"Sony makes almost impossible for indie developers"

sidar - 129 days 13 hours ago

However Sony is also being lame on this part.
Noby Noby Boy? Sony would never approve such thing if they knocked on their door with it.

Its pretty much a double standard.
Same with their other example such as flow, its pretty much something you can(could?) play online as a flash game.

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TOO PAWNED - 129 days 13 hours ago

yup psn is not iphone, if you want to put garbage somewhere you can do it on iphone

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HDgamer - 129 days 10 hours ago

That's why the wii is getting shovel ware.

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ultimolu - 129 days 10 hours ago

Well, excuse Sony for having high standards and wanting quality games on their system.

Oh freaking noes.

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Strikepackage Bravo - 129 days 9 hours ago

even if they were stealing babies from nic units of hospitals boiling them and feeding them to snakes.

Making small developers jump through hoops to get their games sold does not insure quality, it just insures indi developers will have a hard time getting their games up and sold on PSN.

XBL community games are games that people like you and me, or anyone else who knows XNA, can easily put up games for sale on a world class network and get a cut of the cash. This is an excellent service MS provides, how can anyone not agree with that? Only the most diehard fanboy sees this as another thing to knock MS on. Sony should do the same.

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Johnny Rotten - 129 days 9 hours ago

^^^ most Xbox community games are of low production value and worthless but that's just my opinion. It's good to support indie devs but the amount of shovelware that's put onto the arcade makes the rare gems seems lost.

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Some_One_Plays - 129 days 9 hours ago

From my understanding you would have to pay an anual fee of $100.00 weather you're a developer or not and on top of that according to you, have to pay for the games as well?

From letting anyone to create games, how many of them are original or even worth the money?

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StanLee - 129 days 9 hours ago

Microsoft are very welcoming. They only f*@% you on the back end when money is involved.

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gaffyh - 129 days 9 hours ago

@1.5 - What do you mean you people?!!

Sony just announced a service to pay devs for their games if they are good didn't they? Anyway it's good to have some standards.

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Guitarded - 129 days 8 hours ago

Giving indie dev's a chance to practice, even on a crap game, will produce better games later. Seems to be where Microsoft is headed with XNA. It would appear that Sony are only looking to line their pockets now and Microsoft are training the next generation of dev's to line their pockets later.

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ultimolu - 129 days 7 hours ago

Yes, because the same thing doesn't happen when it comes to the other side.

This is not making excuses. Sony has always had high standards. That's why they took a huge risk with the PS3 and delivered quality game after quality game.

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evrfighter - 129 days 7 hours ago

Substitute Sony for M$ and ultimolu would be the very first poster in here crying about fairness and equality for all dev's.

quite hilarious lol

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ultimolu - 129 days 7 hours ago

Because you know so much about me.

Yeah, sure.

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Headshot81 - 129 days 6 hours ago

is not that MS caters indie devs by being slightly more forgiving, or even sony for that matter. These are companies that are based on profit. the devs who present their "profitable" idea must be approved by the company, so that both parties stand on common ground and agree that money can be made from this idea. Basically "if doesn't make cents, it doesn't make sense"

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a_squirrel - 129 days 3 hours ago

@1

Exactly :)

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wanderofys - 129 days 3 hours ago

The Path was a brilliant game and Sony is missing out on this developer.

If any developer has a right to say this, it's Tale of Tales.

I'm very shocked that Sony would feel this way about Tale of Tales, considering Sony systems are where you usually get the really unusual Atlus games.

You can't just accept anyone to make games for your system, but you should at least look at what they've done. If Sony didn't like what this company has done, I may have to reconsider my opinion that Sony was where I go when looking for more dark, unusual, and interesting video games.

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JohnnyBadfinger - 129 days 2 hours ago

Halo was first presented to Sony but rejected, and is now one of the best selling games of all-time.

Sony dont understand what quality is, and sure as hell cant see the money slapping them in the face.

But as history has shown, games that Sony rejects end up becoming console pushes on other consoles. MGS, Killzone, and Uncharted while they look good, aint pushing anyone to buying a PS3. Whereas the name 'Halo' can push a million consoles in a day.

Disagree all you want but Im right, disagreeing proves it.

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MazzingerZ - 129 days ago

Yeah, and Bill Murray could have been Anibal Lecter but he rejected the roll...

This is about an unhappy Indie developer that couldn't deliver a game of the same quality as current PSN titles, SONY is not going backwards to make a buck

I'd like to see the game that dev is talking about, release it on PC or X360 and show the world what SONY rejected

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UltimateIdiot911 - 128 days 20 hours ago

Are you high? Halo was presented to Sony?? Where did you ever get that idea?
Bungie originally made Halo for Macs. Then Microsoft saw it, bought Bungie and stole Mac's chance to become big in gaming.

I never heard of Tale of Tales till now. There has to be a line for indie devs. I don't want to have to dig my way through sacks of BS before I find the needle.

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Redempteur - 128 days 17 hours ago

AND why the hell is that a problem again ?
i have seen a lot of originals AND exclusives games on PSN .
They weren't indies games BUT those were good games .. i don't wanna see another clone of collums or space invaders EVEN with direct-x effects ...

Microsoft accepted indies games ONLY because they needed content in their store ... the only good thing that happenned was BRAID .
The others games are ...

On the PSN , games like flow, flower , wipeout , pixel junk eden are well know ..even outside of it .
And don't get me started on THE LAST GUY , or echochrome. and they were just examples ... ( patapon anyone ? )

Sony doesn't want indies games .. they have already several studios working to launch games each month ...

And it's the same reason why the wiiware is only for TRUE develloppers not "indies" .. because they don't need to add so much crap in order to have one gem each year when you can have ( and you have already ) severals studios working to make originals games ( LIT ? MYLIFE AS ..? LOST WINDS ? ect ect )

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Homicide - 128 days 13 hours ago

"Well, excuse Sony for having high standards and wanting quality games on their system."

Like Haze and Lair right?

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aaron5829 - 128 days 5 hours ago

It's 2009. Where have you been ? Still lauging that these 2 games were flops ?

Are those the only 2 games that you can b1tch about ?

Running out of ideas eh ?

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scissor_runner - 124 days 15 hours ago

Well if you guys just want big name publisher making games for you then I say good luck with that. What this means is your cell will never really get tapped and you simply will not get new talent that wants to make new game. The PS3 will be the sequel king and what you call new ip is more like mods on the PC. The same games over and over just with bigger budgets. I can't see how that is good.

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sidar - 129 days 12 hours ago

" If Sony doesn't think your game will be profitable, they won't help you out on it"
Then do explain why simple games like flow and crazy nonsensical games like noby noby boy are actually developed?

They don't seem profitable at first sight either.

Im not saying Sony should allow crap, but they aren't really giving the developers a chance. Reading the article in its original language, it just seems Sony is being a hypocrite =).

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RememberThe357 - 129 days 11 hours ago

NO, they're not. I wouldn't. If you don't like any idea your not going to support it. Period.

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Baka-akaB - 129 days 8 hours ago

@Sidar

Hum except flow sold decently if my memories aint wrong .

Anyway whatever i say will maybe sound like making excuse for sony , but when i look at an important portion of PSN's smaller offering , i often see games i woulnt be ashamed to buy on discs .

I personally dont subscribe to a trend of saying "eeehhhh it's not bad for a XBL/XNAPSN/WiiWare game , or indie PC/Flash game !" .
If it's good it's good period ... what were the initial funds and goals of the devs , isnt my concern as a customer .

Otherwise as mostly somewhat an otaku , i'd spend more time on the bazillion of doujins games available each year on pc (some even being quite awesome obviously ) , those being of far superior quality in most case than the usual indie console stuff .

That kind of forgiving attitude imo , while it hasnt really hurt home consoles so far , ruined mobile phone gaming for a long time .

So i dont mind Sony giving more interest and focus to games that looks professional , polished and commercial enough , like Wipeout HD , Siren , Trine , Battle fantasia , and digital ports like Burnout or Tekken 5 , ratchet and clank .

Of course PSN also got trash coming through . but just pick the console with the store (and the games of course) more to your liking , what XXX dev may prefer or not is way less relevant than that .

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callahan09 - 129 days 7 hours ago

It's not like "support" grows on trees. It requires resources. People, technology, money, time. They can't just give it away to whoever asks for it, they have to be discretionary about it. If they don't want to support your endeavor, then that's just the way it is. Now, I don't know why Sony wouldn't want to support some endeavors, but if they don't, they don't. If I went to them with a project I am working on right now, I wouldn't EXPECT them to support me. I'd expect to have to prove myself and my project to them before they approve support, to convince them that I'm worthwhile.

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sidar - 128 days 23 hours ago

" Hum except flow sold decently if my memories aint wrong . "

Thats not my point, who said this would have been "profitable" to sony if some indie developer stepped up to sony's door and showed a game like flower?

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PieterM - 129 days 11 hours ago

I have to say that they (in case you haven't read the source) mention flower and noby noby boy as exceptions because they are backed by sony themselves (thatgamecompany from Flower has their office in the Sony Santa Monica studios) and Noby Noby Boy is backed by Namco, which makes it a whole lot easier to get approval for. (it's all in the article though)

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kaveti6616 - 129 days 11 hours ago

Microsoft's community games are mostly garbage. There are a few decent ones among the bunch, but MS should think about either closing down that section completely or getting rid of all the crap. MS provides a lot of choice, but if the choice is mostly crap then it doesn't belong there.

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sidar - 129 days 11 hours ago

@Pieter,
Don't you think that makes matters worse?
I mean sure they don't want indie developers to make "crap" yet they allow a big company do it.

And honestly there is allot of trash on all 3 consoles when it comes to downloadable games, i wonder how the hell those ever got approved.

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RememberThe357 - 129 days 11 hours ago

"I mean sure they don't want indie developers to make "crap" yet they allow a big company do it."

When a "big company" wants to put a game on the PS3 they are financing it with their own money, not Sony's. Sony is telling indi devs that they with cove half of the dev costs if they keep their game exclusive to the PSN. They don't want to pay half the development costs for a crappy idea. So, of course they're going to filter out the ideas that they don't think will work. You can't finance every ones "great idea".

"And honestly there is allot of trash on all 3 consoles when it comes to downloadable games, i wonder how the hell those ever got approved."

That must give you a good idea of how crappy their idea was.

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Baka-akaB - 129 days 7 hours ago

@sidar

geez you sure gun hard at flower ?

Anyway like RememberThe357 said , if backed up , it's because either someone found those ideas worth it unlike some other competiting indies , or thought it would be worth their while to have it in a catalog , even without good sales .

Like nobi nobi boy . it's author got somewhat of a cult following , so whatever he does on your console is probably good advertising , and maybe , maybe even potential good sales for the project .

It can't be argued either that Nobi nobi boy isnt unique (though indeed crap imo) , and wouldnt be one of those artsy project one feels good to have in his portfolio of titles ... unlike some project of the same caliber by a noname .

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sidar - 128 days 23 hours ago

Baka,
My point is that there is allot of crap on Sony/Ms/Nintendo's downloadable service...
Most of them are sure funded by the big ones themselves. However even you know that if some indie developer tried to push such project at either one of them they would simple be ignored.

And i have nothing against Flower.

No indie would have gotten approval if they showed noby noby boy. LOL

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Baka-akaB - 128 days 17 hours ago

But , no offense , how is that a point ?
everyone obviously get trash . To some of us Sony's stance at least ensure a level of quality amidst the trash .
I doubt any dev would bother putting up game as huge in size , and a Wipeout HD or Siren , if what was the driving force of the store , was small indie crap .
If they entirely dominated PSN , what would be the point of developping big and costly PSN games ? why not just go hi rez 2d shooters , and indie stuff , then ?
And at most we would only have the occasional Braid level good indie game .

Personally i want more than that

Aslo about nobi nobi boy , you missed my point , even if it was garbage like you said , it's from a name of the industry , a well respected one .
It doesnt matter if it sells , it's good PR to have an artsy product from the Katamari creator , and shows you actually helps unique and creative initiatives .
The game was approved because it's from him , and that's more than enough for a reason.

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sidar - 128 days 17 hours ago

While I acknowledge its just a bizz, it is still a "point" where Sony is just having double standards.
It doesn't matter if its from a bigger company, you still get "trash" on your console. PR or not, not to say this is a fair bizz, it just seems nonsensical towards the indie developers.

"f they entirely dominated PSN , what would be the point of developping big and costly PSN games ? why not just go hi rez 2d shooters , and indie stuff , then ? And at most we would only have the occasional Braid level good indie game . "

Who ever said it should be the one or the other? Or that it should be full of simple projects? I'm not even arguing that.

Take a look at pixeljunk, you can't tell me thats a product made of " big and costly" resources. Yet its there and you could still play a game like that for free on the internet.

I don't have anything against Sony, i bet all 3 companies do it.
Its just the double standards that screw these indie developers.

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GiantEnemyCrab - 129 days 10 hours ago

There are plenty of unique non-rehash arcade games on XBL.

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zlatko - 129 days 4 hours ago

@ Giant

Like Braid and Braid and Braid? Seriously... the only thing I know I've gotten off of Xbox Live Arcade that I couldn't elsewhere at the time was Braid. Which of course is AMAZING, but others that have been released after are not up my alley for a lot of fun. I didn't like Castle Crashers and the Dishwasher was also meh.

As for this article who cares? I doubt Sony would willingly turn away people with great games or game ideas... that's not how they make money. If Sony rejects you it's because your game sucks...deal with it and make something better.

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mastiffchild - 128 days 18 hours ago

Or, at least, games they don't think will fit with PSN OR do very well on it for them or the devs. Maube some ideas are just too avant garde? IDK for sure but the bottom line here seems to be that these guys are miffed that at some point along the Sony approval chain (which may well be too long and cumbersome, again, we don't know but that COULD be these guys only real salient point)they got told "no deal".

Hey, if they go elsewhere and make a mint, win awards and go on to great things then that's awesome but it doesn't alter the fact that Sony have every right to refuse funding for whatever reason they see fit-it's the same as pitching on "Dragon's Den" Sony aren't an indie dev charity that grants start up loans are they?

Thing is I'm sure plenty of other devs get turned down elsewhere with their ideas but we don't see them bleating like spoilt kids on N4G, do we? Fair enough Sony might be wrong and the game could be killer stuff but wouldn't the grown up thing be to go and succeed somewhere else rather than give everyone "yah boo suxxx!" on t'interwebz?

Like independent music, cinema and literature the indie games scene is always going to be hit and miss esp for big business. How many fantastic bands wouldn't have got off the ground waiting for the EMIs of this world to catch on to what's new? The fact that up til now the scene has been completely restricted to those in the know on the PC means that Wiiware, PSN and XBLA are fantastic hoovers for the talent out there-but, again, Sony are pretty much testing the waters , for themselves, as far as this goes. So getting knocked back shouldn't make anyone bitter, should it?

Even the stiff that makes it to PSN isn't secured success but, imo, Sony are trying to increase those chances by attempting to weed out as much chaff as they can. XBLA has a more scattershot approach(which could mean more hits or just, y'know, more!)and who's to say when both are in their infancy, which is best?

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cayal - 129 days 7 hours ago

Shut up fanboy.

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Wiimaniac - 129 days 10 hours ago

That's all I have to say.

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commodore64 - 129 days 4 hours ago

Yeah I agree and it's kind of laughable.

It seems that there is a never-ending supply of ps3 users who are paid to damage control, spin the facts, clean up the Sony mess and generally behave like Sony's PR dept.

I hope they get paid well...

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IcyJoker187 - 129 days 7 hours ago

at least you have the last part of your name right

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Guitarded - 129 days 7 hours ago

What no real reply? Mocking my screen name. Is that the best you got? You suck as hard as Sony.

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NegativeCreep427 - 129 days 5 hours ago

I will fill in for IcyJoker187 here.

All you have to do is take off your "Anything Sony does is evil and kills cute little puppies" goggles and view Everyday Shooter, Flow, and Flower to immediately disapprove any and all unsubstatiated claims made by this article.

How about that? Is that enough to own yourself?

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