scores...

you could make a crapper on either HD system this generation...and be in a world of hurt because of it...you could make the shattiest game of all time for the Wii though, and be around for years...dev after dev have been doing that since 2006...

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Marty8370 - 321 days 7 hours ago

Then why are EA, Ubisoft & 2kGames making more profit from PS3 than 360 or Wii.

There are other markets other than the f#cking US.

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Xlll - 321 days 6 hours ago

Can you confirm this with a link? "one of them is pobably LBP for the 360!!" Not possible, for the simple fact not all 360's have a HDD also no motion control. Sad little bot to easy to own.

Oh on a side note wtf is "pobably"? Spell check is your friend.

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PirateThom - 321 days 6 hours ago

He's trolling.

Sony own the IP to LittleBigPlanet and it's Sony who have signed Media Molecule for 3 games.

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swiftshot93 - 321 days 6 hours ago

just to let you know PP sony has already signed a 3 game exclusivity contract with media molecule. Furthermore, the founders of MM left M$ (lionhead-1st party) to work on LBP exclusively FOR THE PLAYSTATION 3. I wouldnt be inclined to believe that they would all of the sudden go back to M$ and break their contract. Also you immediately speculate that (hypothetically speaking, of course) LBP will be ported to the 360 by MM in the instance of them developing a game for M$. However this is impossible as Sony already owns the property/rights to the LBP intellectual property(IP). And by the way, i hope you can understand this post. Then again i have doubts seeing how you are a child.

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thereapersson - 321 days 5 hours ago

wow, you are a f*cking dumbass

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thereapersson - 321 days 5 hours ago

not to mention the link he posted contains nothing of the point he was trying to make

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