Rare: 'Natal Can Create Any Experience'

Projekt7tuning - 47 days 23 hours ago

I wonder what a basketball game could be like? If it could tell how hard your trying to throw the ball or the angle you let the ball go, think of the possibility's. If it could do the thinks im imagining, you could make some absolutely killer FPS, and sports games.

If your going to disagree please dont hide behind your keyboard and say nothing, give me a valid point for your disagree.

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N4G king - 47 days 23 hours ago

role # 1
never listen to first party developers

why
because they = (Sony's or Microsoft's) pet dog

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gaffyh - 47 days 23 hours ago

@1.2 - Exactly. What do you expect them to say?

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Blaster_Master - 47 days 23 hours ago

Hahahahahahaha! Haha cough chaha chahhaaahaa! Now Rare thinks they can make idiotic statements about natal?! Here's some advice Rare. Actions speak louder then words. Make a game that utilizes it before you run your mouth.

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Projekt7tuning - 47 days 23 hours ago

There are already three of you on here that I fully expected to see here. Your past history has been absolutely worthless toward the 360 yet you fell utterly compelled to post in every 360 story. Freudian slip/theory maybe.

@1.6
Notice in 1.1 I posed a question. I also gave a hypothetical situation were I thought it might be kinda fun. Now please enlighten all of us on your hypothetical horrors to natal.

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Cenobia - 47 days 23 hours ago

Tell me how you move around in those games you're thinking of...

...and Natal falls apart.

EDIT:

I'm asking another question, how do you move more than 3 feet in each direction using Natal. I assume your idea for a basketball and FPS game require movement through 3 dimensional space. There isn't enough room in your living room, and you'll end up walking into your TV. Also, you can't turn around.

I guess you could just create 9 squares on the floor, moving to each quadrant for forwards, sideways, diagnal, etc. movement, but I don't see how that could be accurate. Also, it basically just makes Natal a better eyetoy combined with a better DDR dance pad.

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gaffyh - 47 days 22 hours ago

@1.5 - Well there's no point talking about Natal is there? Unless they can show everyone how they can make a game that is non-casual on it, it's useless to me as a core gamer.

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Jinxstar - 47 days 22 hours ago

Projekt7

I was one who disagree'd with you. I didn't take any bubbles or anything I just seriously don't think Natal will even come close to whats promised... I can imagine a lot of cool things but seriously... How are you gonna play basketball? A free throw game maybe but Basketball? How is the AI gonna block you? How are you gonna be able to run around your room? How are you gonna be able to turn your back? Without weight of some kind it seems like a pipe dream and at that point why not just go buy a basketball?... I mean the only thing I could possibly imagine is HORSE. You can't even dribble a "Air ball"...

Look Ricochet looks like fun... So does Wii Sports resort and I'm not getting that. Why? It will last me 20 minutes and then it's done. I am a Sony fan through and through and their Tech demos have proven things to me and been much more convincing then the Natal "Commercial" They showed at E3...

Really really think about the mechanics behind any game. Then think it has to be useful to play in EVERY household. Then consider the things they have already shown like Burnout. There is Gas and no Gas... There is no "Little bit of gas" Brake is simply "Put foot down" There is very little room for error. How are you going to use boost? Raise a finger while steering? Sounds kinda dumb to me...

Think about a baseball game. They dd it in Wii sports and it was ok I suppose. Now think about you swinging air at the screen and hit some baseball with no force or feed back while not having anything at all in your hand... Now run to first base.... How do you do this? How do you slide in? how do you "Catch" the ball if your in the out field? Apart from making it basically a Wii knock off where you Waggle your arms really fast there is no running. And making some kind of silly motion(Remember this has to be accessible to nearly everyone and grandma cant slide in her own house. Let alone lawsuits when little Johnny breaks his leg) There is no sliding. There is no "Jumping in the air" to catch the ball. You wont be holding your hand up either. You'll be holding your hand open towards the screen trying to aim where the ball is coming... At this point the neighbors downstairs will be pretty mad at you jumping all over the house(One reason why ricochet would only ever last 20 minutes at my house)... Remember these games have to be for the masses not individuals. While you may have a huge living room Mr Smiths living room may only be 20x 30 and there is no way he will be able to "Round the bases" and make it home... Now consider if there was a way to truly simulate all these things and make them fun... I would much rather be outside playing baseball. Join or start a league or team. Heck just get some friends and have a picnic with baseball... Because in truth why would I put forth all that effort when I want to relax. Thats what gaming is for me. A way to relax not jump and waggle like an idiot. If I want sports I'll go outside.

This is one example I can see. I mean really. Mechanically I can't see anyway to make a hardcore game fun with this "Controller free" gaming. While I am not saying Sony's will be miles ahead(Basically until any of them prove this is what I want I wont be buying) but I feel it has much more potential to be fun. Please give me an example of how you would make a Baseball game work with mechanics and everything so it can work for almost anyone. Because I will tell you MS wont be making a game for "A few people with a living room of X by Y and a ceiling height of Z and brightly lit and etc, etc, etc... Thats why I like the Sony controllers. Feedback, Weight and you don't need lighting... also more control. If you put 2 buttons on each of those and a thumbstick on each I can't imagine a game you couldn't simluate in someway and have it actually be somewhat relaxing...

Also I was looking at your past posts and stuff and you do seem like a good guy but really. If you can't imagine it do you really have faith that Rare is "Oh so much more creative" I mean they can code. That doesn't mean they have some kind of infinite imagination... Really. Banjo Nuts and Bolt. looked ok, Was somewhat unique for a kids game... Was it creative and unique and imaginative? Not really.... Build something and use it in a level... Wow...

@ Gaffyh

I agree 100% bro. I really am not into the motion stuff. I don't understand those who are. I have a wii and the last game I played on it was Madworld and I never even finished it... Natal or Sony motion will be gimmicks that I never use and developers will spend tons of money on only to make nothing because the casuals all prefer the wii.

I however wont be putting it on Ebay. Still got a ton of GC games I like as well as a few Wii titles I like... Some of the Virtual console games are great.

@ Hay.

Fantastic post.

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gaffyh - 47 days 22 hours ago

@1.8 - If you can't have a normal debate, and resort to cursing people out, I really don't care about your opinion. I find it funny that people by into this hype of EITHER motion controller, when we all know that the main reason behind them is to appeal to casual gamers. Natal especially is designed for casual gamers in mind rather than core gamers. All those that have owned/do own an EyeToy/PSEye know this already, and while Natal is a lot more advanced in terms of tech than either system, what use is this tech if it can only do the same stuff?

I'm not going to buy Natal, because as I have stated before, I'm going to wait until there is a hardcore game for it. In fact, I'd say the same about Sony's motion controller.

I got sucked into the Wii hype and was very disappointed, needless to say, that pos is going on ebay very soon.

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hay - 47 days 22 hours ago

I'm a bit skeptical about Natal too. As I like the idea it's upgraded EyeToy/PS3eye which was disappointing for me. I expected miracles, got gaming with flailing hands in mid air struggling to get some effects.

It can be great enhancement for normally controled games, option to move in menu, or menu driven apps. Maybe even not fast strategies when your hand for example could be a cursor.

But I fail to see 100% hardcore gaming with it, unless MS can figure out some control schemes with it that are beyond our current imagination. I can't imagine how it can be used as a controller in high action games like Halo. Maybe leaning would be translated to movement. Hard to tell.

It's a big step forward for casual market, good addon in similar way to six-axis, but I fail to see that hardcore gaming will benefit in any major way.

And...

@Projekt7tuning: I think you're a bit up your ar*e too. Going around and saying you own all systems, how cool and objective you are but can't stand typical fanboy treatment on N4G and starting throwing Fs here and there.

It's not really the way here.

People have the right to voice their opinions like you did but people also have the right to disagree or debubble you if they don't like what you're writing and don't want to write explanation of their actions.
You can't expect from others to do what you want just cause you wrote it.

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Projekt7tuning - 47 days 22 hours ago

@1.9
I appreciate you legitimate comment. Thank you Its good you know how to disagree the right way. Now, I more or less used basketball as an example for the simple fact that I was wondering how the mechanics of throwing would work. I was thinking if you could simulate that you could translate that into throwing grenades in a FPS. Now as for the BBall you most likely would still need some sort of controller in one hand for full movement. I surely dont have all the answers If I did I my self would be a game designer. I was mainly trying to provoke a conversation on how the system could be used with all of us as a collective mind, but unfortunately most people on n4g would rather bash any thing Microsoft. I still believe this could work well and in the next gen of systems work well for all platforms. thanks for your Adult like disagree. And even though we might be disagreeing I would like to give you a bubble for a well thought out response.

@1.11 You see the problem I have with that is most people dont voice reasonable opinions. They tend to spam and bash. Also I can promise you sony fanatics took my bubble not 360 fans. I have not resorted to taking any of your bubbles not from a single person on this page.

@1.14 Again I simply posed a question on its tech to start a discussion of the possibility's .

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Jinxstar - 47 days 22 hours ago

Thanks bud. You too.

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yorkie - 47 days 22 hours ago

Wow and you call other people infantile talk about throwing your teddy out the pram. Tell me why is it when people dont agree with certain things you label them fanboys', motion controls have been a major disappointment so far and Natal hasn't shown anything yet to change that, so unless it does why not stop jumping to it's defence at every opportunity and see what it actually brings to the table or do you just blindly believe it's going to revolutionise gaming because you got told it would.

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gaffyh - 47 days 22 hours ago

@1.12 - Thanks for the reply. I understand with basketball, and also i was thinking Natal would work well for a dance game e.g. DDR, but I really can't imagine playing a core title with Natal. For example shooters, I can only see on the rail shooters working. Or for hack n slash, I don't see how that would work at all.

If they come up with some way where you use the controller with the camera, then it may work well. But then it risks becoming gimmicky, well you see I am very unsure of the new tech, which is why I want to see what MS come up with before buying into the hype.

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4Sh0w - 47 days 22 hours ago

Although I don't agree with his attitude(name calling) Projekt7tuning did make a very good point, this is Natal news, he was looking for folks who have interesting ideas about Natal to comment but of course you and others who've already dismissed much of Natal's potential in the past statements are the same ones who only show up to basicly say the same things we've heard over and over again from those who's only real interest in Natal seems to be to say it wont work, or some sort variation about what Natal is NOT capable of. What kind of gamer does that? Now don't get me wrong gamers are known to be critical, disbelief is a good thing it pushes devs to deliver, gamers should not believe everything any company sells until its proven, but hopefully you can understand why showing up and being so negative on multiple Natal posts can be percieved as just someone who hates Natal not because they don't think it will work but they don't even want it to work. Maybe I'm wrong but thats all I get from the Natal detractors, I seriously haven't seen any valid criticism about why Natal will not work in games, now if you say it might not sell because of price, majority of microsofts fanbase are hardcore and might not accept this new gameplay, etc, etc then yeah, who knows but on a technical level I haven't seen WHY Natal can't do the things the detractors say it can't.

Yes, Natal could flop but I seriously doubt that "moving more than 3 feet in each direction" will be a big problem to overcome, seriously, how about while I'm sitting on my couch I step forward with my left then right feet(in a walking motion) one time and even though I've stop doing this Natal has imediately recognized this as me telling my charachter to begin walking, now I'm walking towards a house, I want to stop at the door so what do I do?, hmmm now I tap my right foot on the floor and my character stops walking, running can be accomplished very much the same way, except I obviously need to either A. increased the speed of my walking motion or B. If I begin the walking motion by taking 4 steps consective steps rather than 2, my charachter will run instead of walk, direction controlled by my head moving(looking) in different directions, so many variances can be created, its just a matter of moving/mapping those controls from a controller to Natal, its just a matter of programming, the tech is there, I have tons of ideas how Natal could work recreating many of the normal movements that are done in most games, I could see how it could work well both with and without a controller, and nothing about it has to be exhausting, and don't take this the wrong way but you aren't a dev, neither am I, but I'm sure most devs didn't get to where they are at without showing alot of imagination and creativity. Frankly your views on Natal, like most of the detractors are very, very short-sighted.

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Projekt7tuning - 47 days 21 hours ago

Now I must say good day, im off to work. Now to the people whom got mad at me be glad I was here. I gave you all something to comment about and possibly think about. Did I change anyone's minds, most likely not, but at least I can think about some of the legit comments and ponder the possibility's more.

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Nicaragua - 47 days 21 hours ago

The lag that has been shown so far on the breakout demo shows that natal isnt even suitable for a dance mat type game.

Its an advanced eye-toy, its a laggy control interface, but most of all (as with most peripheral add-ons) its a gimmick.

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4Sh0w - 47 days 21 hours ago

Nicaragua, first of all while I agree that there is some lag with Natal, however I thought it was fairly responsive, I certainly don't think it was nearly as bad as you make it out to be. Also I don't know of any piece of new tech that at the time it was launched/revealed was 100% efficient at its intended purpose, this goes for game engines and the games themselves. They all go through a refinement process, where the tech is tweaked to make it perform better, why should Natal be any different regarding lag?

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djfullshred - 47 days 20 hours ago

Projekt7tuning - I'll disagree with you...but I am not standing on a soapbox trying to speak for all gamers. I will speak to my own personal opinion.

I usually play games solo when I get a break from work & other responcibilities. I like to chill in front of my TV on the couch, and it is my way of relaxing & a stress release. I think it would be absolutely silly for me to be jumping around, acting out the game solo in front of my TV. I would only play this type of game if I had a bunch of people over for a party or somethine. I rarely have parties at my pad, and even then those events rarely end up in video game playing. I suspect there are many gamers like myself that have zero interest in the motion control movement in a b-ball or FPS game...or any other game.

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Hutch2355 - 47 days 20 hours ago

Since none of you are game designers, and none of you work at rare or any other studio making games for Natal, so how about you all wait and see. I am sure that at E3 there will be a huge display and an announcement for games. Most people on this site that are excited about this are excited for "possibilities". On the other hand, the haters, have no clue what these games will be a bout, how they will work, how many games will be used with it, if you can use a controller with it, or whatever. I personally like the idea of the "minority report" style control of my system. I know that microsoft is hoping to use it outsied of the 360.

I have a media center with all of my movies on hard drive, and I could just imagine one of these in every room that has a tv and when you walk in you say turn on, and it turns your tv on and scans you, then pulls up your music/movie playlists for that person. I think possiblities are endless and gaming is just the beginning.

I also don' think you will see natal be the end all be all for normal core games. And so what if they are going after the casual market, are casual gamers and their money not any good. Ask nintendo how good the money from them is.

So Please just wait and see and stop all the hate. Also, please stop all the "when natal hits, its game over", cuz its not. This generation is a shared generation with all three companies doing well. People act like morons are running Microsoft/sony. I think they know what they are doing. I remember the outcry for a price cut, and a few fanboys saying they don't need one. Well when it came look how great it has been for sony. Have companies made misteps? Yep, RROD, high prices, broken wand straps. Obviously some bigger than others, but give a little credit and stop thinking you all are smarter than the harvard/yale/whatever incredible schools graduates that work and run these companies, and sit back and enjoy the plethora of games that are hitting this generation and just play.

Thanks

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slayorofgods - 47 days 7 hours ago

A great piece of technology done in the wrong way, and more or less a prototype with limited games and a expensive price tag.

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TotalPS3Fanboy - 47 days ago

except the experience of the feeling you one gets from holding a controller, pressing the button, and receiving force feed back. In other word, all games.

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Cenobia - 46 days 16 hours ago

But why would you do those things? You're over-complicating one of the most simplistic elements of any 3D game...movement. You would actually play a game that had you tap your feet instead of move an analog stick? It takes microseconds to change direction with a controller. With Natal you add 10 times as much effort for a response/reaction time that's 20 times as long.

I can see you're being quite creative, but neither of you are being practical. No one will play a game like an FPS with Natal. Think about a standard Halo multiplayer game and just imagine the rotating, jumping, ducking, shooting, weapon switching, grenade throwing, sidestepping, etc that goes on. Now think of the same game sans controller with Natal. It is unrealistic to think that anything like Halo could be made with Natal, and everyone that is excited for it is expecting hardcore games.

I didn't mean to burst your bubble, but I'm just trying to be realistic. It's not that I'm hating on just Natal either. The PS3 wands looked cool to me, but if they don't have analog sticks, then the same problems are going to arise.

These controllers aren't going to break down any walls between gamers and the games, they're just going to make them more apparent.

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yorkie - 47 days 23 hours ago

It's all about balance, remember every action has a equal and opposite reaction.

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Projekt7tuning - 47 days 23 hours ago

@ 5 I agree. I have booth systems and im hoping this dose well because the next round of systems could really change the whole game foundation. I think this is great. I think people just have to feel whatever they bought has to be superior. They dont even care if it will help future generations.

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Sitdown - 47 days 22 hours ago

if the eye toy was doing this a generation ago...why did Sony feel the need to bring out a new eye toy this generation? Perhaps both Natal and the new Eye Toy will be doing stuff the original could not..

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creeping judas - 47 days 21 hours ago

I recently picked up the PS3 eye for $10 on a promotion. And as cool as it promises to be, there's nothing out there for it? The PSN games that are out there, don't work very well.

But it's the promise of things to come that made me pay for it. Hopefully NATAL lives up to it's promise. I mean if I could actually swing a real golf club to practice golf in the winter I would be happy with something like that.

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yorkie - 47 days 23 hours ago

It's a quote from Newtons laws of motion. Oh and you may want to check your spelling of EINSTEIN too, or does that sound like I created the spelling myself ???????

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butterfinger - 47 days 22 hours ago

A person of average intelligence should've heard that quote enough to know who said it. I don't think anyone assumed yorkie was trying to take credit for it. Also, try replying to his actual comment next time.

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butterfinger - 47 days 22 hours ago

would take a miracle at this point, or so it seems.

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Berserk1 - 48 days ago

correction: Rare: 'Natal Can,t Create Any Experience'

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Murderdolls - 47 days 23 hours ago

There's a comma in the word can't?

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themyk - 47 days 22 hours ago

can,t. thats funny.

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Stinger_209 - 47 days 14 hours ago

and lose weight

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Tesselation 360 - 47 days 4 hours ago

keep it coming slimes its hilarious. Slime ps3 in last place forever this generation. Fact.

Go play with ur dildo controller. Fact.

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Murderdolls - 47 days 23 hours ago

Typing fail, get romped son.

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butterfinger - 47 days 22 hours ago

I guess between Rare and Natal you really have nothing to argue with, so you just chase someone around making fun of their typos... lmao.

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BX81 - 47 days 20 hours ago

Keep hating cheese toast!

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