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Insomniac Interview: 60,000 polygon boss models

In a recent interview with Autodesk (developers of Maya), Sam Sharit talks about Insomniac's proprietary game engine, the technology that went into Resistance 2 and other very interesting topics.

"For Resistance 2 we hovered around 5 to 10 thousand triangles. We actually count in quads at insomniac so that would be 2500 to 5000 quads. This is an average, but for things like bosses we go as high as 60,000 tris. However, as I said, it depends on the game, so a game like GTA is going to have lower counts due to the sheer number of assets in the game."

"Insomniac uses its own in house engine. The PlayStation 3 engine was developed for Resistance: Fall of Man, then iterated on for Ratchet and Clank Future: Tools of Destruction, and even further iterated on for Resistance 2. Insomniac has been my first experience working with an in-house engine and I really like the level of control of working with one. One major reason is that it is made to take full advantage of the PS3 hardware, and I have been able to really push some key assets, like the 300-foot tall Leviathan, much further than I would have been able to using some of the other commercial engines on the market. It also allows the artists to dictate to the tech and tools programmers what tools and interfaces we want, and how we want to use them. I find with most commercially available engines the tools are dictated by the company creating the engine, and this may or may not be good for what type of game you're making or your company's established pipeline."
issa3032 - contributor
Published: 400 days 12 hours ago | Interview | PlayStation 3 | Industry News | Dev News | Tech
 
 

Showing: 1 - 44 of 44 Comments
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DJ - 400 days 13 hours ago
1 - That's a CRAPLOAD of physical detail.
=O
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issa3032 - 400 days 13 hours ago
1.1 -
That's why I want people to enjoy this article. Because it has "industry-level" detail/knowledge. This article is meant for people in the video-game industry to read. This isn't your typical IGN or Gamepro interview so I think it's very valuable.
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elorm9 - 400 days 12 hours ago
1.2 - Wow...
So many polygons! But they really should've focused on getting the physics part right.
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Bebedora - 400 days 11 hours ago
1.3 -
issa3032 - you got a bubble for this one
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xenogamer - 400 days 10 hours ago
1.4 - thats alot of
polygons
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MAR-TYR-DOM - 400 days 10 hours ago
1.5 - nice
you guys appreciate the work the guys over at Polyphony do, 200 000 polygons per car!!!!
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arika - 400 days 8 hours ago
1.6 - one of my favorite.
insomiac is one my favorite ps3 exclusive game developers. from a third person game like ratchet and clank, then they went into an fps game(aka resistance 1 & 2) where they have little or no experience at all, well its safe to say now that most of the reviews are out that they have done an excellent job. whatever they do be assured that we as gamers are getting our moneys worth on every game that they make. they have earned a lot of gamers respect and admiration. ted price for prez.. lol maybe on the next election... hehehe.
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SonyOwnsNextYear - 400 days 7 hours ago
1.7 -
everyone give issa some bubbles damit
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ThatCanadianguy420 - 400 days 12 hours ago
2 -
That was an interesting read.Makes me Appreciate Insomniac even more.
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The Matrix - 400 days 11 hours ago
2.1 -
Insomniac in my opinion is the best developer in the history of video games. I've been a slave of their games since I played my favorite game of all time, R & C going commando. R & C Future and Resistance where the reason I finally put all that money down for a PS3.
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elorm9 - 400 days 10 hours ago
2.2 - I know right?
I don't think they're the best (still gotta consider Kojima, Naughty Dog and some others). I've been playing R & C on the PS2, but I didn't get Future because it lacked online like Deadlocked and UYA.
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The Matrix - 400 days 9 hours ago
2.3 -
I don't want to get flamed by Kojima and Naughty dog fanboys since I love both of those developers but in my opinion Insomniac is in a whole different league.

And Insomniac has been a life saver for the PS3, I mean they made Resistance which kept the PS3 alive for the first year. The PS3 might be dead now if Resistance didn't exist. Then they made R & C future the next year, then they made an awesome DLC game in Quest for Booty and now they came out with a very important shooter in Resistance 2 to compete for the holiday with Gears 2 and Fable 2.

Insomniac is almost single handedly keeping the PS3 at a high level.
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SonyOwnsNextYear - 400 days 7 hours ago
2.4 - MATRIX I REALLY LIKED THE GAMES YOUMENTIONED
your a tad bit off though.

Insomniac is 1 of many exclusive contracts which brought life to the ps3, amid failure PORTS.

r1
heavenlysword
motorstorm
gtp
warhawk
uncharted
RnC
Mgs4
lbp
r2

those are just some of them.... i think, LOL. they are the ones i bought and finished
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smurfie4 - 400 days 12 hours ago
3 -
Insomniac is always pushing the bar no doubt about that. I'm interested in seeing what tech made it over to Killzone 2 seeing as Insomniac and Guerilla are sharing tools.
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MNicholas - 400 days 10 hours ago
3.1 - Why don't we ever see screens from those space ship interiors?
Do the reviewers not play that far into the game?
4 Cynical-Gamerzus | 400 days 12 hours ago - User only got 1 bubble - Show
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trancefreak - 400 days 12 hours ago
4.1 -
The interior space ship levels were amazingly gorgeous to look at.
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Boty - 400 days 12 hours ago
5 - That is very impressive!
Games that jump leaps and bounds are the games that should get a lot of credit. Physics in this game are amazing as well too. I prey that this game does very well, because the devs have out done them self's!

I can't wait for their next game! I wonder what its going to be. Any Ideas?
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Steven Colbert - 400 days 10 hours ago
5.1 -
I think the next Ratchet and Clank is already a done deal.
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Boty - 400 days 10 hours ago
5.2 - I Agree..
The latest R&C was pretty cool! The next one will be amazing!

I know they should look into doing more FPSs. They do a great job!
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Figboy - 400 days 8 hours ago
5.3 - Ratchet and Clank Future: Quest for Booty
already confirmed that the next Ratchet and Clank game is coming out in fall 2009, so it's a safe guess to say that Ratchet and Clank is their next game, but we've yet to see what the newly formed North Carolina Insomniac studio is planning.
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ikiru3385 - 400 days 11 hours ago
6 -
with much respect and admiration for Insomniac, the character modeling didn't look THAT much improved over the first one. But the lighting/shading effects are definitely superb.
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GamingGeekPS3360 - 400 days 10 hours ago
6.1 - @ikiru3385
There is a big difference in the character modeling over R1.....please check it out again..

The Character models in R1 look flat...there is more detail in R2 Character models..

What I love about R2...that I never appereicated in R1 is MP.....there is a crap load of $hit going on-screen at once...and I have yet to have my online MP game lag...that is impressive..

I truly like R2 MP better than R1....very fun...
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DJ - 400 days 10 hours ago
6.2 - Yeah, the character modeling didn't look too different
And the level of detail was about equal in terms of polys. What made a huge leap was the shader technology, as well as the art direction. Hopefully they'll be able to up the poly counts significantly for the third outing, as well as borrow some of that lighting tech from Killzone.
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GamingGeekPS3360 - 400 days 11 hours ago
7 - that was Good.....
That is the first piece of news/article/post/thread/whate ver....that was a good read..on N4G in a very long time.....

That made my day....very good..
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Marceles - 400 days 10 hours ago
8 -
The Area: First software/3D application?
Sam: Lightwave

Nice, LW is good software as well
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IDemonstalkerXI - 400 days 9 hours ago
8.1 -
expensive *whistles*
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DJ - 400 days 9 hours ago
8.2 - Hehe, nah it's pretty cheap.
About $1300 for version 9.5, which is loads of fun btw. Maya on the other hand, that'll set you back about 7 Grand. o_o
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GWAVE - 400 days 10 hours ago
9 -
Nice read. Insomniac is definitely one of the top developers out there. And I'm glad that they've branched out of the R&C series. It's not a bad series, but I like seeing their creative abilities applied to the FPS genre a la Resistance.
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i_like_ff7 - 400 days 10 hours ago
10 -
Thats damn good. To give you guys an idea on how good 60,000 poly's is, in crysis, a character's normal map is 67,000 polygons. It means resistance's rendered model is almost as good as a normal map in crysis.
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TheIneffableBob - 400 days 10 hours ago
10.1 -
Crysis sometimes hits 2.5 million polys per frame, though.

And here's something I found interesting. 12 million polys in this frame. Incredibly unoptimized, but beautiful. :P
http://img2.abload.de/img/5...
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i_like_ff7 - 400 days 10 hours ago
10.2 -
Woah i never said resistance 2 looks better then crysis lol..
EDIT: I beat crysis already and i don't remember that place. Is that a mod?
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SonyOwnsNextYear - 400 days 7 hours ago
10.3 - Yes it is a mod
crysis pushes alot of polygons...but i have way more fun with R2.

i built a 4k pc to shoot down some trees ...LOL
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SSJSubgeta - 400 days 10 hours ago
11 - @issa3032
Great article and a great read, I'll have to pass it around in our studio. Bubbles for you.
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Boty - 400 days 10 hours ago
12 - Its going to be great!
Its going to be great to see what insomniac have up there sleeve for their next title! Even better, Next generation!
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PirateThom - 400 days 9 hours ago
12.1 -
I'm guessing it's their next Ratchet title and, since it's on the same engine, I have no idea where they're going to go with it.

Tools of Destruction still has awesome graphics.
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castdreams - 400 days 9 hours ago
13 - Autodesk didn't develope Maya...
Alias developed Maya and then Autodesk bought Alias.
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Torch - 400 days 9 hours ago
14 - Nice to see
some proof in the pudding that R2 isn't comprised of "bland and outdated graphics" like numerous reviewers/haters claim.

Personally, I was blown away by not only the (obvious) majestic scale, but the fine and sharp details that went into the models, environment and textures of this amazing game.

What's even more amazing is hearing anyone claim otherwise.
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GamerReport - 400 days 6 hours ago
15 - He said 60,000 Tris, not Polys
"we go as high as 60,000 tris. "

So it's really 30,000 polys, but technically that is still a ton of polys for one character. But it's a boss so who's counting anyway? You gotta make 'em as bad ass as you can with as little amount of polys as possible. Insomniac is a great developer, hands down. Wish I owned a PS3.
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Jdoki - 400 days 2 hours ago
15.1 -
I don't want to nit-pick here but...

By definition, the simplest polygon is a 3 sided shape... a triangle.

So the bosses who are made of 60,000 tri's are made of 60,000 polygons. The guy simply stated that they count in quad's not tri's at Insomniac, (which would be 30,000).

In the question after the 'bosses are up to 60,000tris' answer the guy even states he was taken aback by being able to work on 60,000 poly models.

Quote: "I have never been able to make 60,000 poly models on the other games I have worked on. I was taken back a bit by how far I could push the polies here at insomniac..."
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GamerReport - 399 days 18 hours ago
15.2 - nit-pickin' fools
Jdoki- I know what you mean by nitpicking. I felt like I was being a "know it all" by even posting on this but.. I guess it depends on what software program you use or what developer you work at. In context, they were talking about Maya. In Mayas UI, it shows your tri count and poly count. So if the tri count is 60k, obviously the poly count would be half that. It would be nice however if people discussing these specifics would just stick to one count, either tris or polys, to stop any confusion on what they mean exactly when they say tris or polys. Seems like everyone has their own definition.
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Jdoki - 399 days 16 hours ago
15.3 -
GamerReport. Out of interest, as you appear to know a bit about Maya, do you know the reason why they would report in quads?

I know a triangle is the simplest polygon, and a quad is the simplest polygon that can intersect itself, but I would have no idea why they would report one or the other.

I guess even the experts get mixed up as Sam mentions tri's as the poly count and then quads as being their standard measure!
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Jdoki - 400 days 2 hours ago
16 -
ZOMG!!!11!!! Autodesk are such PS3 fanboyz /jk :)

Nice to see these sort of articles. They give a much deeper insight to the industry and the amount of work that goes in to game development. Always make me feel a little sorry for those devs who get get low game reviews - they still put in the effort, they just don't get the acclaim like Insomniac et al.

I haver a lot of respect for the hard work and patience games developers put in. Not just the art work, but the coding behind it all, the level designers etc etc.

Considering the amount of hours I've put in building and testing levels in something as simple as LBP I can only bow down to developers like Insomniac.
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xg-ei8ht - 400 days 1 hour ago
17 -
This is from a crysis dev talk.

14. What would you consider to be the biggest hurdle for modders making the transition from CE1 to CE2?

Getting enough time to discovering all our new features. J

15. As long as Official Engine Parameters for Crysis/CE2 have not been released, newly forming Crysis based mod teams are limited in what they can do. There are obvious planning stages these teams will go through, however something they could do now ahead of the release of Crysis is to 3D model. Can you comment on polycounts and its criticality within CE2 etc to give them a starting point for their models?

ANSWER
Weapons (1st person and 3rd person bind models)
1st person: about 6000 triangles (same as cryengine1; not more really needed – above, normal maps are not needed)
3rd person: about 1500 triangles

Characters
As we are using attachments we have to split the triangle numbers in the separate parts:
* Heads 3k triangles
* Body 5k triangles
* Attachments 1 k triangles

Vehicles
Max. 20000 polygons is our internal limit

Buildings
Hard to answer – put detail were detail is needed. No real need to go crazy. If you only have a few buildings in your level you can spend more triangles, but you should be careful in City maps.

Vegetation
Between 500 and 2500 triangles for trees –whereas the ones with 2500 should not be used in a dense forest because of the filtrate – It heavily depends on the scenery you want to create.

Misc entities
Depends on the size and the complexity.

If you use one material, 300 polygons for a box are ok. This is the minimum number, one set of material should use in an object, as the setup for the renderer is much heavier compared to the actual rendering of these polygons. This also means you do no need LODs for objects lower then 500-600 triangles (given they only use one material).

QUESTION

How many LODs will be supported in CE2, are you sticking to just the 3 again?

ANSWER

We stick to the 3 LOD's - not a real reason to make 4 (just needs more memory). Polycount is not the big problem when rendering our datasets. Material changes and the resulting draw-calls affect performance much more heavily on modern graphics cards than pure triangle count alone.

QUESTION

Can vegetation be rotated or is it necessary to model many versions of the same tree to stop the "tree tiling" look.

ANSWER

We support vertical rotation of vegetation.

QUESTION

What are the texture resolutions for weapons, character, etc. in Crysis?

ANSWER

Weapons 1024x1024; Character head: 512 x 512 to 1024 x 1024; Character body: 1024 x 1024; Attachments: 1024 x 1024.

A general rule should be that you do not extend 170 to 190MB for the targeted Spec including mesh geometry. The last 60 MB (256 – 60 = 196MB) will be used for dynamic textures (shadow maps).
You should therefore divide the available amount by the assets you want to show in the level.

A good advice is to keep the numbers of different materials per object very low and put more polygons into the object. The graphic card can a) handle polygons much better than loading different textures and b) can give you much more detail with lower memory consumption.

QUESTION

The number of materials per building:

ANSWER

From 7 till 20 materials.

QUESTION

The ingame height of a character unless the players want to bump their head on the doorway.

ANSWER

Real world size (means about 1.90 meter)

QUESTION

Gun clipping through walls, so what’s the thickness required before you can no longer see the gun?

ANSWER

There is no gun clipping in Crysis – all you need is a physics proxy.

QUESTION

Do breakable windows work in the engine on a DS? Do breakables work the same way as in CryEngine1?

ANSWER

no

QUESTION

What’s the height of a stair so a player can walk up the stairs without juddering/jumping?

ANSWER

Real world size (about 16 cm high and 32 cm deep)
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