U.S. Attach Ratio Shows Xbox 360 Shooting Ahead

According to NPD data and analysis compiled by Gamasutra, the XBox 360's tie ratio -- a comparison of software units sold for every hardware unit -- is now 8.1 to 1, overtaking the Wii and PlayStation 3's significantly lower tie ratios.

"They can be an indication of the health of a system," says NPD Group analyst Anita Frazier, on the value of tracking tie ratios. "If a hardware system is doing gangbuster sales, then the tie ratio can go down even if there are lots of overall sales."

Gamasutra obtained the following up-to-date statistics on the lifetime tie ratio of the major next-gen consoles in the U.S., up to and including September 2008.

[Omega4]

With 16 AAA must have games on the 360 you wonder if an attach rate of 8 may actually be quite low

With games like Fallout 3, Mirrors Edge, Banjo, Gears and Prince of Persia yet to be released those 16 AAA games will turn to over 20 by the end of the year, and each will easily sell over 1ml with gears selling well over 3-5ml copies by the end of the year likely pushing that attach rate to 8.5-9

[PimpDaddy]

The most games. The best games. Highest attach ration in the history of videogames. Proves that 360 owners are gamers. Thank you Microsoft for focusing on games instead of movies.

[ultimolu]

This was expected, especially in the United States.
But worldwide could have a different story.

[PirateThom]

Highest attach ratio?

Didn't the PS2 have an attach ratio of like 14?

[chaosatom]

yes Omega, Banjo is going to be a super AAA title.

[Karum]

I think you might have a point with it seeming a bit low. I'd imagine that rate would be higher if it wasn't for piracy, by how much I have no idea but surely it would be higher. That said though the attach rate is pretty good.

[sonarus]

Hasn't the attach rate always been the highest amongst the 3 consoles.

If you look at that data its quite clear the PS3 is already catching up. The attach rate for 2008 is pretty much neck and neck for PS3 and 360. But 360 1yr lead was obviously a huge advantage for them

[Smacktard]

Makes me wonder why the 360 has such a high attach ratio. It doesn't have very many exclusives, let alone critically-praised exclusives.

[green]

You do know that there are some people that own a PS3 strictly for blue-ray.If you check their collection you won't see a single game, unless it came bundled with the system.

I can't think of a reason why anyone will own a 360 for anything other than gaming. That is one of the reason why the 360 attach rate is higher because they don't have a skewed install base.

[ultimolu]

green, and there are people out there who actually buy games for the PS3 *and* bluray movies.

It's an entertainment center, not just for bluray.

Seriously.

[green]

Did i state otherwise?I know 2 people that dont own any game on their PS3's.They bought it last year when sony was heavily promoting blue-ray in the uk .Sony even went as far as having kiosk's at airports selling the PS3 to people on the strength of their Blue ray abilities.

My friends got theirs on a return holiday trip at a PS3 Kiosk at Victoria Station London(PS3 kiosk's dont exist anymore).They are not gamers in any way what so ever.
But the rest of my PS3 owning buddies are all gamers and own the PS3 strictly for gaming.

All i am saying is that the PS3 has a skewed install base.Which i don't see as a bad thing.

DO you think its a bad thing that they have a skewed install base?

[iHEARTboobs]

I did click it and it wasn't worth it. haha

[Karum]

I'd argue that the 360 does have a skewed install base, in a sense.

How many people bought multiple systems because theirs broke down or upgraded to a new SKU (the Elite).

Either way the install base for both won't have been affected much due to both points (yours and mine) but I'd hazard a guess and say there are more 360s in circulation due to SKU upgrades and replacing busted machines than there are PS3's in circulation, purchased for the sole purpose of being a blu-ray player and not a gaming machine.

[lowcarb]

The PS2 had the worst attach rate known to man kind. I believe it was like 3 to 1 which is pathetic for selling them many consoles. It's going to be hilarious when 360 surpasses them with even less consoles sold.

Edit below: Dude shut it already and just admit that the 360 is kicking Azz! Your attempt at trying to slant the obvious fails by a mile and shows nothing more then the fanboy inside of you. The Wii and PS3 are nothing against the 360 when it comes to software sells and this is something that will continue for years. Wii should by wiping the floor and so should PS3 since they are apparently suppose to have the games this year lol.

[eagle21]

Looks like PS3 and Wii are moving for the kill fast.

Wii 5.5
PS3 5.3

PS3 is moving real fast for how many units the Wii has sold. 360 is meh as usual. Basically, the year head start is the only real reason why it's higher. Nothing in 2008 to brag about. PS3 is up 73%. That's worth bragging about.

[green]

The same can be said about any system.I had 3 PS2's because they always broke outside the 1 year warranty but Sony counted my money 3 times as sold to 3 different consumers.At least none of the 360's sold till this present day are outside the 3 year warranty.

To me it's actually pretty stupid of anyone to go and buy a completely new system due to RROD when you can get it fixed for free.The only 360 owners i can see upgrading are people that want to buy a newer system that has an hdmi port.

But how about people that bought the 20gig PS3's and later upgraded to either an 80gig or a 40 gig skw when space became a problem?Not everyone knows that any HDD can work with a PS3.Or people that bought a 40gig, realised that there is no backwards compatability and then traded it for the MGS4 bundle with full backwards compatability.

The fact remains that if Nintendo,Sony or Microsoft says they have sold 10,000,000 units, that does not mean that they sold 10,000,000 units to 10,000,000 unique customers.

And speaking of skewed install base i will be joining the blue ray band wagon hopefully be getting a free PS3 in a few weeks just because i would like to own the dark knight on Blue ray.

[Jinxstar]

Green. 3 year warranty only covers RROD.

MS counts consoles shipped not sold. Ala "You get a new console due to RROD" Thats a shipped item. Hence a sold item.

[Fishy Fingers]

Highest attach rates.

(worldwide)
NES ~ Total - 8.096
Gamecube ~ Total - 8.945
Xbox ~ Total - 8.945
PS ~ Total - 9.367
PS2 ~ Total - 9.885
http://forum.pcvsconsole.co...

Edit: That^^ was 2006 PS2 might be higher now.

[ultimolu]

Well green, fine then.
But I'm getting a little annoyed with people just referring to the PS3 as being just a bluray player.

It's also a videogame console as well.

I see the disagrees work their magic these days.

[green]

Just ignore them.

[lowcarb]

Thats not good for having 100 million consoles sold, and if you would of been talking about US sales then the Xbox outsold PS2 in software at the time.

[wallace1000]

I totally agree that people shouldn't be calling the PS3 just a movie player. The PS3 is definitely more of a media center than the 360 but then again i do believe that many people did buy the PS3 purely for its blu-ray capabilities. For about 6 months at futureshop they were giving away PS3s with sony HDTVs in order to push blu-ray, so that will definitely hinder the PS3 attach rate when people get a PS3 and just play movies with it.

[tocrazed4you]

artard... they included the sales of games for the xbox 360 when it was first released A YEAR AHEAD OF THE PS3 AND WII of course the attach ratio will be higher look at the one just in 2008 see how much lower it is... The ps3 is catching up and the wii did sell more in 2008 than the xbox 360.

[Karum]

You make a few valid points that I agree with, each console will have a skewed install base in a sense, you basically just built on what I said and expanded it to another platform. No doubt there are some people that did buy a new PS3 to upgrade their hard drive but for anyone that read the user manual I think they'd know you cna upgrade as I'm fairly certain there are instructions in there on how to do it but ofc I believe you're right not EVERYONE will have known about it, I know I didn't until I seen an article on how to do it on gamespot of all places.

I'm sure a decent number probably "upgraded" to that BC MGS4 bundle too, at least the hardcore that were willing to spend the money on it that really wanted BC, how many that would account for remains to be seen.

I'd agree with what you originally said about some people buying it solely as a BR player but I think a lot of people (I don't think you're seriously one of them though) overexaggerate how many people will actually have bought one solely as a BR player, I think the percentage would be very low.

I think what we can agree on and probably leave it at is that the install base for the 2 consoles at the moment are both somewhat skewed for one reason or another, how skewed it is is something I doubt we could even speculate on with anything remotely like an accurate figure (percentage or otherwise).

I'll give you bubbles for sensible discussion as it is appreciated :D

[Xbox is the BEST]

observation lowcarb.

[cmrbe]

1. The x360 came out 1 year before the PS3.
2. The x360 mostly caters for the hardcore gamers that tend to buy more games.

Number 2 is also the problem with the x360 long term. For the x360 mainly focus on gameing alone. Its experiencing decrease in sales since Launch. The PS3 for example appeals to a broader market with the fact that its multimedia functionality is unmatched hence not ONLY gamers buy the PS3.

The collection of PS3 games is increasing. I counted about 500 x360 games to about 300 PS3 games. Naturally this would lead to more x360 games sales but in time the PS3 game collection will catch up and so will the attach rate.

[Mini Mario]

"1.1 - Couldn't agree more
The most games. The best games. Highest attach ration in the history of videogames. Proves that 360 owners are gamers. Thank you Microsoft for focusing on games instead of movies."

Now im not a mathematician or anything (so plz prove me wrong). But if the wii has approx 2x more systems sold....doesnt that mean they will sell twice as many games anyway..........purely based on systems sold being twice as much.

Say the attach rate for its 30 (or whatever it is) million consoles is 5.5

And say the attach rate for the 360's 15 million conles is 8....doesnt that mean they would still have to sell more consoles to literally sell more games than the wii. Coz really that attach rate is for systems sold as well...and as far as i know the wii has sold twice as many....

So really how does that mean anything?

[PirateThom]

I'd love to see the world wide attach ratios.

I can imagine Europe and Japan being a lot different.

[ultimolu]

I do too as well.

[Gam71]

What about this? what about that?
what about the story at hand?
What if it's not a different story for the rest of the world?

Of course when you don't like what the story says dismiss it and look elsewhere to bag on the system whilst making yours look good.

The true sign of an insecure owner.

edit: then prepare for ps owners to have Japans attach rate dissected and twisted to suit them or just dismissed.

I guess the amount of traded ps2 games and the adolescent age range of it's owners would also be considered a bad thing?

For games to be traded they have to be sold in the first place and I doubt the age range is different for ps3 owners. Sure a lot of coffin dodgers might have bought them but the bulk will be the same as 360 and wii.
It is teenagers and students who buy the most consoles.

[v1c1ous]

360 in japan has a higher attach ratio than ps3 as well.

but the again, not a lot of hardware means software sales in comparison are bigger.

[morganfell]

There is another issue at hand as well. They say attachment rate and I say attached? Orly? No they aren't that attached. Go into a Gamestop and look at the wall of traded in 360 games. Something should be said for quality, not quantity. Mass sales does not equal quality but rather it is often mere susceptibility to advertising influence and seeking the game you don't want to run down and trade in after a day or two.

Maybe something else should be said for the average age of 360 owners and the short attention spans that come with adolescence. None of these factors are being considered. Yes the 360 has a higher attach rate. No issue. But if you like quality then such numbers are not the best litmus test.

@Gam71, the type of thing you talk about happens here all the time. How fool proof are you if I start looking at your past postings? You aren't because the same thing you accuse others of can be found in your own posts.

If you want to see real insecure owners go to metacritic and look at what the anti-LBP and anti-R2 crowd are trying to do to titles not even out yet. There is no where near the reciprocation on 360 titles either. That is real insecurity.

S before you climb up on your Hi ho Silver, make sure you tidy your own house.

[v1c1ous]

that is one of the most retarded arguments i have heard on N4G....

go into a gamestop and look at amount of titles returned? have you seen the ps2 section?

[morganfell]

You mean the 360 is a last gen machine too with as many titles as the PS2 has produced over the past 8 years? Wow, better tell the world history is wrong. And in the local Gamestops around here the 360 wall almost equals the PS2 wall. Thanks for pwning yourself in public.

And where do you get the audio versions of the board on N4G?

[Gam71]

You'll see that I don't go into ps3 threads and spread lies. I do however challenge ps trolls when they come into 360 threads to hijack.

I guess as i'm a 360 fan and not putting up with the lies on here i am "tidying my house" Now if you could stick to yours and stop soiling mine that would be appreciated.

You want to talk about fans hating games on other systems?
forget lbp and r2 and look at gears and halo?

Go to their threads on here then go to lbp and r2 threads and tell me who is insecure and trolling.

Hint, the ps threads are largely clear whereas 360 threads...
well you're here so that proves my point about spreading lies and trolling.

[morganfell]

Laughable. Another self pwner. Been in any LBP threads? Yes you have. What about threads discussing if Sony lied? Yes you have. Over the past two weeks you have behaved but when one goes back a little further there are plenty of PS3 threads you have entered and your comments have been, shall we say, less than kind. Or truthful for that matter. So you can stop already with the wounded pride and innocence business, it reeks of an emo mindset.

Again, go to metacritic and show me how they have driven the scores of Gears 2 down to an absurd level. Actually don't. You talk about people dragging something in from another story and the first thing you do in response to my comments about LBP and R2 is to say, "Oh yeah, look at Gears..." Blah blah blah. You know, you are doing exactly what you accuse others above of doing. Getting off track. Nice try, actually not, because it doesn't fool anyone for a second. You are as those you accuse.

And acting like LBP isn't the most trolled and attacked game on this board is a joke.

[Gam71]

Plenty of times in ps3 threads spreading lies? Nope.

I have been in the open zone sparring with nasim, pain and lord yoshi but even thats a rarity and only in retaliation to there constant need to attack the 360 so try again.
Oh about about sony lying I didn't post anything they hadn't said and i had the links to back it up whereas you are making assumptions.
I'm nothing like you. You're here spreading lies in a 360 thread and in the gamer zone. Reading your comments you haven't behaved... well ever and certainly not in the past few days.

fail.

you act like lbp should get 100% scores. ps3 fans here don't accept that anyone can choose if they like it or not but they should.
Yet when someone likes halo they're all over them and the game.

oh and halos scores were lowered by ps3 fans
http://www.metacritic.com/g...
and gears
http://www.metacritic.com/g...

but you chose not to see that didn't you.
PS fans acting like xbox fans your accusing but being quiet about their actions
Proving my point.

and you fail again

And do you honestly believe that lbp is the most attacked?
too human? anything halo? anything gears? anything 360.

They do say you see yourself in others.
Well I havent been in the ps3 open zone attacking the ps3 so i don't know where you get that from
Go get a clue.

[morganfell]

You act as if someone can only spread lies in the open zone. Now you are just being naive. You did what you did, the guilt is all over you so anything else you have to say in cries of innocence are well tainted. What a joke.

HALO3 user score is 7.4. Surprised? The game has been out for a year. Maybe someone didn't ike it. Whereas LBP ISN"T OUT YET OR DIDN'T YOU KNOW THAT? Yet it already has a lower score than HALO 3 based on more votes as well.

The Gears 2 SCORE just started dropping in the past 2 days. Apparently you are just now trying to leap to the defense of Gears 2 or else you would have known this was discussed on the metacrtitc boards as a form of retaliation BEFORE IT EVEN BEGAN. How long did you expect PS3 fans to stand by? Where were you with that longsword of justice? Hmmmm? You weren't there or you would have known about this situation. One more debater ill prepared and cut down by the facts.

That which you sow shall you also reap. I am an atheist but you deserve someone to get biblical on your ass over this.

Fact: The LBP scores and R2 scores were rammed down long before the Gears 2 score. 360 fans are just getting what they blatantly asked for. Because nothing makes a demand more loudly than an action.

I chose to see all of that. Yes I did. Only unlike you I chose to see the facts rather than what makes me curl up at night and sleep well beside an overheated 360.

Using Too Human with the damnation that titled recieved is a joke. and you are asking for what I am about to do to you. Just remember, you dragged Too Human into this so here are some facts for you pal.

How many Reviewers gave Too Human 100s or 10s? So when Too Human has ass review scores it can be expected it will have ass user scores. That's what happens when a game is ass or didn't you know that. I guess you chose not to look at all those Too Human ass scores.

YOU FAIL...AGAIN.

HERE IS WHERE YOU ARE REALLY WRONG:

The scores for Too Human range from 90 to 20. The user score is 7.3. Of the Review scores, 54 are at or below the user score. Only 21 Review scores are above the user score. If anything, 360 fans have done their level best to inflate the user score.

YOU FAIL...AGAIN. THANKS FOR PWNING YOURSELF, IT WAS WORTH A LAUGH.

[Halochampian]

after reading your posts... how old are you?! seriously??

You are acting very childish with your immature "YOU FAIL"

and you, my sir, are the person "pwning yourself" in public.

[Kuest]

Morgan, you would be wise to simply "tread softly out the backroom door" of this debate. Your initial declaration, regarding 360's attachment rate IS without a doubt the dumbest argument I have ever come across in N4G, as Vicious correctly noted before me.

You delirious spiral into the social merits of USER reviews only further demonstrates your lack of focus, and genuine interest with regards to this particular article. Literally, i could discern little more from your post than an incoherent logomachy of vowels and constants; words and sentences miraculously combined together in a way that would make even a 2 year old seem intelligent.

In response to your argument regarding 360's attachment rate, the fact of the matter is the numbers speak for themselves, not only in Attachment numbers, but game sales as well. Clearly, someone is buying, and considerably more than most PS3, or Wii consumers.

Of course, if you disagree, please provide evidence that the PS3 boasts higher numbers than the 360 Attachment Rate, or that the 360 numbers have been inflated/misjudged by the NPD. Otherwise, kindly troll elsewhere.

[Gam71]

Morgon, since when do you use facts?

I only skimmed your thread as I thought it would be pointless.
And I was right.
Seems people agree with me.

Keep trolling and accusing everyone else of doing what you do.
Keep blaming xbox owners for doing this first and remaining oblivious when ps fans do it first.
And keep ignoring the article and whats in it then changing the discussion to something not even remotely to do with in the hope you'll win.

Anyone-The xbox is getting a dashboard update soon.
you-the ps2 sold 120mil consoles. Has the 360 done that?
as a made up example but I wouldn't be surprised if you have done that before.

[0verdrive]

his arguments seem fine to me. granted, they may be a bit off topic, but they are clearly stated and supported. firstly, i dont think anyone is trying to dispute that 360 attach rate is higher than ps3. however, if you actually look at the graphs, they show that the disparity between the two systems is closing. finally, the arguments morgan posts about deflation of scores really is a big deal, and does show that there is a fairly large userbase(who obviously have not played and probably will not play those sony based games) who are fanatically brand loyal and will unethically try and sway people away from purchasing said title.

[Kuest]

Perhaps, you should visit my glass house, breath easy, and inhale the clean air without the miasma of weak sauce comebacks. Again, if you hold Morgan's comments to be true (with regards to attachment rating), PROVE IT.

In response to Overdrive's response: My friend, you need to supply some sort of evidence to back up your claims. With regards to USER reviews, did you not read the editor's comments at the bottom of the metric page? Such opinions are not absolved into the overall critical consensus, but are rather treated like a forum for gamer expression, which will always turn ugly. To reference such actions, especially within this thread, makes little sense, as they cannot possibly affect game sales, or its critical PERCEPTION for that matter.

Professional reviews are stellar thus far, period. No one cares about user reviews.

[green]

"Professional reviews are stellar thus far, period. No one cares about user reviews".

@Kuest: You definately struck the nail firmly on the head with that statement.

[0verdrive]

i think it is unfair to say that NO ONE will be swayed by user reviews. granted i agree that the majority of everyone looks at professional reviews but there are some people out there who do take user reviews into account when basing their decision to buy. to assume that everyone is going to disregard user reviews would trivialize their existence all together. if everyone believes that user reviews do not actually mean anything, no one would go out of their way to deflate a games score, which many people seem to be doing now.

about the facts, i assume you are referring to my claim that the disparity is lessening, and i base this off of the fact that the ratio of xbox:ps3 is getting smaller, and the software per console ratio is growing evenly (slightly in the ps3s favor, according to those graphs), when comparing sales in the past. im not claiming that ps3 is beating 360 in any way, im just saying that with more ps3s and static software growth for both systems, its doing much better than seemingly everyone here believes it is.

EDIT @ KUEST
i suppose we agree to disagree about user reviews. i still think that they hold some bearing on whether or not some people who are on the fence will decide to buy or not. how much it affects people, perhaps a little, perhaps a lot, but i believe they are worth something.

on a side note, hooray for civilized discussion. i havent been on this site for long, but i am really irritated by fanboyism already. cheers for civilized and intelligent discussion

[Kuest]

In essence, one must acknowledge that its inherent utility is not necessarily to provide another source for consumers to sift through, but rather to allow users a forum for expression.

Your analysis of the PS3/Xbox AR difference is excellent, and thus I award you bubbles for your valiant efforts. However, I maintain that Morgan's comments were not nearly developed as yours.

[karlostomy]

Whose is it i wonder?

[iHEARTboobs]

360 appeals to gamers whereas the PS3 appeals to gamers as well as those interested in Blu-ray. If you're only interested in games you more often then not might lean towards the 360. If you want both, the PS3 is the best option for not that much more.

[kornbeaner]

Thats always a good sign, given the growing economic issues that plague this country it's good to know that people are still willing to pay for a good time.

One a side note I am surprised to see how well the PS3 ratio is doing, this time last year I remember their Attach ratio being 1.3 or some pathetic low@ss number.

Viva gamers and thier open wallets, the only people not worried to spend money as long as they have a good time with it. If the rest of the country were the same way we wouldn't be having these economic issues right now.

GAMERS FTW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Captain_Sony]

PS3 never had an attach rate that low. it was around 3 or so until around Nov of last year when it hit 4 games. I guess it was a good move by Sony to sale partially completed games like GT as full retail. The 3 or 4 they did it with really seemed to have padded the attach rate and makes things look much better than they did. .

[iHEARTboobs]

What 3 or 4 partially completed games are you talking about?

As for GT:P, it wasn't priced at full retail, it was $40 when released, not $60. With that $40 customers received one of the best, if not best, looking racers out there with a good amount of cars, tracks and online play. If people didn't think it was worth it they didn't buy it. It's a prologue.

[kornbeaner]

http://n4g.com/News-15824.a...

Follow the link Captain, I wasn't wrong.

I was just off on the timeframe but the attach rate was exremly low at one point.

[Nugan]

My big surprise from this article:

The Wii's ratio (5.5) is almost indentical to the PS3's (5.3). I expected it to be considerably lower, given the perception that many consumers buy the system only for Wii Sports and/or Wii Fit.

Perhaps the fact that Wii games are, on average, cheaper than those of their competitors, encourages more sales than you would expect.

As far as the Xbox ratio is concerned, this doesn't surprise me for North America. It does not seem either high or low, considering the amount of time it has been on the market, the number of systems sold, and the quality and quantity of available titles. It will be interesting to see if we'll have a closer fight a year from now, since both the PS3 and the Wii are expecting a number of major titles in the next twelve months.

[cherrypie]

Xbox 360 is outselling PS3 in Japan 6 weeks running. Xbox 360 outselling PS3 worldwide. LBP delayed. SOCOM shiats the bed and goes TERIMNAL flop, totally Dead on Arrival. Xbox 360 attach rate "shooting ahead". NXE incoming. Gears of War 2 about to break sales records (you watch). Fable 2 gets fantastic reviews. Left 4 Dead about to be a breakout hit. Banjoo Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts getting rave previews.

Are *any* sony loyalists ready to admit that maybe -- JUST MAYBE -- Sony might be getting left behind here?

[ceedubya9]

the Wii is also home to some sequels to old favorite Nintendo franchises like Zelda, Mario, Smash Bros., and Mario Kart. You can probably throw Metroid in there too. The Wii fan base is composed of a lot of casuals these days, but it might be safe to assume that there are some Wii60 or PSWii gamers out there that are at least buying these games to go along with the Wii Sports and Mario and Sonic at the Olympics games. I think that ratio doesn't surprise me too much.

[Capulous]

Does the bundled Wii Sports count toward the attach rate? If so, that automatically gives it a +1 to every system sold.

I have around 15 Wii games, most I regret purchasing. The only ones I enjoy are Wii Sports, Wii Play (I play these with my two nieces), and Resident Evil Umbrella Chronicles.

[titntin]

Careful mate - your comment came dangerously close to being rational and with little bias - both things that are no longer appreciated by the majority on here.

As for the attach rates, it would be suprising indeed if a system thats been on the market longer didn't have more game sales per unit, certainly in the earlier years of a machines life.
If I bought games at the same rate for my 360 and my PS3, I'd have twice as many titles on the 360 because I've had it twice as long. Its not rocket science, but the 'boy warriors' will spin it till your dizzy...

Just another day on N4G :)

[pavarotti]

going by that, then the ps2 should have an attach ratio of 30 games to every console! considering how long it's been on the market, is as cheap as chips and still has a section in every game shop.

[Citizen Cook]

No, because then it would be a PS3rd, flopping all the way back to Japan.

PLAY BEHIND DROIDS!

Way behind!

[razorbladelight]

huh

[Captain_Sony]

I dont see it shooting ahead of anything really. It got a year head start so of course the attach rate will be higher. The most telling thing is that PS3 has a LOWER attach rate then Wii but according to some uninformed PS3 fans games on Wii do not sale at all. Goes back to what I said a few weeks ago. PS3 fans make their own console look bad in their lame attempts to attack another console that like it or not, more people seem to be interested in. I like my PS3 but not so much that I can not ignore reality or make myself look stupid by saying some of things they say.

[ultimolu]

Newsflash: They both do it. (360 and PS3 fans)

[iHEARTboobs]

Fanboys in general say wii games don't sell so lets not let the 360 fanboys off that easy.

Anyhow, with so many Wii's being sold one would think they'd be killing with the attach ratio. Unfortunately, they basically only have 1st party games that are good. And is Wii sports included in that ratio? It does come with every Wii correct? I'm just curious if it was used to determine the ratio.

[Smacktard]

Wii has lots of great third-party games. It's just a shame that fanboys of all sides (PS3, 360, and Wii) ignore this. Zack and Wiki, No More Heroes, Mercury Meltdown Revolution, Geometry Wars Galaxies. They're all great exclusive games. Many more good exclusives on the horizon too, most courtesy of Marvelous (Muramasa, Little King's Story, NMH2). And these are all just off the top of my head.

But I always was under the assumption that most Wii owners only ever bought Wii Fit and Wii Play. It's a shame because there are many great games out there that should appeal to everyone.

[green]

5.5 is impressive considering how much hardware nintendo have been able to push states side. But the difference between the wiis attach rate and consoles like the 360 and ps3 (especially the 360) is that if you take away their 1st party offering then you would realize that the attach rate would be appalling.

But the attach rate for the ps3/360 are more evenly spread out between 1st party and 3rd party games.So 3rd part devs and 1st party devs are more likely to make more money by releasing their games on the 360 or ps3.

edit: but thinking of it the ps3 has way less than half the install base that the wii has the US, so is the lower install base with respectable software sales not supposed to make the PS3 have a larger attach rate?

But you could counter that by adding the low investment cost's in making a game on the wii as opposed to the ps3 or even the 360.

[Voiceofreason]

Nice fanboy post there Green.. God you idiots just dont stop.. Now you are trying to make some lame justification by making more false claims.. Doesnt matter if its 1st party 4th party or 8th party. Wii has a higher attach rate then PS3.. Deal with it fanboy and stop crying

[green]

Some of you guys on N4G trully amaze me.People like you that are constantly dishing out insults left,right and sadly off centre is why i hardly comment on this site anymore.

I said let me put a spin on the wii sales.Do you actually know what a spin is?please do some research because spinning is basically distorting the truth a bit and which is what i did intentionally.If i felt i was stating facts do you think i would have used the word SPIN.Did that warrant you calling me an idiot?or maybe thats the only way you can ever get your point across.

Edit: "Wii has a higher attach rate then PS3.. Deal with it fanboy and stop crying"

Are you calling me a sony fanboy?

[bigman7387]

I wonder if they include the 5 "games" included in the arcade bundle as part of this. Because if they do, that would be reason that the attach rate is 8.1. I agree that as of now, the 360 has the largest library of games, but it isn't leaps and bounds above the others (IMO).

[green]

NPD does not not count the sales of games that are bundled with a system, especially games that are not sold seperately and only comes with that system.thats why you will never see wii sports or wii play in any NPD data.

[Gam71]

fail littleman

[bigman7387]

It was just a thought gam

[NeoBasch]

I'm going to assume these numbers are better than last generation's during the same period of time. Than that can mean only good things for the industry. I've never been more excited. This generation could very well be better than the days of yore. I don't care which console ends up with the crown, but I'm proud to be a consumer for all three systems.

Then again, occasionally, it can kind of get frustrating knowing you're dragging other gamers' *blink* *blink* *ridicules self* Try to remain professional. It can be hard sometimes knowing that you're paying top dollar when others just download it for free. Pirating software is immoral. Regardless, I won't bother to lecture you if you are. You have enough common sense to figure it out yourself. Just know that we are tired of continually fueling this industry "alone". We shouldn't have to inflate those figures at all (My collection: PS3 - 14, 360 - 14, Wii - 8). Its punishment.

If you are a pirate, please let this be a new start. Help us keep the industry strong. *pleads*

[Bullseye]

but charging people bucket loads of cash for a game isn't? No, my friend,pirating software is illegal, not necessarily immoral!

[sajj316]

Lets be real here. Not only are $59.99 games pirated but so are bargain bin games for $19.99.

[Xi]

It's companies stealing things you purchased from them.

If you buy something on an online store that has DRM then try to move your collection to another system it's a violation of the DRM and is considered criminal.

Priating things ensure that you can keep them, and even hard copies don't allow that (spore, only 3 installs).

[GiantEnemyCrab]

bu bu bu but piracy is killing the 360 and dev's are abandoning it!!?!

owned!

[Bullseye]

but the argument for that one goes like this. The reason software is so expensive is,because for every copy sold, 10 copies are pirated!!
Kinda cyclic, this one. Chicken and egg :)

[GiantEnemyCrab]

Not a bad point but I believe the reason games cost more is because they are becoming more and more expensive to make. People are expecting more from games and the resources required to make those aren't cheap.

Look at how much a movie ticket costs for 2 hours of entertainment and look how many hours of entertainment you get from a game(avg. 12-15 hours). Movie tickets are like $9 these days and there is no multiplayer haha :)

[Karum]

True, they are more expensive to make, even that recent interview with Cliff from Epic games had a mention of him saying games were shorter now because of the production costs.

However, if piracy wasn't so rife they'd be almost guaranteed of selling more legitimate copies and maybe games would cost a little less, the same thing could be applied for the huge used game market, devs and publishers probably lose out on a bucketload because of that, alongside piracy that is a HUGE amount of lost potential revenue.

[0verdrive]

just wanted to point out that abolishing piracy would not necessarily bring down the prices of games. more than likely it would just add to the profit margin for game companies. theres no reason for them to charge less than they already are, especially because people are paying up.

[Firstkn1ghT]

Piracy is not and will never affect game sales. Look at GTA4. That game was leaked a full month before the release and still managed to sell 10 million. And their are numerous threads in forums throughout the net complaining about permanent bans on their 360 accounts. Their gamerscore completely gone. OUCH!

[enjoi187]

64.19 x (2 games a month for a year) = 1540.56

POINT - WHO GIVE A SH!T WHAT SYSTEM YOU HAVE...OR THE PRICE OF IT.

WE ALL GET _UCKED WHEN IT COMES TO GAMES

[power of Green]

PS3's base is made up of game consumers and DVD consumers although that looks like Sony is doing well because they're appealing to two markets it is actually killing Sony's standing/support/game industry revenue leverage.

People are buying PS3 for movies then games on the side *or* they're buying PS3 for non game functions(surfing/movies) knowing PS3 is not suited for games and own the 360 for gaming.

[Aclay]

@ POG

"knowing PS3 is not suited for games"

The PS3 is actually the best suited for games when the devs. making the games utilize it the right way in my opinion.

If the 360 was as reliable as the PS3 then maybe I could consider it best suited for gaming, but the 360 is an unpredictable machine and I'd rather have a reliable system for gaming because gaming consoles are SUPPOSED to be reliable. I'm not saying the PS3 is flawless when it comes to hardware, but it's reliability, hardware, and quality control is far greater than the 360's and that makes a console great for gaming in my eyes.

If the PS3 wasn't "suited for games", 3rd party games like MGS4 wouldn't be PS3 exclusives and games like Dead Space, Mirrors Edge, or Burnout Paradise wouldn't have been led on the PS3.

[Lord Shuhei Yoshida]

Looks like Too Human and Infinute Unfloppery are the only games the bots can buy these days XD

[lelo]

Unbelievable that a moron like you has so many bubbles. Only on N4G.

[Sir_Ken_Kutaragi]

The PS3 has been outselling the xBox 360 in Japan(before those 6 weeks)ALL year??? LBP + White Knight Chronicles will change all that!!!
The xBox 360 is NOT outselling the PS3 worldwide so far this year???
PS3 outsold the xBox 360 last year to???
LBP WILL be a MASSIVE HIT!!!??? Only delayed for 2 weeks...SO WHAT???
SOCOM can be and will be fixed??? Easy
NXE coming??? ;-D Do you really think thats better than HOME??? ;-D
(+Do the Hardcore xBox 360 players really want baby looking Avatars???) ;-D
Gears of war 2 will be a Hit but it's nothing brilliant???
Fable 2??? Yeh it's getting good scores but it will be on the P.C next year(Like Gears 2)so no point in getting a xBox 360 for those 2 games???
"Banjoo Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts getting rave previews???" Er where???
;-D
+The Left 4 Dead video i saw looked CR*P!!!

SO???...You should ask -

Are *any* Micro$oft loyalists ready to admit that maybe -- JUST MAYBE -- Micro$ofts xBox 360 might be getting left behind here?

Seems that way to me!!! ;-D

YOU xBox 360 owners should be worried if you can't outsell the Wii last month in the U.S when the xBox 360 is cheaper???

You sound like someone who believes the LIES this site spits out day in day out!!! VERY SAD...
God you lot are stupid!!! :-/

(GOD i just wasted my time on a nobody!!!) ;-D
Never again!!!

[razorbladelight]

you call this "lot" stupid, yet I see you advocating anything pro-sony writing infinite messages about the greatness of the system and how the x-box is just crap.... ON THIS SITE... ALL THE DAMN TIME!!! What's the deal with you man, from all the ps3 lovers (since you go waaaaay beyond the typical fanboy) you are the worse. I know your loyalty to the brand is great, going so far as naming yourself after the douche that invented your crappy love system, but still, you need to calm the F@#k down.

[Imallvol7]

Definitely not a casual console, lol.

[power of Green]

We'll never know any different because the 360 is so successful with all demographics.

LOL because the 360's fanbase buys games you assume the base is not mixed. PS3 is failing because only its hardcore fans and non gamers(DVD watchers) are picking PS3 up.

PS3 has a poor mix.

[gamerdude11]

The xbox 360 has been on the market 18 months longer than the PS3 and Wii. You need to use the power of math and divide the lifetime tie ratio by the time on market and you will see that they are virtually even.

[titntin]

You should know by now - no one here likes people to make sense.

Your point is irrifutable, but doesn't give the trolls the m,aterial they like to slap each other with, so you'll get nothing but disagrees.

Apart from me I should add, there are one or two people left here who aren't blinded by love or hate for piece of plastic.. :)

[karlostomy]

You guys are unfortunately wrong.
I refute your assertions, in a friendly way, of course.

The 360 in 2007 had a higher attach ratio than the ps3 does in 2008.

attach data 2007
http://www.joystiq.com/2007...
attach data 2008
http://www.gamasutra.com/ph...

Clearly, one can observe that at a comparable time last year, the 360 had a higher attach rate than the ps3 does now, negating the year's lead argument that has been perpetuated on here, by a few people who don't like the results.

No matter. Life goes on.

[Close_Second]

...then I would be getting back into gaming on the 360 in a big way. I know, $80 (NZD) is not all that much (well, to some its not all that much) but I have 3 kids plus my wife who all enjoy on-line play. Unfortunately MS still does not have a policy of paying per console for on-line play which basically means if I want 5 separate XBL enabled accounts on the same console its going to cost me $400 (NZD) per year. Unfortunately that's too much in my opinion.

The 360 vs PS3 reminds me very much of the good ole 80s where it was the Amiga vs Atari. Both camps professed they were superior but regardless of which one was it all came down to the games and back then the Amiga completely owned the Atari, especially with multi-platform releases.

Its the same with the 360 vs PS3. Both have some great exclusives but the majority of multi-platform games are superior (albeit minor in some cases) on the 360. Therefore the 360 has a stronger overall games library...although that may or may not change over the nest couple of years.

Regardless of what anyone says we have yet to see the best of either console and even if MS or Sony sell more consoles than the other at the end of the day, Sony will have lost market share (when compared to the PS2) and MS will have gained market share (when compared to the original Xbox).

[Sir_Ken_Kutaragi]

It didn't last Month, but it was cheaper??? I don't get that???

[ambientFLIER]

I'll bite. The Wii has all the casual games that parents know, and they wouldn't consider any other console no matter the price. These are the same people that paid $500+ for them on ebay last christmas.

[ApocalypseShadow]

http://www.joystiq.com/2006...
http://arstechnica.com/news...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

if more games are selling in high numbers to hardcore gamers on 360,it means that less casual consumers are buying that product.it makes you money early on with the harcore,but if the console sales aren't increasing and the attachment of games s not lowering,it means you are selling to the same people.

example:

which is better?

1)50 million console sales/5 games per console in 3 years?
2)20 million console sales/12 games per console in 3 years?

the second seems like money is being made on a few.the first means your selling consoles like gangbusters to a lot of consumers but selling less games.it's fine in the beginning to have the second,but if it doesn't change over time,it means you hit a limit on customers and should be like the first.

just saying.

apocalypse................

[Why o why]

the finish line is now not when the generation is over...lol

[Xi]

BEcause if you don't then not only are you not making as much money back on the sales of your games, you lose more on your console.

[Why o why]

the 360 wins this console war with attach rate.............;)

[Gamer_Z]

You make a lot of sense there bubbles for you, and as for this article very interesting figures the market looks to be changing.

[Excalibur]

That's probably my fault.

I've bought a $#!t load of 360 games in the last few weeks.

Don't worry though only 9 more to buy this year.....LOL

I just hit 95 titles in 2 years.

[FailStation3]

ROFLMFAO @ the sony portion of that bar graph. truly puts their failure into perspective, doesn't it?!!!

[ReBurn]

That's got to be good news to developers. The more games people buy the more games they make for us.

[codemonkey240]

yes it dose it just shows you how stupit microsolft is

[sjappie]

at least spell stupid right, stupid.

[GWAVE]

Didn't you all know? The attach rate for consoles is ALWAYS at it's highest when it's within the final two (or less) years of its lifespan. I believe the PS2 was at around a 12 or 13 game attach rate before the 360 came out.

Enjoy your attach rate and a new Xbox in 18 months!

[ozsman]

Wow....That's the best spin I've read all day. I hope to god you don't believe what you type.

[0verdrive]

this article is not the fanboy feed that the xbox fanboys are looking for.

if you look at the figures, it just states that xbox is up to 8.1 games per every xbox owned, up from 6.98 last year it says. that is an increase for 1.1 games, roughly. playstation is up from 4.23 to 5.3 games, again, up 1.1 games, roughly.

if anything, it actually is showing the decrease in xbox dominance, as the ratio between the two systems is decreasing (not taking into account the number of systems available, as those figures are not provided). however, even taking the number of systems into account, i would wager a guess that the two markets are actually closing in on each other, rather than spreading apart. and that is considering xbox is already in the prime of its lifecycle, and ps3's i would guess is just hitting the prime of its lifecycle.

and to add my own little bit of fanboyism, the ps3's upcoming lineup looks stellar, much moreso than xbox's.

[LethalToxins]

"is now 8.1 to 1, overtaking the Wii and PlayStation 3's significantly lower tie ratios."

How can you overtake something you were already ahead of? Someone can't write.

[ApocalypseShadow]

it does mean developers will continue to make games for 360.even consider it before making games for other systems because hardcore gamers buy lots of games.

but nintendo is a fine example of attachment/console sales.

nintendo has sold over 30 million consoles in less than 2 years.wii is selling like gangbusters.attachhment rate is low.means casuals are buying it like it's the cure to the plague.

360 has sold just over 20 million in 3 years.has a high atttachment rate of 8.

somehow the rate of games is increasing but the sales of 360 aren't keeping pace.

ps3 has a decent attachment rate for its high price,but the attachment rate is hard to judge.people buy ps3 for a lot of things:bluray player,game system,linux computer,servers.no one can really say what it should be at in game sales because it does so many things well.

just saying.

apocalypse...................

[jlytle1234]

i think these are based on new sales and not used. so the attach rates could be much higher. i know ive bought quite a few used games.

[Xi]

When the new game is purchased it'd be counted to the attach rate, all used games were once new games, if it did include used it'd count games multiple times even though many would be sitting in store shelves of EB/Gamespot.

[Xi]

But it's not really a testiment to the staying power of a console.

Though the 360 does have a higher attach rate, it also many games that are "cheap" as they are part of the platnium collection or whatever. What it really means is that the 360 has a lot of games that have sold well, not that 3rd party games will sell better, or that future games are more likey to sell better.

All in all it's good, It's a plus for everyone because it means more developers are making money and less will be bought out by EA/Actiblizz/ubi or w/e.

[Road Dog]

Yeah there are huge ammounts of "platinum hits" for the 360. Yep truckloads. Give me a break. If anything the Wii has the most "cheap games" and since when did "cheap games" become a bad thing. You like paying out the ass? Oh thats right you do if its for Sony.

[Covenant]

I think the 360's primary demograph--males 13-30, who usually have more disposable income--and achievements and the main reasons for the attach rate.

I mean, I've owned more than 35 360 titles since I bought my 360 just two years ago.

[RAF-TECH]

so get to buy ps3 games.
anywho..

360 kills the ratio... everyone knows that.
PS3 is doing terrible.....

hey, i'm just looking at the graphs..

[FailStation3]

yeah, like, totally, dude. you're taking a stand! definitely.

[RAF-TECH]

air1 had a good comment about the ps3. I thought i'd like to share it

"when are you ppl going to put sony's balls to the side and realize that a 3 year old rrod system is out performing the ps3 in almost all games. mgs4 and kz2 look great but not all games get a 5 year dev time."

[0verdrive]

now, im not a fanboy, and im trying to be civilized here, but i think you should check the graphs and figures again. yes, 360 is ahead; but i really think your only taking the information that you want to see out of the graph. a year ago when there was like, 4 xbox's to 1 ps3, yes the attach ratio proved to be very significant. however, now that there is maybe 1 ps3 to 2 xbox's, or maybe 2 ps3s to 3 xboxs, the figures show that the disparity between the two systems is shrinking. added to the fact that over the last year, each system has gained approx. 1 title per every console sold, you can see that the gap is, indeed, closing. i am indeed partial to ps3, but i am definitely far from a fanboy. so before you go and whine and flame me, check the graphs again, do some math, and respond with a legitimate argument.

[Lucreto]

Well this is the US so I suspect it would be this high but I fail to see the worth of the 360.

[Covenant]

You're entitled to your opinion, but 20+ million people would likely disagree.

I don't own a PS3 but I see the value of it.

BTW, I'm not one of your disagrees.

[Lucreto]

I would like to get a 360 but there are no exclusive games of interest and most are on the PC as well so I don't need one.

@Covenant no problem about the disagree. That disagree was from me hit the wrong button. Sorry

I respect your opinion and from you mostly fanboy free comments I would add you to my PSN if you had a PS3 ;)

[Covenant]

Not a problem, my good man. As I said, you're entitled to your opinion. I just happen to disagree. I usually only click "disagree" when someone's really off-base or offensive.

[ReBurn]

I normally enjoy my PS3 and 360 equally, but right now I'm playing my PS3 a bit more. I'm just happy that the really great, non run and gun shooter games are coming out for the PS3 now. Games like LittleBigPlanet and Infamous are some of my favorite kind of games, so I'll be giving the PS3 a little extra love for a while to come.

[Spike47]

and if people buy the PS3 for movies more power to Sony.

What now? are you going to say Ps3 gamers don't play games? Pathetic

THE ONLY REASON the xbox360 has this lead in software is because
1. It had a headstart, enough to make the launch titles of other consoles seem poor to it's already growing library

2. MS had no competition to deal with in those years making it easy to establish itself as a primary console and have a larger install base.

NOTHING TO BE PROUD OF, JUST SAME OL STAT.

[EnforcerOfTheTruth]

"Omega4

With 16 AAA must have games on the 360 you wonder if an attach rate of 8 may actually be quite low

With games like Fallout 3, Mirrors Edge, Banjo, Gears and Prince of Persia yet to be released those 16 AAA games will turn to over 20 by the end of the year, and each will easily sell over 1ml with gears selling well over 3-5ml copies by the end of the year likely pushing that attach rate to 8.5-9"

LMAO what 16 AAA must have games? Sorry buddy, but 360 doesn't even have 5 AAA exclusives and truth is you are still waiting this year for an AAA exclusive ;)

[air1]

bubble for you raf :)

maybe these sony fanatics will catch on.

but who knows the ps3 is supposed to live on for 10 years im sure sony has plenty of time to get it together but by that time ill be off to the next gen first again saying blu ray dvd's? what tha? thats so out dated since ill be dl'ing my games. micro will be the first to do it since they have crazy experience in software

[Firstkn1ghT]

This just proves that the ps3 is a movie player first. I have 4 people in my family that own a ps3 with zero games but a nice selection of bluray movies. When the ps3 was the cheapest bluray player on the market, I saw Best Buy employees sell the ps3's in the movie section. I saw many older couples walk out with a ps3. Definitely non gamers.

[I Make Stuff Up]

All 360 owners must go and turn on their console and check out ANY game.
I SWEAR, they all look better than they did before this news. Don't believe me? Go see for yourself.

I don't know what happened, but all my PS3 games now look like crap and the controls are all sluggish.
It's really strange.

Thank god Wii Fit still looks OK. Phew!

[Dread]

Well regardless of what the sony fans (or anyone else for that matter) say, the fact is that at this point in time, the attach rate of the 360 in, arguably the strongest market for gaming, is very good.

If I were a developer, this would be a good sign. Hence, 360 owners can expect 2009 to be a strong year for the console.

Many more games to come.

Regarding sony fanboys, I do not know why are you being so defensive. I am sure that the playstation 3 will only continue improving their attach rate. So lets wait and see. And besides, 2009 is going to be a strong year for the system also. That is undeniable. So stop all the spinning. You sound like politicians

As of know, the fact is the 360 is ahead (at least in the U.S.)

be gamers not haters.

peace

[Kyur4ThePain]

Uh-oh.

Enjoy it while it lasts.

[air1]

i see what you mean. but no matter how many times you look at it and do math the 360 is still ahead.

this is sony they been in the game since the ps1 sony has a huge following of course they are not going to go down easy but they talked so much crap how they was going to crush the 360 and that this gen wouldnt start till they said so, well im still waiting sony..

we been hearing for 2 years and counting on how the ps3 is closing the gap. sony needs to take the lead not just get close then fall off again like it is doing now..

[0verdrive]

fair enough.

i never said the ps3 was ahead, just that the gap is closing. but i totally agree, weve been waiting for sony to do something for a while now, but they are definitely fighting an uphill battle.

[Spike47]

I don't care if there are 12 members in your family that own a PS3 and have only movies( not to mention I don't believe you at all)

The PS3 is actually a video game console first and foremost.

I can't believe that the second highest rated game( actually the best so far because GTA4 was overhyped) LBP is coming out in a matter of days and soon Resistance 2, with two good games in addition( SOCOM and MS2 and still some of you say the PS3 is a blu ray player.

[PHiSHLoC]

wutz goin on evry1...some people take this sh)t 2 serious. its nothing
more than games some people treat this crap like if they get paid.

[ambientFLIER]

"overtaking the Wii and PlayStation 3's significantly lower tie ratios."

Err, it ALWAYS had a better ratio, it never really OVERTOOK the ps3 and wii.

[chavafx]

yes i have fable 2 and i finish it twice good then evil and let me tell you is fantastic i love it is the 2nd best thise gen by far in my book/i got little big planet on the 18 of octuber and i finish the single player or canpain in 5 hours and is fantastic the best ps3 game so far i love it great month for games

[chavafx]

my gamer tag is on xboxlive (chava fx) and on psn chavafx)
check my status so you can see for youre selfs that i playd those games cant belive that i got lbp 3 weeks before relese date wow

[Irishrocket69]

All the levels of games already made, that you can make on LBP. So PSTools actually have a 1,000,000 to 1 ratio! But is this article really a big surprise to anyone? This shows you what a great on-line service can do!

[shawnsl65]

shows you how easily pirated games can persuade the purchasers ;)

[Gr81]

First off this argument of attach rates is so lame. It holds hardly any real merit or weight. I mean I never heard this argument of attach rate during the PS2 era. And didn't gamecube have the highest AR that gen? And if I'm also not mistaken, the PS2 had the lowest AR last gen. But I will say some of the comments are entertaining.

[guerojose]

While the fanboys love this stuff, does anyone bother to check the basic premise? It's no wonder Microsoft regularly trots out this "tie ratio" myth. It seems to have the desired effect: give the impression that Xbox 360 owners buy more games than owners of other systems. There is, of course, nothing that actually supports this notion.

1. Like all NPD data, this is US only, right? So we'll just ignore the rest of the world? Strike one.

2. Even if we take these numbers at face value, Gamasutra's math seems slightly challenged. What number are we using for US sales? Is it the 12.83 M per VGChartz? If so, 91 million units gives a tie ratio of 7.09, which is significantly less than the 8.1 number they conclude. Or is it one of the much larger "gazillion" unit sales numbers that Microsoft regularly claims for US sales? That would make the number plummet further. Strike two.

3. What constitutes a "software unit"? Does that mean "anything MS charges you for"? Themes? Expansion packs? No definition is offered. Foul ball.

4. Even though this fact is regularly lost on many people, a lifetime-to-date number is meaningless. If gamer A owns a console for a couple years longer than gamer B, it seems reasonable to expect they may have purchased more total games. Duh. Strike three, you're out.

Get back to me when MS wants to release some actual hard data, and not hide behind numbers that can be left deliberately vague to create a false impression. I'll wait.

http://esoesypunto.blogspot...

[Final_Rpg]

I just made a console, I'm the only one with it. I own a 1000 games. I have the highest attach rate ever.

What I'm saying is you can't compare the 360 to the ps2. The 360's install base is substantially lower. As the 360 sales grow the attach rate will not necessarily grow. Why do you all assume this?

I'd say the people that would buy the most games for the 360 would have it already. The late adopters aren't going to have as near as many games as previous owners.

[Gr81]

The market leader usually has the lowest attach rate at the end of a generation? save for the nes, perhaps.

[karlostomy]

double post