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The Truth Behind Hardcore Wii Software Sales

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A lot has been said, written, and typed about hardcore third-party sales figures on the Nintendo Wii. While numbers for such titles may not rival that of the cutting-edge systems, we may not be seeing the complete picture. It is no secret that development costs on what is basically a last-gen console "retread" are exceptionally less expensive than the current-day process. Also, it seems that today, software sold is NOT considered successful until it reaches the 500,000 unit mark. Could these facts be causing a misinterpretation on the part of gaming and enthusiast press?
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jsslifelike - contributor
Published: 106 days 9 hours ago | Article | Wii | Gaming
 
 

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Chris399 - 106 days 11 hours ago
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1 - I'm sorry but when you have a system with a 50+ million unit fanbase (and multiple users per Wii, as it's a "family console"),
selling 250K of something is nothing to brag about. Especially when your competitors, at almost 1/2 the install base (PS3/ 360) easily do 500K+ in the same or smaller periods of time.

It's obvious where the majority of the "core" audience is this gen. I'm really tired of Wii fanatics proclaiming that there is a vast ocean of "core" titles to choose from on the system. There's not. There are several gems and a few titles on the horizon, and not much else unless you are a fan of Mario (which I'm not and have never been). And if we're to talk about sales, which this article does, it is evident where the core audience is spending their cash - that being, not on The Conduit.

Demon's Souls sold around 250K and it's not even out in NA or EU yet. That is an example of a niche/ core title selling well in relation to it's install base.

Gotta get back to work. Don't get me wrong, I like my Wii, but it's definitely not where I find sustenance for my core gaming needs.

Edit @ below. What about new IPs? Not established franchises - Resident Evil, Zelda, etc., will ALWAYS sell based on name alone.
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Dringostarr - 106 days 11 hours ago
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1.1 -
You have a point, a lot of core Wii games have flopped.

Still, Twilight Princess sold 4.2 million (not as much as usual, I admit), Red Steel sold around 2 million, Resident Evil 4 sold 1.5 million, Resident Evil: Umbrella Chronicles sold 1 million and House of the Dead this year did well, and Metroid Prime is nearing 2 million with the re-release. Don't know No More Heroes off the top of my head, but I gather it did okay.

Of course there's been just as many hardcore flops.

The problem with The Conduit is that it isn't a great game, and core gamers only buy the good games. Mad World is also stupidly niche, I mean that would be a cult game on the 360, let alone the family-friendly Wii.

A real test will be this Christmas. Dead Space Extraction, Darkside Chronicles and Silent Hill... will they sell....
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Arius Dion - 106 days 8 hours ago
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1.2 - Seems
HD consoles only sell "established titles" as well if you want to play that game. So if the Wii recieved the RE5's the SF4's the GTA's they'd sell, but that's supposed to happen. I wonder what would happen to a game like HoTD if that were on the HD consoles, an on-rail shooter? Didn't Time Crisis flop big time? What about Bionic Commando? Wanted? And let the record show, when you flop on the Wii you don't go bankrupt. Flop on an HD console and its curtains.

Give the compared to userbase talk a rest, its useless baseless and really holds no weight in an argument.
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mezzo - 106 days 8 hours ago
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1.3 -
You brought a very good point to the table CHRIS.
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xztence - 106 days 8 hours ago
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1.4 - Indeed.
While the install base is very high, it certainly remains risky for new IP to get good sales on the platform.
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Chris399 - 106 days 7 hours ago
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1.5 - @ Arius. "Give the compared to userbase talk a rest, its useless baseless and really holds no weight in an argument"
That makes absolutely no sense. It's only "irrelevant" if you are a fanboy. How is that not related to this conversation?

A greater percentage of the PS3/ 360 user-base seem to purchase niche and core titles. Get over it. You can still have a Wii and have a blast with it, but convincing yourself that there are as many deep, core (note that I said, "as many", implying that there are indeed some) games on the Wii as there are on other platforms just makes you appear delusional.

Percentages matter. They are as important as attach rates. They signal to publishers and developers where to place their interests. So while you can bury your head in the sand and pretend that there is a wealth of quality, core titles being bought by everyone with a Wii, the rest of the world sees a different story. One populated by Bratz, Rabbitz, fitness games, HEART MONITOR SOFTWARE (for Chrissakes) and Mario Party/ Jam/ Spaz/ Race/ Dress-Up games being bought by soccer moms.

There's nothing wrong with that - the broadening of the gaming demographic to include women and people of all ages is great - it's just how things are.

Edit: Again, you've missed the point. Do you have anything aside from "Mario" to say in rebuttal? Anything branded Mario sells like crack in a crackhouse. Almost all of Nintendo's first party software sells brilliantly. No one is disputing that. We're talking about 3rd party and new IP software. What conversation are you in?

Furthermore, a lot of companies - ID, Valve and Epic, to name a few - just don't think that the Wii is worth developing on at this point. But you're the expert right? The Wii is a great platform for a lot of games, but it certainly isn't the platform of choice for ALL games and genres.
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Arius Dion - 106 days 7 hours ago
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1.6 - No its irrelevant
Because if that's the case then damn near every game on the ps2 was a flop "compared to userbase"

There's nothing to get over. you seem to be the one with a bug up his ass. Mario Kart outsold by itself on one platform more than the biggest budget mulitplatform game on two competing consoles, but I guess that doesn't mean much.

I guess anyone with a different perspective is a fanboy though. Fair enough.

@Ezten: New IP's are risky on any platform. Difference being a flop on Wii doesn't mean the company goes under. That's not the case for HD consoles. So if this is true which platform truly is "risky" to develop for?
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jsslifelike - 106 days 7 hours ago
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1.7 -
I think you BOTH might be correct. Isn't this the reason that we have different consoles? In order to experience the best gaming has to offer in a particular generation, you need at least two consoles. Even if the attach rate is lower, selling 250,000 copies when development tech is cheaper and cost is lower may be advantageous. I can't really say anything about all of the games ending with the letter "Z", though... ;)
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Max Power - 106 days 6 hours ago
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1.8 - Just a little note....
I believe there is no plan to bring Demon's Souls to EU. Sadly it's due to no publisher and the like.
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Chris399 - 106 days 5 hours ago
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1.9 - Regarding the "percentages/ install base/ games on the PS2" argument,
I think that people may have forgotten just how thoroughly Sony cornered the market last generation. Almost every console - and several PC - title was in some way on the PS2. It was that prolific. And it wasn't as if a new engine or tech was being created for each piece of software either. A vast majority of the code was reused from game to game, company to company. Nippon Ichi Software is an excellent example of this and made dozens of games off of only a couple of engines, so it didn't really matter if they only sold 200K - they easily recouped losses and made a profit. There was only one audience to sell to really, Sony. There weren't multiple, profitable contenders (PS3/ 360/ Wii) to spread your development dollars around to.

This belief that all Wii games are dirt cheap to make is relatively unfounded too. No doubt Nintendo invests heavily in their own software, which is why it is as polished in appearance and game-play as it is. When people cry for AAA 3rd party titles on the Wii, they need to understand that if developers invest the amount of cash necessary to create these titles, sure we will get a few AAAs, but just as many flops, and just as many studios going under as we see with HD projects. That is the risk that certain publishers and developers just aren't willing to take. And why would they when these publishers are already deeply rooted in - most instances - profitable HD development? Why incur more risk and costs?
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Arius Dion - 106 days 5 hours ago
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1.10 - Still doesn't make sense Chris.
Whether you know it or not you are proving the point of this guys article. Wii is largely in the same boat as the PS2 was in that devs recoup dev costs on a majority of their games even if they aren't clearing 500k.

No matter how you slice it Wii dev costs are 1/3-1/4 lower than the HD consoles and by the end of the year will probably have a larger installed base than both combined WW. MH3 seems to also contradict your reasoning, I'm sure DQX will as well.

You can attempt to segment gamers into catagories all you want, devs and publishers are guilty of this as well, it doesn't matter.

Gamers go where the games they like are. And if HD development was so profitable why are companies that focused heavily and primarily on HD development see more red than Compton LA?
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EvilTwin - 106 days 5 hours ago
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1.11 -
A brand new engine with brand new tech obviously isn't being made for the vast majority of Wii titles either though, so I'm not sure what your point is there, Chris. I gave a list of plenty of great PS2 titles below, and I seriously doubt Fatal Frame, Okami and Smuggler's Run are so similar that their development time was akin to a cut and dry port done on the cheap.

Compared to making an HD title, it IS cheaper to make a Wii game. Sega said HotD:Overkill turned a profit, and that's with about 250,000 copies (plus this game actually took its time and had some polish and production values). Sell that much of a decently made title on the PS3 or 360, and you're guaranteed to lose money. That's just the nature of the beast here.

If a third party invests the money for a AAA title on Wii, it'll cost less than on the HD consoles. HVS made its own customized game engine for some of the best graphics and control on the Wii, and they did it independently without a publisher for the first stage of development. If they had some better writers on staff, and some more talent in their art department, they would have created a AAA-level title. Working from scratch. Independently.

As it is, they've probably already turned a profit, or will before the end of the year. On the 360 or PS3, they'd be out of business.
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Chris399 - 106 days 4 hours ago
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1.12 - @ Arius. Once more, you list ESTABLISHED FRANCHISES as proof that the Wii is somehow a paradise for core gamers and developers alike.
Monster Hunter and Dragon Quest, honestly? Of course those will sell well - on any platform.

Again, I have a Wii and I like it, but I have no illusions about where Nintendo and the development community as a whole sees profit for the machine. And that's with casual/ lifestyle/ franchise/ shovel-ware games first, with the core demographic far, far behind.

Continue to valiantly defend the Wii's anemic core line-up. Even after Nintendo themselves has admitted that they have an issue:

http://www.computerandvideo...

http://arstechnica.com/gami...

Mario and Zelda just aren't my thing. And I'm not alone in that camp. And suggesting that the success of the Wii is in ANY way indicative of it's quality or the quality of it's software is ridiculous. Millions upon millions of people eat Macdonald's every day and as a health and fitness professional I can GUARANTEE you that there are few if any positives to that choice.

Anyways gents, let's just agree to disagree. I'm outta here for good before Sidar shows up brandishing a Wii-mote.

Peace.

P.S. The Wii is not in the same boat as the PS2. The PS2 dominated the market, owning over 80% of the market share. The PS2 did not have competition like the 360 or PS3. The Gamecube and original Xbox were all but stillborn that generation, the Dreamcast was killed in the womb and none of those systems provided any real competition or incentive for developers to stray from the PS2. This generation the market is also much larger than the last. I don't know why you insist on referencing history when the specifics of this generation are so different than the last.

@ EvilTwin, you're shooting yourself in the foot. Neither The Conduit nor House of the Dead were AAA titles. They might have turned a profit, but it was at the expense of their production values. Should'a, could'a, would'a, but didn't. We'll never know if those games would have succeeded with extra polish or marketing, because they never had it, so stop speculating. Keep in mind too, that many "core" gamers who have a Wii are also likely to have another system. When presented with a choice in this scenario, what game do you think they will choose: The Conduit, Killzone 2 or Halo 3?
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Arius Dion - 106 days 4 hours ago
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1.13 - Chris
All I am saying is that established franchises are all that sells on HD consoles as well, why you feel the need to disregard Wii sales due to "established" franchises but not do the same with the HD consoles are beyond me.

I am against the segmentation of gamers into this demographic or that demographic, I am not defending the Wii just providing a voice for another perspective which is underserved around here, but no less valid..if I do say so myself MORE valid lol.

Same boat not in percentages of marketshare but in dev costs Chris, again, you must have misunderstood me. Wii will probably outsell PS2 LTD but it would still not have 80% of the market. Some things have changed and honestly after this gen many things will not be the same.
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EvilTwin - 105 days 21 hours ago
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1.14 -
Chris -- Shooting myself in the foot? From what, you offering no rebuttal to the real cost of making Wii games vs. PS3/360 games? And c'mon, it was a laughable assertion that PS2 games all shared some secret underlying code that allowed developers to make them all ultra cheaply. (Clover studios would've loved that secret, btw.)

Conduit and HotD aren't AAA. Didn't say they were. But if you made them on one of the HD consoles, and they sold the amount they did on Wii, they'd bankrupt the dev. Not turn a profit. That's the whole point.

AAA titles have sold great on Wii. They just happened to be first-party games (I don't see anyone dismissing the sales of games like Halo or God of War, though). Third parties have been lazy. But we'll see how well games like Red Steel 2 and Shattered Memories do, as well as the Modern Warfare port.

But it's not like PS2 games all sold great. Psychonauts and Ico were favorites of mine. Maybe not AAA-level, but they had some spit and polish put to them. They sold comparably to Wii games that have had a bit of polish put to them. I don't think that's a coincidence.
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Chris399 - 105 days 17 hours ago
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1.15 - "But if you made them on one of the HD consoles, and they sold the amount they did on Wii, they'd bankrupt the dev. Not turn a profit. That's the whole point."
Pure fantasy. This scenario never happened, so why discuss it? We don't know how successful these games would have been on HD consoles. You're dense in thinking that the Wii and PS2 market are comparable - I've listed numerous reasons in previous posts why this isn't the case - and even thicker for believing that Wii development costs are minuscule.

To produce the kind of first party software that Nintendo does, or the kind of polished AAA games that people lament not having on the Wii will cost somewhere in the same ballpark as a next gen title. You do realize as well that a large percentage of PS3/ 360 games are made using the Unreal Engine 3? That itself keeps development costs on those platforms relatively low. And again, several "core" segment software developers just aren't interested in the Wii - Epic, ID, Valve - but you and Arius know better right? You're publishing house CEOs or successful software developers, I assume?

I don't dislike the Wii, but take issue with people who defend the blatant lack of non-Nintendo quality software on the system. If YOU feel that all of your gaming needs are satisfied by Mario and Wii Fit, great. It's wonderful that you are so content with the system. I'm not. I have what is at most times, a $350 paper weight ($249 + $60 controller + tax) sitting in my living room. This year I have Muramasa and Arc Rise Fantasia to look forward too and little else.

There's nothing wrong with holding a company and it's practices in a critical light. They are not our friends or allies, we hold no emotional attachment to them. It is a consumer/ corporate relationship. They are providing service relative to value. I do not see the value in my Wii yet.

Cheers.
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EvilTwin - 105 days 13 hours ago
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1.16 -
Chris -- It isn't fantasy that it costs more to make a 360 or PS3 game. It's "dense" to deny that, actually.

No, I'm not the head of a studio or publisher. But I'll listen to one like Brian Ferrell, THQ President/CEO. But I guess he must be lying, right? Because he disagrees with you?
http://www.gamespot.com/new...

This isn't a POV Arius or I created. The people who make games have said it, and they have numbers to back them up. For instance, Red Steel was supposed to be Ubisoft's AAA launch game; they messed up the controls, but not the visuals or audio or art -- it had time and money put into it. It was also a new IP from scratch trying to implement a new control scheme.

Total development cost? $12.75 million.
http://www.n-sider.com/cont...

Ubisoft's usual cost for PS3/360 developement? $20 million to $30 million.
http://www.edge-online.com/...

(Now before you say "that's AAA development only and it's skewed," the average/overall costs are also much lower: $5-8 million vs. $12-20 million.
http://www.gamedaily.com/ar... )

I never said Wii dev costs are "miniscule." They simply aren't as much -- in Ubisoft's case, HALF as much (maybe more, depending on the game), which is why NMH was a hit despite "only" selling about 400,000 copies.

You're using the Unreal engine here for comparison? Really? Compared to a dev kit that uses cooked up technology from the LAST gen of consoles? C'mon. That makes zero sense. You wouldn't say a PS2 game costs more to develop than a PS3 one, would you? Of course not. The Wii added some horsepower, but "Gamecube 1.5" just isn't as complex as the PS3.

Now if you disagree with this POV, your beef isn't with me or Arius. It's with Brian Ferrell or Yves Guillemont, or Midway's CEO David Zucker. Go take it up with them if you feel they're wrong.

I'm not a Nintendo apologist (Bioshock is honestly still my favorite gave this gen, and you're sure as hell not going to get it on Wii). What you're saying simply isn't true and is not backed up by the facts and figures publishers and developers have given for development costs.

That said, if you think the Wii is only Mario and Wii Fit, I can't help you.
Galaxy, World of Goo, Prime 3, Tiger Woods 10, Twilight Princess, No More Heroes, Pro Evo, Battalion Wars II, both Trauma Centers, MadWorld, deBlob, Paper Mario, Conduit, the best versions of RE4 and Okami...I've got my hands full with good games. And less than half of the ones I listed are first party.
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Chris399 - 105 days 11 hours ago
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1.17 - Jesus Christ, the date for most (3 out of 4) of those articles is 2006.
You think things might have changed in say, 3 years?

Quit while you're ahead, seriously.

And the Ubisoft article never discloses whether that is $20 million per platform, or $20 million total for a multi-plat game. And note that the cost of "HD" game development has been cut almost in HALF (if we reference the first article that you linked).

P.S. No where in any of my comments did I state that it costs less to make an HD game. I stated that some titles on the Wii - AAA, Nintendo stuff mostly - likely cost as much to develop. Careful reading is key. And as far as your "games list" (die-hard champions of the cause always resort to said lists), 4 have Mario or another Nintendo mascot, 5 are available on other platforms (including the PS2) and I'm not into Blobs or playing doctor. NMH and MadWorld are really the only ones to my taste. Hey, if you're happy with your Wii, that's wonderful. Other people are allowed to have different tastes. I don't enjoy plumbers, princesses or blobs, sorry.
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EvilTwin - 105 days 10 hours ago
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1.18 -
Lol, you just can't stand to say you're wrong, can you? You insist this POV is a phenomenon among people like Arius or me when it's not -- these are the devs and publishers.

But that's just not good enough. What, you think that because costs may have gone down somewhat on the PS3 or 360 these past few years, they've stayed stagnant on the Wii? Are you kidding me?

Here, this is from February of THIS year:

http://www.develop-online.n...

EA's CEO says Wii development is STILL a third to a fourth the cost of the PS3 or 360. I'll take his word over yours. Quit while you're behind. Seriously.

[Oh, and the bit about AAA-quality stuff being the same price regardless of platform? Again, Ubisoft says otherwise with Red Steel. The first link even likens Wii development with GC dev costs. "Careful reading" required, indeed.]

Your disagreement is with the people quoted in those articles, not me or Arius, so there's no point in arguing with you about it.

If you must, go ahead and tell John Ricitiello he's wrong, since you obviously have more experience than he does.

As for belittling the list...the best versions of Tiger Woods and Pro Evo are on Wii. Sure, you can play them on other consoles, but they aren't as good...just like you can play Madden on Wii, but the best versions reside on the PS3 and 360.

You can play clunkier versions of RE4 and Okami on PS2, or you can play the best controlling versions on Wii. (Or you can play a pretty lame RE5 instead.)

You don't like TC, no skin off my back. But those are difficult games and I dig 'em. deBlob is a very good platformer. Now if you want to write off that genre because it doesn't look "core," by all means, do so. But you're missing out on some great games. "Hardcore gaming" means more than blood, gore and swearing to me...although I love some Travis Touchdown murdering sprees after a long day at work, too.

I'm outta bubbles, so go ahead and get your last word in. But you should probably reserve it for someone like Ricitiello, Ferrell, Guillemont or Zucker. Apparently they're wrong and you're right, so I'm sure they'll appreciate your input.
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Arius Dion - 105 days 10 hours ago
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1.19 - Oh man
So much is wrong with your last post Chris, but unlike Evil, I'm not even going to touch it..mainly because Evil pretty much was spot on with what I would have said any way lol.

Are you kidding me? Dev costs are not and will never be comparable between HD consoles and Wii that's laughable and totally wrong, it just is what it is man.

But, hey go along living in fantasy land, it can be fun for a little while, right?

If you don't see what the Wii has to offer beyond Nintendo's main franchises, then whatever, to each is own. But don't attempt to belittle someone else's taste in games, that's just so utterly arrogant.

I don't understand what you mean when you keep talking about us 'defending Nintendo', I'm more defending the reality of a situation to the B$ some folks spew..in this case your B$.

I have a beef with third parties, Nintendo's efforts in my eyes have been excellent, third parties are the ones dumping $hit on a stick and calling it ice cream. But guess what? I don't buy the crap I buy what I like. And here's the funny thing, third parties are coming around. I guess the combination or lower deve costs and larger installed base is starting to look pretty appealing, especially in such economic times.

Shovelware has always been in abundance on the marketleading console, no more apparent than on the PS2, you know Spongebob outsold God of War? Does this matter? not really, but in your context it should.

Well, that's it for me, I'm out of bubbles..How did you get so many? lol.
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Chris399 - 105 days 10 hours ago
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1.20 - I'm aware that hardcore gaming encompasses much more than blood, boobs and guns.
I'm talking about experiences catered towards a mature audience. Mature storylines, that don't involve princesses or blobs. Do you read? And when you do so, do you chose books in the young-adult section? Or do you choose a biography or something by Paulo Coelho?

There's nothing wrong with wanting adult content in my past-time of choice (gaming). When I look at the Wii, all I have are questions. Where are the Personas? Where are the Flow or Flowers? Lost Odyssey? Even last gen we had a Eternal Darkness and Skies of Arcadia on it's fore-bearer.

Oh and regarding the EA link that you posted (and disregarding all of the ANCIENT links that you provided to back up your argument in the first place - honestly, they were three years old), what games is he talking about, comparatively? I'm sure that Carnival Games cost much less to make than Dead Space. I'll leave it up to you to decide which is a better game.

Edit: Neither one of you can read properly, it seems. I'll repost the text here: "No where in any of my comments did I state that it costs less to make an HD game. I stated that some titles on the Wii - AAA, Nintendo stuff mostly - likely cost as much to develop." AAA NINTENDO STUFF, MOSTLY. Did you grasp it that time?

I'm sure that WiiFit and MotionPlus and Galaxy cost somewhere in the neighborhood of an HD game. You two are very selective in your reading. And Arius, you really need to stop comparing the PS2 to the Wii, they're not even playing the same sport. Their circumstances, libraries and growth are entirely different (aside from being profitable).
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PowerOfGreenBoogers - 106 days 8 hours ago
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2 - Old people have heart problems
That is the true reason why the hardcore Wii games don't sell.

oh know

I can hear the 2 or 3 Wii fanatics coming to attack me.
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kunit22c - 106 days 3 hours ago
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2.1 - lol
Its funny how some people add something at the end like that hoping that it stops people from replying and if they do they seem stupid when really your seeming kinda stupid, its supposed to be "oh no" and not "oh know"

P.S. Monster Hunter 3 sold 500,000 something in the first 2 days, and thats Japan only...

Just saying :)
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PowerOfGreenBoogers - 105 days 23 hours ago
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2.2 -
Oh No i made a grammar mistake and the grammar police caught me. Can someone please post bail.

BTW the Wii still sucks. LOL
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kunit22c - 105 days 13 hours ago
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2.3 - ...
let me guess, you have a 360..
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bigjclassic - 106 days 8 hours ago
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3 - The gaming media are more into the HD console because of GFX tech.
Simple as that. Alot of those games are just PS2 games with a slap of HD paint on them. (infamous, Darkness, Turok, Crackdown, etc, etc.) They just look nice.

Also take into effect that the media hasn't been Nintendo friendly since 1996 (N64 launch). So those things you have to take into effect. Nintendo were right with their "blue Ocean" strategy because the majority of gamers are not ready to afford those high priced consoles at the time.

Usually, form gen to gen, you see a slight increase in GFX power, but the PS3/360 jumped almost 2 gens in advance compared to last gen. Nintendo just went the traditional and "safe" way when making the Wii.
And it is paying off big time.

But anytime you have one or two games (WiiFit and Wiiplay) that outsell all of your rivals exclusives (PS3 or 360)then you are doing something right. The gaming media needs to give credit where it is due.

*Fact- The wii is the only console that has 9 exclusives that sold over 4 million units and has the highest rated console exclusive to date (SMG)*
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jsslifelike - 106 days 8 hours ago
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3.1 - They may all be first or second party titles...
...but you're right- I never thought of it in those terms.
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360 Wii PS3 Yup - 106 days 7 hours ago
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4 - @Chris
And others you guys are missing the big picture. Games are not selling as much because there not as good as PS3 and 360 games. 3rd party devs dont put any money into making quality wii titles. The Conduit is ok, its not a great title, its way to straight forward and its not as good as Metroid Prime 3 Corruption or Call of Duty World at War which sold over 1 million on wii alone.

Madworld is short, I mean really short, were talking 3-4 hours depending on your skill level and the game is good but by no means is it AAA or must have title. Its a good rental but how do you expect people to pony up $50 bucks in this economy for a game that last 3 hours with virtual no replay value and crappy multiplayer that no body cares about?

House of the Dead Overkill is in the same boat, short a$$ game with no online and was not that great of game. It will not blow you away like Mario Galaxy or Metroid Prime 3, or Zelda, or even No More Heroes. Its just ok, And its a lightgun shooter. Thats a overplayed genre on wii and I wish devs would just stop making them.

My point is none of the games listed above that people b1tch about that don't sell on wii dont sell cuz there not good. Throw in the fact Nintendo doesn't have a Trophy or achevement system to entice people to play more wii games, the online structure sucks and few games are online enabled, no demos to try out if the game is good, imo which would have helped sales of all the games above, and the lack of marketing 75% of wii games get no marketing at all! No wonder Nintendo, the company that puts the most into their games from a economic standpoint umm duhhh make the most money and sell the most. Truly quality games like Monster Hunter Tri will sell on wii if you make a really good game not a ok game in the 80's with 3 hours of gameplay and crappy mulitplayer like Madworld but good games that have lots of hours of gameplay and at least 88-up gamerankings

The only game On gameranking in the wii's top ten games that didn't sell was Okami and that game didn't even sell on the PS2 with its 120 million user base at the time. Not only that but the wii version outsold the PS2 version. Every other game on the wii's top ten ranking list sold well

I'm not trying to defend wii im just trying to expose the truth about a lot of wii core game not made by Nintendo just are not really good. Theres a few good ones like No More Heroes which is Suda 51's best selling title, Clash of Ninja Revolution series which sells well, Call of Duty World at War which has a 83 on gamerankings and sold well, Shaun White snowboarding, Resident Evil franchises, really though if developers made better game then the wii 3rd party core titles will sell better.

And after all reading all this or even if you didn't answer this one question?
-Has any third party publisher or developer put the time, effort, money, and advertising into a game like Nintendo does with Zelda TP, Metroid Prime 3, Mario Galaxy, Super Smash Bros, and Punch out?

- I can think of 3 games Tiger Woods 10, Monster Hunter Tri, and No More Heroes Desperate Struggle and potentially Red Steel 2. Thats it!

-Yes, im a pissed at Nintendo and mad at Developers that don't try and mad at Nintendo for not including features like a solid online system, achevements, and more core titles.

- But to say core titles don't sell cause there is not a user base is idiotic. i have a wii and PS3 and 360 why am I going to buy 3 hour Madworld and House of the Dead when I can get Star Ocean 4, Red Faction G, Infamous, Prototype, and many other games that offer more gameplay and better online.
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jsslifelike - 106 days 7 hours ago
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4.1 -
You make a lot of good points. I wholeheartedly agree with you on the lack of a reward system on the Wii. But, would you consider buying either of the major on-rails shooters this fall if they included online co-op? I'm just wondering what devs can do to try and pull segmented gamers like us back into the Wii fray on the current hardware...
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EvilTwin - 106 days 7 hours ago
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4.2 -
Well put. "Core" Nintendo titles sell for a reason. A LOT of effort gets put into those games. Galaxy and LoZ:TP took a long, long time to make.

We haven't really seen AAA-level stuff from third parties. I love No More Heroes, and the sequel is a first-day purchase for me, but it's a 15-hour game, tops. I put 70 hours into Twilight Princess, and the production values aren't even close (Grasshopper is cool, but they can't polish like Nintendo).

Titles on Nintendo's console also have longer legs. We usually don't see GTA-level sales off the bat for those games, but very few games do overall. Bioshock didn't sell like GTA4, but it's still a fantastic game. But games that are initially "flops" (NMH, Boom Blox) end up doing well on Wii.

Anywho...this article tried to make a point that went over many people's heads, it seems. Yes, a "core" title may sell more on the PS3 or 360. But you could sell 1 million copies and maybe you don't make the same profit Grasshopper did by selling 400,000 copies of No More Heroes. The development fees on the HD consoles are EXORBITANT. That's the point here. It's a lower risk on Wii. HotD: Overkill even turned a profit, according to Sega. We probably can't say the same thing for Hitman: Blood Money.

What is so wrong with having a lot of good titles that simply sell decently? IMO, that's what made the PS2 so great. In addition to huge sellers like GTA3, we got Ico.
And Psychonauts.
And Baldur's Gate.
And Shadow of the Colossus.
And Odin Sphere.
And Smuggler's Run.
And Fatal Frame III.
And Klonoa 2.
And Okami.

Heck, I don't think Bully even sold a million on PS2.

These games weren't huge blockbusters. They weren't "casual mini games." Most sold modestly, even though they were great games and the PS2 had the largest install base of any console ever.

(As Arius said, if we always reference the install base, probably 90% of PS2 games were flops...even if they ended up being profitable.)

There's something to be said for games that do well enough to turn a profit. They are the lifeblood of the industry, because it just isn't possible for every game to sell like Halo.
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TheoreticalParticle - 106 days 5 hours ago
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4.3 - I'm sorry, but I'm not going to blame third parties...
When as far as I can see, the blame lies squarely at Nintendo's feet. Remember when the Dreamcast eventually went down? Well, do you remember what the software looked like? There was a distinct drop-off in quality from Sega titles to everything else. Even substandard stuff like All-American 18-Wheeler had better graphical tricks than some of the AAA-3rd party titles. It was pretty obvious that Sega wasn't sharing all the little tricks and tweaks they knew about on their own system so that their titles would sell more.

Well, what do we see on the Wii? The exact same thing. Part of is obviously because most of the 3rd parties aren't focused on one console (and it'd obviously be stupid to do so, and focus on the one console where 3rd party success is the toughest battle) and therefore the Nintendo guys are going to have more experience. But at least part of it has to be assumed to be Nintendo not playing nice with third parties.
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jsslifelike - 106 days 5 hours ago
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4.4 - @Evil Twin
My God, man! You got it exactly! Are you really my Evil Twin? You read between the lines that I typed and I don't think that I could sum it up any better. Bluntly stating the focal point of an article does not do the piece due justice.
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EvilTwin - 106 days 5 hours ago
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4.5 -
TheoreticalParticle -- I think we're talking apples and oranges comparing the Dreamcast to the Wii. The DC didn't even sniff market leader status; a lot of development teams just never bothered to put their full ingenuity into the system because it never caught on (they waited for the PS2, and it turns out they were right to stay on the PlayStation gravy train).

And Soul Caliber would like to talk to you about third-party graphics on the DC, btw.

I can't blame Nintendo for third parties not putting their all into the system. Everyone seems to agree that the Wii is a Gamecube 1.5. If you can't develop well for a souped up version of 8-year old technology, that's your own fault.

And for the sales figures...I don't see how inaccurate they are for the games he brought up. Sega said HotD:Overkill turned a profit, and that they sold 150,000 copies of Conduit.

jsslifelike -- Separated at birth? Or do evil minds just think alike?
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jsslifelike - 106 days 5 hours ago
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4.6 - @EvilTwin
Take your pick... ;)

We talked about this topic from SEGA's perspective in the "Boss Battle" of our show this week. The big point I was making was, now that Nintendo has captured the whimsical trendy gamer, is it time for them to build on that by targeting the hardcore base that they've lost? There's a TON of money to be made on the Wii(I'm looking at you, Carnival Games- yuck!) I just wish Nintendo would market and devs would have some integrity.
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Arius Dion - 106 days 4 hours ago
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4.7 - Who says
The audience Wii captured is whimsical?

But here's the funny thing, the money isn't in the "hardcore" demographic, why should Nintendo cater to an audience that left during the N64 and Cube days? Seems to me they've been better off with out that crowd lol.

But seriously, the sooner devs get rid of silly demographics talk the better off they will be. Wii is a video game system, Nintendo's job with the Wii is to get it into as many homes as possible, 3rd parties then use the console as a platform to release games they think will sell. Here's a tip, try to satisfy a genre Nintendo isn't going after.

Nearly 3 yrs into Wii's life and third parties are still talking like "we haven't figured the Wii out" If I were a third party I'd start sweating a bit because M$ and Sony are looking at Motion Controls now, so what options are they left with? Develop exclusively for the PC? We all know how PC gaming turned out (not bashing PC gaming lol)

Really, all that needs to be said is look at MH3 On its way to a million sold in Japan alone, For perspective, no exclusive game on an HD console in Japan has cleared a million. But even this is a flop, relative to installed base lol.

The bottom line is this, Wii sells the most software, what does that tell you? All you really need to know. RE4 sold more on Wii then it did on Cube, that's a two yr old port of a last gen game, but it sold and continues to sell way beyond Capcom's expectations. Oh yeah and that's a "mature" title.

I hate to break it to people, but if Wii received the big franchise titles and AAA efforts the games would sell extremely well. Niche new IP's or on-rails games wouldn't sell any better on any other platform. There is nothing to figure out, there is nothing rocket science here.

If you build it they will come.
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TheoreticalParticle - 106 days 5 hours ago
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5 - Oh, sorry original article...
You're based on VGChartz numbers, that makes you absolutely worthless.
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Dringostarr - 106 days 4 hours ago
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6 -
Nintendo need the core gamer. It was its core fanbase that carried it through the tough N64 and even tougher GameCube days. If casual gamers were to find their fix elsewhere... then what will Nintendo have to fall back on if they frighten off all their fanbase?

There are plenty of core games on Wii, some really quality gems too. But core gamers will get a lot more out of a 360 or PS3. A Zelda game every three years, with a Mario or Metroid game inbetween just isn't enough for most gamers.

The problem is third parties haven't been making the most out of the system. Even those that have tried, such as Sega and EA, haven't exactly done a great job.

It is up to Nintendo to lead the way. And maybe next year, with Sin and Punishment, Metroid, Mario Galaxy, Zelda etc... they will show that the Wii is more than just a casual toy.

Because right now, it's not so clear.
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ZoidsRaven - 106 days 2 hours ago
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7 - Wow, that old statement?
People are still calling the Wii "last-gen"?

I guess that's all Wii bashers can do now, just hold on to their wrong statements about the Wii in hopes that no one proves them wrong.
(But would it really matter if they got proven wrong? ............ No.)
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Brasi82 - 105 days 22 hours ago
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7.1 - Last-Gen
The Wii's graphics may be last generations as they are comparable to late model X-Box games, however the game play of the HD consoles dates back to the introduction of the Dual Analog controller and are comparable to the original Playstation.

I agree with you ZoidsRaven and Fierce Musashi
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lizard81288 - 106 days 2 hours ago
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8 - lol
remember how the atari failed/died? because of "3rd" parties, they made crap. the Devs should make better games or but effort into them for the wii.there either very short, like MadWorld, or lack good gameplay, like NMH. for NMH it was good with the assassination missions, but other than that?...why would i want to pick up coconuts, or trash? atleast in The Conduit, its a new genre on the wii, i don't know of any FPS on the wii, however, people that do play them, thought The Conduit was average.

although i have noticed lately,with wii exclusives,ps360 fanboys are complaining about them, not being on their system, so they must be doing something right, right?
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Fierce Musashi - 106 days ago
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9 - Wii "Last-Gen"?
How many times have we heard that? Any smart person knows the Wii is next-gen, simply because of the things it can do that last-gen couldn't.
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