Why id Software's Rage Will Shine on the PS3

Nike - 206 days 13 hours ago

The PS3's OpenGL library takes full advantage of the new id Tech 5 engine which also features the new OpenGL standard. Clairvoyance or whatever, but Sony has given id Software the perfect OpenGL hardware on a silver platter.

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Raoh - 206 days 13 hours ago

GWAVE makes an excellent point about developers and the Unreal Engine 3 is a great example.

Many have had a hard time with Unreal Engine 3 for the ps3. Yet Epic had no problems with Unreal Tournament 3 and is probably one of the smoothest running games. Microsoft has been Unreal Engine 3 Haven, yet tri ace managed to make Last Remnant run like a power point document slide show on the 360.

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Nike - 206 days 13 hours ago

Reminds me of RenderWare - Criterion Games' middleware game engine that Black and Burnout ran off of on the Playstation 2. However, when other developers got a hold of it, the games looked awful (Sonic Heroes, any one?).

Some developers have a better handle on engines than others but more often then not, it's the original creator who knows how to best utilize it.

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iHEARTboobs - 206 days 13 hours ago

if the game sucks. As of right now i'm just hoping it's a really good game. This game looks really interesting and i'm hoping it delivers the goodness.

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I did not murder him - 206 days 12 hours ago

Looking forward to seeing how this turns out we've heard your type of crazy talk before relating to lots of other games.

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Sarcasm - 206 days 11 hours ago

"yet tri ace managed to make Last Remnant run like a power point document slide show on the 360. "

LMAO

one of the funniest comments yet.

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ThatCanadianguy420 - 206 days 11 hours ago

"JOY" Whats with the little sign off tag?

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CaseyRyback_CPO - 206 days 10 hours ago

This game will look like a bland generic multiplat title, as they all do graphically. Sure, some have their pros and cons, and some look decent. But none look Uncharted.

Its a shame that The ps3's hardware had to compete with the 360's hardware this gen because we seriously have missed out on what multiplat games could be.look at MLB, look at Infamous, look at Gran Turismo, look at kz2.

Your games are supposed to look like this. Not the unreal engine & a dvd.

I* just hope there is enough time in the Ps3's lifecycle to bring us more amazing technically advanced games, because the 360's "exclusives" and multiplats have all hit their wall, thanks to the 360. Thats why exclusives are so appealing to the PS3 audience. why bother with gimped games when you see your console can pull off mgs4,lbp,motorstorm2,and warhawk?

No multiplat will ever shine significantly over another. We can thank the 360's terribly low specifications for this. I dont take 'buh buh it could ru..' because it hasn't shown it can. And it cant as far as the past 3+ years is more than likely going to show.

although, like the ps2.. we are early in the ps3's life cycle. And the games already are far beyond what the competition is even capable of.

looking "better" isn't having sharper low resolution textures. looking better is the ps3 version looking like Killzone2, and the 360 version looking like Gears. And that is never going to happen folks.

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All-3 - 206 days 9 hours ago

MTV Multiplayer: How is multi-platform development going for “Rage”? Have you reconciled the differences between the Xbox 360 and PS3?

Carmack: Yeah, we’ve got a really good technical solution for that. Our current technology base is all built from the ground up to support this. And there is a little bit of least common denominator-ing, where usually the PS3 becomes the sticky point in terms of [being] a little bit slower on the graphics, you’ve got a little bit of less memory to deal with but a little bit more processing power. So you kind of have to balance the things between all of that. But our important fundamental decisions do have to be made around what’s going to work on the console, even though people with the very highest end PCs might have a system with a couple times the processing power of what a console has. We can’t do anything specifically focused towards that that would be in any way detrimental to the rest of the market.

--> Carmack: And there is a little bit of least common denominator-ing, where usually the PS3 becomes the sticky point in terms of [being] a little bit slower on the graphics, you’ve got a little bit of less memory to deal with but a little bit more processing power. So you kind of have to balance the things between all of that.

---

MTV Multiplayer: Have you resolved the disc space issue with the Xbox 360 version?

Carmack: It is multiple discs. We think that it’s going to cram onto two discs right now. We’ve been spending a lot of effort on an extra compression method for it, and profiling where we can cut on that. We haven’t made a final call yet about whether we would actually compress things differently for the PS3, which could have a little bit higher quality. But there’s a lot of picky issues on that where the smaller we make it on disc, the faster it loads and other benefits like that. So if we get it to look decent on the 360 on two discs, we’ll probably leave it with that data set on the PS3, but we won’t make that decision final for another six months or so.

http://multiplayerblog.mtv....

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Though remarkable for its graphics, Rage is also noteworthy because it will be the first game that id will develop internally for the Xbox 360, PlayStation 3, Mac, and PC. Indeed, Hollenshead told GameSpot that id's technology chief, John Carmack, considers the 360 the game's "primary platform." Such sentiments are surprising, coming from one of the minds that put PC gaming on the map in the 1990s with the original Doom and Quake series.

--> QUOTE: Hollenshead told GameSpot that id's technology chief, John Carmak, considered the 360 the game's (RAGE) --> primary platform.

http://www.gamespot.com/new...

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kaveti6616 - 206 days 3 hours ago

I don't know who to be angrier at when considering the fact that after more than 5 years of specification development, the 360 has not acquired a proprietary game engine that fully optimizes its abilities. Should I be mad at the developers or Microsoft? I give PS3 the benefit of the doubt and say it has better hardware than the 360, but to say that it blows 360 out of the water, I can't say that for sure since we as gamers have not seen any devs step up and create an engine from the ground up just for the 360. The best engine that's been used on the 360 has been the multiplatform Unreal Engine 3, and we all know that despite its qualities, it has some gaping flaws and is basically being built on top of the code of its predecessors so its very inefficient on 360. MS only had a handful of First Party Devs, so it wasn't like it could pull one of them aside and offer them a couple of years time to develop an inhouse engine. It needed all of those devs to churn out games as fast as possible. Sony, on the other hand, has more than 20 first party devs, which I believe is why it was able to take Guerrilla Games aside and give them more than 4 years of development time to work closely with the PS3 cells and come up with the Deferred Shader engine, plus an awesome looking FPS. Microsoft just doesnt have enough resources, but it does have enough money, so it buys off exclusive content for it multiplatform titles. I hope the reason why MS hasn't announced any real exclusives for 2009 will be because they have given their developers time to create better engines for the hardware. I only own a 360, fan of the PS3 as well, so I'm hoping I hear some good news soon.

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All-3 - 205 days 23 hours ago

id Software's Todd Hollenshead said --> "Rage looks the same on all four platforms. It's all the same media, it's the same art, literally" he said. "It's damn hard to do that, but if you're a genius you'll figure out how to do it and that's what (Carmack) has done."

--

--> This game will look like a bland generic multiplat title, as they all do graphically. Sure, some have their pros and cons, and some look decent. But none look Uncharted.

LOLOL -- yeah riiiight. DO NOT watch this footage then...

http://www.gametrailers.com...

And just ignore the graphics in RE5... gsus!

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teraclusterx - 205 days 16 hours ago

All the tools and engines that run and work great on 360 are PC based and PC tech is constantly growing!
So with that the technology in 1 year is already maxed out and dated,with no room for growth since consoles by nature aren't upgradable.the PC 360 is just that a PC with an old Video card.
Sadly the main benefits of PCs Video Cards are its Huge V-Ram and constant increase in speed.
Im pretty sure Epic or Valve if had a choice would rather be doing something profitable,on a PC with the latest Nvidia Gx200's with 1.7GB of V-Ram at 230GB'per sec!!
Damn I would love to see something like Unreal Engine or Valve do something for this beast.
Who wouldn't !no game engine would touch this tech for years but sadly the money isn't there and so isn't the installed user base.So its 360 for now and when for PC developers.?

But yes ultimately 360 is a PC like machine and its Xenos is old in the PC GPU world.

But ultimately you can cope with some technology limits by leveragin newer technologies like Cell and BLuray to leverage some amazing things that Brute Ram and Sheer GPU power can't, and affordable reasonable cost and actually make a profit.I think PS3 is great for this..
Its a coders machine .

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Nike - 206 days 13 hours ago

It'll look better on the PS3, something even John Carmack attested to at one point. Sound good enough for ya? :)

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Hellsvacancy - 206 days 13 hours ago

I kinda assumed itll run better on the Ps3 but no dev wil say that

I thought i read on N4g the other day that the 360 was the lead platform http://uk.gamespot.com/news...

Bubble 2ya :-)

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Kleptic - 206 days 12 hours ago

great interview...I missed that...bubble...

regardless of the PS3 vs. 360 in terms of Rage...its pretty much moot until the game releases...one thing is certain though, if there is one 3rd party US based dev that can make the PS3 squirm with groundbreaking tech...its iD...and more specifically...John Carmack...he confirmed before, which is what this article touches on, that BD is the biggest advantage for "his" game...and bigger titles like it...that the PS3 has...he mentioned the OS footprint, as of 2007, being its biggest drawback as well...so it wasn't one sided...he confirmed to the retards that the PS3 does in fact have more memory bandwidth, and more of an architecture that a PC with a dedicated GPU and seperate ram has (as apposed to the 360's fully shared budget laptop like memory allocation)...but that its pretty pointless when the OS takes twice as much ram to run than that of the 360...of which may or may not have been reduced since then...

either way...I love it when pedigree developers fire back to the 'wii question'...as in...yeah the facking thing is selling well...but unless its some 20 year old nintendo franchise...the games don't...period...so stop bringing it up...no 3rd party is going to make any significant Wii game that anyone truely cares about...

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All-3 - 205 days 23 hours ago

--> regardless of the PS3 vs. 360 in terms of Rage...its pretty much moot until the game releases...one thing is certain though, if there is one 3rd party US based dev that can make the PS3 squirm with groundbreaking tech...its iD...

--> ...he confirmed to the retards that the PS3 does in fact have more memory bandwidth, and more of an architecture that a PC with a dedicated GPU and seperate ram has (as apposed to the 360's fully shared budget laptop like memory allocation)...

Actually --> this is what Carmack said: And there is a little bit of least common denominator-ing, where usually the PS3 becomes the sticky point in terms of [being] a little bit slower on the graphics, you’ve got a little bit of less memory to deal with but a little bit more processing power. So you kind of have to balance the things between all of that.

Carmack stated - where usually...

#1) ... the PS3 is a LITTLE BIT slower on the graphics.

#2) ... the PS3 has a LITTLE BIT OF LESS MEMORY.

#3) ... the PS3 has a LITTLE BIT MORE processing power.

As for the blu-ray advantage...

Carmack: We haven’t made a final call yet about whether we would actually compress things differently for the PS3, which could have a little bit higher quality. But there’s a lot of picky issues on that where the smaller we make it on disc, the faster it loads and other benefits like that. So if we get it to look decent on the 360 on two discs, we’ll probably leave it with that data set on the PS3, but we won’t make that decision final for another six months or so.

NOTE that COMPRESSION is still being done for the PS3 version - regardless if it'll be the same or not as the Xbox 360 versions compression method.

Now ask yourselves WHY does a 25/50GB blu-ray disc game require ANY form of compression at all if the disc capacity feature in blu-ray is such a HUGE advantage vs the other disc formats being used for the Xbox 360/PC and Mac versions?

BTW - As for multiple discs... even the PC version will have multiple discs. The PC platforms power WON'T be taken full advantage of because it would be DETRIMENTAL to the console market.

Carmack: But our important fundamental decisions do have to be made around what’s going to work on the console, even though people with the very highest end PCs might have a system with a couple times the processing power of what a console has. We can’t do anything specifically focused towards that that would be in any way detrimental to the rest of the market.

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Nike - 206 days 13 hours ago

The Xbox 360 and PC will need multiple DVDs to carry Rage. I'm thinking maybe about...20. xD

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M337ING - 206 days 13 hours ago

Considering the entire game will be installed to hard drive on PC, disk type is a non-issue for the PC version, there are also no royalty costs to worry about like with the 360.

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free2game365 - 206 days 12 hours ago

and you'll be able to run it much better on a PC on top of it.

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Kleptic - 206 days 11 hours ago

PC has ALWAYS been the most immune to disc size...1 reason that even Doom 3 released on CDRom, even though the game was nearly 5gigs of install space...that released in 2004 by the way...

PC by far has it the best...as there are no requirements for amounts of discs...only that the entire game is pumped onto a platter that reads insanely fast compared to any optical format...

the 360 on the other hand has it the worst...no standard HDD to cache data onto (the option may end up being there however)...and literally a SD format to work with...DVD is NOT intended for HD information...period...it never was...MS has done a good job of getting a lot of 720p titles out of DVD...but its by far the biggest thing holding the 360 back overall...

the PS3 falls right in the middle...a standard HDD on every system that developers are free to utilize...or even better...store the data on the actual disc in uncompressed format...games such as Killzone 2 have done this...where the textures and sound are already uncompressed on the disc...no memory or processing power is wasted 'unpacking' this information into HD resolution...and that memory and processing can be used for other effects such as AI, physics, lighting, etc....just one of several reasons that killzone 2 wipes the floor with ANY 360 console titles...

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All-3 - 205 days 23 hours ago

Carmack: We haven’t made a final call yet about whether we would actually compress things differently for the PS3, which could have a little bit higher quality. <-- NOTE!

Carmack: But there’s a lot of picky issues on that where the smaller we make it on disc, the faster it loads and other benefits like that. So if we get it to look decent on the 360 on two discs, we’ll probably leave it with that data set on the PS3, but we won’t make that decision final for another six months or so.

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Nike - 206 days 13 hours ago

I'm interested in the whole reset thing the game's got going on. Hopefully, we'll get more out of the horror than the atypical Doom 3's monster closets. :P

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M337ING - 206 days 13 hours ago

Play it on a Mac with good hardware, and that's probably true.

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gameplayer - 205 days 21 hours ago

macs are using the same hardware as windows machines these days and everyone knows that a high end pc has several times more cpu/gpu grunt and memory than the 360 and ps3 combined.

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M337ING - 206 days 12 hours ago

I don't understand how people still have the balls to disagree this late into the gen.

Even multi-plat games that had no-frills PC ports look significantly better than their console counterparts at this stage.

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M337ING - 206 days 12 hours ago

If the engine is bad, the game will run like crap.

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kingme71 - 206 days 12 hours ago

The engine is what runs the game. If the engine is inefficient for a given platform, then the game will stutter and could drop below an acceptable framerate among other things. The article is saying that Id prefers OpenGL over DirectX. Neither OpenGL nor Direct X are engines, but are apis that engine builders use to create their engines and to do things like render scenes, compute shadows, etc. This is the api you use to talk to the hardware.

DirectX is Microsoft's invention and an engine like Unreal would use DirectX. OpenGL is a competing api with DirectX and is what runs best on the Playstation. Actually, the article states OpenGL | ES which is just a version of OpenGL that is geared toward embedded systems. Id prefers OpenGL over Direct X and since they are creating an engine using OpenGL, it will have a natural tendency to perform better on the Playstation.

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Jaces - 206 days 3 hours ago

Why?

Because nothing on the 360 (exclusive mind you) has looked as good as any of the PS3's exclusives.

Fact.

"Buh, buhh, but teh multiplats look the same" Wow, seriously? That's a lame excuse and example if I've ever heard one.

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TheIneffableBob - 206 days 11 hours ago

Raven Software did Quake 4.

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MUNKYPOO - 206 days 9 hours ago

whats the difference?

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Nike - 206 days 13 hours ago

Good to see we agree on some thing for once. :)

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Shadow Man - 206 days 13 hours ago

I be getting the 360 version..cause I don't have a ps3.

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Eiffel - 206 days 13 hours ago

A iffy IP that has a FPS/Racing genre is something to brag about because it will be better on one system? Okayy. Regardless this game won't sell well. And if I do recall ID Software is a PC company. Like Valve their main focus is not system ports.

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LeonSKennedy4Life - 206 days 13 hours ago

I'm not sure this guy understands who these guys are.

This is Id...

...not some random developer that isn't going to try to push a system as far as it can go.

These guys are pros.

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Steven Colbert - 206 days 13 hours ago

@Eiffel

"GS: So do you guys still consider yourself first and foremost a PC developer?

TH: Well, actually it's been a fundamental, sort of philosophical shift at the company, is that we really have transitioned from, first and foremost, a PC developer to a multiplatform developer. And so when John [Carmack] developed id Tech 5 (see below), it really was targeted from the initiation as a multiplatform technology solution.

Now, there's no question that our roots are in PC gaming. And when I play a first-person shooter, keyboard and mouse is the configuration that I want to play on.

So as an independent developer, we feel like we have to be on all the relevant platforms. So we don't really view ourselves as PC first. I think I would say that John says that probably the primary development platform for Rage is actually the 360."

http://uk.gamespot.com/news...

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Eiffel - 206 days 13 hours ago

@Steven Colbert

Regardless, They are PC based. They have been for a very long time. Despite their views. Granted they can change and be whatever they want to be. But their key sales are pin pointed for the PC.

@LeonSKennedy4Life

I know who ID is very well. I've purchased all the classic Doom titles as well as a few quake titles. Questioning if I know anything about ID would be like me asking you how to troll. I've even played on a online doom port known as Zdaemon, go on google it.

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Steven Colbert - 206 days 13 hours ago

@Eiffel

From the horses mouth,they specifically said RAGE is focused on consoles.Doom 4 is clearly a PC titan but RAGE is not because RAGE is a vehicle/FPS based game on post-apocolyptia.It might not be a success but Id created the game for multiplatform development because they want the success of other FPS games like Halo,bioshock,and Fallout 3.

I will get this game for PC and possibly Mac as well but its a game focused on multiplatform development and success.

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M337ING - 206 days 12 hours ago

As all games are nowadays...

It's not like id's design philosophy has ever excluded consoles. Pretty much all of their previous games have been console friendly in terms of simple gameplay mechanics. They've even reiterated that they would prefer playing these types of games with a mosue and keyboard, which shows where their heart really is.

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LeonSKennedy4Life - 206 days 11 hours ago

"regardless this game won't sell well"

Who cares if it sells well?

We aren't buying the game because millions of other are. We are buying it so we can enjoy it!

The troll thing was pretty good though...

...how long did that one take you?

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M337ING - 206 days 12 hours ago

Structurally, the game is being built for 360 hardware. That doesn't mean that the PC/PS3 versions can't have advantages like less compressed textures and enhanced visual effects.

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GiantEnemyCrab - 206 days 12 hours ago

shhhh. Just wait till the game releases and then save this link.

This articles major point is the API for OpenGL uses Immediate while DirectX uses Retained mode. Then in the closing it says:

"Though Retained Mode was eventually discontinued, some programmers attest to the lack of documentation in Immediate Mode rendering for Direct X."

So it's going to be better on the PS3 because they lack a manual for Immediate rendering in DirectX. LOL

Carmack has already came out and said nothing is being cut or downgraded for the Xbox 360 version. See OXM Rage article for the quote.

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