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Jaffe: Metal Gear Solid Story "Ham Fisted"

The twisted storyline of Metal Gear Solid might be beloved of many gamers, but not so much for outspoken God of War creator, David Jaffe. While he has professed his love for the series, he called the story "ham-fisted", going on to call the plot of Gears of War 2 (which he calls his game of 2008) a rip-off of Aliens.

Speaking in an LAGTV interview about why video game movies are generally pretty turd, Jaffe said, "Metal Gear's one of my favourite series of all time, but if you really just strip the gameplay and the graphics out of Metal Gear and you just look at it as a story, it's a really ham-fisted, kind of cheesy story.

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[via news.spong.com]

Nineball2112 - contributor
Published: 265 days 23 hours ago | Video | PlayStation 3 | PlayStation 2 | Gaming | Dev News

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butbutbuttehcell - 265 days 23 hours ago

1 -

Jaffe when was the last great game you did? 4 years ago? So your input is kinda moot. Have you even made several good games? No? Just the one?! So for the last four years you've done nothing great so what makes you think you have the right to criticize other games? You're opinion is about a valuable as your face is handsome.

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Pennywise - 265 days 23 hours ago

1.1 -

Well said. Beginning of this gen, Jaffe talking sparked excitement... but this far into the game, I think its getting old.

Make a game and shut up... and lose the hat, Gilligan.

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TheHater - 265 days 23 hours ago

1.2 -

I am guessing you didn't watching the video base on your idiotic reaction. Watch the video, and you will notice how this "article" spin the things he said out of context.

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MasFlowKiller - 265 days 23 hours ago

1.3 - i usually agree with Jaffe

but most story in games are really really dumb down, its like there trying to feed it to us with a spoon, or its non existence

I know the Metal Gear Games are hard to follow, but if u played every game then it pays off, it actually feel rewording, plus super fun gameplay doesnt hurt the experience

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TheTwelve - 265 days 22 hours ago

1.4 -

The MGS storyline is like Code Geass...really good, but you have to swallow some things which are rather hard to believe.

12

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LiQuiFiedArt - 265 days 22 hours ago

1.5 - If you acutally watched teh entire thing...

This is exactly what is wrong with the internet. Your taking what he said out of context.

He was talking about how IN COMPARISON to a movie, once you strip modern day games of their gameplay they are all very derivative from existing movie plots.

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Muggles - 265 days 22 hours ago

1.6 - Almost as bad as Dave Perry

Not much from him either since Earthworm Jim almost 20 years ago and he still blesses us with his opinions all the time.

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LeonSKennedy4Life - 265 days 22 hours ago

1.7 - No...

He has made 5 really good games...

- Twisted Metal
- Twisted Metal 2
- God of War
- War of the Monsters
- Calling All Cars!

Noob.

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SevWolf - 265 days 21 hours ago

1.8 - @ liquifiedart

You beat me to that post, I was just about to write it. I enjoy Jaffe's blog he actually has very interesting point, and like liquified said you have to watch the whole thing, I partially disagree the MGS story is amazing to me, but its the man's opinion and he's entitled to it, its just st*pid as* morons who take his words and turn them to headlines and lies, actually if you watched the videos he talks about how many journalist like kotaku have done that to him and many others

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-PINNER- - 265 days 21 hours ago

1.9 -

don't forget twisted metal black

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xabmol - 265 days 21 hours ago

1.10 - He made War of the Monsters?

I didn't know that. WotM was an awesome game. He also made Mickey Mania on the SNES, another awesome game. But why does this guy talk so much?

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Sharpshell - 265 days 21 hours ago

1.11 - I feel like

Jaffe does a great job creating a game series concept,but doesn't make what will eventualy be the amsterpeice of the series, I am specifically thinking of Twisted Metal Black... heres hoping that God of War 3 will pull off the same thing

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Xiphos - 265 days 21 hours ago

1.12 -

Jaffe's words being spun into oblivion again. Good job internet, keep up the ace journalism.

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xionpunk - 265 days 20 hours ago

1.13 -

Well c'mon, he's got a point. I'm a HUGE Metal Gear fan and I love the story but it has some extremely cheesy elements. I love those elements in the context of Metal Gear and the world Kojima created. Do I want them in movie form ? No way. The story needs to be scaled back and more focused if it is to be a good movie. But as a game story I wouldn't change a thing.

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jadenkorri - 265 days 18 hours ago

1.14 - careful guys

don't mentioned metal gear movie...uwe boll might get an idea...

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JoySticksFTW - 265 days 17 hours ago

1.15 - I love how he doesn't disagree with the Twisted Metal PS3 talk...

He actually says Good Guess!

Heck Yeah! :D

EDIT:

uuhh, erm, uh... did anyone happen to watch the interview all the way through? And see the last few minutes of the third section?

Uncomfortable.... D8

Now I like GoW and TM as much as the next guy, but Dave got his panties in a bunch those last few minutes. jeez...

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sinncross - 265 days 23 hours ago

2 -

I personally don't like the direction the story of MGS took with 4.

It went from logical/ supernatural to just being logical. Everything had to have an explanation for no reason, and most of the time is was a stupid revelation.
Especially the thing with Vamp... the truth behind him still doesn't help explain all the things he did in MGS2.

I also thought the story was rushed... had a lot of high moments though.

I still find MGS and MGS2 to be the best in the series.

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callahan09 - 265 days 23 hours ago

2.1 -

Are you forgetting that Metal Gear Solid 2 was actually the game that took it to the extremes of logic? Everything was logical & scientific, even what seemed at first to be supernatural. It was a big speech at the end where Ocelot was talking about Fortune's inability to die and what that meant, and how it was all just this scientific, natural thing, and it actually had nothing at all to do with her being supernaturally "forunate." The only supernatural loose ends left at the end of MGS2 were Vamp's nature and Liquid's arm taking over Ocelot: both of which were explained in the story of MGS4, tying together the plot threads that started in Sons of Liberty with everything being explainable, nothing supernatural. That's part of the brilliance of the fourth game, in my opinion, is that it takes the themes of the series and explains them, leaving no stone unturned while being faithful to everything that came before it. It was the ultimate conclusion with the perfect dose of fan service.

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JoySticksFTW - 265 days 17 hours ago

2.2 - @ sinncross You want supernatural? Look up MGS3

The Sorrow
The Pain
Ultra old The End
Volgin's lightning

I don't remember any logical explanation for them. Anyone?

I don't know if you played MGS3, but you owe it to yourself as a MGS fan. You just might have a new favorite ;P

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Tiberium - 265 days 15 hours ago

2.3 -

Mgs3 had the best story in my opinion. mgs2 was so insanely melodramatic. And otacon was the biggest crybaby of them all. And wtf was up with raiden running around naked.

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cayal - 265 days 13 hours ago

2.4 -

umm...his clothes were stolen?

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Fishy Fingers - 265 days 22 hours ago

3 -

There's a whole lot more to this interview than the small piece the contributor choose to use as the headline.

Watch it. I found it to be a good interview, regarding the MGS business, each to their own.

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Nineball2112 - 265 days 22 hours ago

3.1 -

With all due respect Fishy, I just didn't feel like the title "My LAGTV.COM interview..." was all that great.

I saw the article at Spong.com (the via link) and that was their title, so I decided to go with that one. Maybe I shouldn't have... but it's a better title then "My interview", imo.

And I actually really like the MGS storyline/series. Yeah, it's a bit "out there", but that's what video games are for. To tell us "fantastical" stories and to make us suspend belief for a while.

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Fishy Fingers - 265 days 22 hours ago

3.2 -

I'm not suggesting there is something underhand about the headline, and like you said, the source title doesnt really give you much to go on. It was a good angle to take on your part. I'm just saying this is a 30 minute interview and we'll get 100 comments focused on 20 seconds of it. When there is a lot of interesting stuff in there.

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Nineball2112 - 265 days 22 hours ago

3.3 -

I agree with you 100% Fishy. Most attention spans are very short, which is a shame.

+ bubbles for the comments.

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no-spin - 265 days 21 hours ago

3.4 - @nineball

i saw the 3 videos, and of all the things he said you choose that headline?
You are an example of the problem with journalism, totally misleading title. trying to imitate the HHG?

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Nineball2112 - 265 days 20 hours ago

3.5 - ^^^

Right, because I'm a journalist. And by submitting stories on N4G, I contribute to "journalism" and journalistic integrity. /sarc

C'mon, lighten up, Francis. The title is focusing on one aspect of the videos, but it's not the end of the world.

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caffman - 265 days 22 hours ago

4 - Now the droids are turning on Jaffe?

for shame

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Statix - 265 days 21 hours ago

4.1 -

People shouldn't be kneejerk-reacting to Jaffe's comments and turning on him on a dime, just because he has an opinion that could remotely be taken as negative towards a game from a Playstation franchise. After all, he brought us a couple of the greatest games to ever arrive for the Playstation brand, so he has some credibility. The man's definitely entitled to his own opinion.

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Blink_44 - 265 days 22 hours ago

5 -

Jaffe is pretty annoying.

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LeonSKennedy4Life - 265 days 21 hours ago

5.1 - listen...

He's a normal human being...just like you and me. He just has a lot more talent than us.

:)

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Blink_44 - 265 days 21 hours ago

5.2 -

I wouldnt call him normal

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edgeofblade - 265 days 22 hours ago

6 -

Ham-fisted? Convoluted, over-dramatic, impossibly-contrived, self-referential... and now ham-fisted? Someone woke up on the wrong side of the pile of cash this morning.

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I love video games - 265 days 22 hours ago

7 -

crazy, i think the story is great, it would be good for a movie, book, comic, and in my opinion the best story in video games

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rbanke - 265 days 22 hours ago

8 -

This is what he pointed out EXACTLY. The so-called 'game journalists' take something people say completly out of context and/or totally ignore certain aspects of what was said just to come up with something sensational.

He said he LOVES the entire MGS world and snake's story perhaps more than any other video game character's, and that even one of the great stories of video games would come across cheesy if the same storyline was used in a movie. He was simply explaining that he doesnt think game story's as a whole (mostly) are up to par with movie stories.

And as much as I love MGS you can't honestly look at it and say this is a serious story (there are some 'hidden messages' in the story but thats not what we are talking about). It's fun and cheesy (as are most games stories), that doesnt mean bad.

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Socomer 1979 - 265 days 22 hours ago

9 - why?

mgs4 is political.
it has its own mythology.
I guess it competes with Greek gods mythology because mgs has its own database which is like a encyclopedia of mgs.
the only beef is david Jaffe didnt make up Greek mythology & Kojima actually created his story from scratch.
in fighting? Gotta love the rise to the top.

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i_like_ff7 - 265 days 22 hours ago

10 -

Lol people getting made at Jaffe. Watch the whole interview. Jesus christ....

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Unicron - 265 days 22 hours ago

11 -

Please watch the vid and understand the context of what he is saying. Don't listen to the poorly written N4G summary.

And this is coming from a HUGE MGS fan.

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Socomer 1979 - 265 days 22 hours ago

12 - sorry!

I forget that journalist like to try and twist around the words spoken especially out of jaffes mouth.
I should have known better.
Sorry jaffe!

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sinncross - 265 days 21 hours ago

13 - @ 2.1

MGS2 was the perfect synthesis of logic and the supernatural.
Liquid taking over Ocelot's arm, Vamp and even Fortune at the very end made for intriguing set pieces to be utilized.

All three accumulate to nothing.

Liquid being in control of Ocelot was the perfect combination of nanomachines with genetics, 2 major themes prevailing in the MGS series. The explanation they finally give was stupid and pointless and actually served to make the Patriots less of a threat. You're telling me they have no idea what one of their own operatives were up to?

And Vamp was just the easy way out. The explanation in MGS4 doesn't aid in how Vamp could run along water, up walls and swim in de-oxygenated water. It also ruins some of the symbolism revolving Vamp in MGS2.

I'm not saying that there is anything wrong in you liking the explanations given in MGS4, but i honestly feel that Kojima one of the best developers in gaming today, has dumbed down himself to mere commercialism. MGS4 lacks the suspense of MGS, the intelligence of MGS2: it's just far too simple, far too aimed at the mass audience instead of his audience.

MGS4 is an awesome game, don't get me wrong, but it pales in comparison to Kojima's older work imo.

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Unicron - 265 days 20 hours ago

13.1 -

SPOILERS

You realize Liquid is still basically nanos right? Ocelot used nanotherapy, hypnotherapy, and drugs to literally create the mind of Liquid in his own head. On an information/digital level, Ocelot became everything Liquid was.

Also, this was explained in MGS4... Zero decided to pass control on to the AI that you spoke with at the end of MGS2 instead of another group of people. Ocelot used the design of the AI against itself. The AI runs on predictable patterns. By making Liquid the "threat" again, he was able to push the AI into a response he could control, thus using Snake as a tool against them. The Patriots had become a system once Zero became too old, and any human control had long since vanished. (Check out Sky Captain, same thing happened with Totemkopf, pretty awesome).

This is also very cleverly a play on the MGS series conventions and the conventions of gaming sequels themselves. Kojima took recurring elements of the series (Snake being a tool, getting a support team) and actually turned it into a plot device. I think that's pretty awesome and rather subtle, since most people don't even notice it.

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14 Spydiggity | 265 days 21 hours ago - User only got 1 bubble - Show

15 donnie080208 | 265 days 21 hours ago - deleted by mod -

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iHEARTboobs - 265 days 21 hours ago

16 -

Jaffe,

I'm waiting on Twisted Metal!

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nothere413 - 265 days 21 hours ago

17 - I'm sick of Jaffe...

He's gotten a big head because of all of his famous games and now all he does is sit around criticizing all the other games out there. MGS2 > all of Jaffe's games and he knows it.

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TheRealSpy - 265 days 18 hours ago

17.1 -

did you actually watch the interview?

The title of this article takes what he said completely out of context.

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Kurylo3d - 265 days 21 hours ago

18 -

actually 4 did explain that vamp stuff. If u notice the female troopers u fight in 4 can cling to walls with those boots they wear. if u notice in 4 vamp wheres those same boots... him running up walls and on water... well theres your explanation.

I mean get over it kojima turned away from supernatual cause supernatural isnt REAL. You may want to beleive it is, but no theres no such thing as vampires. It leaves some room for unexplainable supernatural stuff, but it keeps that stuff in its own realm. Thats the stuff that doesnt matter. The stuff he left in is stuff that can be explained technologically and has been researched. Even ghosts have been researched and have some technological bearing in their existance. Even telepathy can have a hand in science. But no ... not vampires... and no ... not lady luck. That was technology

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Mad_Rhetoric - 265 days 21 hours ago

19 - Jaffe is such a jackass, GOW is just a ripoff of greek mythology

the irony of this fat POS

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Kurylo3d - 265 days 21 hours ago

19.1 -

Hey he may have not made greek mythology, but he made it his own. Some of the greatest stories of all time come from greek mythology and the bible. The most hard core of heros and villains , and struggles, are in them. The man did his thing with god of war and i applaud him for it.

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YogiBear - 265 days 14 hours ago

19.2 - @Mad_Rhetoric

Every story ever told is ripped off from greeks. They invented theater tough guy.

By the way, Jack Nicholson was better.

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DavidMacDougall - 265 days 23 hours ago

1 -

He says..

"If you remove all the action and just leave the story from all the games its hamfisted and cheesy"

...which can be said for any game

LMFAO at the end he just goes for that idiot

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BGDad - 265 days 22 hours ago

2 - Dude whats with the hat?

I can maybe understand if you were fishing or even outside but I think you have gone to far.

As far as stories in games in general they are all horrible. They suck, if you took away the action from any game and just left the story Im not sure even kids would sit through it.

I skipped the cut scenes, and just played the game and loved it. But then again I do that in most games. One game i did not however was god of war 1 and 2. Go figure.

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Pennywise - 265 days 22 hours ago

2.1 -

Just sit right back and you'll hear a tale,
A tale of a fateful trip
That started from this tropic port
Aboard this tiny ship.

The mate was a mighty sailing man,
The skipper brave and sure.
Five passengers set sail that day
For a three hour tour, a three hour tour.

The weather started getting rough,
The tiny ship was tossed,
If not for the courage of the fearless crew
The minnow would be lost, the minnow would be lost.

The ship set ground on the shore of this uncharted desert isle
With Gilligan
The Skipper too,
The millionaire and his wife,
The movie star
The professor and Mary Ann,
Here on Gilligans Isle.

So this is the talel of the castways,
They're here for a long, long time,
They'll have to make the best of things,
It's an uphill climb.

The first mate and the Skipper too,
Will do their very best,
To make the others comfortable,
In the tropic island nest.

No phone, no lights no motor cars,
Not a single luxury,
Like Robinson Crusoe,
As primative as can be.

So join us here each week my freinds,
You're sure to get a smile,
From seven stranded castways,
Here on "Gilligan's Isle."

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hdesroses - 265 days 22 hours ago

3 - That David Jaffe guy

has only made one good game and now he thinks his all that.

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LeonSKennedy4Life - 265 days 22 hours ago

3.1 - wait...

He has made:

- Twisted Metal
- Twisted Metal 2
- God of War
- War of the Monsters
- Calling All Cars!

He can say anything he freakin' wants.

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rbanke - 265 days 21 hours ago

3.2 -

Actually, his blog is just him being some guy who wants to share his opinion. Interviews are because someone wants to hear his opinion. How exactly does that make him think 'hes all that'? He never has stated 'I am a god of game creation, you must bow to me.', On the contrary, he often self deprecates while stating his opinion.

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Wiimaniac - 265 days 21 hours ago

3.3 -

the problem is that the good game he made wasn't just simply a good game but a defining one. He created one if not the most popular franchise that Sony have right now.

GOD was the first(and still the only) hack & slash game ever with a compelling story, terrific art and more than just mindless button mashing thanks to its puzzles oriented progression and QTE.

I think Jaffe has the right to even call your mom a whore.

Even I, a non follower of the franchise can acknowledge all this but at the end I prefer Ninja Gaiden to all of this just because of the incredibly deep battle system and non stop action even if it has a cheezy story and bad camera angles.

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JuJuRMJ - 265 days 21 hours ago

4 -

I respect what the man has to say, he's a man who enjoys games not to mention created some truly classics and I cannot wait what to see and play any new titles that jaffe is working on.

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talltony - 265 days 20 hours ago

5 - lol

look at the way he gets mad at the host....lmao!

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