The truth about the Xbox 360

The infamous Xbox 360 "red ring of death" (indicating a failed unit) has caused Microsoft - and its customers - untold pain in the three years since the console's launch in 2005, and cost it $1.15bn (£738m) last year. Microsoft has never said publicly why the console was plagued with faults: it seems that poor production quality was at the heart of the failures - an all-round problem with no single cause except impatience on the company's part as it tried to become the leader in videogame consoles.

It was an ambitious attack. Microsoft's engineers started working on the Xbox 360 at least a year after Sony's engineers began work on the PlayStation 3, yet wound up shipping a year earlier. With the first Xbox, the company lost $3.7bn (£2.3bn) over four years, mostly because costs of the box - particularly its hard drive - were too high. Bill Gates didn't really care about the losses; that was simply the ante for getting into an exciting new business. But Steve Ballmer, who took over from Gates as chief executive during the first generation, really wanted the Xbox business to be profitable second time around.

[HighDefinition]

It`s sh!t quality, w/ good games. But the NO HDD and DVD hurts it`s longevity. IF MS wasn`t making so much off of XBL, they **probaly** would have quit by now.

Period.

[thor]

It's not just RROD. RROD gets flung around a lot on the web, but of the people I know personally, I don't know one who has got the RROD. But every 360 owner I know has had their disks scratched to pieces by their 360. It's a shoddy piece of hardware all round.

Designed with perhaps more thought to gaming than the PS3 though. But shoddily built from its decent component parts.

@MURKERR

I mean that it was designed with a PC architecture, unified RAM and a (slightly) better graphics card than the PS3. Easier to develop for. The PS3 made _some_ better decisions with regard to standard HDD and some other things, but on the whole, the 360 is easier to develop great looking games for.

Also, the 360's OS was designed with things like cross-game messaging and chat from the start, and games were built around those limitations. With the PS3, these features are being patched in later but are restricted by the games that all have to be able to still run. E.g. in-game XMB is still slow.

[MURKERR]

how many times would you put up with a car or girlfriend that broke down that much?

@ thor..if 360 was built with gaming in mind more than ps3 why dvd9?, why no wifi? why no bluetooth for headsets?why download limits for GAMES? ridiculous comment

[earwax]

Why can't you get over THAT fact? and face it, that the reason the 360 lived thru that is because it has GREAT games. I had it TWICE myself, did I enjoy it? NO however could I wait to get my system back? no . November is almost going to put me in the poor house with all the great games out this month.

[Elven6]

Murrker: if 360 was built with gaming in mind more than ps3 why dvd9?, why no wifi? why no bluetooth for headsets?why download for GAMES? ridiculous comment

Err since when was Bluetooth a gaming necessity? Plus the 360 is able to download games, ever heard of XBLA, Xbox Originals, and Tomb Raider: Anniversary? Wifi is convenient but it's not good for gaming.

I agree with the DVD 9 comment, Microsoft could have easily chucked a HD DVD drive into the unit and still meet ship date.

[MURKERR]

who said neccesity?

my points aids a gamers playing experience...thats something built with gaming in mind

there is a cap on size limits for games and the braid developer vented his frustrations on it,and as for bluetooth using a bluetooth headset the official one with the mute while online is the bomb

[INehalemEXI]

I agree Thor I never had a unit go RRoD on me but I had 2 units that did scratch discs.

except for that part about it being built more for gaming then the ps3 that is not true imo. It was just built with a traditional chipset with a few modifications to bolster it. While the Ps3 was built for gaming its chipset and tech was advanced to carry it further into the future gaming was always in mind just because it can play HD movies does not mean sony forgot what they where building.

@ arrrgh I spent like $9 on a bluetooth headset a long time ago....You don't have to get the official one. Wireless is worth it too, but I do think they should have included headsets in PS3 SKU's like 360's do.

[Gue1]

not exactly i thinks it's because of the price because if you compare it to the other consoles the freaking X360 is even cheaper than the Wii!

then why is not destroying the PS3 that cost almost the triple? the PS3 is still outselling it in japan and in a couple of more territories.

now do you still think that it is because of the games? then what is maintaining the PS3 sell rates? the games? because it couldn't be the price... right now the X360 and PS3 are getting the same amount of games. that excuse about "the PS3 doesn't have games" is long dead by now.

edit: i have 5 friends with x360 and all their x360's suffered the RRoD. the funny thing is that they went and bought another because they say that the PS3 is still too expensive!

BTW where i live is a pain in the *** to send the freaking Xbox to MS...

[Ju]

@argh, quote:

"The yield was typically only around 70% - far short of the target - until May 2007."

Still a 30% defect rate - until 2007 (!), maybe not return rate, but average yield should be around 98%. So 30% didn't even leave the factory. Bad, real bad...

These 15% in returns are still bad, though. I mean this was reported "early this year" (that's 3M units ?).

What surprised me, that they added the HDD and Wireless controllers later. Didn't know that.

The PS3 isn't outselling anything. It sells solid, though. I still can't believe, that MS will get away with that same bullsh!t again. While I appreciate competition, just putting money to play is not what I'd favor. Let the quality speak, and I am all ears.

[ceedubya9]

For one thing, you have to remember that the 360 has not ALWAYS been cheaper than the Wii. Its been above that price point until they did their price cuts.

The main reasons why 360 hasn't blown away the PS3 aren't too difficult to see. First, the Playstation brand is a lot stronger than the Xbox brand. The Xbox brand is still growing, and the PS3 has been able to live off of the successes of the PS1 and PS2 despite its higher price point. People know what Playstation is, and have for years. Wouldn't you trust that more initially than what could be considered still a young upstart?

You also have to keep in mind that Sony has made some major price cuts and hardware cuts in order to get the PS3 down to the price it has now, which is not that much more expensive the the Pro 360. Do you think the console would be anywhere near the 360 if it was still holding closer to that 600 dollar price tag it came out with? Without those sacrifices, it would be safe to assume that the PS3 would have been going nowhere fast.

So you have to wonder, with the hardware problems, if games and price are not the reason the 360 has done well, then what is?

[pocketaces11]

@earwax

body just bought one played 3 days in a row probably 5 hrs a day on GOW2 and RROD. Microsoft is $HIT

My brother in law lived with 2 other guys each with a X-box 2 of them were replaced TWICE one 3 TIMES.

It should have NEVER happened it's unbeleavable it did the whole company should be boycoted but THEY DON'T care because everyone goes out and buys more of their products

[MURKERR]

if 360 was really built for gaming in mind more than the ps3 WHY NO HARDDRIVE IN EVERY CONSOLE?

[callahan09]

Truth is, people are blind as bats. And there are fanboys.

I absolutely despise the over-arching experience I've had with my Xbox 360. I've had 4 systems. My original, which broke & got replaced, the replacement of which broke and was replaced, and then when that one broke and it wasn't RROD they refused to deal with it, so being the irresponsibly obsessive gamer that I am, I just forked down 400 bucks and bought another 360 altogether. If you're curious why 400, it's because the only unit in stock at that time was the over-priced Halo 3 "limited edition/ugly ass green" version (which included nothing special to make it worth 50 bucks more than the Pro version, but cost 50 bucks more anyway).

I also don't like having to pay for the basic ability to play games online. I never utilize whatever bells and whistles it might have that the PSN doesn't support on the PS3 system, but I have to pay for the basic ability of playing online that you can do for free over on the PS3? It sucks, there's no two ways about that, and anybody who think they're not being ripped off on Xbox Live is blind, plain and simple. Really spend some time with Resistance 2, Warhawk, Call of Duty 4, or whatever on the PS3 and compare your experience to CoD4, Halo 3, or Gears of War 2 on the 360, and tell me you're not able to have a similar and just as smooth and pleasant of an online experience on both consoles, but one's free and the other isn't.

Anyway, I've digressed far enough along from my original point, which is that Microsoft has gotten away with it because of fanboyism and blindness of consumers. I fall into the blindness thing, supporting them with my almighty dollar despite how they've inconvenienced me: I just keep coming back for more, apparantly.

My brother, on the other hand, is an example of the fanboyism approach. He refuses to buy a PS3 because he's an "Xbox guy" as he puts it. He complains that they charge for Xbox Live, he complains that he bought the HD-DVD add-on and Microsoft did absolutely nothing to support the format (and rightly so... why sell the hardware device if you're willing to give literally ZERO support towards keeping the software format living?).

And most importantly, he complains that his system has broken multiple times on him, and (just like me in what I would say is not coincidental, but common course) his most recent is NOT the RROD, and therefore they refuse to acknlowedge his problem and won't accept it for free replacement or repair.

The company are bunch of cut-throats and liars and they don't give a damn about their consumers, they only care about doing the bare minimum to prevent lengthy and expensive lawsuits. But that's besides the point, again.

My brother refuses to get a PS3, he's just going to stick with 360 like it's the only place he can find quality gaming (even though it clearly isn't), because of his blind fanboyism for a company and product that has failed him, inconvenienced him, and screwed him time and time again.

I have a 360 and I'm enjoying Gears of War 2 and Fable 2 and other games for it, but if my current system fails and they refuse to replace it again, they will not see another dollar of mine being spent on Xbox 360 products, that's for damn sure. The PS3, as well, has enough quality content on it that I don't have enough time in the days to play all of the great games available across both platforms, and if it comes down to it, being a solely Playstation 3 gamer will be just fine and provide me with more than enough entertainment, because AS IT STANDS, I've been screwed and inconvienced by Microsoft, and not by Sony, so I'm willing to throw my eggs in Sony's basket at this point. They're the underdog in this generation, and they don't deserve to be, because they've got a nice machine with a lot of good features and software, and they've been listening to their customers and trying to give them all that they ask for.

Anyway, I make my own judgment call as far as what company is treating me with more respect and giving me more of what I want versus the hassles they're causing me as their customer, and from my perspective Sony made up for a lot of their mistakes from last generation, where Microsoft is taking pages from Sony's PS2 playbook and pissing off people like me in the process. It's a shame that it worked for the PS2 and it's working again for the 360. I'd love it if people would open their eyes and realize that they are supporting unethical business practices and really hurting themselves and the industry in the process.

[Oner]

Excellent post callahan09 ~ bubbles for you (but not for your brother, lol). Mind if I ask how old you and your brother are? This is not meant as disrespect but it sounds like he is probably quite young with that kind of mentality. Did he ever have a PS2? Has he even given the PS3 a try to make him be so evidently biased? I just don't get it...I mean what is the big deal with at least being a multiplatform gamer? Especially after the amount of headache he has endured with M$'s appalling practices that he admittedly acknowledges!

[callahan09]

Thanks for the positive response. I'm 24 and my brother is 28, actually. He never had a PS2... oddly enough, he started out the last generation with a Gamecube, and then moved on to Xbox after Halo 2 came out, then got a 360 when that came out. We shared an original Playstation when we were younger.

Anyway, he was hanging out over at my place this past weekend and I let him try out Resistance 2. He liked it, but he kept acting antsy to try out Gears of War 2, and when I asked him why he was doesn't just get a PS3 instead of getting an Xbox 360 Arcade (he's going to put his current hard drive in it), and continue paying for Xbox Live despite all of his complaints about the 360 failure and charges for playing online, he says "I just prefer the Xbox controller."

Whatever, you know, I let him play some of my favorite PS3 games, but he just doesn't want to "get used" to the Playstation controller that he hasn't used more than a few times in the past few years. I tried. I'd really like to see him get a PS3 someday because playing online with him made Halo 3 much more fun when that came out, and it could be really cool to play some Resistance 2 with him over the PSN.

[SonyOwnsNextYear]

LOL.......

[GIJeff]

You dont have to use an expensive bluetooth headset with the ps3, you can use the pseye OR ANY usb headset.

[Oner]

Wow that's a flip callahan09! 28 years old and wont enjoy great games because of a controller? I myself don't particularly like the 360 controller but I just use it, no biggie...but if may suggest there are possible options where you can use the 360's controller (or similar) on the PS3

1) Make or buy a modded one with a PS3 controller built inside a 360's case ~ http://benheck.com/04-14-20...

2) buy a controller that has an adjustable layout which is similar in size/shape to the 360's controller (you would need an PS2->PS3 adapter too) ~ http://www.psxshop.nl/image...

3) Try using a PC controller on the PS3 that is similar to the 360 ~ http://www.circuitcity.com/... or http://reviews.cnet.com/gam...

The last 2 you would not get the SixAxiS ability but for the most part it wouldn't matter.

[prunchess]

Great post. bubbles for ye!

[IdleLeeSiuLung]

I for one think that there is no excuse in knowingly releasing a faulty product and just makes bad business sense. This brings up the second question, would it make sense for a company to release a console they know will have to be replaced at a huge cost? For any company, profit and money speaks.... If there is doubt trace it back to the money.

So did MS knowling release a faulty console, maybe, but it doesn't make business or financial sense. I believe there is a lot of truth to the story and other parts made to sensationalize the story. So take it with a grain of salt.

MS is a software company after all, with no experience in making hardware (other than mice/keyboards), let alone a console. I expect the next console from MS to be rock solid! After a billion dollars in charges, I think the company would put it on top of their list of things to fix!

[prunchess]

MS are truly going to pay through the nose for releasing the 360 knowing full well that it was riddled with faults. Then in turn mounting a campaign to hide these problems.

There are already 2 class action suits being brought against MS in California over the 360 (disk drive and RROD). This is just the start.

I read the posts from those gamers that have yet to experience the RROD. Well you are extremely lucky. I have yet to meet a regular gamer (here in Ireland) that plays daily, that owns a 360 who hasn’t had to send his back to MS due to RROD or for a repair of some kind.

[IdleLeeSiuLung]

I play my 360 almost daily, at least 3-4 times if not more a week on lenght and for over a year now, I have not had a single problem. Works like a charm. My cousin has had his (the older console design prior to Falcon) and his only problem is disc read errors, probably cause he and his friends play it daily at lenght and he leaves it on with a disc in it running not playing for hours on time.....

There is no doubt there is a problem with 360, but the people iwht a problem will be more vocal.

[ultimolu]

In the words of my nutty Math teacher once again, I say..."That's no good."

[No FanS Land]

that's what happens when you start production of your console 69 days prior to its launch. meaning if i'm not mistaken 13th of september to coincide with nov. 22 0f 2005.

also consider the sh*tty 60mm overspinning fans.

[Elven6]

I believe Sony started production later than that, don't have the exact date but thats why the launch stock was ridiculous.

[Danja]

The PS3 launch numbers was hampered becauses of the shortage of Blu Ray laser diodes...

[BlackTar187]

I could not be happier with what there helping do this generation on pushing sony with that said.

The 360 is a terrible peice of equipment in every sense of the word. I could only imagine if these MS natural due process of products now a days was better how much differnt the frontlines would be .

[sretlaw]

Yea, but then the 360 would have been launched much later. THIS IS THE POINT, M$ rushed the production of the 360 to beat out on Sony, not to get the consumers their "game on" earlier. If they cared about the gamers, then they wouldn't have rushed a near defective product.

[BlackTar187]

I guess I just see gaming differnt then alot of people. I love games and games only the system does not matter to me sure I prefer the quality of the ps3 over the 360 but thats it the good games come on all systems so thats all i care. And once again with that said i also am very discouraged by shotty euipment and just dont understand the american (Im american california) way of just acting like it doesnt exist or the hate. I miss when games where made and played by people out of love and a good game was good no matter what system people didnt run around spewing hate over and over and over again. its the new generation that are ruing stuff the give me nowwwwwww nowwwww moreeeee moreeee sooonnnnner chhheapppppper garbage. Hell i used to play games thru a card machine.

[GIJeff]

is the pinto of consoles...

[thewhoopimen]

The 360 isn't a near defective product if repair rates are estimated at 15-16.4%. Anything over 3% is considered defective by industry standards.

[Si-Pie]

Guess ive been lucky as I had my launch machine for 2 years before it went wrong and my 2nd machine is going well. Think they made alot of mistakes and its cost them alot! I wonder what the failure rate are now? I havnt really heard of any recent ones like as of start of 2008?

[boodybandit]

I just got my elite back a couple months ago from repair. This newer model is a lot quieter than my last one. Hopefully this one will last me until next gen.

[cliffbo]

lol... but even two years is bad, don't you understand? the failure rate of the 360 has been so bad that in comparison, you accept that quality. it should last you ten years or more. i'm still playing a Phat PS2 (second hand) that is 6 years old and the only reason i sold my original PS2 (which is still working) to a friend is because i needed the money. the point is, that if you are really catering for the long term, you have to create something that caters for that time-scale, in quality and ability. the Arcade is a step away from gates idea of the DLF and without Blu-ray, 360 games are going to look last gen by the end of next year. the bad quality is ensuring that consumers are eventually going to wake up and go for the system with good quality

[Si-Pie]

Calm down wow some people on here are touchy! I never said 2 years wasnt bad I said that I was lucky as I know of some people that within 2 years they were on their 4th or more machine! But Ive only ever bought 1 360. Dont you understand? lol I understand probably alot more than you trust me!

[Bob Dole]

Bob Dole's SNES still works great. Hows that for long term yo?

[Si-Pie]

I can actually go better than that Bob as I have a commodore 64 and Amiga that still work from the 80s :).

[Bob Dole]

Nice, too bad newer consoles aren't as durable as tha ole' school.

[bigman7387]

That was actually a good read. Most of the articles that come in about this topic are usually "ZOMG MICROSOFT SCREWS EVERYONE" and doesn't actually explain anything. This article actually provided answers that I had never seen (at least in an organized way) up to this point.

It's still shame Microsoft shot themselves in the foot like that, but hopefully they realize their mistake and fix it, not just throw money at it.

[Death]

the read is 100% conjecture. They are making assumptions without actually having the facts. Three years later it's easy to make guesses, but they are still guesses. The problems that plagued the Xbox 360, PS2 and original Playstation did not become appearant until after they were shipped. As for the length of time each manufacturer spent manufacturing and developing their systems, unless you were on the hardware dev team, you have no idea how long they spent.

-Death

[xhairs9]

Confidentiality is key. He provides sources but he doesn't tell you exactly who they are giving us sure guess but at the same time, is the actual site reliable? Sure, they haven't given us a reason not to believe them yet.

Point being he even provides the source of 1 engineer who told them to stop production, but did they pay attention? No. So as of now the article is valid until otherwise "proven guilty".

[tk]

It is not conjecture as you put it... and you know it. And trying to quote other consoles does not even things out as you hope. Never in the history of consoles has such a shoddy quality product been released. And no matter how you try to spin it - MS was hasty. They wanted a year head start - and now they will drop the price to nearly the PS2 price point just to try and stay in the game.

If they took the extra year, HD-DVD would be alive and part of the XB360. Point is - they did not - they pushed it out - knowing that the thing was unreliable as hell - they were just not willing to let the timeline slip. It scratches disks, it RRoD, the failure rate is most likely 30% in the first 6 months, 60% in the first year, and 90% within 2 years. And this is not conjecture... the recall - I mean - extended warranty to three years prove it. That is a recall - without the bad press.

But... enough of these articles already. Sue MS, let them feel the class action suit like other companies - and get over it.

[Gothdom]

This was a summary of the venturebeat article. They even link to it at the end. The venturebeat article showed its sources accurately when possible.

This was a great summary, but the venturebeat article is really more deep than what we just read here.

[Death]

This is from the Venture article, "I asked Microsoft to confirm or deny 35 different facts contained in this story". The use of the word fact is being used in a way it shouldn't. If they are indeed fact, you don't need confirmation. These are assumptions that are being made and the sources are questionable at best. Whenever someone is "annonymous", they are usually less than credible. Any engineers used in the production of the Xbox 360 are under very strict NDA. What motivation would they have to come forward with information that could potentially hurt their employer? Basing facts off of an act that makes very little sense isn't good journalism.

Are there issues with the early Xbox 360 consoles? Absolutely. Microsoft ackowledged this and extended the warranty to repair these consoles.

Here's my question. This article is based on an Article originally written a couple months ago. Why is this being re-written and submitted just before the Holiday buying season approaches? It's not new news and has nothing substantial or even different to report.

-Death

[xhairs9]

Fact: approval is absurd, you having so many bubbles by now should know that the approval system on N4G is incredibly flawed. To the point that people submit a story, and then use their power (unjustly) to approve their own story without the need of having other people approve it for them (how it should be)

The problem is that it's getting close to Holiday's and people should be concerned about what they're paying for. The problem is that you feel this is of no concern to you when it is indeed STILL a concern. Whether or not it is as high a rate or whatever it may be...it is STILL a problem being faced today, 3 years after day 1.

I would have assumed you were a bit smarter than what you laid out but I guess my hopes were shot down again...in a blaze of glory...

[GarandShooter]

'Any engineers used in the production of the Xbox 360 are under very strict NDA. What motivation would they have to come forward with information that could potentially hurt their employer?'

Any number of reasons. Maybe there are people out there that actually take pride in their work. Maybe they feel the consumer got screwed and are debating 'whistle-blowing'. Maybe it's just self-preservation. Maybe they don't want that blemish on their resume, to be considered by potential future employers.

And true anonymous sources generally have something to lose if their identity is revealed, hence the need for anonymity.

[RAF-TECH]

I havent touched my PS3 ever since Playing Horde

[ultimolu]

And you call yourself a gamer?
How an you alienate one system over the other if you have both?

[Shaka2K6]

Fixed.

[RAF-TECH]

i can't help it..
The R2 beta wasnt enough for me to buy the full retail. It's too clustered/fragfest
LBP got too tedious... jump, grab, slap your co-op partner... can't wait for someone to buy it off me... EBGAMES WARRANTY included.

am I a gamer?
yes...
I'm the hardcore... the competitive edge type of gamer.
The Elite gamer you'll find at MLG and at EVO tournaments.
Gears of War 2 all the way.

[Gue1]

this is an article about the X360 and you make the first comment just to say that you don't use your PS3? lol

too bad you already gave your money to sony.. ;-)
what with this trolls with PS3 saying that it sucks? why did you bought then? go sell it and buy some more awesome X360 games!

[RAF-TECH]

What?
are you getting offended?

my gosh.. take it easy there...
I still use my PS3 to watch Bluray and to watch MGS4.
I also use it to play warhawk for jokes.

lol.
See... the PS3 aint that useless.

[HighDefinition]

That`s more than I can say about YOUR comments.

:)

[RAF-TECH]

geeez guys.. lighten up in here...
lol..

you guys need some tissue or something...

don't take it to heart... lol..

[HighDefinition]

People don`t like when people say OFF TOPIC nonsense, such as what you`ve been speaking.

Get a Clue.

[Socom]

I never will touch the 3rd60 again. I played Fable 2 over at a colleagues house. It was a horrible, horrible experience.

I vowed that day to never touch that stinkin box, 3rd60 ever again. Truth is, there is absolutely no reason at all to own a 3rd60.

And 3rd60 aint going nowhere but 3rd place.

[PotNoodle]

I havn't touched gears 2 since i completed the story mode, i've been on the killzone 2 beta! :)

[JD_Shadow]

...you gave four posts and wasted four bubbles saying absolutely NOTHING, let alone you saying anything that was relevant to what you were commenting ON!

[Sir_Ken_Kutaragi]

...is still out there'

Fox Mulder, X-Files!!! ;-D

Hmm X-Box-Files??? Will they ever find out what the Red Ring of Death is??? ;-D

[mrdxpr2]

sooo in other words u are a geek a nerd a phat looser a 360 gayboy wow ....MLG ( mayor league geek) i dont play too compete i play too have fun with friends and too pass the time if i want too make money il work... and be social..

[buy a ps3]

you don't have a ps3.

you can only dream about touching one.(it feels good)

[olivia]

your a dosh bag

[PopEmUp]

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

[PotNoodle]

I seriously think microsoft have lost alot on this console, they are hiding it not to make it look like they are in trouble like the media have done with sony.

Microsoft have been known to take huge financial hits just to take down a company, this time i think they took this massive hit to get sonys hold on the console market off, it did work for the first year but the ps3, even with the slow start, the bad PSN network (at the time) the huge price even sold faster and more than the 360 did at the same point in its life time.

The playstation name is just far too strong for microsoft to of beat it out this time around, if microsoft took the long stragey to compete with sony, then yes they would of had a much greater chance, if microsoft took their time to actually plan and study the figures of the past generations they could of saved themself a whole lot of money and ensured their console stays on the market longer.

You can disagree with me all you want, but if you look at all the sales figures, look at everything that was stacked against the ps3 and look how that got through it, which i personally think that if it was anyone else, they wouldn't of got through that - sega couldn't get through it - before the wii, nintendo would not of been able to get through it, sure microsoft would tried very hard, thrown alot of money at it, but i think in the end they would of just discontinued their product after a few years.

Look at the figures, they are not looking good for microsoft when you take into consideration what, even now the ps3 has stacked against it and it is selling amazingly well.

I don't want the xbox to fail, it would take out the competition for sony and i don't want sony to fail because it would take out the ocmpetition for microsoft, whatever console you prefer/own then you would be loosing out if one of them dropped out.

[Death]

The PS3 is selling at the same rate as the Xbox 360 yet you say Microsoft is introuble and the PS3 is selling amazingly well? Sony is in last place with the PS3. This wouldn't be that big a deal if they sold the same amount as the Xbox last gen. They didn't though, SOny held over 75% of the market the last two gens. Microsoft is approaching the same amount of consoles they sold last gen and growing. Nintendo already eclipsed their last gen numbers and Sony is selling at less than half the rate the PS2 did.

-Death

[ultimolu]

...Why does it *always* sound as if you're defending Microsoft? The fact of the matter is that they rushed a system out of the market without taking their time and patience to deliver something that actually works. If they had done that, I would have a PS3 and a 360 in my room. These problems started from since 2006 and should have been fixed *completely*. And yet people are still talking about failures?

I strongly believe the 360 does have some good games and the online service is nice but that's about it. I'm scared of buying one because I don't want to go through the headache of owning one. When is any consumer going to say that enough is enough already?

The fact is that the PS3 outsold the 360 last year. Doesn't matter what they were sold for. This year, they outsold the 360 five times in the U.S and has an impressive lead worldwide.

Unless that changed completely...

C'mon...are YOU serious?

[PotNoodle]

Has japan in total numbers, it has europe in total numbers and for most of the year has been beating it in monthly sales till the xbox price cut, even now the ps3 has been keeping up with it despite its high price and "lack of AAA games" etc.

If the ps3 can keep up with the 360 with all, still what it has stacked against it then yes, i'd say microsoft are - not in trouble, just not going to get where they want to go.

Neither system will fail, saying that they will is just stupid - just i think microsoft are setting their goals too high.

If the ps3 has managed to do all that with the xbox having the price advantage, the xbox live advantage and for a long time the games advantage and the year late start, how on earth can you say microsoft are doing as well as they hope to be?

Oh and sony have already came out and said that the ps3 is selling at a faster rate than the ps2 did at the start of its life, so where the hell did you get that from?

[Death]

At the end of 2007 sales for each were,

Xbox 360 17.7 million total worldwide sales to date.
PS3 10.53 million to date.
Wii 20.13 million to date.

In September 2008, sales were up to: http://www.joystiq.com/2008...
http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...
http://www.gamedaily.com/ar...

Xbox 360 24 million
PS3 16.84 million
Wii 34.55 million

Sales for 2008 up to the beginning of October

Xbox 360 6.3 million
PS3 6.3 million
Wii 14.4 million

I'm a little leary on the sold/shipped numbers so these are probably not accurate 100%, but from what these numbers show, sales are about even for both the PS3 and Xbox 360 so far this year.

-Death

[iHEARTboobs]

Give it a rest Death. The PS3 might not be selling as well as the PS2 did last gen but this is a totally different gen than the last. There's a whole lot more competition out there and comparing sales from last gen to this one and trying to make it relevant is ridiculous.

Also, you asked why this article re-wrote a past article so close to the holidays. Well, as a consumer I'd like to know a few things about a product i'm planning on purchasing. Product reliability is something i'd like to know about.

-Boobs

[Danja]

except that the 360 is atually at 22.3 million shipped.

dunno where they got 24 million from...

[Death]

Sony says the PS3 is selling better than the PS2 at the start of it's life? After two years on sale the PS2 was at 40 million units sold worldwide. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/...
The PS3 sits at just under 17 million.

The statement you are reffering to was the result of Sony manipulating numbers. The PS2 launched first in Japan in March of 2000. It launched at the end of October 2000 in North America and one month later it launched in Europe. Total PS2 sales one year after launch were significantly less since it was only on the market for 5 months in North America and 4 months in Europe. When you compare them to the PS3 launch numbers which have launches one week apart in Japan and North America and 8 months of sales in Europe it's not hard to see why. The initial 14 months of PS3 sales also have 2 Holiday buying periods since it launched in November instead of March.

As you can clearly see though after two years on sale, 17 million PS3 sales is less than half of 40 million PS2 sales.

-Death

[Bob Dole]

How many consoles had the 360 sold 2 years into it's lifespan compared to the PS3 with a lower price and more games? Correct Bob if he's wrong but it seems that they're not doing as good as they should be considering how much cheaper their console is.

[RememberThe357]

I like how we're all signing off on our comments now.

-357

[Death]

After 25 months the Xbox 360 was at 17.7 million. After 23 months the PS3 is at 16.8 million. I would expect sales for the next two months to put the PS3 ahead of Microsofts 25 month period, but not by much. The "cheap" XBox 360 didn't receive it's first price drop until July of 2007 which was almost 20 months after launch. The price for the 360's for the last 5 months of their two year cycle were $449, $349 and $279 for the Elite, Pro and Arcade respectively.

In the two years the PS3 has been out it has dropped from $599 to $399. You can look up the price drop dates if you would like, but the point I am trying to make is the two consoles are not that far apart in pricing especially after you add in Xbox Live and rechargeable battery packs among the other things fanboys like to throw in when comparing prices.

-Death

[40cal]

I just cant see why people who have not yet joined this gen. of gaming would even consider buying a 360. Yes people its cheap, and I think that is the best way to describe it, not inexpensive but cheap. I guess that you get what you pay for though.

[Bzone24]

" I guess that you get what you pay for though."

Like PSN?

[Ju]

No.

[Darkseider]

Microsoft solidified the position of the consumer as a "lemming" or a "McPerson". Simply because consumers continued to purchase and support their sh*tty product. This just sets the example for their next console which will be no more or less reliable and consumers will just buy into it because it's an XBox. The motto is quite simple and holds true to this day. You get what you pay for. No more, no less.

[DarkSniper]

Dark Sniper has imposed the truth on Xbox 360 quite sometime. The console is simply not meant to be on the gaming market. In an economy where quality is always key, Microsoft made it a point to intentionally swindle each and every Microslave who was gullible enough to buy an Xbox 360.

When it comes to technological failures, Xbox 360 breaks new ground. While Microsoft tends to lie to consumers, Dark Sniper can boldly assure you that Xbox 360 has a 100% failure rate. Meaning that each and every XBox 360 console is destined to malfunction within 2 years.

Which is one of the reasons why Dark Sniper has pledged his money and loyalty to the PlayStation brand. Because only Playstation products have the longevity and staying power to stay in one's living room for years to come. Sony's console is never seen as a liability and he can personally depend on reliable entertainment for several years to come.

Microsoft's pitiful attempt at a second entry in consoles was worse than expected. Their dishonesty has shown that corrupted minds will not prevail.

Dark Sniper's question to you is, how long will you allow yourself to get swindled by those demonseeds at Microsoft?

$niper

[darthv72]

It would have saved me from spending $$ to have my ps2 fixed less than a year after having it. I could have taken a vow like yours and sworn off playstation brand after getting burned like that.

At least MS footed the bill for repairing my 360. I expect my ps3 to last but if it breaks then I am not getting it repaired and will stick to my vow like you do yours.

I commend you on being strong in what you believe.

[Karum]

Pretty good article from a highly respectable source. Interesting read.

360 has some great games and features it's just a shame it's a horrible, horrible piece of hardware.

[Bob Dole]

Bob Dole remembers reading an article about a little piece of rubber you can install (thus voiding your warrenty) to fix the RROD problem. He would give a link but he's too damn lazy... you read that one?

[P]

The 3 Year Warranty on launch units ends next week.

Good luck.

[Surfman]

Ill tell you the truth. Its bullsh*t .

[NickIni]

Tell that to the people who have suffered from RROD.

[xaviertooth]

xbox 360 is a good console, that's the truth.

[P]

Was that typed before or after you learned about RROD

[cliffbo]

look, i agree that the 360 is a good machine and when it works as it should do, it's a great experience, but you need to ask yourself a few questions: do i really want a machine that i can't trust will last me more than two years? do i really want a machine that isn't offering me free online? do i really want a machine that has a storage medium from last gen? do i really want to watch DVD when everyone is going crazy for Blu-ray? do i really want to carry on downloading games that are sub 1GB when i could be downloading games from PSN that are 3GB+ with no limitation on size at all? do i want HDMI 1.3 or HDMI 1.2? do i want real 1080p or 720 upscaled? do i want a last gen controller or a next gen controller with Sixaxis? do i want an external power supply or do i want it placed neatly in the console? do i want online browsing? do i want to be able to install Linux? do i want a silent fan or a noisy one? do i wnt built in Wi-Fi? do i want connectivity with a handheld? do i really want to carry on ignoring all the above?

[xaviertooth]

i'm just kidding, hahahahahaha!!!

[olivia]

xbox 380 is a piece trash that belongs in the dump surround by flies.

[Tony600]

Even with the RROD they are winning over the PS3.I must admit that microsoft is doing a better job,this gen!

[NickIni]

Uhh. The 360 was released a year before the PS3, and has consistently been a much lower price. And yet the sales gap is approx. 4m? Compare next years PS3 sales figures to this years Xbox figures (3 years on each console) and see what it says.

If MS were truly doing a better job, the RRoD wouldn't have happened (which only happened because of Microsoft's greed) and it would be giving the PS3 a right old kicking in terms of everything, sales, quality, features ect. and it doesn't greatly beat the PS3 in any of those categories.

[Kleptic]

yeah i was curious to that as well...the PS3 has cut a 10+ million lead to around 5 million in 2 years...not even if you consider when it shipped in Europe...

it has outsold the 360's overall installed base in Europe already, in just 1.5 years...and it obviously never really was a competition in Japan, as the Ps3 outsold the 360's installed base there hours after it launched...

US is all thats left between the 2...and that is where the 360 has all of its 5 million up on the PS3...it will be a very long haul before the PS3 overtakes it there...but its constantly making up the difference in every single other territory...

[olivia]

they had a year head start and their already losing ground,if you call that better u need to get your head check.just because a console is selling more in america at the moment does not men it's dominating everywhere. plus with that year head start i talked about early left them with a large fan base than ps3 thats why it sell more here at home,but that trend will die off very soon,mark my words by next year august ps3 will catch up on all fronts with being the lead console for developers and the price drop when the almighty killzone 2 arrive.thats when the small gap between the two will grow considerable towards the ps3

[Blu Ray3]

If the 720 is this unreliable,
MS should get nuked.

[Kleptic]

that totally depends on what happens with sales around this magic 25 million mark...the Xbox 1 had brisk sales going into 2005, as it was riding a tidal wave of Halo 2 sales...but just a month into 2005, the thing hit a brick wall...even at a decent price...and MS pulled the plug just a year later...

the 360 isn't close to out of the woods yet...it will outsell the original unit...and still has some big multiplatform titles coming...but if 2009 is significantly downhill, I would expect another rushed xbox to arrive in 2010...and start the cycle all over again...MS already guaranteed that they would try to be first to the market again for next generation...

what I am really interested in is if Nintendo will actually release a 'current gen' console around then to compete with the 360 and PS3 tech wise...

[Anon1974]

If RROD wasn't an issue we wouldn't be talking about it still, would we now? 360 fans love to say RROD is a thing of the past, but retailers are reporting a 10% failure rate even on the newest motherboards - and that doesn't change the fact that the bulk of 360 owners don't have new motherboards in their systems. The fact that I'm on my 4th console and MS shipped me back a console older than the one it replaced says there is still a problem.
Secondly, yes, MS has a problem. They've now lost approx 3 billion on the 360 and now that the games division is making 400-500 million a fiscal year, they've still got another 5 years to go at this rate before the 360 breaks even, and they're expected to replace the console in a couple of years. Hell, take away revenue from XBL gold subscribers and they wouldn't be making a dime. You tell me the 360 isn't causing a problem.
Thirdly, to the guy complaining about Blu-Tooth headsets - you can get one for $20, and it's a blessing on the PSN that not everyone has one. XBL was overun with kids that can't tie their shoes but they can yell racist slurs at you with their free headsets. The fact that you first have to have $20, and then have the mental wherewithal to buy a headset from ebay or a store seems to act as a filter to weed out the problem douchbags that ruin XBL but don't seem as prevalent on the PSN.

[Bob Dole]

Bob Dole got his headset at wholesale price for $15 :)

[gano]

Ms gets credit for bogarding their way into the industry like this.
But it was more so because it was an american system. Pride wouldn't
let them admit to certain faults and truth, and hence the way
gamin is now.

Reviews are screwed, buy outs to gaming companies which now
make faulty to mediocre games, bias media input on consoles
for no reason. And gamers don't gain anything from it.

Now they even thinking of ways to charge more for used games.
Ms can do two things from here if the people allow it.
Destroy gamin with their tactics, or people realize what's
going on and have ms get out. Why are dvd9 games the same price
as blu-ray games? Even 50gig disk versions?

[Kleptic]

easy...American pride caused its problems?...it was Sony that nearly collapsed under the weight of their own pats on their own backs...if any company was arrogant, it was Sony by a landslide...but nevertheless its my strong opinion that Sony introduced the best console to the market this generation...with exclusive support from the one of the biggest software publishers in the world...

I do dislike the way MS handles the media too...there has never been a generation that has such skewed views towards a ghetto system like this...

but I wouldn't blame any of that on 'americans'...MS just has a whole lot of influence around the world...not to mention a pot of cash...their business decisions come from executives across the planet, not just the US...if they are shady, they are shady as a worldwide juggernaut, not just some Americans being stuffed full of pride...

[gano]

Huh... I said it was an american system everyone knows
the best is import. the media is bias i don't really need to eleborate on that. Sony wasn't arrogant, they were confident.

If you can take pride in what you create and know the
value of what you made u wouldn't need to slander the comp,
pay for reviews, and so forth. They did what they said
and it somewhat happened the way they said it. You get what
u pay for. That includes work too. Sony put the money out
there and know they will make it back. Ms didn't and want you
to pay more.

[bee2427]

This is the exact reason I dont own the xbox 360, I refuse to support companies that are out to make money because of their greed instead of thinking about their consumers. This product should have been pulled off the market when it reached 33% failure rate. Yet people still fight on Microsoft's side which to me is unbelievable that you guys are single handedly ruining the gaming industry by accepting this ... I'm not saying that you shouldnt own a 360 but why oh why would you be dumb enough to fight on 360's side.... this whole generation really opened up my eyes on how immature gamers can be and it partially ruined my gaming experience

[gano]

I Agree. Any real adults who know what value is would
not allow faults on a high caliber in anything they buy.
Cars, cellphones, computers, etc..

[Aclay]

I agree with you too bee2427. The RROD and the 360's hardware failures in the exact reason why I don't have a 360 either. I know that the RROD is less frequent now, but I just don't want to take a chance on it.

If I ever did buy a 360, I would get the Elite and I just don't want to spend $399 on a console that isn't as reliable as the PS3. The Elite model is supposedly more reliable than the other models, but it's still not 100% RROD free. When the 360 becomes 100% RROD free, then maybe I'll buy one.

I really do think that the Xbox 360's hardware issues have kept it from really taking off in sales and maintaining the lead over the PS3. When the PS3 first came out, the 360 had about a 10 million lead, but by the end of the first year of the PS3 being out on the market, that lead had been cut down to around 6-7 million, and right now the 360 only has a lead of about 5 million because the PS3 is at around 17 million and the 360 should be approaching 22 million or is already at 22 million.

With the amount of games on the 360 and the lower price, you would think that the 360 would have maintained that 10 million lead, but it didn't happen and the PS3 cut into that lead selling at $499 and $599 it's first year on the market.

[Ugly American]

"I refuse to support companies that are out to make money because of their greed instead of thinking about their consumers."

Before I even begin, I own all three consoles. But your statement here that you refuse to support companies that are out to make money... SERIOUSLY?! Why do you think companies exist? Sony does not exist to make people happy. Sony does not exist to provide you with excellent TV's, computers, and a gaming console that they sleep better at night. Microsoft, Sony, and Nintnendo are ALL in this for the same reason: To make money... and making money doesn't make anybody greedy. The only people without money insinuate greedy people are the ones with the money. Every company is concerned with thier bottom line... and the only reason the consume comes into the picture is when they want them to buy more.

You fanboys are utterly ridiculous. MS made some mistakes. They are spending billions to rectify that mistake. When I bought my PS2 and the DVD broke, Sony did not work near as hard to get me a replacement. All of my Nintendo consoles have worked fine... except when I was blowing in the cartridge.

Stop having blind loyalty to a company that does not care about you. By the way, none of them care about you. Play the games. Enjoy the games. As soon as you release your "ownership" of these companies, you will find that all of the games are much more enjoyable.

[ultimolu]

Has nothing to do with blind loyalty.

It has something to do with buying something and not have it die on you the first damn day.

All companies want money but it depends on how hard they work to gain your money. In that case, I think Sony's working the hardest. And it's hard to enjoy games when your system breaks down like that.

[bee2427]

ugly american-- your one of those, you know the reason why gaming is going downhill ... your saying that greed is why companies go into business, i hope not to go into business with you

and i dont have "blind loyalty" i had an xbox ... I just realised that sony cares more about their product they sell then microsoft and also more about their consumer needs... thats why they have listened to our requests and actually updated their system to the consumers wants ... i feel like i just wasted another minute of my life writing this to a complete idiot once again

[Tony600]

The xbox 360 is a little bit floppy.Too many flaws and faults!

[GiantEnemyCrab]

This is just the original Venture Beat story regurgitated. Is this all Takahashi does all day is run around rehashing the same story over and over?

Never had a problem so excuse me while I waste no more time on this and go enjoy some great gaming on my Xbox 360.

[GoldenBoy]

Did you guys read the last paragraph or two where its says Shane Kim said it is too early to call the console war in favour of Nintendo and that the winner would be the first to hit 100m consoles? After the article states that MS is expecting to sell 75m 360's this gen. At 22m consoles now and current sales trends they would need 5 more years to hit that number. Could happen sooner with price drops but the arcade is already cheap. Does anyone think that MS can hit that number? I was thinking 50m by the time they kill the console which would be a doubling of their previous performance and a great improvement.

My guess by the time each of these guys kills their consoles (estimate based on PS3 being on shelves longer than 360 and Wii).

This Gen
PS3 - 100m
Wii - 100m
360 - 50m

Next Gen (does not factor in total console sale growth assumes same size pie)
PS4 - 100m
720 - 100m
WiiHD - 50m (assumes Nintendo gimmick wears off)

[Atomic]

Who's to blame here? Microsoft? nahhh..it's the 360 owners who are endorsing MS shoddy hardware.
anybody with common sens would stay away from this catastrophe of a console, yet it continues to sell by the truckloads in the US
it is patriotism? I would say yes.

[dirtrider]

second how is it a rip off when micro fixes this problem absolutley free? if a ps3 dies 91 days after purchase will sony fix it free, better yet if it was a 60 or 80 gig with BC could you still rebuy that same unit? prolly no, since sony gimped the ps3 to oblivion and only those gimped versions are whats for sale. last time i got red ringed was june 2006. i play more than prolly anyone on this site, wanna know how i dont get red ringed- 10 bucks and common sense. rrod shouldnt have ever existed, but neither should have DRE in ps2's.

[Atomic]

dirtrider you are a perfect example of someone lacking common sense.
always excuses after excuses after excuses... please drop the apologist attitude,you're embarrassing yourself. everybody knows the 360 is the system with the biggest failure rate in consumer electronics.

"10 bucks and common sense"

10 bucks for what?? why pay $10 for anything? that doesn't make any sense, self-owned?!

[Anon1974]

dirtrider asked "if a ps3 dies 91 days after purchase will sony fix it free?"

Remember, right from the start the 360 only had a 90 day warranty. That was standard. My first 360 died in month 4 and I had to pay $170 and wait a month and a half to have it replaced. Then, based on the backlash they received they extended it out to one year. Not out of the goodness of their hearts but because they HAD TO! No one, and I mean no one would have picked up a 360 in that first year if 33 or more of them were failing and MS only had you covered for 90 days. You would have had to have been carpet chewing mad. MS had no choice. My second 360 cratered 13 months in, and again I had to shell out $170 for a repair - but at that point they had finally got around to rebating me my first $170 - so I pretty much just sent it right back. And again, the 3 year warranty was necessary, it wasn't MS spending billions out of the goodness of their little hearts.

[Kush_Reaper]

Absolutely lacking common sense.

[Bob Dole]

Bob Dole's warrenty on his 60gig PS3 was for a year. It crapped out 10 months in and they sent him a new one in FIVE days.

Oh and by crapped out it quit reading Blu-rays; other than that it was fine.

[Figboy]

the 10 bucks he speaks of is the cost of the towels he had to purchase to wrap his 360 up in.

ZING!

oh yeah, on topic, MS most certainly screwed over their loyal Xbox fanbase with the quality of the 360 hardware.

quality software is only worth having when you can actually PLAY IT.

my roommate had his 360 die on him. NOT from the RROD. the video card died. MS didn't replace it, so he ended up buying a whole new 360. THEN, ultimately, he ended up getting the original broken one fixed. he had to PAY for it.

i ended up buying the 360 from him for $150. i figured, "hey, it's already been looked at and repaired, so it might not break on me, and at $150 it was a bargain, since 360's were still going for over $300 at the time.

if it wasn't for my roommate, i probably WOULDN'T own a 360 right now. it has some good games, but i simply have MORE on my PS3, and i don't have to pay to play online. considering how much fun i'm having playing Warhawk, Resistance 2, and the Killzone 2 beta on my PS3, i would HATE to have to add a subscription fee on top of all the OTHER bills i have to pay, what with being an adult and all, and having a world that DOESN'T revolve around games. i already pay $70 for my ISP. the month LIVE would be due, that's $120. hell, that's the cost of TWO video games for that month.

i'd much rather spend my $50 on buying a NEW GAME, than for the "privilege" to play MY games online with friends.

anyway, two other friends have gone through more than one 360, and many of them have finally said "f*ck it," and got PS3's after their 360's died on them (not all from the RROD).

the 360 is simply poorly built, end of story.

and many apologists like to throw the PS2's failure rate out there; it was high, but not 33%, which is WELL BEYOND recall territory. not only that, but Sony had the PS2 disc read errors worked out by the end of it's FIRST YEAR on the market. the 360 is 3 years old now, and it STILL has these problems. that's just unacceptable.

this is YOUR money. YOU worked hard to save up enough to buy a brand new, next gen gaming console, and instead you had a system break down on you, keeping you from enjoying the games that enticed you to buy the console in the first place.

i don't know about you, but i can be rather impatient when i get a new game. hell, just the walk across the street from the game store feels like an eternity when i have that eagerly awaited game in my hands. so i can't see how a 360 gamer can rush out, buy Mass Effect, run home, pop it in the disc tray, and have the 360 DIE on them before they can even play a minute of the game.

oh, it happened. to my roommate. he was more excited about Mass Effect than I was, because KOTOR is one of his favorite games of all times (it was the RPG he popped his RPG Cherry on, so, you know, it holds special significance for him). he gets home finally, eagerly sets everything up, and before he can even CREATE his Commander Shepard, the color goes all green and blue, the screen gets wavy, then BLACK. nothing but audio.

we fiddled with the video settings for a good hour before he realized that the 360 was broken. the video output had died. i was just as eager to see Mass Effect, and we didn't get to play it until two weeks later, when he broke down and bought a NEW 360, since it wasn't protected by the warranty extension.

so far, we've had our PS3's for a while (him since launch in November, me since February 2007), and they have peformed impeccably, even when we've left it on for DAYS straight doing Folding@home.

the PS2 was no train wreck in terms of build, not buy a long shot, but the PS3 is built like a BRICK house. and for what i paid for it, i EXPECT it to be.

people love throwing out the "you get what you pay for," when snidely commenting about the PSN, well, i got what i paid for when i bought a console that was 1080p out of the box, built in Wi Fi, built in HDD, web browser, built in Blu Ray drive, you know, the WINNING format, rechargeable controllers that i DON'T have to pay for extra batteries, and yes, even free online, which has improved by leaps and bounds since the PS3's launch two years ago.

so yeah, i got what i paid for; a quality, reliable system, with games that are changing the industry (Little Big Planet, Resistance 2 and it's 60 player online, and 8 player co-op mode, Killzone 2 with it's groundbreaking graphics, and judging by the week i've spent in the beta, phenomenal multi-player, Heavy Rain, with it's amazing atmosphere, animations, and innovative gameplay mechanics; from the makers of the seminal Indigo Prophecy).

the 360 is a good console when it works, but only one of the two competitors was built with any consideration for longevity, and that's the PS3. it was a slow start to the PS3, but Sony has shown a willingness to address it's fanbase's concerns, and the PS3 has improved since then.

yes, they want to make money off of us, but they understand that a HAPPY, non-inconvenienced customer is more likely to give them more money, than a pissed off, frustrated customer that can't even log onto LIVE for 3 months (remember last holiday season, when LIVE was down for nearly 3 months?), that is, if the system wasn't dead out of the box, due to a 33% failure rate, or dead within a few months due to some other issue, or if the 360 doesn't scratch their brand new disc, rendering it unplayable.

i know the fanboys can't stand to hear it, but take it from an adult that has to spend his money VERY carefully, even BEFORE the economic recession we're currently going through in the states: you don't LIKE to feel that your money has been wasted, or waste money on things like console repairs, because what broke your system isn't covered by warranty.

i'd rather spend $130 on two new games and a PSN game, than spend it on sending my 360 to the repair shop for a problem that SHOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN AN ISSUE to begin with.

maybe when some of you younger 360 owners move out of the house and have to deal with the real world, you won't be so wasteful with your money. the 360 has some good things going for it, but for your money, there are equal, if not BETTER alternatives out there. why go through the unnecessary grief? because sites like ign, kotaku, 1up, and many others have been feeding you stories of "PS3 has no games," "PSN sucks," "Blu Ray is going to lose," "Killzone 2 will be all graphics and no gameplay," "great games like Heavenly Sword are medicore, but hey, The Darkness TOTALLY is worth your money!" for the past two years?

ah well, it's not MY money, so i guess i really shouldn't worry, but when MS and it's practices are shaping the industry, i can't help but perk my ears up when naive gamers defend buying a piece of hardware they KNOW is defective, then say, "thank you sir, may i have another!"

[robotnik]

No need to add anything to the above comments, they are all 100% accurate and define perfectly this sore situation-

[farhsa2008]

totally agree atomic, if you buy the 360 you deserve to be ripped off, anyone with a common sense would streer clear of that disastrous machine. How can you buy from a company that knows its own product are faulty?

[Bob Dole]

Because parents see it as a cheap alternative for HD gaming??

[earwax]

The 360 SHOULD be wi-fi ($90) sure.....should it have a standard 60 hd? yes. However.....it is still the best bang for your buck system. BTW the Wii is a JOKE.....if LBP were on the wii the sales would be CRAZY! why? kids system.

[kesvalk]

What the Wii have to do With all this Mess Microsoft Did?

i don't remember my Wii failing on me...

and in fact RROD is one of the thing that made me stay away of buying a Xbox, you know, here on brasil, a xbox is around 2000 bucks, how can i, a college student, can sanely think about buying a console that could fail in less than 2 months... i will spent this much on such crappy console?

and still with the PS3, even with the ludicrous price tag of 4000, is still a afordable choice, as i know it have WAY LESS chance of failing on me, while i can enjoy it until 2011~2013.

if the wii is a JOKE, then the Xbox360 is the MASTER JOKE, and a very bad one...

[Socomer 1979]

xbox360 is gears & halo. That & RROD.
Thats it. If you dont like gears & halo , your screwed with a do nothing machine.

Playstation 3 has 95% of the same games & 90% more exclusives.
How many times does somebody have to tell people the online is free?

Xbox360 has friends with headsets. So does ps3 & headsets come in style.
do you want to talk crap to strangers or your friends? Whats more important?

Tell your friends to get a ps3. Trade your xbox to get one. Dont want too?
fine by me. Just dont hate ps3 cause you got the RROD & Sony just dropped another
exclusive game.

[dirtrider]

quit hating on xbox 360 everytime an awesome game comes out for it and scores and sells well. noone can convince me that the rubbish didnt get approved because the ps3 fans on this site are crying over gears 2 success. what you going to do on nov 21st when left for dead comes out and is successful- post 2 rrod articles??? not my fault most people dont know how to set up a console so it can "breathe". sure isnt ps3 users fault when a firmware update cause their system to have problems. grow up sony fangirls

[ultimolu]

"quit hating on xbox 360 everytime an awesome game comes out for it and scores and sells well."

The same goes for 360 fans as well. They do the same crap with the PS3 and the exclusives.

And you are so misinformed about the RROD. I'm sure there are people who take very good care of their system and YET something went wrong with it.

[Ldubbz]

Seriously...remember when it was just Halo? At least people name Gears now too! hahaha...360 is THE gamer console currently, simple and plain. Why are people mindlessly loyal to Sony? boggles my mind. I had a PS1 and PS2 (and PSP...and PS3, tho I didnt buy it), and I say so what. This is just like when Sony TV's were always more expensive, but yet Panasonics were just as good if not better, and the same with Sony discman/walkmans that were always more expensive but has crappy bass and horrible headphone jacks. Sony can no longer BS off of their name alone, and they dont know yet how to adjust. But I guess as long as they have u guys....

[ultimolu]

Your opinion does not equal fact. Once again, that's YOUR opinion. The PS3 is a kick ass machine-that's my opinion.

Stop making the 360 sound like it's God Almighty himself. It's annoying.

[Bob Dole]

But teh 360 has all dee gamesz!:)

[Narutone66]

http://www.g4tv.com/xplay/f...

[caladbolg777]

---what you going to do on nov 21st when left for dead comes---
On Nov.18th, I'll drop $50 to buy it for my PC, just as any Valve game should be played.

[kazuma]

that video was awesome, 360 pretty much died from just "touching" it lolol

[Ap3theBad]

i hope wen peeps are saying 360 is outselling ps3 this gen,their talking about only america,cuz its ben provin thru numbers on pretty much every game site that ps3 is dominating over the 3fixme in both japan and europe.. so i thought id remind you dudes who say such bull.

[Ap3theBad]

lol L4D will only be successfull on PC man since it not bieng a 360 exclusive... ive allready talk to and read that most people that are gunna buy L4D are buying it for the PC. so gears2 and halo3 are the only successful games 360 or xbox in general has ever had to keep it going,but that doesnt mean thos games are good.... THEY SUX HORRENDOUSLY imo.

[Socomer 1979]

even casuals know it sucks but its priced like a psp & its more fun right now to socialize.
its all laid out for you. It has major mike sh1t-faced & trixie hoaring out a Twinkie giggle.
its great & microsoft makes sure they charge for everything.

Why do you think ps3 caught up so fast in 1 year & forced xbox360 to cost crap electronic prices.
The saddest part for big xbox fans is that psn is still growing & getting better.
I'll trade cross/game voice chat for the browser any day of the week.

Sorry you missed out because you're dead broke thanks to microsoft points
Makes leftover microsoft points that dont buy crap game related.

[Boty]

When Microsoft first started out, their first OS was basically the same way. Full of glitches and bugs. Microsoft had set a date to release and they weren't going to miss that date for the world. This is way their first OS was so glitchy and terrible. Now the xbox360 had been rushed, like Microsoft's first OS, and the 360 has major problems. But like Windows xp things will iron out the Microsoft way. Eventually.

[Narutone66]

You can't patch a hardware defect. You have to release a new hardware to remedy the defective one. That's one of the reason why xbox 360 have more console sold, because people with a old defective xbox 360 are buying new ones which are also defective.

[dirtrider]

its called a fan do you know what self owned means??

[silvacrest]

i agree with most of the above but i wanna add something

buying a product without knowledge of its failure rate is one thing (i my self was in the same boat with my 360) but supporting the product even after knowing the truth is just stupid and

@dirtrider "if a ps3 dies 91 days after purchase will sony fix it free"
lets be honest here, the majority of PS3 wont die 91 days after purchase and the only reason m$ does it is because they have to, cheap unreliable hardware needs more "help"

[divideby0]

from one rip off to another...MS rips customers off with hardware, now they are doing the same with Live.

I was a charter gold member who went off autorenewal earlier this year, the other day, I really wanted to play GOW2 online..signed up for live gold for a year (got it for 35 bucks) and had to call the Live support group. After 45 mins of getting the run around, I wound up talking to a supervisor who was the biggest nitwit and loser and lier than the other 3 techs I was on the phone with earlier (at least they were somewhat helpful. At least I got a reference #, the supervisors name and called back (for another 30min wait) and reported him. Now lets see what they do...My guess is nothing

[zornik]

The first Xbox 360 consoles r the worst consoles ever made and Microsoft is paying the price for it.
For me personaly....i'm happy with my Xbox 360.My first one broke 2 years after launch.Sold it (after Microsoft fixt it for free) and got a new one for 50 euro's extra.
I got the new version with HDMI,etc....and i think these new consoles can make the RROD a part of history.
I like the X360 for the games and Sony can't give me those games.I don't need a PC or a PS3 so the extra money for Xbox live is still cheaper.
I play 75% of all blockbuster games on the X360.....only 1 system for the best PC and console games money can buy.That is the power of the X360....i don't need another/extra system.
I like the PS3 but i think to buy one in 2011....when the new Xbox is going to launch and i need something to wait for another hardware problem to get solved.(sorry for bad englisch)

[cmrbe]

..the x360 is a very expensive toaster.

[djevolve]

The truth is 360 will win the war.The reason being is that the ps3 is losing so much money on the ps3. They gave price cuts to early to deal with the poorly selling ps3. By the time they are able to give another price cut xbox will be able to answer back with in a few months.
-
-
-
-
-
-
THIS WEEKS SALES
SYSTEMS--TotalS
DS-------590,349
WII------527,317
XBOX 360-255,371 LOOKS LIKE XBOX IS AHEAD.
PS3------213,284
PSP------182,872

[Oner]

Your information is outdated (Sony has been making a slight profit on PS3's for a little while now) and misinformed by showing only 1 week of sales..But you keep thinking 1 week shows the true demographic & trend. The rest of us will go by YTD #'s which show the PS3 ahead in ALL regions.

[karlostomy]

Is the ps3 making profits on its hardware?.... link please
Is the ps3 making profits on its new 80gb sku?..... link please

Or is the ps3 ONLY making profits, because games sold well at MGS4 release?

Have ps3 games been selling well lately? (LBP, Socom, R2?)
if they haven't, you can kiss those (very slim) ps3 profits goodbye again. Surely you would have to agree with that oeice of common sense?

Margins are tight.
And they have already lost over 3.3+ billion on the ps3!
In fact, they have lost more on the ps3 than they ever profited with ps2.
http://www.n4g.com/industry...
http://www.efluxmedia.com/n...

[Blu Ray3]

if that's true,Sony should be concerned.

I know the RROD cost MS a pretty penny too,but nothing like that.

I hope Sony comes out O.K.

The Playstation Brand is too valuable for real gamers to lose.

360 fanboys should be concerned if Sony discontinues the PS brand.
That would be apocalyptic to us gamers on a whole.

[Oner]

Your attempts at baiting me will not work Karl...you are a known & verified biased supposed "gamer". But I will post the links as soon as I find them and that will be all I will say. I wont have to bother with saying anything more than that.

[Oner]

http://www.gamesindustry.bi...

"Nikko Citigroup analysts have upgraded their rating on Sony, anticipating that the company will start to break even on the PS3 in August.

If correct, this would be three months earlier than analysts have previously speculated. In January, Sony's Kaz Hirai said that the company would be shooting for profitability within the fiscal year that began in April."

Now even if that article is off by the 3 months as stated by other analysts that would make it VERY close to todays current date (November) PLUS the information provided by Kaz Hirai of Sony showed they where expecting it to be as early as April earlier this year to show a profit.

But I will concede that it is not the 100% sure proof I had read as I can't find the original article I came across about a week and a half ago or so. I'm not trying to argue with you knowing your past post history so take my link & information however you want to.

[Kush_Reaper]

You xbox owners really got shafted by the Micro$haft. Really? after all this plot and scams that Micro$haft has fed to you, you still manage to support such a coperation.

The level of ignorance is truely staggering. After my first RROD, not scratch that, after reading such a disgusting ploy attempt by Micro$shaft i would get rid of the console before it fails or burns down my house.

But narr really this is unacceptable.

PLAY BEYOND NOT BEHIND

[xg-ei8ht]

1)I'm surprised at death's total comitment to a piece of sh^t company that is M$ with no respect to it's consumer base.

2)The 360 is in trouble, they are in low price bracket now, and are not selling like they'd hoped, this will get worse.

3)I'll state this now. The 360 will never sell 75million, NEVER> It does not have the legs. And soon, if what i've heard is true, the 720 will be out quicker then you think.

4)With respect to games etc, It depends on what you want.

Both have good games.

But i think the ps3 now has more diveristy. and this will only get bigger.

Large Games base is where sony excels at and this gen is going to be no different.

On another note.

Wii is not a gimmick, it's a very well built console.

Try mario kart,boxing,tenis,golf etc, you'll see what i mean.

I played mario kart earlier, it may have those cute graphics, but it's a very good racer.

And the size of the wii is also sweet.

Small,tough,nice dvd drive,wifi,usb.

Works a treat.

Been playing both ps3 and wii, pc fills any void.

[Death]

I have a PS3 60 gig, a Wii and two Xbox 360's. An Elite and a launch Pro. After one year, my PS3 intermittently does not recognize the Blu-Ray drive. It usually finds it after a reboot or two. It is no longer under warranty. My Wii worked for all of 10 minutes on Christmas day. After pre-paying Nintendo for another Wii, they sent me a refurb and credited my account about 3 months later after they received and processed my warranty request. My Elite has never RROD'd or had any other failures. My Pro has RROD'd on me once and was covered under Microsoft's extended warranty for three ring failures.

Last generation I had a Dreamcast, Gamecube, 2 Xbox's (a launch unit and Halo Edition) and of course a PS2. The DC, GC and Xbox's worked flawlessly. I bought a total of three PS2's. My first DRE'd on me, the second had a disc load failure and later DRE'd. The third is a slim that has been great, but rarely used. None of the PS2's were repaired under warranty so I was fortunate enough to buy new ones.

The gen before that I had 2 Saturns (U.S. and Japan), Nintendo 64 and of course a Playstation. Saturns still work to this day, N64's seem bulletproof with no moving parts, and I went through a total of 4 Playstations. Number 4 is new in the box. None of the Playstations were ever repaired under warranty.

This goes on to the introduction of the Atari 2600 and Pong before that, but all that does is show my age.

For all of you still reading this post, this is why I have no problem sticking up for Microsoft, of all my consoles that have failed they are the only ones to ever acknowledged a higher than expected failure rate and done something about it. I have logged thousands of hours on my Xbox 360. I honestly expect it to fail sooner or later. I can atleast understand with that much use, something will probably give. My PS3 has seen maybe a couple hundred hours of use. For the BR drive to get alzheimers is completely out of the question. Worse yet, my $600 system which is a little over a year old isn't even under warranty any more. One year, with proof of purchase is it. Nothing more. I have a decade of loyal ownership spanning three generations of consoles and that is what Sony can do for me. Does the Xbox 360 fail more frequently? Probably, but they atleast took responsibility and increased the warranty to three years. In my shoes, who should I feel more loyalty to?

-Death

[ReBurn]

I feel exactly like you do. I've been playing video games for nearly 30 years and if it's been released in North America I've owned it at some point. I never had issues with a console until the PlayStation generation, as it were. I didn't own a Saturn until much later, but I had a PlayStation and a Nintendo 64. The N64 still works, but the PlayStation's CD drive now only selectively reads discs. It was one that was built with the plastic drive rails that warp so easily.

The next generation I had a PS2, an Xbox and a Gamecube. The PS2 was one of the fabled launch units that people were clamoring for. It died from the dreaded DRE 98 days after I got it, which was just over warranty. Yep, the PS2 launched with a 90 day warranty in North America. Since PS2's were relatively tough to find I sold the broken one on eBay for pretty much what I paid for it and bought a new PS2 when Sony was able to get more into the stores. That one still works, but the drive tray sticks a little. Both the Xbox and the Gamecube still work perfectly.

So far this generation I've had one RROD on my heavily used 360. My PS3 still works fine and so does my Wii. There are four of us in the house that play games a lot, so they all get considerable use. My 60GB PS3 is out of warranty, too. So I'm going to be ticked off if I get a drive failure. But I'll probably pay to get it fixed and go on with my life.

[TheNocturnus]

I must agree that the 360 is a pos piece of hardware, ive had mine since launch. Unfortunately it does have the best games and most reliable wireless controller. The games on the 360 arent as buggy as the ps3 and it has a kick ass online system so you take the good with the bad.

[P]

Did you say F-I-F-T-H 360?

[Kush_Reaper]

Bought a 360 on launch day because i couldn't wait for the ps3 to get here. I think this is the sole reason for alot of 360 within its first year. Many people such as myself just couln't wait and wanted to know what the fuss was about the next-gen gaming experience.

But within the first 6 months i soled my 360 aqlong with 5 games and put a preorder for the ps3. Havn't turned back since. To be hornest i think the ps3 lauch games where much more fun and versitile, with the exception of cod2.

PLAY BEYOND NOT BEHIND

[mrdxpr2]

um i got too disagree with u on the wireless controller part i made a test with my ps3 and a 360 and the ps3 controller works better and the signal is longer allot longer we made a 50+ feet test with the ps3 controller with a wall in between it and it worked fine...when we did that with the 360 controller the controller wasnt responding half way with the same wall in between actually once we passed the wall the controller didn't want too work the lights started flashing

and the online play ive played XBL with my bro call of duty and sometimes u see constent gitches and lags...now on psn it has happen but alot less soo i must say psn in my case is better then XBL in my house..

[TheNocturnus]

yes it is my fifth 360. but i have never once paid to get it replaced. Microsoft had better make their next system more reliable or i may have to buy a ps4. I just dont like the current line up of ps3 exclusives, (resistance, mgs4, warhawk etc...) every good game that is on the ps3 is also on the 360. And the 360 has better exclusives (mass effect, gears, fable 2 etc...) I just like them more, sorry.

[andron]

The 360 is a real successful failure. But we all knew that already.

And what MS says or doesn't say really doesn't matter. Fact is fact even if MS will never say so officially...

[Ldubbz]

...that it is a great machine. Sure the repairs sucked, but what made me stick by MS was the fact they came out and gave everyone a three year warranty as soon as they knew the problem was widespread, not to mention refunded money to anyone that paid for a repair. I had RROD once, sent it back and got a replacement in a week and a half. For me its just a gaming machine, so I can deal with that.

Sony is no stranger to recalls (exploding laptop battery anyone), and committed something atrocious with the PSP. What u ask? The supposed motherboard fiasco. In order to thwart would be modders (?), the PSP can brick...you could just pull out the battery by accident while it was on and it could happen.

Now Sony never said a peep about it, never offered any help, letting people believe their motherboard was done. A cottage industry emerged, with people offering to 'fix' motherboards or send out replacements...eBay had tons of bricked PSP's for sale. What changed? Pandora's Box...a hacker built program that could magically unbrick PSP's, since the REAL problem lied in the battery's EEPROM. Did Sony ever help anyone? When they KNEW exactly what the problem was? No.

Just like DRE with PS2. These things happen, but these are just gaming consoles folks. Thankfully the PS3 and Wii are relatively error free (though I have had BOTH freeze up on me b4, but that maybe an isolated thing, who knows), and new 360's are as well.

[JD_Shadow]

It shouldn't happen this often to this many people who are on their third or fourth 360 now, though. And MS shouldn't be acting like they aren't at fault for any of it when they clearly are. That's the issue here. They KNEW the hardware wasn't ready, and they went and launched it anyway because they wanted to get a jump start.

And with the PSP, you're giving examples thinking that people would usually HAVE to rip out the battery of the thing, which they don't, and you would have to be rather brave to want to do such a thing to begin with (if you HAVE to replace the ION battery, which I haven't in my two years of owning one, you shouldn't try to force it out).

Sorry, but I think your claims are unfounded.

[Anon1974]

..Microsoft extended their warranty because they had to, plain and simple. If they hadn't they might as well have taken the 360 out back and put er down - because no one in their right mind would have purchased a machine with a 30% fail rate and only a 3 month warranty. Xbot's like to point at the PS3's 90 day warranty and complain. "Microsoft has 3 years!" 90 day's was the standard for this type of electronics, and when you're fail rate is less than 1%, 90 days is just fine. Originally, when I purchased my launch 360, my console died 4 months in and I had to shell out $170 to fix it. After 1 year it went again, and again I had to shell out $170, which they had just rebated back to me from the first time so I was just giving it back again. Had I known 1 in 3 360's were failing I would have never, never bought that system. I would have waited a year until the Wii and PS3 came out. Fact is, Microsoft lied to consumers, mislead and covered their blunders up and hopefully consumers and the courts will hold them accountable for all the people they duped into buying their product - like me. I'm on my 4th console and the 3 year warranty is up this month. I hope it holds out for me to finish Gears 2 and Fable 2. If it doesn't, it's not being replaced. Obviously, the majority of gamers out there decided not to take the chance either and have been opting for the PS3 and Wii since their release over the 360 the world over.

[Dareaver1]

but since MS has done something about it, they are holding themselves accountable.

None of you could address what has happened prior to the 360 with the ps2's and ps1's. None of you...

All i keep hearing is that MS rushed, so what, they are holding themselves accountable. They admitted there was a problem, and gave people a free fix for 3 years if it ever reared it's ugly head.

But that's not enough for you 360 haters. You want MS to go back in time and fix the issue before it happens. But i'm sorry, they haven't created time travel yet.

That's what i don't understand. All you haters here on N4G that hate the 360 and don't even want one are here complaining here, I guess, for those without a voice..... I don't know what you guys are trying to accomplish.

I could understand if MS did nothing, then there would be a reason to be in an uproar, but MS has done something. Why all the fuss?

It's just retarded to keep beating this dead horse. Drop it already. You don't like the system, you don't like it's games, yet you obsessively come on here bashing it. That's completely asinine behavior.

Grow up, what's wrong with you people. And then i see some posts worshipping other companies, as if they have done nothing wrong, when they have a well know track record with all their products. What is really wrong with you people. Fanboys and fans be da*ned, this sick devotion is getting scary....

Edit: @Darkride66.... companies don't have hearts. It's called accountability and responsibility. Why don't you tell me why Sony didn't acknowledge their DRE problem before the class action lawsuit? What happened there. I mean since you are looking for goodness in a company. they are here for money and profits, and they have a responsibility to their share holders. I'm sure they consider that you might enjoy their product, but at the end of the day, they are here to make money. I can't stand talks of goodness, when in reference to major companies. Some of you really are ignorant (lacking knowledge). Or you have a detached sense of reality.

And where do you get this they lied to consumers speech from. Apparently you are on N4G just a tad bit too much. They didn't and still haven't released information on the actual percentage of failures. But i see you, like all the 360 haters on n4g, have plugged in that fabled 33%. Wow, just more fanboy fodder. Stop the nonsense. They admitted they did not know of the issue until the release of the console and they started getting complaints. They then contributed the problem to the quality of the solder that they used on the motherboards. It was because of a restriction where they were manufacturing the consoles, in Mexico. But the addressed the issue, and made a way to compensate those afflicted. How many companies with massive issues ever do something like that. Not that many show accountability.

[Anon1974]

Dareaver1 had a few complaints about "360 haters". I, for one, have been a 360 and original xbox supporter since their initial launches and I'm still buying the odd 360, despite being on my 4th 360 and despite the terrible service I've received over the past 3 years from Microsoft. That's why I feel so screwed over, because I was a supporter. You said "None of you could address what has happened prior to the 360 with the ps2's and ps1's. None of you..."
Why the hell would we? Sony's problems from a decade ago have zero to do with me being on my forth 360 console. You might as well point the finger at Ford's exploding cars - it might distract but it doesn't absolve Microsoft from what they did to unsuspecting consumers in an attempt to make more money. You think it's great that Microsoft did something, as opposed to abandoning the 360 with it's 90 day warranty. Great. Who does that serve, Microsoft or consumers? If Microsoft wanted to do something they would have recalled and fixed the problem and here we are, 3 years later and still one in 10 360's is destined to fail. I don't expect Microsoft to go back in time and erase the problem - I just want a 360 that works. I don't want a refurbed unit that is older than the unit it replaced, like they sent me last time so I can enjoy Fable 2 and Gears 2 without worrying about having my console on for longer than 45 minutes.

[KARMA2009]

TRUTH IS IF WASNT FOR HALO,THERE WOULD BE NO XBOX .

[Kush_Reaper]

I've said it and i will say it again. The 360 is a two game console(gears and halo for the not so inteligent). How can a company claim they have a games console when all they do is fork out large piles of money just to advertise two games.

See i live in Sydney Aus and all 360 ads are just gears. What about the other so called AAA games? Guess Micro$haft has proven that you can ride the sales just of two not so stella franchises.

PLAY BEYOND NOT BEHIND

[kesvalk]

okay okay, i agree with you kush, but you can't say that halo ins't a good game.

i never played gears, but i have played halo, and i liked it...

it's not a shadow of the colossus or a mario 3, but it's a good game, and the best grenade mechanic i ever saw in a fps game...

[hotrider12]

the truth is

inside the 360 gerbal is runing in a mill and they tried out quickly, thought the 3 red rings was lunch time!!!!! so they stop working. thats how red ring of death became they killed the gerbal's

[Funky Town_TX]

I have owned consoles made by Atari, Nintendo, Sega, Sony and M$. And I think that by far M$ makes the worst hardware in the world. POS comes to mind when I think of M$ hardware. BTW, never had RROD on my launch console.

[NFGC]

Seriously, how low can a human being/company go? How can any company release a product with 68% defect rate to the market? It doesn't matter if this is a console, a video card or just a cell phone. The fact is it did not pass the QA, and it should have been fixed before they put them on the shelves.

To make things worst, some gamers will even go so far to praise MS' bandage approach is just absurd. Wake up people, this is not the business practice you should be supporting. Why? Because we are the one biting the bullet.

[XT-1000]

Poor xbots

[hulud86]

Well said Bob

[ForROME]

Seriously, we all know, MS knew it was faulted and said "send them out anyway" and didnt think a second longer about it. It was cheaper to repair them then to make new ones. To me thats a liability to a company. Only in video games can they get away with this. TVs? No way, Cars? No way, Notebooks? No way, Video games= Fan Boys who will go to the depth of hell and back, evidence anyone who is on system number 3 or higher and still holding on to dear life is evidence. Get it repaired then bury it, before it buries you...

[lelik]

bluetooth man....

[bohemian 23]

I really like my 360 but anyone who can't admit it's a piece of sh*t isn't very honest. I've had 2 crap out on me and everyone I know that owns one and I do mean EVERYONE has had to send in their console at least one time. My buddy just had his Halo 3 box crap out but he was smart enough to get the Best Buy warranty so he just got to go exchange it for an Elite. So in all 8 people I know with 360's have had to send them in.

[Ace-Jury]

that i cannot work out

[hotrider12]

DANG!!! EVERYONE IS FINALLY ON ONE ACCORD ABOUT 360 TOOK FROM 2005 TIL NOW GEEZ. IT SUCKS AND WE ALL KNOW IT

[DevastationEve]

68% failure rate is a lie. out of 20+ million, you're telling me that around 14 million are defective, leaving 6 million?

so how do they roll out units quick enough to replace that amount? better yet, maybe fedex would see a spike in deliveries coming to/from MS and they at least would be able to confirm that kind of volume.

read my comment history. i predicted that this would be the time when the FUD comes out.

[NFGC]

If you read the article carefully, the 68% included hard defects and soft defects (the author called this the latent defect). Hard defects refer to the units fail at nominal operating conditions. Soft defects are the one that fail at a elevated operating conditions. This could include higher temperature, higher voltage rail, and longer run time. Now giving the benefit of doubt to MS, let assume MS spec. the soft defect at 3 years lifetime, where typically the industries are spec. at >5 years lifetime, MS would still have 50% unit that did not pass the soft defect scan.

I am sure MS fully aware the fact that they could not meet the launch demand with 68% combined defect rate if they play by the rules. This leave them up for two options, 1) release some of the 50% soft defect units by relaxing spec limit and passing requirements, 2) delay the console. I think it's not too hard to figure out what they did next.

Bottomline, for any semiconductor/CE company, 68% combined defect rate before launch can only qualify for engineer samples. Yet, MS is the first in this field to take the yield learning cycle into consumer's hand and yet so many people still failed to realize that.

[stonecold3]

IN 2009 AS FAR AS THE THE NINTENDO WII I LAUGH HOW PEOPLE SAY WII IS A NEXT GEN WHEN IT ISNT ITS OUTDATED ALREADYGAMES LIKE METAL GEAR SOLID4 AND GRANDTHEFTAURO 4 OR 5 EXAMPLE WOUDLDNT BE DONE ON THAT SYSTEM AND THE GAMES ARE OUTDATED FOR SURE AND THERES NOT REALLY MUCH HAPPENING FOR THE WII COME THIS CHRISTMAS AND 09 THE PS3 SHOULD HAVE THEM BOTH BEFORE THE END OF 09 IN WORLDWIDE SALES FIGURES

[dragunrising]

its not too often that you get an article that tackles the RROD problem and remains non-biased. It pisses me off that I had to send my console in for repairs but that anger has subsided. I am fortunate to have only sent one 360 away; many others got the short end of the stick. Regardless, I am happy as a 360 owner and see quality improving over the life of the console. When the successor to 360 comes out, you know it won't have the same issues and quality will be a #1 priority. For the most part Microsoft makes good hardware. I have two wireless mouses and a Zune that have never had any problems. My refurbished 360 has been problem free for over 2 years.

[reelife]

http://www.minhembio.com/fo...
There's your statistics retard! So god damn pwnd!
And here comes the profit.
http://www.ondisruption.com...
Read it and weap x-bot!

[ReBurn]

After 2 and a half years and one RROD halfway through, all I can say is that I love my Xbox 360. I've had as much fun with it as I've had with any other console and it's been worth every penny.

[Neo604]

RROD rocks!!!

[HunPlayer]

I own both consoles 360+ps3 but my ps3 right now at Sydney-Au Sony repair center my ps3 had a red light flashing.
i brought the ps3 when it came out in Australia it was about 900$ and now after 1 and a half year i have to pay an extra 315 to get it repaired. What now?

[stonecold3]

mine fron the local computershop but what i did is packed my ps3 up and went into the local shop and sent it back to sony for repairs i was charged $80 for mine causwe when iwas watching a bluraym ovie mine jumping in picture quality so mine wentr back to sony fro repairs and they couldnt fix mine so what i was offred back was $930 and i had to come back up with an another $80 to get a new ps3 with resistence and motorstorm pack since i had my ps3 replaced mine as been working like a dream now and hasnt ever done anything like that to me anymore did you try to take it to a shop and do you still ahve your dockets

[JD_Shadow]

Not quite sure what you just said.

[gamfreak]

HA HA the truth is poor xbots have been rape by M$ again and again without them knowing.... Poor thing...

[Ironmantrunx]

I kinda assumed it was something along those lines. Just from personal experience of people that I'm friends with that have Xbox360's (I got a PS3, PS2, and a original Xbox) 4 out 5 replaced at least once, 2 replaced twice. It's a shame it really has some great games, but as an IT person I got to say its a crappy piece of hardware. Meh.

[stonecold3]

and when i was sitting there to watch a movie all of a sudden the picture in the movie was like jumpy so i rang my locla computer shop up and they said bring it back to the store which i did and they daid they would send my ps3 back to sony to have alook at it and i waited more than 2 weeks and i finally rang teh store to find out what was going on with it and if they heard any news about it they ghave me sony australia number i rang them and told them what it was doing and they had told me to go back to the shiop where i brought it from and i had a cheque from the store i brought it from it was like 1000 dollars upon launch here in australia i was refunded my money back to me but lost $80 to have it checked out by sony they couldnt figure out what it was doing either they tested but i had to come up with another $80 to get the new ps3 that was the 60 gig bundle with motorstorm and resistence

[USERDANTE]

they solid 23 million units because of rrod

[PS360PCROCKS]

Another one of these? give it up people.

[ForROME]

People wont give it up, MS has given them a cause, and its supported by documentation at MS. Thats pretty sad, I too loved my 360 until 3 went out, as a grown man, you dont keep buying something that doesnt work..period.

[kewlkat007]

MS will learn from it's RROD mistake.

It's no surprise some continue to buy. The console Hardware came out sh^tty early on but the games+XBL continue to appeal to the masses.

[Anon1974]

When my 3rd 360 went in for repairs I vowed not to buy anything on the 360 that I could get on my PS3, and I downgraded my XBL to silver. I found the PSN to be an outstanding service and I don't miss anything about gaming on XBL. And since Halo 3, I haven't bought a single game for over a year until Fable 2 and Gears 2 came out. Everything else I wanted was available on my PS3. Far more people own either Wii's, PS3's or PS2's than own 360's. Obviously the consumers have spoken and they're not really supporting the games and XBL as you contend. The majority of them are buying Wii's. And it isn't just the price anymore. The 360 has been the cheapest console on the market for 2 months now, and still the Wii has doubled their sales numbers for the same period worldwide.

[kewlkat007]

I have never had issues with my ELITE 360, and have been enjoying mad games. I bought my PS3 for Fighters(+1 controller), JRPGs, and Racers and looking at the 360 MS got them beat with titles. I guess I'm still waiting. I don't like shooters on the PS3(-1 controller) and really that's all the PS3 has been delivering this gen as the top games.

Oh well enjoy.

[KrazyFace]

Could you imagine walking into a car dealership and asking to see this years latest model, being presented with a slinky sexy car and saying "I'll buy it" only to be told after paying that there are three little lights under the dash that, once all have lit up you and your family will be a smoldering mess on the side of the road. Would you even concider buying that car? I think not.

[Anon1974]

Can you imagine picking up the latest Hi-Def tv and having the salesman say - "Great TV. One in 3 will fail, but they'll ship you a used one for up to 3 years, but only if it encounters a certain problem. And if you want the freedom to put it where you want to your house that'll be another $100. Oh, and it has slightly sharper color but only if you pay $50 a year extra. And the new model will probably be out in 2 years. That other TV over there has color so similar you won't notice a difference and it's problem rate is one in a thousand, it has a Blu-Ray/Divx player built in just for kicks but it only has a 90 day warranty and costs a little more, about the same as the $50 a year for possibly sharper color that you may not notice. Shall I wrap this up for you?"

[Minted]

I think Ps3's are quite unreliable aswell. I am on my 3rd ps3! the disc drive keeps breaking

[Anon1974]

Sorry to hear about your problems, but less than 1% versus 30%. Not quite the same thing.

[XBox RRoDed again]

WTF?
Lies lies....don't listen to them fanboys....Jason360 come to my rescue!! PP? Come on guys help me out here ....HELP!!!..............(RRoD )

[Tha Beast]

I know Microsoft was hiding the fact that the only reason they are in the lead is because of RROD. I was going to buy a 360 but people kept telling not to. I'm glad I waited. You don't have to agree with me but truth will come out soon!!!!!!!!!

[GamingGeekPS3360]

"I have tried to verify the facts. Microsoft has never disclosed its actual return rates. But according to data obtained by VentureBeat, the total number of returns climbed above 1.2m consoles early last year. That is a huge figure, considering Microsoft had only shipped 11.6m consoles to stores by the time of the writeoff in mid-2007."

"By the end of March 2006, Microsoft said it had shipped more than 3.3m consoles to retailers. But there was a growing "bone pile" of more than 500,000 defective consoles in a warehouse at Wistron and a repair centre in Texas - either duds off the factory line or returned boxes, according to sources."

If you read the article almost 2 million xbox was replaced? and thats is in 2006 and 2007 kinda? How many people had to return their Xbox360? Thats almost 10% of total install base?

My 360 is having an issue with its DVD drive...when I hit eject it would not open at all its sometime may take about ten minutes before I can insert a Game for my 360..usually when thats happens I play me PS3....I have not had the RROD but my brother and best friend has
replaced their 360s

Class action Lawsuit Baby...........no product should have a 10% failure rate?

[darkjanus]

I admit that some of the games on the 360 are very good, but it has no real exclusives as most port to PC pretty quickly *cough* Mass Effect *cough*

But this is the main reason i refuse to buy a 360, quality. Failure rates have been played down by some and exaggerated by others but it seems to pan out to roughly 10-15% of consoles. Hell thats between 1.1 and 1.65 MILLION consoles. I had a first generation PS2 and in the seven years i played it only one thing went wrong, and that was after 5 years when i had to realign the optical laser in the DVD drive. If a company is willing to ship such a shoddy and down right crappy console then im sure as hell not going to buy it.

EDIT: when i say crappy im refering to construction quality. It has good graphics but its more likely to brake down that a fat emo who finds out hes out of razer blades

[quantae06]

Well, atleast the new XBOX 360 models (Falcon) are doing a lot better.