Christian Gamers, Offensive Lists, and 'Homo-Erotic' Games:- Another viewpoint

OXCGN Writes:

"Yes, we do exist.

Christian gamers that is. I don't think most of us make a big deal of it and I think some people would be surprised to find that Christians are as diverse a group as any other group (like, say, gamers)."

[Immortal Kaim]

Unfortunately the 'extremists' in any political/religious group, mare the overall perception of the group in question. The general public seem to paint an entire demographic with the same brush, based on a select few peoples opinions.

[gaminoz]

I think the problem is that those who are loudest are heard. People then assume that they represent the whole group.

Some fans of football teams do something stupid and then it seems to reflect poorly on all the fans of that team.

People judge all Muslims by the acts of some.

All lawyers are parasites who feed off the complicated legal system, right?

This goes for race, sexual orientation, or any group.

The point is that all groups have a diversity and what we hear or see most publically isn't reflective of the whole all the time.

[GIJeff]

except raiders fans ARE crazy and evil.

[freeblue]

i think the problem is the silent majority who allowed the minor extremists to do their dirty works. they can appeals to be more open minded and forgiven at the same time, but they're no better than those extremists (that they allowed to represented them), they want what those extremists want but they don't want to get their hands dirty getting them.

in my mind, they're more cowards than those few extreme conservatives, otherwise the "silent majority" would've speak their minds against those that misrepresented them. and yet, all i see and hear are silent approval.

[JsonHenry]

Lol, this reminds me of when I was a kid. I was baby sat by a lady that went to church with me. She would not let us or her kids watch the Smurfs because Gargamel was a sorcerer. But then she turned around and read them the ENTIRE Lord of the Rings trilogy... WTF?!

I still have nightmares about that old hag!

[gaminoz]

Smurfs?

J R R Tolkein was a Christian and mate of C.S. Lewis, so maybe that's why it was okay for her? Still, the hypocracy seems obvious.

Sort of like having World Of Warcraft on that 'bad games' list when apparently I've been told, there is a Christian group on there who preach the gospel to anyone who is interested. SO they are using a game to reach people who might otherwise have been too intimidated to go to church. And it's on the list? Not much research done by a company that's supposed to research....

Also....MGS4 on the list (for 'homo-erotic' tendencies? LOL)

[Superfragilistic]

Personally I'm an atheist but I have nothing against those who choose to have a faith... except for those zealots who contradict their very own teachings!

I particularly dug the “Why do you see the speck in your brother’s eye but fail to notice the beam in your own eye?” (Matthew 7:3). Nice!

Thank you for an intelligently argued piece and pointing out that games are simply the new lackey for moral panic just like radio, TV, Comic Books, Hollywood, Rock n Roll, Hip Hop, etc, before it.

[poeo]

as a fellow atheist i agree. and "moral panic" is great term to understand, i just read about it a while back myself, heh.

[RememberThe357]

You'd think eventually that we'd get the point.

People are fundamentally flawed, and the ways in which we express our selfs will show that. We need to step out of this view of perfection and move into a view of reality.

The problems are not the expressions, the problems are what is being expessed. If there are a ton of songs about murder then maybe we have a bit of a murder problem going on.

Telling some one to not express their reality only closes you off to the problems that your society is facing.

[Superfragilistic]

Well put mate. Nothing worse than sticking your head in the sand. Bubbles! :D

[Steelspawn]

What I don't understand is that games, like movies and such are created to entertain. I don't think any company considers to develop games to purposely go out and target sexes, religion, beliefs, nationalities and such

[Shnazzyone]

not many games left for buyers who don't like wiimusic.. that's religion for ya'!

[XboxOZ360]

Well it's not religion per-se' .. but those who tend to exploit it for their own gains. Namely the investment firm aiming to capalise on its investors,steering them in the direction they (the firm) wants, not what the investor might want.

SO it has little to do with religion as such, just how it is used as a tool, just as they do politians with the so-called "to save the children" tag line they attach to anything to do with censorship and games etc etc. Especially here in Australia.

[gaminoz]

What I want to know is why Pokemon isn't on the list for its ability to make youngsters addicted. My sons play Pokemon games constantly on DS, Wii, GCN, Advance: they collect the cards, look at the game books, they watch the dvds, they watch it on Youtube. They are obsessed with its world like those stuck in World of Warcraft-land.

It is at least as addictive and just because it's cartoony doesn't excuse it. I have to check on them to make sure they are taking breaks from its universe...and its from a videogame. Too cute to be damaging, according to the firm?

[XboxOZ360]

I agree, many "games" irrespective of the genre' can be addictive, and parental intervention is definitely needed, which it seems you do, 10/10 for that.

But it seems that wouldn't raise the hair on many "good citizens" necks nearly enough as blaming a violent game for the obsessions of some teens, or like recently, blaming the shooting of a person stealing goods on the goods being stolen.

And it this case, an Xbox 360. .So who gets the blame, the young man doing the stealing, which by the way is against the law irrespective of the goods being stolen, or the fact he was stealing a terrible, mind altering device like the xbox 360.

We all know which one gets the blame of course . .The console - naturally . .. dahh.

[TruthbeTold]

You're the parent. If your kids are playing a game excessively or get into it beyond reason, then take it away, tell them why, and ease restrictions on it over time if they learn the lesson and you see fit.

If that's what you are doing then great. But it seems as if you feel that some group should organize, and speak out against a game rather than parents take responsibility for what they allow their children to do, and to what extent they do it? That attitude is causing unnecessary problems in the gaming world.

[gaminoz]

@ Truthbetold

No I was trying to point out that Pokemon should be on that 'addictive' list as much as World Of Warcraft, but probably isn't because it is cartoony.

But yes, as a parent it is up to me to monitor my kids...but I do think Pokemon and the constant need to upgrade or capture another Pokemon and be on at a certain time etc.. does make my kids show 'obssessive' and 'addictive' behaviour.

[Covenant]

Nice article. Pretty fair and unbiased.

I have three friends who are both hardcore gamers AND hardcore Christians...so the two aren't incompatible.

[Mutley416]

So What games am I gonna buy again...
Any group that says DONT BUY THIS GAME...OR THAT`S NOT RIGHT!!!
just drives the sales of that product... It`s almost better to offend for the free publicity-

Art,Lit,Music,Dance,Theater & Video Games... Are up for debate...

[gaminoz]

I think they wanted to get some positive publicity for their firm. See we are great; we put out a list of games that are a threat and rate them according to homo erotic, violence, prostitution etc.

[ElementX]

Ok, I've never understood the whole Christian gamer thing. Being Christian means "Christ-like", however I don't think Christ would condone any violent media in any form, regardless of whether or not it's "make believe". Seeing an R-rated gore fest movie or shooting Nazi's in COD would both be frowned up, I think.

Maybe I'm wrong, however. It's just my opinion.

A side note: The article talks about buying gifts for Christmas. Christmas started as a pagan holiday. The church wanted to convert pagans and let them keep their winter festival so it was easier to assimilate them, so it became a Christian holiday. Decorating trees started in pagan societies also. Scholars don't believe Christ was even born in December. I think that goes back to the solstice thing also.

[Xi]

december 25 is the shortest day of the year, giving birth to the "light" as from that day foward until the days get longer. Almost all gods/messiahs/prophets are born on that day.

[LebaNoob]

And your point is?

[gaminoz]

Well you'd be pretty silly to try and get people to join your new religion if you didn't keep some continuity between what they already did and celebrated. So, they had a winter solstice and Christianity integrated it to fit into their beliefs. It worked and now it has been known to most as Christmas. Either way the season is about celebration.

As for Christian gamers, I think nobody can truly be perfectly "Christ-like" as you put it. Humans do get pleasure from violence, be in sport, film, tv or video games. I think for a Christian it is more about how they are supposed to treat real people as Jesus would want them to. Nobody will always succeed. It is the trying that is important.

If you are a person who can be totally peaceful and kind and go without violent video games, tv, movies, then that's great. Not every person can achieve a 'higher standard' and not judge others or be hypocritical, and that goes for all people, Christian or not. Some have tried to be perfect and strict (eg. puritans) but often end up critical and rule-focused.

By the way, I think the bible has plenty of violent stories too, involving people, God, and including the battles between good and evil.

[ElementX]

My side note is just that, a side not. An extra tidbit of information. I brought it up because the article talked about games children might ask for for Christmas. It's history, not a religious debate. Take it for what it's worth.

[Superfragilistic]

I think there's a pretty strong argument for Christianity advocating, or at the very least accepting, violence. If someone can find me a book as violent as the Bible which is full of rape, genocide, mass murder, etc, (much of which is advocated by a vengeful God), I'd love a link.

If the Bible were a video game all other game's would be child's play! lol

[Lombax]

The first time I heard about the da vinci code was because of the religious people saying not to watch the movie. Then I found out it was a book. They're like those signs in a Wheres Waldo Book that read "Don't read this" They point at something and tell you not to look at it. I find it rather funny the way some people choose to waste their time.

I recommend u wast it here at least u might learn something.

It may be a little long but it is definitely a good watch. And it may help shed some light on the subject matter.

[bbelly9320_]

"Like you, I am Christian and have suffered and I am still suffering the effects of CYBERVIOLENCE AND ABUSE ONLINE.

I believe that games and any other media content that promotes any type of violence should be shunned."

^ I hope that guy is a bad troll.

[Xi]

Take bioshock for example, if you're given the choice to kill a child for adam, it's completely dependant on your actions. If you honestly believe that those who you are teaching are growing up to be moral citizens, then why deduct a point as you should already assume they'd never kill one of them.

Or fable and mass effect for that matter, yes it's possible to be gay but it's not being forced onto you in any way if you decide against pursuing those actions.

If you're really "hardcore" religious you're not going to be gay in fable or mass effect, because you'd adhere to the teachings of your good book. If anything it's just a very good example of how strict your followers are, or a tool to teach your kids.

[gaminoz]

Games that have a strong "consequence for actions" theme I think are promoting concerns that are often found in religion and society.

There's also a sense of perspective here: a gamer might be hot stuff on COD4 but I doubt he'd love shooting and ducking in Iraq for real.

[Immortal Kaim]

That is why I enjoy games with 'tangible' consequences, it becomes a mirror into how the person portrays themselves in society.

[XboxOZ360]

notice that in one of the pics, it's tied to a christian gaming group using Halo 2/3 . . Violence and christians all in one.

It matters not what religion you are, or background you come from. There will always be violence of one form or another within it, just like the rest of society.

Tryingto distance yourself (thegroup) from violence only makes that group outto be hypocritical.. Whereas - ifthey accepted that yes, we do have it, and it is part of life in general, but we try to police it within= our own group, thehn that would be seen much more positively, than saying, no, we do NOT do it, and we don't want anyone else to do it either . .because we are right, they (you) are wrong.

There's always two sides to everything, and the writer is coming from a side of balance and good level headed thinking. The report on the other hand, and the site that originally published it - GameingPoliticts always look for the most out-spoken items and run with those because they know it will gain attention.

Certain not to better the understanding of both parties, but simply to gain attention. Much like a child would do if they wanted to get attention - act-out.

I have Muslims, Jewish, Christian and pagan (whatever that is as Christmas was a pagan affair once) and they are all the same . .Many play games, we converse about life, religion and being human. None are "hardcore militant ppl. and in fact, hate those that portray all of their kind as such.

I've had dinners with all of them present in one room, and we've all got on great, and still maintain a great relationship. So it shows that it's not about the religion per-se', but about the ppl within that group, no matter what the group is.

[Mutley416]

I Know a cristian Gaming Clan (SOG) Son`s on God...
There are all over the 360....They play Shooters and every thing else.

As long as a group does`nt take my choices away.

When a game comes along where I can RIp my Enemies head off and chainsaw him in half... I hope nobody stops me from playing or creating such a game.

Or how bout a game when you lose you get crucified...or maybe when you win...

NOT FOR THE PC...lol

[kesvalk]

i find it amusing that, they put games with themes like cooperation (gears of was, band of brothers, where the focus is not only kill the others guys, but banding togheter aganist the same evil) but they don't remember that brido is a pink MAN with a huge ribbon and a diamond ring that speaks like a woman...

the fact is that a lot of these zealots don't see the entire picture, and as a christian myself, i can say the same happens inside the religious matters too...

it's ppl like them that ashame the christianity...

[ClockworkSatan]

Well, that was refreshing. A wonderfully unbiased bunch of opinions from a Christian, of all things.

My personal take on controversial games is along the same lines, although I am an ardent atheist. I believe that games such as GTA4, which more or less glamourise violence, theft, sex, drugs, etc are morally repugnant and in an ideal world should have probably been banned, but I dislike things being banned for commercial consumption just because indiviuals like myself or a panel of stuck-up judges doesn't like them.

It is a free world, after all. Or, at least that's what our governments keep telling us...

[darkdoom3000]

pretty good article. (LOL @ God of war and Devil may cry.)

i keep religion as a privite thing. i dont let it effect anything else in my psyical life. (im hindu BTW) like it says evoloution is a no-no. but I belive it. i dont care what other people think, its their lives and they should be able to live it any way they like unless it effects someone else. Its amusing cause i really like greek mythology. some people take religion too far. i mean whats up with the anti gay marrage people, its not going to effect them in any way if they are allowed or not allowed to get married.

girl in my class, some of my friends were reading harry potter all the time (release of 7th book), and this girl would always say that they were supporting Witchcraft. wtf... pretty amusing kid.

[andron]

Religious or not, parents should educate themselves about their childrens activities and hobbies. And most people agree that 5 year olds probably shouldn't play Saints Row 2

I am a non-religious person so I find the whole christian/religious gaming concept silly. (I don't call myself an atheist anymore, because non-religious is a more fitting term in my case).

People should think and decide for themselves what they think is appropriate for them and their families.

And the whole seeing homo-erotic overtones everywhere smack of moral panic to me...

[darkjanus]

a faih based on book that encourages slavery as well as includes a practical guide on how to beat your wife and slaves. Add in some incest rape and violence and you have the perfect book for bigots.

Its perfectly acceptable to teach this stuff to kids, just dont let them play supermario, hes really the DEVIL

P.S the bible also says christians cant eat bacon so i guess it sucks to be you

[Esena]

You obviously have never read the bible and are only spurting out things that you heard. It is all the same straw-man argument...the bible says this this this this and this, yet you are just spreading what you hear.

Read it. If you did you would know that slavery in the bible isn't what we think of slavery. Just one little fact for you. :)

And even if Christians were not allowed to eat bacon, which I don't know where you get that either and you are simple misinterpreting what you are hearing, I think that would be the least of the Christian's worries.

[leftbehindxp]

1 Corinthians 11:7-9 and 14:33-35. Not really about wife beating, but defiantly patriarchy there...

Anywho, the comments that Gaimonz says is around my opinion about this. Didn't want to repeat the same stuff he said.

[Lombax]

@ 17.1
Tell me oh Christian one, how would you "interpret" these?

JOH 10:30 I and my Father are one.

JOH 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
----------------------------- ------------------------------- -----
PSA 145:9 The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works.

JER 13:14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them
----------------------------- ------------------------------- -----
"... I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved." -- Genesis 32:30

"No man hath seen God at any time..."-- John 1:18
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"The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father..." -- Ezekiel 18:20

"I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation..." -- Exodus 20:5
----------------------------- ------------------------------- -------
(quoted from 17.1)
"You obviously have never read the bible"
(End quote)

Apparently the same could be said about you.

The following passage shows that slaves are clearly property to be bought and sold like livestock.

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)
----------------------------- ------------------------------- -----
Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)
----------------------------- ------------------------------- ------
Don't let cattle graze with other kinds of Cattle (Leviticus 19:19)

Don't have a variety of crops on the same field. (Leviticus 19:19)

Don't wear clothes made of more than one fabric (Leviticus 19:19)

Don't cut your hair nor shave. (Leviticus 19:27)

Any person who curseth his mother or father, must be killed. (Leviticus 20:9)

If a man cheats on his wife, or vise versa, both the man and the woman must die. (Leviticus 20:10)

If a man sleeps with his father's wife... both him and his father's wife is to be put to death. (Leviticus 20:11)

If a man sleeps with his wife and her mother they are all to be burnt to death. (Leviticus 20:14)

If a man or woman has sex with an animal, both human and animal must be killed. (Leviticus 20:15-16)

If a man has sex with a woman on her period, they are both to be "cut off from their people" (Leviticus 20:18)

Psychics, wizards, and so on are to be stoned to death. (Leviticus 20:27)

If a priest's daughter is a whore, she is to be burnt at the stake. (Leviticus 21:9)

People who have flat noses, or is blind or lame, cannot go to an altar of God (Leviticus 21:17-18)

Anyone who curses or blasphemes God, should be stoned to death by the community. (Leviticus 24:14-16)
----------------------------- ------------------------------- --------

And finally, for those that might not want to read all that, a clip from one of my favorite TV shows.

[DeathSyphon66]

Ask yourself Christians what would Jesus do? Would he judge them? I don't think so because I'm pretty sure Jesus was all about NOT judging people.

[gaminoz]

Actually, though you're spot on overall, I think he was pretty critical of those greedy money changers and those who chose certain rules and traditions over treating people decently. Many think he was just nice and peaceful all the time, but from what I've heard he could be quite confrontational, even as a pacifist. Why else was he killed?

[darkjanus]

@Esena

you know whats really funny, unlike 90% of christians i have read the bible, went to ta catholic scool where it was forced down my throat.

Admittedly i used a straw man arguement but this is a game forum, didnt really want to make a full arguement as that would take a while, and i had to get to labs in the morning.

the point im trying to make is hardcore christians are bidots. They preach this and that yet are happy to pick and choose which bit of the bible they follow. For example theyare happy to use the bible in arguement against gay rights, but they dont demand the right to have slaves.

Straw man again but i need sleep. You spaned 10 hours in a chemustry lab and youll know why. Anyways the point is you cant pick and choose from your sacred text. Either its all true or none of its true.

and thanks lombax and leftbehind xp for backing me up on this.

P.S cant remember which passage is about bacon but it outlaws pork in general. I simply cant live with a religion that could ban something do delicious

[gaminoz]

Well I'll use my last bubble to make a quick note on all this...which by the way is getting way off topic.

The article points out that not all Christians are the same, nor do they think the same. So painting everyone the same in any group isn't helping (this isn't addressed at you darkjanus, but 'you' as in everyone). Much of what is in the bible is contextual and cultural for the historic period. Also Jesus was sent to change things up a bit from the Old Testament way of doing things.

HOWEVER, if you can quote whatever you want (either a Christian doing it or non-Christian doing it) to back your arguments, you may be missing the central point that the bible can offer: how to treat people. Jesus treated women, different races, sick, hated people, prostitutes, etc. in a revolutionary 'social justice' way for those times. We (which does also include many Christians and churches) still struggle to do that. Focus on that instead of the endless debate and it becomes simpler for both non-Christians and Christians to see something in there about caring for people (all people) more.

Sorry, I didn't mean to get too preachy, especially on a games site, but judgementalism (is that a word?) seems to be rearing its head on both sides. Peace in gaming, people :)

Hey, imagine if Sony fanboys and Xbox Xbots could get along!! Wow! Utopia!

[Esena]

I completely agree with you that too many Christians pick and chose which to follow, and that is absolutely not the right thing to do.

@Lombax

Once again...slavery in the bible is not like slavery today. It was more like people went into slavery to help themselves because they were that desperate. Trying to understand the OT by reading only the English text is ridiculously hard. You have to know the history, Hebrew, and do tons of research to truly interpret the OT effectively. So, I am not currently on that level, but that surely doesn't mean I don't know the bible.

Secondly, I am not going to write explanations for all the scripture you posted. But i can give you some advice. Read the context around the scripture. Scripture alone is worthy, but you have to understand whats behind it in order for you, yourself, to understand it. Your first point is simply the trinity, one nature, three in persons.

The problem with your view is that you think being put to death in the OT was an uncommon thing. Life back then was not nearly as forgiving as it is today. This was the law, and needed to be obeyed. But praise be to God, that he sent the his Son, Jesus Christ. For we are no longer under the law, but under grace.

If you really want to have a detailed convo Lombax, PM me, and with some actual questions, not just random scripture lines.