John Carmack talks Doom 4, DX10, Rage, Quake Zero & More

QuakeCon's big event is Friday night – John Carmack's keynote speech. GameInformer had the opportunity to catch up with things since the CES interview and get the important details about id Tech 5. Will it work with DX10? Wii? What is Rage? What's going on with Doom 4? What the heck is Quake Zero? Carmack spills the beans on the next Quake Arena project and a whole lot more in this extensive QuakeCon interview!

[HeavyweightInTheGame]

It looks like Doom 4 has just been officially confirmed. Too bad it'll probably have a release date of something like 2010.

[tehcellownu]

john carmack jus dont want to go bck on his words since it will make him like stupid..

[Retro-Virus]

Great read. Interesting tit-bits about how much difficulty they're having with the memory limitations on the PS-3 and when John Carmack says so, we must concur.

[ShiftyLookingCow]

great read indeed. And yeah John Carmack says so, we must concur. Hes the man

[AIZEN SOZUKE]

too bad that memory problem isnt as much a problem as this idiot thinks, the ps3 isnt dependent on memory, its all about teraflops and floating point, that is why ps3 is supercomputer, and thats why its able to make realtime movies, and that theory of memory will continue to be shattered even past killzone, rsx memory doesnt equal rsxs performance, the thing was made to synthesize hollywood movie graphics, that still wont be realised for a while, this rsx even is nowhere near maxed out, this carmack wants to get pc and 180 fans excited, for nothing, but good try

[xfrgtr]

He is saying almost the exact opposite of so many other developers on the PS3

[JCDenton]

Are you a good programmer? Are you a programmer at all, so you can say (stupid) things like this? You call him an idiot, and he is one of the legends in computer programming, one of the best out there since the original Doom in 1993.

"the ps3 isnt dependent on memory, its all about teraflops and floating point..." - You obviously don't have clue what you're talking about, and you call him an idiot... Really sad.

[bootsielon]

...I'll believe"

That's ridiculous. John Carmack is not infallible, that's why Unreal Engine and Crysis are dominating.

I find it funny that some Xbox fanboys are already ejaculating with thoughts of PS3 having memory limitations. You know, every console has its pros and its cons, that's something you need to fit through your thick skulls, fanboys.

Stop being so domesticable and learn to make your own opinions. One question though, are you just gonna pick tidbits of information selectively and convenietly, or are you gonna take this one bit as blindly as you took the other one?

"....we’d rather develop on the Xbox 360. The PS3 still does have in theory more power that could be extracted..." John Carmack

[Retro-Virus]

Yes, we'd believe a genius like John rather than take the word of someone on a forum.

[MK_Red]

I hope for Doom 4 they leave Doom 3 and go back to the roots and make it a next-gen game with story and elements like Doom 2 (My fave FPS ever!).

[RoseSapphire]

I respect Carmack as a developer and I am not going to jump in here saying I know more than him about how a system uses its memory and such, cause I don't, but I can't believe anything he is saying about the supposed "limitations" that he is finding on the PS3. Yes, we know it is a difficult system to develop for. Unlike the 360 which has a very PC friendly style of development, the PS3 is definitely something new and challenging.

He is saying almost the exact opposite of so many other developers though, which is what makes me questions how he is approaching the system. It is possible that being a PC developer he isn't seeing the system in the same light as everyone else, but that is just speculation on my part.

[egyptian_diarrhea]

carmack does seem a little bias toward xbox360, maybe uncle bill had $ome infl$u$en$c$e(money) in there... but i want you to know carmack i love you no matter what ****

[Legionaire2005]

Nuff said!!!!

[HeavyweightInTheGame]

Doom 4 and Quake Arena on 360 XD

[HeavyweightInTheGame]

Why do Sony fans disagree that I would like to play it on the system that I play? I made no comment about me not wanting doom or quake on ps3. People can be so ignorant and stupid these days. You disagree that read: I, want to play these games on MY 360? Don't disagree about peoples own PERSONAL opinions. No flame was intended on what I said.

Edit: I was considering getting a ps3 but do I really want to become one of these Sony fanboys who doesn't take time to read?

[JasonPC360PS3Wii]

The natural reaction for a Sony fan is to disagree and remove bubbles before reading.

[Vojkan]

Game Informer: When we interviewed you at CES this year, and QuakeCon two years ago you weren't too thrilled with developing for multicore systems. Obviously now, that's the case across all platforms. Were you kind of at the point with id Tech 5 where, you said, "We give in?"

John Carmack: You have to take advantage of what's on the table. Although it's interesting that almost all of the PS3 launch titles hardly used any Cells at all. We hired one of the best PS3 guys around who did the Edge Acceleration technology for Sony - he's on our team now so we've got some of the best PS3 experience here. In fact when we were doing all of the tech demos, we'd bring in the developers and they'd walk over and say, "it's running on the PS3!" (laughs) They'd sit there and stare at it for a while.

There's no doubt that with all of the platforms that we have running here PS3 is the most challenging to develop on. That's what I've been saying from the beginning. It's not that it was a boneheaded decision because they're a lot closer the fact that they can run like this [points to the 4 different gaming stations running Rage] - they're a lot closer than they've ever been before. It's a hell of a lot better than PS2 versus Xbox. But given the choice, we'd rather develop on the Xbox 360. The PS3 still does have in theory more power that could be extracted but it's not smart. We don't feel it's smart to head down that rat hole. In fact, the biggest thing we worry about right now is memory. Microsoft extracts 32 megs for their system stuff and Sony takes 96. That's a big deal because the PS3 is already partitioned memory where the 360 is 512 megs of unified and on the PS3 is 256 of video, 256 of memory minus 96 for their system...stuff. Stuff is not the first thing that came to my mind there. (laughs)

The PS3 is not the favorite platform but it's going to run the game just as good. To some degree there's going to be some lowest common denominator effect because we're going to be testing these every day on all of the platforms, and it's going to be "Dammit it's out of memory on the PS3 again, go crunch some things down" That's probably going to be the sore spot for all of this but because we're continuous builds on all of these we're going to be fighting these battles as we go rather than build these things out and go, "Oh my God we're so far away from running on there." Which is the situation where Enemy Territory is suffering with at a degree right now, and a lot of other people have that.
-------------

[JCDenton]

Didn't you just read what huntersville said? Why quote an idiot like Carmack who don't know what his talking about...

Beep! /SARCASM OFF/ ;)

EDIT:

I really was sarcastic. I think Carmack is a great programmer and game developer, and I respect everything he says since he's certainly better programmer then me, or probably 99% of the people here.

[Vojkan]

Because i like to hear what everyone thinks. Whether i like it or not thats totally different thing.
Carmack might not be best developer and he might be more of a PC developer(360 arhitecture is just like in a PC) but still i like to read this stuff and that is true that Sony uses to much of its memory.

[beavis4play]

for every developer who says they struggle with ps3 there is one who says they dont. this isn't an issue to me. as long as we get great games, who cares.

[JasonPC360PS3Wii]

"But given the choice, we’d rather develop on the Xbox 360." and the next line "The PS3 still does have in theory more power that could be extracted but it’s not smart. We don’t feel it’s smart to head down that rat hole. In fact, the biggest thing we worry about right now is memory." Hey Kure4thepain (whatever your name is) here is your Memory is a myth crap regarding the PS3, I would love to see how you back out or spin this, if you even have the balls to answer.

"To some degree there’s going to be some lowest common denominator effect because we’re going to be testing these every day on all of the platforms, and it’s going to be “Dammit it’s out of memory on the PS3 again, go crunch some things down” Ouch "out of memory" Come Kure4 whatever take my challenge.

[Charlie2688]

Its interesting to see that he is taking a VERY different approach to the PS3 programming, and as many of you have pointed out he is indeed saying completely the opposite of many other devs about developing for the PS3

I guess that is why they hired an expert on the PS3

[THAMMER1]

Microsoft extracts 32 megs for their system stuff and Sony takes 96. That’s a big deal because the PS3 is already partitioned memory where the 360 is 512 megs of unified and on the PS3 is 256 of video, 256 of memory minus 96 for their system…stuff. Stuff is not the first thing that came to my mind there. (laughs)

I think this is a reality check for some of you.

[candystop]

This is bad news for PS3 and will limit it's ability to show off it's horse power! Still I have yet to see any game on PS3 that visually impress's me the way Gears did and this is probably why!

[AIZEN SOZUKE]

candystop is impressed by paper mario, and obviously hasnt seen killzone and others on ps3, and yes, carmack does know more about ps3 than ps3 makers, and especially sony

[PatBlack]

Carmack is always negative about everything.
He likes something one day, dislike it the next day.
This is a smart man but he is to much in his own word, his own perfect word.

[texism]

AAhhh! Doom4! I'll probably have to upgrade to dual cores and get a fancy card than my radeon Xpress 200

[Alcohog]

Remember "Final Doom"? ....HA!

[FirstknighT]

YES!!!! Give me Doom 4. Doom 3 on the original Xbox was AMAZING!!! Second best shooter I ever played next to Halo.

[ApocalypseShadow]

memory usage and that carmack is all that.

he's a smart man when it comes to pc type programming and 360(which is like pc).

but doesn't it SURPRISE you fanboys that carmack had to get an edge programmer to help them get rage running on ps3.seems this person is SMARTER if they couldn't figure it out on their own?

if you approach ps3 as if it's like a pc or 360,you're going to have problems.if you change your way of thinking,you will get farther.

but remember these words:

*****John Carmack: You have to take advantage of what's on the table. Although it's interesting that almost all of the PS3 launch titles hardly used any Cells at all.*******

EXTRA POWER BABY.EXTRA POWER.

[ShiftyLookingCow]

so this article got the comments because of the console tension. Anyways to put things in perspective: Carmack said PS3 is a better to develop for than PS2. Its just his opinion that he doesn't like SPUs too much("PS3 has more power but not as smart") and Sony taking 96MB for system and have separate memory for CPU and GPU. As time passes, the PS3 will have an edge thanks to Blu ray but its not all black and white out there as to who is the best, Sony made great reliable hardware while Microsoft is great at software for developers. Except for the fact that PC IS SUPREME AND IT COSTS YOU YOUR KIDNEY AND YOUR EYE, MUHAHAHAHA

[AIZEN SOZUKE]

pc is supreme, in its own world that is, but in this gens gaming world the supercomputer ps3 reigns, that is the only true fact

[supaet]

every system have limitation...deal with it...

btw, 64 mb memory is a lot.........

video ram = amount of stuff you can see on screen, imagine you lose more than 10% of your tv...

also, according to the article, they ps3 specifies its memory, only 256 mb can be use it for video, while the other 256 mb is system ram...this can be troublesome...you can't show more than 256 mb of graphic textures on the screen for the ps3.

but for the 360, the 512 mb is unified and can be used for both video and system at differen't % as long as they add up to be 512.

this gives the reason that portting from 360 to ps3 is hard while porting from ps3 to 360 is easy...

if at some point of the game, the video ram goes up to 400 mb, it can't be done on the ps3....

[AIZEN SOZUKE]

the ps3 was built without rsx at first, or did you not know that, that is because the cell is a supercomputer on a chip, built by sony, toshiba, and ibm, and had a gigantic budget, sony wanted to bring the same graphics in their movies to their gaming machine, that is why they put the same chips used to make their movies in the ps3, that is why movie ingame graphics are easily possible, even in the first 7 months of ps3s lifecycle, and with small budgets, you seem to forget e3 2005, and pc fans keep flooding your mind with the "sony lied" line over and over again, thats why you think the ps3 cant do but so much, when really it has no end, and friend rsx is a more powerfull, much more powerfull gpu than pc, and xbox fans say it to be, the gpu was a planned project to be able to make the most powerful gpu in the world, but some believe it to be surpassed already, just because the memory of newer gpus have come out, unfortunately the people that believe that leave one thing blank in that assumption, and that is the fact of rsx's ability to synthesize hollywood level movie graphics in real time, you didnt hear in e3 05, rsx wont be even near tapped into till some many years down the road, about all games currently shown on ps3 are rendered alone with rsx, as a matter o fact, all of them have been rendered by rsx, even killzone, cell and rsx when used, i assure you movie graphics will come to your gaming machine in a force greater than on the movie screen, think crysis is so great looking? it is, but i cant find it in me with all honesty, and my hand to the bible that crysis looks better than killzone and a handfull of other ps3 games, but even if crysis did look better than killzone, the budget on crysis is way bigger, and has a more developed engine, killzones engine is brand new, both of them and yet look like ingame realtime cg, the animations are off the scale, and the amount of things going on on screen is incomprehensible, and the game runs smoothly, and is not close to being done with development, yet crysis has been pushed back time after time, and recently pushed back because of the infamous killzone demonstration, so this is why many of your "RAM" debates and assumptions are highly off, sony didnt release such a horrible mistake, they are japanese, and they are movie makers, the ps3 was the plan to remove the barrier of cg from realtime, and they did it, think these developers know more about the ps3 than sony if you will, but sony will keep making these jackazzes look even more dumb than in e3 this year, and remember its only 7 or 8 months, not a year, more is to come in this endless machine:

http://media.ps3.ign.com/ar...

take a look at this, pcs fans dont seem to remember it, and they all of a sudden believe their beloved pcs are superior to supercomputer, ha what a joke, sony keeps proving that graphics and the power of their machine is not a lie, but many fall deeper into fairy land and follow along with you pc fans, but when pc games look near this, or anything currently on ps3, then they are superior, and then "RAM" is a factor, check this, then youll see all that i say is fact, not fiction, go take a look

[supaet]

I'm only connecting the dots with what carmack said...

look, he said that the ps3 will RUN OUT OF MEMORY when the 360 can still handle it...

how do you explain that? split memory ftl...the video ram of the ps3 is limited to 256 mb....not that it's bad, graphic cards are fine these days with 256 mb, but it's just not as flexible as the 360's 512 mb use it anyway you want...

[JCDenton]

RSX is essentially overclocked GeForce 7800GTX. In terms of processing power, it's behind 7900GTX, and faaaar behind, for example, 8800GTX (not to mention various SLI combinations).

[Eternal E 808]

sony fans are so in denial i mean come on there so quick to blame it on other things like the dev in this case and not there beloved ps3 come on its been said over and over,dont block it out please.