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Video Game Warzone #66: Valve Versus The PS3

Torrence Davis of The Bitbag writes,
BFBC2 stuff
We talk more about Battlefield Bad Company 2

Valve statements about PS3 community
Was Valve wrong to dismiss the PS3? HHG and Torrence debate why they don't like the platform and why it's not economical for them to get into PS3 development right now.

Was Halo 3 rushed? Are the graphics booty? Torrence debates against the whole staff in favor of Halo 3's graphics.

Forza 3
Find out why we've been having so much fun with it.

Dirtybirdphoenix criticizes HHG's show, Game Review Battles and it starts a huge fight between the two.

Disclaimer: The anti-gay views and terms that were presented on the show are not shared by the Bitbag staff.

Music:

Bobby Blue Bland
Dreamer
"Aint No Love In The Heart Of The City"

Listen to the PodCast >>

thebitbag.com

DarK-SilV - contributor
Published: 45 days 18 hours ago | Podcast | PlayStation 3 | Xbox 360 | Wii | PC

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komp - 45 days 21 hours ago

1 -

The thing witha Valve is that eventually the pressure builds up inside until the top gets blown off and the inner goodness is released.

There must be one big plug in the top of this container! ;)

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Zedux - 45 days 18 hours ago

1.1 -

I wouldn't call it versus! Who is Valve compared to Sony? Valve is just a MS fanboy who can't evolve and compete with great studios!

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Bloodraid - 45 days 17 hours ago

1.2 -

I didn't understand how 'developer wars' relate to 'developer insulting an entire community'..?

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gaffyh - 45 days 17 hours ago

1.3 -

"Was Halo 3 rushed? Are the graphics booty? Torrence debates against the whole staff in favor of Halo 3's graphics. "

Shows how blind people seem to be getting. Halo 3 had average graphics, PS3 exclusives with the same amount of development time (OR even less) have better graphics e.g. Uncharted 1. MS rushed it, that's a fact, and that's why Bungie separated from them.

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velcry - 45 days 17 hours ago

1.4 - I sympathize with some of the individuals in Valve

Consider this - not everyone working there is so blind as to the PS3's role in the gaming industry.

Yet, because of the general stance taken by Valve as a company, it is unlikely that anyone with a differing opinion there dares to speak up.

It would really suck if I worked at an office where everyone used Macs, loved Macs, refused to listen to why Windows might be good, and I'm the only guy trying to hide my Windows-laptop under the table whenever someone else walks by.

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HolyOrangeCows - 45 days 17 hours ago

1.5 - The problem is that they're trying to...

....hide the fact that the ever expanding PS3 intimidates what is considered to be such a supreme developer.

They didn't stop at ''It's difficult to develop for'' because they had to prove themselves.

Their ''points'' about community don't really add up.
Things like the chat options in fact SCRAMBLE teamwork.
And lack of cross invites on PSN are a minor inconvenience.
And these minor inconveniences are NO WHERE NEAR BEING WORTH LOSING OUT ON 24 MILLION POTENTIAL CUSTOMERS.

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Action Bastard - 45 days 17 hours ago

1.6 - @ HolyOrangeCows

It should read:"...27 MILLION POTENTIAL CUSTOMERS." ;)

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sikbeta - 45 days 15 hours ago

1.7 -

"I didn't understand how 'developer wars' relate to 'developer insulting an entire community'..?"

This is the real problem, this time they not insulted PS3 or Sony Brands, they insult the community, "head and shoulder ahead" WTF is that suppose to mean, they evolve or something lol, knowing the xbox community has a big percentage of whiny and big mouthed kids XP

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Lifendz - 45 days 12 hours ago

1.8 - Same old same old

Torrence says he doesn't care about people dissing MS, yet he goes on another podcast to defend MS after the hosts of that show were talking crap about MS. Hypocrite? I think so.

This is the only show that goes on at length about party chat. I think these guys want that so bad on PS3 so they don't have to pay that Live fee anymore.

And if Valve doesn't want to learn how to program for the PS3, fine. But are the shots at the PS3 community really warranted? And not for nothing, but Valve games aren't exactly graphical masterpieces. In fact, most of their games look dated. So it's not like the PS3 can't do those games. They just don't want to learn how to do it.

Guess the Warzone hasn't changed after all. PS3 bashers are supported, PS3 fanboys talked about all the time while ignoring 360 fanboys, and sales talk so long as it's positive 360 or negative Sony sales talk.

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The Lazy One - 45 days 9 hours ago

1.9 - 2 things

1. Have you guys considered having an audio guy to cut out ambient noise/volume level/cut out unrelated parts of your podcast? It would up the quality a lot and probably get ur podcasts to a more listenable time period.

2. Have you guys thought of getting someone to moderate your discussion? Just having one impartial dude just to organize your conversations would be great. There's a lot of times where 3 people will be talking and you cant hear anything anyone is saying.

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Sarcasm - 45 days 20 hours ago

2 -

Approved for a funny ass intro song.

:)

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tripewire - 45 days 20 hours ago

3 -

The following makes me feel a little better about Valve:
-Fire up UC2
-Start new game.
-Go to rewards, select donut drake.
-Drop from train.
-Drop from train.
-Drop from train.
-Drop from train.
-Drop from train.

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ghostface - 45 days 19 hours ago

4 -

I think Torrence still feels butt hurt about the hole battlefield bad company thing.

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Mista T - 45 days 17 hours ago

4.1 -

why did my comment go as a reply???? missed up posting on n4g

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OOG FunK - 45 days 16 hours ago

4.2 -

you obviously missds the fact that he played the game already across live at the EA event and the fact he did a what 15 min video interview with one of the developers? Definitely bad wording tho... could have been said better so people wouldn't have assumed it was a knock at ps3 er something since PC also has the beta test and technically all games have beta tests... just not all are open.

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mastiffchild - 45 days 14 hours ago

4.3 -

Nista T-I don't think many PS3 gamers would moan if Valve were as reasonable about why they only want to work on PC and 360-I think everyone accepts their right to do what they want but not their silly outcursts surrounding it. Why diss everyone on PSN? Why , if he and his com[pany had little to no intention of working on PS3 did Gabe start slagging it in the first place? I'm, sure the way ND have made it sing and Gearbox, Vioware and even iD doing well on it all make him feel a little silly for saying it too and he maybe should have thought a little more before opening that well used burger mashing device he calls a mouth, no?

Whatever, Chet was unprofessional, the derisory lauchter at the prospect of L4D PS3 was amatuerish too and so are all of Gabe's pointless comments. No other developer that makes exclusives acts in this way and noone would go on about Valve if they'd stop but the fact is they keep bringing it on themselves(for whatever twisted reasoning they share over there)-maybe they don't want to dev for PS3 as it takes tham out of their comfort zone, maybe they don't feel they have the team or resources to do it but the things they give as reasons don't add up and with Gabe's heavy MS past it's always going to look a little dodgy. Why they can't ihnore PS3 and shut up is beyond me unless there's a lot of EA pressure to make games for the 27million PS3 gamers-if that's the vase then, maybe, thery should moan at EA rather than knocking PS3 and it's gamers, who to be fair haven't ever been tthe ones starting all this rubbish and they wouldn't have been bothered even if they'd just act like, say, Ted Prive does when asked about his Sony only relationship all would be fotgotten real quick.

I don't know for sure WHY they do it but it's a fact thjat it's Valve and their emplotees making ALL the running in these wee flame wars they enjoy starting. It's just sad, imo.

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Mista T - 45 days 17 hours ago

4.4 -

it's a business so aren't they shooting themselves in the foot for not going on PS3, community is a lame excuse for not doing so, I'm guessing there's some money under the table between MS and valve

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5 mikemadden | 45 days 17 hours ago - deleted by mod -

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DamonTheMoney - 45 days 17 hours ago

6 - Directed to HipHopGamer

The only thing I’ve learned from this podcast is that HipHopGamer is homophobic.

HipHopGamer, you need to become more tolerable of people’s lifestyle choices in this world. It’s fine to me if you want to believe that people will go to hell for being homosexual, by all means believe that in your personal time, but don’t go evangelising and gay-bashing on a public podcast like this. I myself am not gay, but I just lost a lot of respect for you.

All you’re going to do by saying things like that is make people unhappy and make them lose respect for you. Besides, isn’t the Fourth Commandment “You shall love your neighbour as yourself”?. Judgement is reserved only for God alone, at least that’s what you should believe if you’ve ever been to Church. You know, the whole “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?” theme.
I’ve read and studied some of the Bible, and it’s easy for anybody to decipher that basically the whole *point* that it’s trying to get across is that man can be forgiven for his sins if he accepts God/Jesus. So just as you can be forgiven for fornication, a homosexual can be forgiven for their “sins”.

I find it especially amusing that people who actually believe in the Bible can’t see all that. But I suppose it’s all open to interpretation.

Also, laying into somebody if they make a pass at you? Come on man, that’s just pathetic, you should be ashamed of yourself for saying or even thinking something like that.

Also, I’d just like to ask you NOT to use that homophobic slur, especially on the Warzone. It’s a hateful term, that’s on par with the N-word. How would you feel if white people were always walking around saying the N-Word in front of you. I’m sure that the F-word that you’ve been using is just as (if not more) hurtful for a gay person to hear.

Bottom line, just don’t pull sh*t like this on the Warzone, or anywhere else for that matter. If nothing else, you’ll just lose viewers.

Just for clarity, I don’t believe in any God or Deity myself.

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Grandreaper9999 - 45 days 15 hours ago

6.1 -

Funny, I read a comment just like that one on the Bitbag site, replying to this exact article there.

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DamonTheMoney - 45 days 14 hours ago

6.2 - -_-

Yeah, that was me there too. I thought if I posted it both here and on the Bitbag there'd be more people who read it. And hopefully HipHopGamer would read it and take it to heart, and hopefully regret what he's said.

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madjedi - 45 days 12 hours ago

6.3 -

@6

I find it hilarious you rush to condemn a podcast that has some anti-homophobics rants and yet a guy that disagrees with you never insulted you is attack by you. And you deem it nesscary to insult him and question his age and intelligence, just because he has a opinion that is the opposite of yours.

I share a similar opinion, was the anti-gay remarks uncalled for and unesscary, yes but so was your tearing apart the guy with a opinion counter to your own.

So anti-gay talk is a forbidden, hurtful and wrong, but being a asshole on moral high ground because of a difference of opinion is perfectly acceptable.

It might be helpful to realise that just because a person has a different opinion to yours doesn't automatically make you right and them wrong regardless of the topic.

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DamonTheMoney - 45 days 11 hours ago

6.4 - @ 6.3

We're not talking about a difference in opinion for which console is the best, or what game looks better. This is about people's feelings, and that they shouldn't have to be subjected to such harsh and hateful language. It's basic human rights, there's not really much opinion to be had. You can disagree, but it's in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, article 2 & 18 illustrate that perfectly.

I'm sorry, but I can't just understand the mind of somebody who says that people are "too sensitive these days". People who don't respect others and don't treat them with respect deserve to be called out on it and taught a lesson. Because if they can say things like that, they obviously haven't been subjected to such treatment.

Well I guess I'm not going to change anybody's opinon here, I just want everyone to treat each other well, with respect and good nature. I guess that's impossible with the internet sadly. I fu*king hate people, lol.

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madjedi - 45 days 7 hours ago

6.5 - just admit respecting people is a matter of convenience to you

Everyone has been called names and made fun of before, no one past the age of 5 has not been made fun of, so everyone knows to extent to be ridiculed. And i am very anti-politically correct, i am not going to call different groups the names they want to be called just to be overly nice to people i don't care about.

When did the human race get so damn sad that it needs a worldwide law to deal with people orally or in text offending others, this not a war crimes trail, the gays aren't pow getting torchered, leave international laws for issues of merit, not a stupid online homophobic rant.

If a straight person makes fun of gays and a gay person cusses that person out, i would respect that person more than a whiney ass that screamed to the pc thug squad.

You mention respecting people, but you didn't practice what you preached to the guy(not hiphop) on that site, so much for treating others with good nature and respect. You using hurtful and harming word on him throws out any moral or civic standing, you are on so how are you any better than hiphop for attacking gays. People will always be disrespectful of each other it's human nature so is kindness and every other aspect of people.

But the government and other groups do not have any business telling people, you have be kind or respectful to anyone if you choose not to, it's a personal choice and i'll be damned if anyone can dictate to me how i should think or feel about people/groups.

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Ssxtreme36 - 45 days 5 hours ago

6.6 - @madjedi

first off, damonthemoney took the exact words out of my mouth and i thought that you, madjedi did a very good job at presenting your point....

but, if you knew anything about the Bitbag.com & mikemadden, you would known exactly why Damon said what he did say....thats all i really need to say. just to give you a brief hint: Mikemadden = troll

Overall it was a good podcast, it started off slow but towards the end it was on fire. probably one of the best Warzones i have heard in a long time and anyone who already listened to it knows exactly what i mean when i say that the last 15 - 20 mins was absolute Gold. im somewhat surprised this actually made it to N4G....

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Software_Lover - 45 days 17 hours ago

7 - The sad thing is that

the guy at Valve said nothing about the PSN "community".

What he said was:

Faliszek replied went on: "In hooking up with your friends and the community aspects, I think the Xbox 360 is head and shoulders above the PS3. The 360 and PC are on par, right?"

Basicly its easier to join in and play with your friends on the 360. End of story. People let a headline misinterpretation to get hits stir up some bologne war. What he said was true...........for the time being. It has always been that way. You can join in on a game that your friend is playing. Thats my only gripe with psn.

couldn't care less about all that other xbox live/psn stuff:facebook, twitter, netflix.

People take this video game, toy stuff too seriously. Some of you actually take it to heart. Which is fine I guess. But dont misconstrue someone's words.

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Statix - 45 days 15 hours ago

7.1 -

Yeah, I never thought from the very beginning that Valve was actually insulting the PS3's community itself. They were talking about the 360 having community and communications features that put it "heads and shoulders above the PS3," although I really have to take exception to that assertion.

Is the lack of cross-game voice chat really that HUGE of a deal that puts the 360's community features "heads and shoulders" above the PS3? Sure, it would be a cool feature, but when it comes right down to it, it wouldn't affect the actual GAMEPLAY of a game like Left 4 Dead... it wouldn't affect the gameplay AT ALL. It just seems to me like Valve has some sort of (philosophical or contractual) pact with Microsoft, and are grasping at straws to come up with any excusives to talk about how bad the PS3 is as a system, and excuses not to make games for it. On a number of occasions now, we've heard Valve insult the PS3 for a variety of things like its "overly complicated architecture," how it's not worth investing development resources in, and now about the lack of community and communication features.

I mean, for god's sake, if you're dead set on not developing for a system, you don't have to do your best to burn bridges and bash the system with typical (and flawed/inaccurate) fanboy arguments about how much the system sucks. It's fine if you prefer development on a particular system, but there's no need to insult the competition and make exaggerated fanboy-ish claims about them.

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Persistantthug - 45 days 13 hours ago

7.2 - @Software_Lover.....I gave you a disagree because you are wrong.....You either don't have a PS3 or play on it so little, that you don't know basic features.

You said,
"What he said was true...........for the time being. It has always been that way. You can join in on a game that your friend is playing. Thats my only gripe with psn."

Since when can you not play with your friends on PS3? That's a feature almost all online games have Software_Lover. Any game that doesn't have it, that's the fault of the developer. Bottom line, if said developer makes it so in their game, it's done.

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ghostface - 45 days 16 hours ago

8 - Hypocrite

Finally Torrence shows his true colors. I mean he's talking about PS3 fan-boys talking about the 360 has no games, d*** where was he when 360 fan-boys was saying the PS3 has no games.

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tordavis - 45 days 16 hours ago

8.1 -

"8 - Hypocrite
Finally Torrence shows his true colors. I mean he's talking about PS3 fan-boys talking about the 360 has no games, d*** where was he when 360 fan-boys was saying the PS3 has no games."

No where were YOU when I slammed Xbots for saying PS3 has no games? I ranted about that on my podcast. Don't quote chapters of a novel if you haven't read the whole book.

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Sarcasm - 45 days 5 hours ago

8.2 -

Actually that news to me, I always thought the general consensus was that 360 gamers said the "PS3 has no games" since the PS3 launched, not the other way around.

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9 Dellis | 45 days 16 hours ago - User only got 1 bubble - Show

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Stationfan - 45 days 15 hours ago

10 -

I think that was clearly shown when he didnt even know how to sinc his trophies during a live taping of his podcast, way to be a equal oppurtunity gamer.

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tordavis - 45 days 15 hours ago

10.1 -

Just because I didn't know how to sync trophies? Give me a break! I had just found out about trophy syncing a few days before that podcast and forgot how to find the menu. Whoopdee do! I guess that makes me an Xbot! LOL's for days from guys like you.

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Elven6 - 45 days 15 hours ago

10.2 -

So because someone doesn't know how to use a feature regarding a console, game, etc that makes them a fanboy towards the competition? I'm at a loss for words...

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DarK-SilV - 45 days 14 hours ago

10.3 - hahahahah funny as hell

How do you have 8 babbles??
Ignorance at its finest

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Ssxtreme36 - 45 days 5 hours ago

10.4 - People actually give a sh*t about bubbles on N4G?

@DarK-SilV, its simple. all you have to do is be a fanboy or an advocate of whatever topic/article your commenting on and let the other fanboys do the work for you.....

the fact that people can have up to 10 bubbles but still say some of the most retarded comments only further proves my point.....

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cmacdonald - 45 days 15 hours ago

11 -

Wow, sounds like a mess of idiots and children.

ha

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Enate - 45 days 15 hours ago

12 -

I've wanted one game that is multiplatform an that's Mass Effect your right. Though I have a PC an have played Mass Effect 4 times over so therefore I have no need of a 360. PS3/PC all day, an as for valve games I could care less to be honest.

An valve not having the money, lol seriously they own steam an make games that sell quite a bit they have the money.

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Apocalypse Shadow - 45 days 15 hours ago

13 - valve is no real concern to most ps3 fans

it's not like they push the envelope.it's not like they go back and build and engine from scratch.they ride their popularity from PC and hope to extend it to consoles.not going to work.

console gamers are used to seeing game evolution.game improvement.and after seeing sony themselves willing to push the envelope on games and show devs what they could achieve with ps3,valve doesn't deserve much notice if at all.i don't plan on buying any of their games or buy a system to play their games.

but sony is risking their money to make outstanding new games and improve their previous franchises like killzone.that deserves support.i wouldn't have even thought that i would be buying most of my games from sony.on ps1 and ps2,they were not that great.good here and there.but again,sony changed my view of them from the games,the system and their generous free services.

but most looked at sony and said,"no way."there is no way you could possibly get close or surpass your target trailers.and at the beginning,it looked grim.games like untold legends was weak.full auto from sega was wack.if it wasn't for resistance and motorstorm stepping up(early code looked weak),ps3 games at launch would have been a total failure.

but what we didn't know,was that sony was biding their time,risking their reputation by building game engines that would prove cell and bluray's worth(which created long development times).prove that the target trailers can be achieved with enough time and effort.and they have.and if the other two SPEs could have been used,it would have been devastating to see ps3's true power.

so whatever valve has to say means nothing to me.the thing is that you CAN play online and use a headset.you CAN group up with friends.so misquoted or not,valve is a worthless company that will use the same engine over and over.and they want you to pay the same amount or more for their games.

that deserves no support from me.and not from my wallet.

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The Lazy One - 45 days 14 hours ago

13.1 - what do you mean not pushing the envelope?

I don't think valve has made a game in the past decade that hasn't in some way pushed the gameplay envelope. Half life was a great game. Half life 2 did great things for episodic content, portal was exceptional, Team fortress had great class based multiplayer gameplay, counter strike is still one of the most popular games ever, Left 4 Dead was an amazing multiplayer experience.

Pushing more polygons isn't the only way to push the envelope.

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Apocalypse Shadow - 45 days 13 hours ago

13.2 - it's not just polygons

it's story,animation,lighting,camer a angles,etc.

sure you don't need great graphics,but when a company is unwilling to push themselves,why should i support that?

some think ps3 fans just look to graphics.so i'm guessing l4d's "STORY" is the best it could be from them?or that l4d 2's story will be better?

nope.just looks like you just shoot over and over.great story there.

see...has nothing to do with graphics.they don't push themselves when it comes to even that.so why should i bother?

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The Lazy One - 45 days 9 hours ago

13.3 - Left4 Dead doesn't have a story...

outside of survive.

It's still a brilliant and emotion evoking experience. It's also incredibly fun.

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Elven6 - 45 days 15 hours ago

14 -

I disagree with HipHopGamer, the smaller studios he's referring to are:

1. Making exclusive games on 1 platform, in comparison to Valve who codes for PC and ports over.
2. They are funded by Sony, Microsoft, etc hence are also entitled to other "bonuses" (advertising, help, etc).
3. Sometimes entitled to tax benefits for development (like here in Canada, the government will pay for your development costs to a certain extent if you meet their specifications)

Torrence, Valve has over 190 employees, from their official YouTube channel.

http://www.youtube.com/user...

"Today, Valve is composed of just over 190 of the industry's best artists, programmers, and writers. In the company's 12-year history, it has risen from "unlikely new entry" to industry leader, producing a string of best selling and critically acclaimed PC products and technologies."

At the same time, not knowing how Valve works and how split those 190 people are in terms of programmers, artists, etc makes it hard to predict.

I like Valve and their games but I think their claims could have a bit more weight to them if the 360 version was a bit more on par with the PC version of their games when it comes to post launch support. Take TF2 for instance, last time I checked, the difference between the PC and 360 ports is huge! I'm not talking about mods or anything either, but patches, updates, etc stuff that the developer has direct control over.

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Stationfan - 45 days 14 hours ago

15 -

Since Valve is not going to be brining L4D to ps3, i'm hoping that Borderland Zombie DLC fills in that hole.

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Elven6 - 45 days 14 hours ago

15.1 -

No don't say that! Millions of fanboys will have to explain to you that DLC is not compensation for a full game!....

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TABSF - 45 days 14 hours ago

16 -

Valve has tons of money

They don't want to do PS3 because there is no money on PS3
It would cost Valve more money to develop it on PS3 and Sony get royalties on all games, the cost of development and Sony royalties will far outweigh the profits on PS3.

Valve has the money to make the game but why release the game on PS3 if they don't make money on the game.
Also Valve would have to employ people to code for it.

Valve love PC and only port to 360 because its easy
Valve treat Steam community to lots of free content that 360 will never see

Valve are PC that is it, don't people get that.

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DarK-SilV - 45 days 14 hours ago

17 - Tor Halo graphics are outdated

For the people calling Torrence a xbot ,you don’t know him very well ,yes he defends the X360 a lot ,maybe more than Ps3 because people force him to do so , he also defends the Ps3 and he doesn’t hate the system.

He has some opinions that I don’t agree with but that doesn’t make him a fanboy
To me a fanboy is person who loves something and blindly hate on other things

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Major_Tom - 45 days 13 hours ago

18 -

Why is he lifting up his shirt sleeve to reveal his arm muscles, no one cares bro.

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Sarcasm - 45 days 5 hours ago

19 -

I know it's just Torrence's opinion that he thinks Halo 3 looked amazing, but god I'm sorry that makes anything he says rather questionable. Halo 3 graphics amazing!?!?!?

Maybe if it actually looked like this

http://nostalgeek.files.wor...

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The Gamer Zone is for members who want a more friendly and civilized discussion. This section is heavily moderated by the N4G staff, so leave your fanboyism at the door please. Members who are unable to behave in a mature and respectful manner will be temporarily or permanently restricted from posting in the Gamer Zone. Using words such as Xbots and Sony droids, or other words from the console war vocabulary, is strictly prohibited in this Zone.
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Chet Faliszek 360 - 45 days 18 hours ago

1 -

valve speak the truth. psn is lame...

The 360 is better for community if you think otherwise your in denial or have never actually used Live.

There isnt a big community on psn..

xbl>>>psn

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ultimolu - 45 days 17 hours ago

1.1 -

Only in the world of delusional bots such as yourself. Keep dreaming Romeo, but as far as I can see, PSN is reaching XBL's level.

And guess what?

It's free. :)

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redsquad - 45 days 16 hours ago

1.2 -

What's your PSN ID new boy? I mean, you must have been on it for months to make such a statement.

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Biggunz - 45 days 14 hours ago

1.3 -

I think what Failiszek meant by the 360 community fitting in better with Valve is, the 360 online base is full of childish imbeciles that buy into the hype created by Valve about L4D2 and will buy it.

360 consumers have been conditioned to pay $60 for games that should be $20 expansion packs like Halo ODLC and now L4D2.

Valve knows where the suckers are.

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NecrumSlavery - 45 days 16 hours ago

2 -

PSN is huge, I've never had any issues with it. LIVE is a joke and completely not worth $50.

So Valve is just stuck with being a "PS3 Hater", since they shot themselves in the foot with Sony fans.

PSN=Free > unLiVE

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ambientFLIER - 45 days 9 hours ago

2.1 -

Do you have Live? No? OK then, stfu. I have both and I never use PSN. It's more than worth $4 a month. Omg, that's so expensive!!!

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Ripyealip - 45 days 13 hours ago

3 - @ Chet Faliszek

valve speaks for fat ass prostitutes.

360 is better for the casual gamer and its online community best suits children like your self. if you think otherwise you are in denial or your just embarrassed to admit it because Microsoft touched you. and your to scared to tell anyone so you can't upgrade to a ps3 and move on.

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