290°

Insomniac: 60FPS no more

On Ratchet:

"Playing the latest Ratchet & Clank, it's clear that while Uncharted developer Naughty Dog has scooped plenty of plaudits for its tech, Insomniac perhaps isn't getting the credit it deserves. The game is immensely detailed, throws about tons of those difficult alpha transparencies with abandon, renders absurd amounts of objects at almost any given point and works tirelessly in attempting to sustain 60FPS."

Digital Foundry finds that Ratchet struggles to maintain 60fps and argues that Insomniac might be right in choosing 30fps for future titles.

"With Insomniac's Ratchet & Clank, the platform-style gameplay simply doesn't require the level of response you get with a 60FPS frame-rate. And with all the respect in the world, as the performance graph shows, often you're not getting it anyway. 60FPS offers very little to the game's overall proposition to gamers, and Mike Acton is right: in terms of marketing value and potential sales, shifting the focus from frames to an overall improved image quality will probably yield dividends. It's why it's the right move for Insomniac and Ratchet & Clank, even if it's not difficult to disagree with many of the fundamental aspects of how the company seemingly came to its decision."
MNicholas - contributor
Published: 47 days 18 hours ago | Article | PlayStation 3 | Gaming | Tech
 
 

Showing: 1 - 47 of 47 Comments
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callahan09 - 48 days ago
1 -
Yes, yes they do. There are so many insane moments throughout the game with so much going on on screen at once. There can be just literally thousands of projectiles zooming about the screen, the dynamo of doom and tesla coils are electrifying everything, Mr. Zurkon is flying around trash-talking and blowing the daylights out of everything, the doom blades are slicing and dicing and weaving in and out of their targeted enemy over and over before running out of steam and falling to the ground, the rift is cherry-picking enemies off the ground, and all this is going on at the same time! It's amazing how hectic it gets, how much is going on, the sheer, utter apocalyptic chaos, and the frame-rate never drops at all. What's important is the smoothness. If they can retain all the chaos and activity, but make it look even BETTER and keep it smooth, then 30 frames is awesome. Smoothness is what matters, not 60 vs. 30.
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O2_Addict - 47 days 23 hours ago
1.1 - Absolutely.
Easily the most under-rated developer on the planet. As Digital Foundry says, this game has so much going on at once it's amazing that it runs at 60fps. Not only that, some people like to claim that the PS3 cant handle alpha-blending well but this game has far more alpha blending than any game I've seen on any platform at any frame-rate.

What's more it's real alpha blending, not the low quality, alpha to coverage (dithering) used by many other 60fps games like Forza 3.
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aliveinboston - 47 days 23 hours ago
1.2 - Really shows the power of the Cell
Just like the PS2 and it's Vector Units, the Cell processor and it's SPUs make it possible to create games like Ratchet at 60fps.

I can't imagine how awesome a 30fps Ratchet will look. Double the polygons, textures, shaders, and pretty much double everything!!!
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DaTruth - 47 days 21 hours ago
1.3 -
Probably demo impressions, knowing these guys. These guys love to do demo analysis and comparisons, but when the final retail copy appears, they are nowhere to be found!

This probably won't get approval, as it is a great read and very informative, but lacks the necessary flame-bait!

These guys have good tech analysis articles for people who are interested, but they always have to throw in their Euroflamer fanboy bias.
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HolyOrangeCows - 47 days 18 hours ago
1.4 - If they can do what they did with 60fps....
...imagine how great they can make graphics with 30fps? Perhaps 1080p??
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fishd - 47 days 18 hours ago
1.5 -
HAHA!
in 17 min and with 15 comments,this story is already at 70 Degree But somehow this one...

http://www.n4g.com/xbox360/...
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Bodyboarder_VGamer - 47 days 17 hours ago
1.6 - If they can do what they did with 60fps.... ...imagine how great they can make graphics with 30fps? Perhaps 1080p??
Believe me my friend, a higher fps it's better than higher resolution and by a long shot. Just play the 600p CoD:MW2 to see how awesome it looks and feel.

Another thing is that changing fps for resolution would nullified the point of reducing the fps for better visuals. Resolution make the image look sharper but it would present the same problem as having a high fps. In a word: pointless.
------------------

This news makes me sad because I always wanted a Resistance game running at 60fps but we got a Ratchet & Clank game, were high fps is not needed.

Third person games that run at 60fps it's just a waste of time, but for first-person-shooters, racing games and fighting games it's absolutely needed. That's why Call of Duty games are so awesome!
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Unicron - 47 days 17 hours ago
1.7 -
I disagree body. I think if a 30fps FPS is consistent without dips, thats just as good. MW2 looks smooth, but it sacrifices a lot (textures, effects (wait till you see the banding in the snow storm), and resolution to run as such. Yes, I love that it's so smooth, but at the same time, I won't say it's instantly better than something like Resistance or Halo.
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raztad - 47 days 17 hours ago
1.8 -
Many people disregard R&C due to the "kiddie" look but true be told, game is very impressive. The amount of stuff going on in any R&C combat section is something to behold. I think not even KZ2 reach that level. Sometimes I loss visual of Ratchet for an instant because thare are so much color, particles, smoke (beautifully colored and pseudo transparent smoke), it's crazy.

I'm really happy with ACiT. Absolutely worth $60.
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STONEY4 - 47 days 15 hours ago
1.9 -
"If they can do what they did with 60fps.... ...imagine how great they can make graphics with 30fps? Perhaps 1080p??"

Raising it to 1080p alone would bring the fps down quite a bit, around 40-45. At least there would be less jaggies.

"Believe me my friend, a higher fps it's better than higher resolution and by a long shot. Just play the 600p CoD:MW2 to see how awesome it looks and feel."

And have you noticed how many jaggies there are and the slight blurriness? 600p on a 1080p HDTV looks ugly.
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Blaster_Master - 47 days 15 hours ago
1.10 -
You mean to tell me that Insomniac can do better graphics then Crack in Time? Holy crap! I cant wait to get my hands on the next one. BTW, Crack in Time is gorgeous, and Ive yet to see one stutter when tons of things are going on at the same time. Crack in Time is in my top 3 for GOTY prospects. Its one of the best games Ive ever played and definitely the best Ratchet ever!
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aliveinboston - 47 days 13 hours ago
1.11 - Their AA technique
helped make the game look smoother even with frame-rate fluctuations.

The visuals in MGS4 are still astounding. It seems as if they developed completely different rendering systems for different parts of the game. Some of the scenes are simply breath-taking.
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Unicron - 47 days 12 hours ago
1.12 -
"You mean to tell me that Insomniac can do better graphics then Crack in Time?"

Yes, we can.
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boodybandit - 47 days 11 hours ago
1.13 - @1.5 I noticed that too and
it doesn't make any sense at all.
I am the 54th response to this article and it's already 250 degrees while the other article you mentioned ( http://www.n4g.com/xbox360/... ) has 54 responses and it's only 20 degrees. It makes no sense at all.

On topic: Ratchet and Clank A Crack in Time is my top 3 favorite titles this year "but" I have always been a huge fan of the series so I'm a little biased when it comes to this franchise. I think this is the first title this year that I had zero complaints with. The only thing I miss is the bee hive weapon. I thought that was a blast to use.

I only have two trophies to go for my first platinum trophy. Not sure if I will complete it on hard but my blaster runs hot shouldn't be a problem.

All I know is this title is gorgeous and it's needs to be seen and played to be believed. Using the Ryno on hard difficulty surrounded by dozens of enemies, while collecting hundreds of coins and no slow down? There is so much going on at one time it's a wonder this games frame rate isn't brought to it's knees.

The game is simply unreal and IMHO under appreciated and overlooked for the truly amazing title it is.
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3sexty rulzzz - 47 days 10 hours ago
1.14 - I am sorry to bust your bubble, but
two years ago Madden for 360 ran at 60fps while the ps3 Madden ran at only 30fps; the difference was so strickingly obvious the sdf threatened EA. THEY ARE FINE WITH WHATEVER SONY FIRST AND SECOND PARTY DEVELOPERS SAY. SAD. *Looks down at 360 and smiles* :)
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O2_Addict - 47 days 23 hours ago
2 - One more thing ...
I disagree with Digital Foundry on GT5. Polyphony Digital does not put out bull-shots, they put out shots from photo-mode. It's just that their photomode can handle much higher detail.
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DaTruth - 47 days 21 hours ago
2.1 -
So does Forza with replay mode(suddenly it's okay), that can handle higher detail than the gameplay, just far less than GT5 gameplay and photomode!

At least it's not blatant Gears of war bullshots!

I don't even want to read their bullshots article. We've all seen the videos and the demo, so their bullshots analysis is unnecessary!
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Natsu X FairyTail - 47 days 22 hours ago
3 -
As long the games looks good I dont think people will even Notice the differences between 60FPS and 30FPS.

Keep up the good work.
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O2_Addict - 47 days 21 hours ago
3.1 - It depends on how they handle motion
MGS4 looks a lot smoother than 30fps because of the way they handle smoothing between frames.

Given how well Ratchet:ACIT does it I have no doubt that Insomniac will do a bang-up job with it.

Gears, on the other hand, doesnt feel look smooth but that fits right into the gameplay, which is meant to be jerky and jarring. Something like Ninja Gaiden, which is about elegance and smoothness will be difficult to adapt to 30fps even with good interframe smoothing.
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aliveinboston - 47 days 21 hours ago
3.2 - Gears 1 & 2 had horrible frame-rates
It's hard to find a 360 game without frame-rate problems.

Forza 3 is one of the few exceptions but it sacrificed visuals to have a good frame-rate.

ps.
Whoever disagreed must think that Gears 1 & 2 have spectacular frame-rates and that Forza 3 is the pinnacle of console graphics. Sorry buddy, frame-rate and tech analysis on these games have say no to both. Try again.
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STONEY4 - 47 days 15 hours ago
3.3 -
"MGS4 looks a lot smoother than 30fps because of the way they handle smoothing between frames."

It's because the framerate isn't locked. Some areas you'll notice it looks smooth and it rises to about 45-50 fps, while other areas will feel alot less smooth and lowers to around 25-30.
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madkrazygames - 47 days 20 hours ago
4 - @Aliveinboston
I think every game should run a 30 FPS, because you can get more out the game, look at Killzone 2. But I agree with you bro I'm the biggest Gears of War fan, but the framerate was god awful in both.
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Gago - 47 days 18 hours ago
5 - lets not go backwards
while more and more game are making 60 fps a standard these guys are downgrading to 30 fps

sad
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TheBand1t - 47 days 17 hours ago
5.1 -
The human eye really can't make out much of a difference between 60 and 30 FPS.
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blu_yu_away - 47 days 17 hours ago
5.2 -
You can't really tell the difference. Whats more important is maintaining a smooth framerate. If they can maintain 30fps with no drop in framerate than they will be able to manage more going on onscreen at once.
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gamingisnotacrime - 47 days 17 hours ago
5.3 - 60 rate is founf in limited games
"while more and more game are making 60 fps a standard these guys are downgrading to 30 fps "

What games are those?
30 rate is the norm while 60 is what MW 2 thrives on (because is not at HD)
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mmj - 47 days 17 hours ago
5.4 -
"The human eye really can't make out much of a difference between 60 and 30 FPS."

That's true if you're merely watching something, but when gaming you are interacting with it and there is certainly lag in 30fps games which is easily recognisable.

Try playing a 60fps and then going to a 30fps game or vice versa, if you can't tell a difference I'll be astonished.
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Gago - 47 days 16 hours ago
5.5 -
there is a day and night difference, if you can't tell then you need to see an eye doctor

the human eye can see up to 120 fps

with 60 fps you see 2x the animation, react 2x as fast, and the overall experience of the game game and animation is ALOT more life like ,smoother, and fluid

games that run at 60 fps:

Gran Turismo Series

Forza series

Devil May Cry series

Ninja Gaiden series

Dead or alive series

Call of duty series

Metal Gear solid 2

Super smash bros brawl

Counter Strike series

Virtua Fighter series

Tekken series

and many many more
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STONEY4 - 47 days 15 hours ago
5.6 -
"Counter Strike series"

You can't really say that since it's on PC and it depends on your hardware, although I don't think there's anyone now who can't max out Counter-Strike at 60fps.
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TheBand1t - 47 days 11 hours ago
5.7 -
Okay, I'll use Uncharted 2 and Killzone 2 as examples here. Both are locked at 30FPS, and both are absolutely gorgeous and fun to play games.

30FPS is hardly going backwards. It's sacrificing a not exactly noticable thing to get more and better effects, better textures, etc.
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slugboss - 47 days 18 hours ago
6 - Fast gameplay will take a back seat.
Until nextgen, resistance 1 definitely wouldn't be as well received if it was 30 fps.
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TruUnknowN - 47 days 17 hours ago
7 -
Wasn't there an article about this already? :\
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XDF - 47 days 17 hours ago
8 - Is it me or I found...
Resistance 2 graphics look like cr@p. Hope they can step up the graphics and add new things to Resistance 3.

BTW, Both Resistance 3, KZ2, World at War 2, Halo Reach and Gears of War should all be hitting at the end of 2010. That is Too much shooter overload.
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colonel179 - 47 days 17 hours ago
8.1 -
Killzone 3 won't come out in 2010, it's just too soon. They usually take at least 2 years (except L4D 2), and Gears of War 3 probably won't come out in 2010 either.
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gamingisnotacrime - 47 days 17 hours ago
8.2 - Nope, it is not you
R2 is one of the few games i regret buying at full price.
It was so pathetic, one of the worst games i have played this gen. Looks like crap, plays worse and the story is nowhere to be found.

On the article, i am 100% for dropping the 60 rate and get the visuals right
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mmj - 47 days 17 hours ago
9 -
Well if they can't be bothered to optimised a game for 60fps I'm not buying it.

It's one of the biggest reasons I fell out with my 360 way too many 30fps games.
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STONEY4 - 47 days 15 hours ago
9.1 -
So you don't like Uncharted 2? You do realize that game is constantly at 30fps? And most 360 games run at around 25fps average, which is probably why it felt like crap.
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Freak of Nature - 47 days 17 hours ago
10 -
For a 3rd person act/platformer such as Ratchet shifting the focus from frames to an overall improved "image quality" will probably yield dividends......
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mmj - 47 days 17 hours ago
10.1 -
Not enough to justify a 50% cut in the frame-rate.

It's not like it's going to be full 1080P as a result, any difference will be minimal what it comes down to is laziness in my opinion.
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STONEY4 - 47 days 15 hours ago
10.2 -
They can pump a whole lot more with 30fps in terms of visuals. I can tell you that back when I had an 8800GTX and I first played Crysis, the only way to get constant 60fps at my resolution was at low. If I pumped it up to high, which looked much, much better, I would only get about 30 fps, but the visual difference between high and low was massive. Same here: they'll be able to pull off a much more visually impressive game with 30fps.
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Sevir04 - 47 days 16 hours ago
11 - ll this does is simply confirm what i have been saying!!! New techniques have been learnt and applied
to their ever growing engine. Sooo!!! :) Like i've been trying to share with my fellow insomniac fans who love both Resistance and Ratchet, the game i saw at their studios was AMAZINGLY gorgeous, and almost rivaled KZ2 in graphic fidelity, mind you, the game is exactly a year away, but for being a year from release and looking this good, when Insomniac gets up and shows the world what i've seen, i'll simply state I told you so to all my non believers. ^^ They are awesome, and their engine has come along way from R:FOM to now...

Ted wasn't joking when he said the insomniacs can do tricks on the PS3 now.. Not too much longer, not too much longer indeed.

:)
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aliveinboston - 47 days 13 hours ago
11.1 - It's funny how people click disagree
but don't have the confidence to say what they are disagreeing with. Obviously they don't even have faith in their own beliefs and opinions.
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raztad - 47 days 13 hours ago
11.2 -
Come on Svir THAT game got to be R3, right? I know, you dont need to tell :D

One year away, rivals KZ2 (another FPS). Too many clues :)
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Freak of Nature - 47 days 12 hours ago
11.3 - @raztad
I believe, if I recall correcly that Sevir04 is referring to an all new IP. Not certain,but hopefully he can clarify.

I was thinking something from the new North Carolina studio.

Oh and I for one believe him.....
12 huangzhixian04 | 47 days 11 hours ago - deleted by mod -
12.1 TheBand1t | 47 days 11 hours ago - deleted by mod -
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adlt - 47 days 9 hours ago
13 - I've never played Ratchet and Clank...
For the graphics, I've always loved them for the gameplay and humor. So this doesn't matter to me, hopefully some others are out there like me!
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