GDC 2008: Why Developers Develop for the Xbox 360

Some developers explain why they develop on the xbox 360.

[Lucreto]

Funny that these developers like the 360 because some features are already made on live and the programming is familiar to them so its easier to program while Insomniac is out there looking for a challenge trying to do new things and with nothing given to them on a silver platter. Now they are giving out what they have learned to others.

[Blankman]

i agree with you a 100%. Sony needs to strike some kind of deal with insomniac so they can buy them. Insomniac has off course expressed their desire not to be taken over but at this point they are sony's most important devs. They have to make sure they don't split. They have two great franchises under the sony brand name so if sony can strike a deal with them sort of like msoft and bungie giving them way more creative freedom i think insomniac might take it.
Back on topic this title is misleading. There was no debating 360 is easier to develop for at least compared to ps3 lol the real question is downright which one can be pushed further. Notice how he said its not about hardware specs at the beginning of the video. Subtly implying the 360 is lacking in that dept.

[C_SoL]

that's goin to change.

[kornbeaner]

While I agree with some of what you said, Insomniac not having help is not true. Insomniac and Naughty Dog Along with a few others are in that "SPECIAL" group of Sony friends that get more help then other Dev's. While it might not be Silver platter status it is help. But I do see where you comment is coming from.

[BloodySinner]

"Insomniac is out there looking for a challenge trying to do new things and with nothing given to them on a silver platter."
-
Yeah, because they just happen to be Sony's 2nd party game developer. It's not like they have much of a choice anyway. Oh, the irony.

[jmare]

@ 1 off topic: nice mask of eternity icon.
on topic: this is from MS's keynote(?), what else do people expect them to say? "360 iz teh suxxorz"

EDIT: bloodysinner, Insomniac actually has a choice. They choose to work with Sony. But as an independent studio, they can tell sony to bite the big one and go work with someone else. They probably like working with sony due to the freedom that sony gives them. For a publisher to allow a studio to take a chance and make a game completly different than what they're known for, also as a launch title, is a big deal. Why would Insomniac want to leave people they're comfortable working with?

[BloodySinner]

I wasn't really questioning whether they were comfortable working with Sony or not. I was simply pointing out the reality of things. At this point in time, Sony does not have much of a choice because they need all the backup they can get. So game developers like Insomniac are given artistic "freedom".

Also, keep in mind I am NOT trying to tarnish their name. They have created awesome titles for the PlayStation 3 system so far.

I wish 'em the best.

[ruibing]

Meanwhile, Sony's top developers are sharing their development technologies to improve the PS3 community. Naughty Dog wrote their engine in C/C++ so they can share with first and second party developers, while Insomniac just announced Nocturnal Initiative to share their source codes on a public website for all developers.

[Lord Anubis]

bloodysinner don't be silly, insomniac has had creative freedom since the PS2 era (during the PS1 era they were under universal) the same goes for naughty dog and other developers this isn't just during the PS3 era other wise insomniac would not have had stayed with sony.

[wow4u]

"Funny that these developers like the 360 because some features are already made on live and the programming is familiar to them so its easier to program"

They like that the "OS" provides an excellent and consistent relationship between the player, his friends, media, DLC, settings, accomplishments and the like, within the game.

"while Insomniac is out there looking for a challenge trying to do new things"

No. They arent doing "new" things, they are having (as are all the rest of PS3 game developers) to re-invent the wheel with every single game. The result? A hodge-podge of features here, there. Some games have some features, some games lack some features.

All these features arent core to the gameplay experience itself (like, say, starting a video-call with a pal to ask if he wants to join a game? or sending a nice voice message along to someone after you declined his game-invite) but are *ALWAYS* elegantly implemented and availabel for the gamer to use, and the game to utilize.

"and with nothing given to them on a silver platter"

So the developers burn money repeating the same half-implemented features that the Xbox 360 has universally avaliable.

"Now they are giving out what they have learned to others."

Yet, all those features take less memory and less CPU resources away from the game on the Xbox 360 than similar features implemented on the PS3 requires vast amounts of resources.

----

Your description and assesment of the situation is 1000% EXACTLY wrong.

You clearly havent the remotest bit of intellectual honesty. In fact, you're just apologizing for Sony's spectacular shortcomings.

@1.7:
No one is talking about in-game content, like game engines and the like.

Have you ever used the Xbox 360 Guide? That's the functionality that should not be a game-by-game implementation. Further, there are big big mandatory resource requirements necessary to implement these features on the PS3.

[wow4u]

@ Lucreto:

Want to read something _really funny_?

From this story:
http://www.n4g.com/events_g...

"Sony's worldwide studios head Phil Harrison agreed, "It won't be characterised by graphics and processing power and storage media in this generation, it will be characterised by servers, community, using created content and all the things that the game developer doesn't do."

So, Phil thinks your W*R*O*N*G. Thanks.

[jmare]

This is hardly objective. This video seems to have come from MS's keynote considering the echo and how absolutely no one mentioned any other platform at all. And if this is from MS's keynote, what the hell do you expect them to say? Would have been more impressive if it was someone asking flat-out: Which platform do you prefer, PS3,360, or Wii?

[Panthers]

I think it is from M$ keynote.

[Anything but Cute]

What does this mean anyway? PS3 still reached 10 million in less time than 360.

And with all developers still learning and getting comfortable with PS3

[360_Rules]

That is the reason PS3 sold faster then the 360. A lot of people bought it for a cheap Blu-Ray player.

[kewlkat007]

I have no Problems with Developers being Bias with a certain architecture. Early in a consoles life, devs might play it "safe" as oppose to taking "risk", I cannot blame them. These mofos gotta get paid.

Who am I to be the spoiled brat, I mean yeah it might suck and all but, I can't hate, bash, or boycott like some fanboys been doing for no apparent reasons because they are fanboys and have the need for their console of choice, to be justified over the other..

Just as Kojima is bias with the 360,(his games have sold well on the PS name) that is fine with me. Besides other things, It's safe for him I'm sure. (especially 360 and Japan)

If a developer doesn't want to risk a platform and wants to make the quick money on another until they can get a grip on the non-favored platform, then easy, I buy the other Console.
Hey it works for me...never disappoints.

The xbox 360 has it's Pro and Cons just as PS3. Xbox played it Safe, Sony did not. One is the Underdog and One has been the Top dog. This is just business strategy. Take it for what it is, unless you have some superiority complex, as a lot do on N4G. Technically the PS3 has some Pros on the Hardware side,but with some Cons on the software side which was expected. That still does not mean I cannot and will not enjoy great games on the 360.

[v1c1ous]

when valve/EA wants to concentrate on pc/360, they are retards who don't want to try new things and suck at being developers

EDIT:

Adding "/sarcasm" tag since people are having trouble whenever i make a sarcastic comment

[thekingofMA]

im a 360 fan and i still think thats pretty funny-but i cant tell if youre being sarcastic or not?

[Peekay]

We've never seen Kojima and Square make a gimped high profile game for the 360 - the difference - quality. Now Valve and EA on the other hand - Madden and The Orange Box ring on PS3 any bells?

[mintaro]

i dont understand your comment
so basically when devs only work the PS3 its great, but when devs work only on the 360 its crap, with no innovation? how so

[Silver360]

Tell developers how to spend their money. Will you reimburse them if your way flops? They have to make decisions based on sales and time tables. Sometimes the fan boyish behavior is so dumb. Developers are running a business not a fan club. If they don't have to do something it saves them money. If it takes more time to develop on the PS3 that costs them money. Insomniac makes games for Sony because Sony pays them. Period!!! None of these developers have the luxury of making games for fun if they want to stay in business. One flop and they can be gone. It is a very hard business to be in.

[jmare]

I think someone needs some Xanax. Most developers started with the360 in 2007 because is was the easy choice. Now, in 2008 things are a little different. PS3 owners are becoming vocally displeased at the lack of quality and developers are taking notice that the PS3's sales are picking up. Now they are coming up with a solution that works for both: Develop on the PS3 and then port over to the 360. It raises the overall quality of multiplats and keeps the PS3 user base content so the publishers don't start to lose money.

As far as sony paying Insomniac, no $hit. But that doesn't mean Insomniac can't go other places. And considering their track record, I'm sure there would be plenty of publishers willing to pick them up.

[antoinetm]

thanks for the propaganda microsoft.

And dont forget to transfer the money to their account.

this thing couldnt sound more fake.

"With the 360 we are able to press start and actually start the game, thank you microsoft, oh wait.. what are those 3 red light for?"

[wow4u]

In the future --->

[antoinetm]

You might as well report half of the comments ever made on this site.

This is called sarcasm and i'm sorry if its not tolerated in your little totalitarian world but its one way to express an opinion.

Bear with it. This is not going to change.

[Xibot]

if ea focuses on the 360 it's nothing special, but because square focuses on the ps3 it's because the ps3 is god's gift to man. The difference is that if ea focused on the ps3, sony fanboy's would be screaming that ea is a revolutionary developer setting the standard.

That and the on going attempt to re-affirm the ps3's tech superioity over the 360.

It's just a catch 22 that's been around since the start of this gen.

by no means is this special to sony, it's just something that seems a bit more prolific in their base camp because sony exclusive games are only for the pc, while MS exclusive games are for both pc and 360, and because fanboy's on either side have their favored dev's.

I mean, I could say the 360 is better because great developers like bungie, bioware and valve seem to support it more, and IMO they're better than Kojima and Square, but that would lead to a bunch of flamming with regards to japanese developers vs western developers.

That and I prefer to stay on the fense, both consoles have their up's and downs.

[Xibot]

there's a couple typo's, where I said sony games are exclusive to the pc, I meant ps3. That and my spelling/grammar is aful. My apologies.

[JohnRico]

Also like how Sony fans would say they have no interest in a game when its a 360 exclusive. Just look at the Left 4 Dead is a 360 exclusive section

[antoinetm]

absolutely wrong

gaiden 2 pwns
gears pwns
bioshock pwns
halo pwns

but thats all...

[Pain]

That Cant Handle the Raw Juice the PS3 has to offer, So the take the easy root and go old gen
and Keep making pish~posh next-gen games.

08 is going to hurt lazy Dev's.

teh Cell and Blu are ACKING For a real Dev to Grasp is Greatness by teh~ballz and Make some perrty games

[BrianC6234]

I'll have to take your word on it since I can't stand to watch a video that freezes every second. There's just something horrible about the gametrailers site. No matter when or where I am when I try to watch their videos they always play horrible. Maybe they could add more bandwidth to make it run smoother.

[ravinshield]

there are always sony homos in every 360 news, dont you guys got games to play or atleast replay.or just buy a xbox 360 already

[Anything but Cute]

Not to mention PS3 is predicted to murder in 2008.

So these 3 developers might change their mind.

[JasonPC360PS3Wii]

Your post should be that way ------------>

[Slayer OP]

Maybe you should post "-----> that way" If you dont like to hear facts. You can gob on about meaningless fanboy stuff all you like over there! Sounds perfect for you!

[360_Rules]

You PS3 fanboys make me sick! Try to use logic more often ok!

[CG]

The ps3 was predicted to pwn on release day wasnt it?, and we all know what happened there lol. you sony biatches are like a broken record....talking the same crap everyday.

[JasonPC360PS3Wii]

Would you rather dig a ditch with your hands or a shovel, or would it be easer with a bulldozer? The PS3 is digging it with a spoon, while still trying to learn to use a shovel.

They been telling everyone this for two years now, and the quality and sales numbers for the games show that.

[antoinetm]

the 360 is digging with a shovel that keeps breaking after a little while because it was made out of cheap wood.

the ps3 on the other hand is a bulldozer that only a few people know how to operate.

i suggest u look at the current trend in term of sales and not rely on numbers from a year ago.

ggthxbye

[kewlkat007]

at the most important thing to developers "Software/Content Sales"

Compare what the Ms platform, Sony platform and Nintendo platform has done and tell me that trend...

Hardware is expected to sell with price-cuts and other functions of the hardware, it's a no-brainer.

Software is another Story, it is never a given, unless it's a big Franchise that has a good History.

Everyone is quick to point out growing trends of Hardware but negates Software. Something the 360 has done very well. So it's not all about growing trends of hardware sales.

jmare -Below so with the 360's install-bast and games that have sold very well, which platform you think Devs would most likely choose if they wanted to make money back fast?

Of course a no-brainer the Hard-ware must sell, but if nobody is buying games even with a big install-base then what does that tell Devs?

[jmare]

Developers look at both. Higher hardware sales correlate to higher software sales. All last year developers were saying that it comes down to install base as to which platform to lead with. Bigger install base means more chances to sell your product. And usually the larger install base does sell more copies.

[kewlkat007]

but didn't DMC4 sell more on PS3?

There are more factors at play when it comes to software.

Sometimes it's the games that push hardware sales..as the case with the 360.

What do you think has been selling PS3's?

[antoinetm]

although u bring a valid point, if i remember correctly PS3-softW outsold 360-softw in europe despite the 360 having a larger install base there (correct me if im wrong)

Also, because the 360 had been released a year before the ps3 it has a bigger library and more mature games plus it has 1 more year of software sales.

Anyways, i think that both console reached a critical mass that developers would be foolish to ignore. Unless they are paid for exclusivity or lazy (looking @ u valve)

But in the end i think the ps3 will dominate.

[Slayer OP]

Last time I checked more developers were starting with ps3 and porting to 360 because it makes for better and more graphically even multiplatform games on both consoles.

[DJ]

The entire segment was a plea for developers to stop focusing on the PS3, despite having great tools, offering significantly more power and storage space, and having a more open, flexible online network. Microsoft must be in a tough position if they have to put out this much sob rhetoric.

I don't blame them though. Seriously, how do you counter facts like "Our hardware is inferior"? By saying hardware doesn't matter, as they state in this video.

[kewlkat007]

More Power and Space where did you get that from?

The Jaguar and 3Do and as well as Sega Saturn negates that Argument.

The Original Xbox was more superior and look Sony PS2 still sold over 100 mill consoles.

Look at Nintendo if you wanna talk about Power and space, do yo u need to be all technological and superior to be successful?

I think everything counts as a whole not just Hardware.

[DJ]

for the most part. What the Xbox had was more RAM (though slower RAM) and a great GPU for shader effects, stuff that PS2 devs had to do manually (and couldn't do very well). PS3 really is better than the 360 from a hardware standpoint though, and by a huge margin.

As for tools, Microsoft and Sony are providing great tools this time around, which is awesome. But as for your statement "More Power and Space where did you get that from?"

Cell, Blu-ray, RSX, FlexI/O.

[wow4u]

Do you live on planet ridiculous?

The Xbox 360 is clearly leading in 3rd party support. Multi-plats are better. And, outside of a few super-budget games from Sony 1st/2nd party, there hasnt *EVEN* remotely been a AAA game.

[Rhezin]

the ps3's the one with no balls

[psnDevistator356]

post this crap

[Mr Marbles]

You give us one good reason why it should not be posted. The question asked to these guys was probably, what do you enjoy about developing on the 360. The 360 is a game console, and these guys make games, sounds like gaming news to me.

So why should it not be posted, because you are a biased brain dead zombie of a "gamer" who literally worships the corporation that makes your console of choice, and anything positive about any console other than your console of choice is seen by you as a waste of time? Nevermind what other gamers maybe interested in, you want the news censored so that your makebelieve world of Sony only dominance is left intact. Your a sad excuse for a gamer, if it hurts your feelings to hear anything positive about any platform other than the one you have become a slave to, then get off the internetz.

[wow4u]

MS has implemented an infrastructure with The Guide and Xbox LIVE.

PS3 owners, please read this story:
http://ozymandias.com/archi...

There are two issues at hand with PSN & "IG-XMB (Guide-like in-game features)

A) The PSN facilitating these things *outside* of the game. Being consistent and available to every game, gamer at all times.

B) In order to implement these features "in-game" (like The Guide), the PS3 requires that the GAME give up CPU & Memory resources. like, *a lot* of resouces.

*I* really wish PS3 owners would stop shouting for a moment to understand the situation.

Why do Xbox 360 Developers *prefer* the Xbox 360 solution? Because it is *vastly* more featureful and elegant. They dont have to re-implement a bunch of non-game "stuff", they can spend their time and money building a better *GAME*.

[DJ]

Without giving the developer any say, whether they choose to implement stuff like online Voice Chat or not. Both systems take away CPU and memory resources for OS functionality; the PS3's OS simply gives developers choice on things like custom soundtracks and whatnot. The PS3 OS is larger though, and thankfully they've been constantly streamlining it. For example, the PS3's OS no longer requires usage of GDDR3 RAM (as far as I know).

Personally, I wish Sony enforced at least some of those features into its OS. (Custom Soundtracks especially, since my Xbox could do it.)

[Bladestar]

ohh.. ok.. I think things are changing... well... for EA... and Capcom... the Playstation fan community hate towards them for not making great games for the platform...

What change you ask? Well... that now the community is now going to hate...

2K Boston
Bethesda
Turn 10
Infinity ward
Ubisoft Montreal
Bungie
Harmonix

because of this video! hehe! It seems as if the only games Playstation fans are going to buy or the only developers playstation fans are not going to hate are those making exclusive games for the PS3... "Freaken EA are lazy... Freaken Valve are lazy! freaken Capcom are lazy (5GB install)....

DJ please go away... just don't talk... "PS3, despite having great tools" how do you know.. have you being near the PS3 SDK? do you program games? So, please tell us why should people take your opion over:

2K Boston
Bethesda
Turn 10
Infinity ward
Ubisoft Montreal
Bungie
Harmonix

We are talking about Proven developers all know to create AAA titles.... all of them created games that sold more than any PS3 exclusive game.... hell... Infinity ward is responsible for probably the best PS3 game currently available... So their opionion about which console they prefer should be respected more than your non-proffesional anti-xbox one.

It's no secret... Microsoft is a software company and is capable of creating better software development tools and SDKs... fact... don't they make they freaken make DirectX? Microsoft is already doing research as far as software development is concern.. many years of experience and imput from the development community as to what tools they would like to have and how they would like their development environment...

Is the PS3 better built and have better hardware? Freaken duhhh! Microsoft is not a hardware company and had to outsource the hardware since they don't have the factories or the experience Sony has in that department.

Many of these developers praise the PS3 in terms of hardware before... many of the prefer hardware related things that the PS3 has that the xbox 360 does not have.. i.e. built in hard drive or even the fact that they have more disc storage...

but this video is not about hardware is about software... is about development tools and the fact that microsoft 95% a software company is reflected on the xbox 360 OS signature, in game features, xbox live, etc.... and that they are not a hardware company (RROD).... and the fact that Sony is 95% hardware reflect too... PS3 is more reliable in terms of hardware, it's better build.. because Sony has many years of experience in that department... there is a reason why Sony does not have their on OS in the computers they make... but use Microsoft Windows... There is a reason they Sony does not have their own SDK like DirectX instead they use OpenGL..

Add microsoft SDK and developement tools to the PS3 and give developers the tools that they have on the xbox 360 with the PS3 hardware and see what you get...

Microsoft outsource many Parts and paid many companies to build the hardware and those companies screwed up... remember the news at first about the issues with the RAM?

It seems this is the reason why Microsoft has build a closer relationship with Toshiba... that's the reason why Toshiba pretty much build the Zune.. Toshiba is known to build great hardware... that the reason you hear rumors of Toshiba making an xbox 360... and there are also rumors that Toshiba will be the one responsible for the xbox 720 hardware... That also explains why microsoft supported HD DVD... and also why Toshiba is not siding with microsoft on digital distribution...

I am a software developer... do you know why there are more programs and developers for windows? because there are a lot more tools, computer languages....

You see.. some people think that hardware is more important that software... they are wrong... you can have the best hardware in earth.. but if you don't have the proper development tools to use that hardware it's useless... all the power the PS3 has didn't stop the developers from screwing up their games for the past 1 1/2 years.... Hardware is important... but not the most important... specially when the difference between the xbox 360 and the PS3 in terms of memory, CPU, GPU is not as big as comparing the PS1 against the PS2....

Developers prefer tools that make their life easier and allow them to express their ideas in a cost effective way... they make money on software not hardware.... if you ask any developer now they would say... I want 2GB of RAM on the PS3 and the xbox 360... and thank you if you give it to them... but will hate you gut if in returm you ask them to work 10 times more to be able to use it.

Microsoft knows that games is where the money is at... they also know that by microsoft making development tools that developers love the games will keep comming... 3 year from now, the PS3 hardware and the xbox 360 hardware will smell like poop to developers... they will say, 512MB ram hah! I remember those days... but they will love the fact that the next xbox will have the same development tools and familiarity they always had on the PC, xbox and xbox 360... while like Sony did with the PS1, PS2, and PS3 the PS4 will probably require them to learn everything all over...

[VigorousApathy]

I didn't watch the video, but if they said anything other than money they lied.

[Sony sucks balls]

I'll have to take your word for it cause why would I want to think for myself that hurts to much.

[Avto]

Why Developers Develop for the Xbox 360? cuz they're cheap and lazy why else