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How much will game theft harm the Xbox 360?

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The Microsoft Xbox 360 could be heading for disaster. Basically it has become very easy and very common to chip the console to bypass the copy protection. And most customers would rather steal games than help to pay for their development. Microsoft's only recourse is to close the Xbox Live accounts when they detect a chipped deck playing a pirated game.
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bruceongames.com
Bruceongames - contributor
Published: 406 days 15 hours ago | Article | Xbox 360 | Industry News
 
 

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EyeShield 21 - 407 days ago
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1 -
PS2 was Heavily Pirated at the time and That dint stopped it from Reaching the Number one Spot. So I doubt that This will make the X360 Suffer that much. Just look at the Sales of Gears2 and Fable2.When Gamers really want a Game they'll go and buy it.

Im off to another thread with my MAX SPEED!!!
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GrieverSoul - 407 days ago
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1.1 -
PS2 was in fact helped by the fact that it was easy to modchip!
I think that helped the console to win the war. The X360 might get it the same way. If a friend of yours as one, u normally get it too. U dont tend to buy another one since u can have some games borrowed from a friend. This helps the console sales to grow. Even if that friend has it modded u wont mod it right out the box. U buy one or two original games and if the online grabs U then u DEFINITLY wont mod your console. But the decision to made the purchase was based on the fact that one day u eventually would mod it!

Funny thing is that I always thought that piracy was inevitable. And since Xbox 1 was easy to mod so early on it actually killed it since it had a small install base. However, the GameCube was modded later on on its life cycle and it still failed! My point is that now we have a console where piracy cant touch (yet I suppose)! The PS3 is piracy proof right now and I were a developer, I think I would actually try a one time experience with an exclusive on that particular console and see how it goes. After 3 or 5 months of release, I would announce a X360 version just to make some more money. However, the avid gamer would already bought the original for its PS3.
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1.2 Crazywhitie | 406 days 23 hours ago - User only got 1 bubble - Show
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hay - 406 days 14 hours ago
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1.3 -
It all depends. Dreamcast was also extremely easy to mod but died miserably and the world cried. But piracy isn't only black.

@Crazywhitie: wow, PS3 have been hacked? You gotta share with some sources cause I'm really curious how they managed to achieve that. I don't wont to do it myslef, im just technical enthusiast. PM me.

Although I really think you don't know what you're writing...
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The Lazy One - 406 days 14 hours ago
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1.4 - you didn't need a chip to pirate on the PS2...
You needed a boot disc, a DVD burner, and a little stick thing.

Also, you don't just lose your live account. They can block your account, credit card, and IP address if they find your offense bad enough. Half the games you'll pirate aren't worth it considering you lose the systems best selling point.
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BattleAxe - 406 days 13 hours ago
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1.5 -
Games cost alot more to develop these days, so I think because of that cost devs are going to be reluctant in the future to develop games for consoles with no copy protection.

Piracy may unfortunately kill the PSP, so I don't see why it wouldn't do the same for the XBOX 360. Right now Blu-Ray on the PS3 is a safe bet.
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hay - 406 days 12 hours ago
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1.6 -
@1.4: You could hack PS2 in different ways, with swapmagic, which was pretty much popular among mere mortals but lame.
You could modchip it and run any backup without any magic keys and swap magic, which was moderately popular.
And you could hack your memcard to run evil software and then boot your backups without buying either swapmagic and chip.
Or hack memcard to run hdloader which could be capable of running backups straight from hdd which wasn't 100% compatible but loading times were a lot shorter.
So I won't agree with your first part. But PS2 hacking scene has proven a lot more possibilities. Did you knew it's capable of running divx movies or even linux os?
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outlawlife - 406 days 3 hours ago
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1.7 -
in fairness the fact that is can run linux wasn't proven by any hacker, sony released a linux kit for the ps2, although it was extremely limited


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hay - 406 days 1 hour ago
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1.8 -
You don't need to be a hacker to run it...
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Yi-Long - 406 days 22 hours ago
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2 - Great games will always sell really well...
... mediocre games will maybe fall victim to piracy, cause people wanna try them out first.

Also, when a developer is DLC scamming you, or planning to DLC scam you, I wouldnt feel bad at all about pirating their game. Take for example the new Dead Space game, which already has DLC online which totals up to more than the price of the retail-game(!)
Take for example Soul Calibur 4, which already had DLC online the very same week it was getting released.

I dont pirate console games, but stuff like that does make you think about it.

On the other hand, some developers ARE really doing a great job, making great games AND providing free support (think Burnout Paradise, or Naruto Ultimate Storm (PS3) which both have free DLC, and which makes you want to buy and support that game.
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Raoh - 406 days 22 hours ago
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3 -
yeah, it doesnt hurt the gaming community. i hate microsoft, but i wouldnt turn down a cheap 360 (non arcade) to be able to download all my games for free. a few friends bought a 360 when they found out they could play games for free.

if the ps3 were hackable it's sales would rise too.

question is how developers react and treat the situation.
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Yi-Long - 406 days 22 hours ago
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3.1 - Yep...
... as soon as a console becomes mod-able, it attracts a whole new demographic. People that normally wouldnt spend money on games or on a console, but when there is the prospect to play the games for free, they're willing to make a small investment into it, so they can play some games from time to time.

Some games are worth buying, and some games arent. Some of the games that arent worth buying, for whatever reason, might still be worth playing though... so people will download them.

If they really want to fight piracy, they need to fix the pricing, and stop abusing the DLC and start making use of the DLC as an added sellingpoint!

A new game here in Holland costs 60-70 EURO (that's around 100 US dollars). When I'm already reading articles about the developers planning to release DLC right after the release which will cost me even more, I just dont bother with buying the game. I'll buy another game instead. The game I decided to NOT buy might be a great game, but as I dont enjoy being 'scammed' or 'overcharged', I'll pass.
If I would have the ability to download that game, I would. I would still be buying games that ARE worth buying, but when they release a censored game, or overcharge a game, or are already planning to DLC scam me, I wont buy it. But I would download it!
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mrdxpr2 - 406 days 7 hours ago
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3.2 -
exactly but im buying one used soo MS doesnt get my money hehehe and then im gona mod it and play pirated games.. i dont care about Live if i want to play online il just get the game for ps3 for a reasonable price and play online woot
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Fishy Fingers - 406 days 15 hours ago
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4 -
Less than people on forums will make out.

~side note~ The quality of the "pirate" caption images are beginning to slip.
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Jenzo - 406 days 15 hours ago
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5 -
Look at the software sales...
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elorm9 - 406 days 9 hours ago
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5.1 -
Look at how much more they could possibly make if pirating didn't exist
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Covenant - 406 days 15 hours ago
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6 -
Fable 2 and Gears 2 have sold about 4 million combined, so I don't think that piracy has hurt much, if at all.

Indeed, with the 360 having nearly 50 million-selling titles overall, it seems that 360 owners buy games in large quantities rather than frequently pirating them.
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Bruceongames - 406 days 15 hours ago
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6.1 - Look at tense
The question is how much harm will it do in the future.
Not how much harm has it done in the past.

Widespread modification of 360s for piracy is a recent phenomenon.
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Covenant - 406 days 14 hours ago
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6.2 -
Understood, but the system was modded pretty shortly after its release, which was nearly three years ago. I would think that if there was harm to be had, we would have seen it by now. Long-term is still to be decided, but I think the established precedent suggests that piracy will be a minor problem, at worst.

I could be wrong, tho.

Thanks for your reply.
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lokiroo420 - 406 days 14 hours ago
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6.3 -
Pirating may not be the issue in the US but countries like China and many others where prices for games are much higher, pirating runs rampant. Gears and Fable sold well but imagine how many more have been pirated? Eventually the 360 is going to lose all smaller gaming companies who are out to make a name for themselves.
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running rampid - 406 days 15 hours ago
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7 - by the looks of software sales
not much.
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GWAVE - 406 days 15 hours ago
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8 -
Piracy may hurt the console down the line since the 360 relies so heavily on 3rd parties to survive. If a 3rd party developer gets fed up and cuts support for the 360, what alternative does Microsoft have? None. However, I don't see this becoming a huge issue. Microsoft still has the hardware problems of the 360 breathing down their neck.
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KARMA2009 - 406 days 15 hours ago
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9 - -
Fanboys dont get it.PS2 never had a great online servive like LIVE. So in the future like next year and on,third parties will break away from the 360 if MS don't stop this pirated issue.Like the article said,MS won't lose money from this,3rd party developers will lose out and will abandon MS then that will be the down fall for MS.
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BlackRaven85 - 406 days 14 hours ago
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9.1 - Are you a developer?
No? I didn't think so. And yeah, I found your logic flawed as well. Since when does PS2 not having good online matter? Pirating is pirating. Period.
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The Lazy One - 406 days 14 hours ago
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9.2 - I don't follow your logic...
Since PS2 had no good online service, pirating was less common?
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OOG - 406 days 14 hours ago
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9.3 -
I could also counter your arguement with the fact that it is known to cost more to develope a game on the ps3 because of its learning curve etc....

so you could look at it this way.....make it only available on the ps3??? and spend a few million extra and at least a few months more....or make it on the 360 and have a few tens of thousand steal the game?????? In the end both would kind of balance out and in most cases 3rd parties usually dont develop for 1 system anymore.
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lokiroo420 - 406 days 13 hours ago
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9.4 -
The "learning curve" as you put it is not really relevant two years in, and you only pay once to allow the ps3 to possibly double your sales. The fact that the ps2 had no online makes it easier to pirate, there is no repercussions, ie no ban from sony on your account, so their is really no deterrent there, whereas MS turns its head to it. Either MS has to start laying down the law or they will lose out, Developers want their money as much as MS, and lose out more when they dont get it. When devs dont get their money they dont make games, which means we all lose out. MS is allowing this to happen, ala Napster.
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10 inane | 406 days 15 hours ago - comment has been reported as SPAM -
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lokiroo420 - 406 days 13 hours ago
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10.1 -
Again the US is not the only place where games are pirated. Games in the US arent taxed like many asian and european countries, would you pay $100 for your games or walk down the street and buy it for 10?
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anubis12 - 406 days 14 hours ago
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11 -
i bet you could take 50 random people that play 360 and tell the to pirate a game from there pc for there xbox that is not even out yet and MAYBE (MAYBE).... one person would know how....i dont know how or care because i am sure 200 leaked gears copies doesnt hinder 2 million in sales....lame
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DMasta718 - 406 days 14 hours ago
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12 - @ 9
PS2 didn't even have a real online service. It was up to publishers and third parties so what are you talking about.

Anyway, I don't see this becoming a huge problem for the 360. Sales show that its not really slowing down in software since it's still putting up good amount of numbers.
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DJ - 406 days 14 hours ago
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13 - In terms of sales? Not much.
But it'll hurt a lot in Developers' perceptions of the hardware, especially since the PS3 has absolutely no piracy issues, let alone quality issues.

If anything, it'll push developers to focus more on PS3 development, more than anything. Not abandon 360 hardware.
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ultimolu - 406 days 14 hours ago
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14 -
...Bruce?
Bruceongames?

...Wow.
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15 anubis12 | 406 days 14 hours ago - comment has been reported as off topic -
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Firstkn1ghT - 406 days 14 hours ago
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16 -
Gears 2: Over 2 million sold
Fable 2: around 1 million sold

Games easily sell over a million on the 360. Pirating doesn't effect the 360 at all.
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lokiroo420 - 406 days 13 hours ago
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16.1 -
Pirating still hurt the sales of those games, 25 million units, and a mill or two sold, you dont think that maybe a million was pirated like that would be unlikely, yeah and not many people pirate movies either.
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DJ - 406 days 13 hours ago
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16.2 - The problem with piracy is that you can't tell how many copies would
Have been sold had there been no piracy whatsoever. 10 million copies of ___ title could be sold with piracy at 20%, and none would be the wiser.
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GarandShooter - 406 days 13 hours ago
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16.3 -
So how many copies would have sold without piracy? It's still theft and nobody likes to lose, even a little. You have to put yourself into the developers shoes.

Let's say, for example that I earn $50k annually and while sitting at a bar having a couple of drinks, someone lifts $5 of mine off the bar. You think I'm going to say 'oh, it's only 1/100 of 1% of my total income, so it doesn't bother me?' Do you then think, if I find out who did it, the fact that it's such a small percentage is going to save this guy's face from an abrupt meeting with the bar top, foot rail, floor, and possibly my foot, beer bottle, or mug?

I bet everyone who says piracy is ok (and I'm not saying you said it was ok), would be the first people crying if it happened to them.
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Critical_Hit - 406 days 2 hours ago
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16.4 - "Pirating doesn't effect the 360 at all."
Publishers and developers will beg to differ. There's no telling how many copies of a game have been pirated but consider the following. Say about one hundred thousand additional copies of a million+ selling game have been pirated. At about $60 a game, that's about SIX MILLION DOLLARS LOST right there thanks to piracy (assuming all of the pirates didn't buy the official game). That's money out of the pockets of publishers, developers and Microsoft. Don't forget this is a business for publishers, developers and Microsoft and they're in it to make money not lose it. Piracy does effect the 360!
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ExcessiveGBH - 406 days 13 hours ago
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17 -
All the more reason for MS to have 360 games delivery system by downloading only (Yes ...retail market will spew) from Xbox Live servers. . Until someone figures out how pull it off the hard drive and load it into their PC to burn.
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GarandShooter - 406 days 13 hours ago
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17.1 -
I think digital download may actually cause piracy to increase, unless the price of games lowers due to a drop in distribution costs.
It will kill trade-ins and the used game market, which some poeple use to lower their gaming cost, plus the ability to lend and borrow games from friends. It seems to me the increase in restritions will correlate with an increase in piracy.
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RAF-TECH - 406 days 13 hours ago
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18 - I wish the PS3 could be modded.
the games are damn expensive.

And I make enough money!
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ReBurn - 406 days 13 hours ago
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18.1 -
It's only a matter of time. Blu-ray burners are dropping in price and there's yet to be DRM that couldn't be defeated.
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ReBurn - 406 days 13 hours ago
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19 -
There are many false assumptions around piracy that developers and manufacturers make. The biggest thing is that they assume that if it were impossible to pirate games that the people pirating them would buy them instead. That's just not true. Some might, but people don't usually pirate because they can't afford games. They pirate because they can.
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GarandShooter - 406 days 13 hours ago
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19.1 -
If I were a developer or publisher, I wouldn't care if they would all buy it or not. Some might, so that's increased revenue for me. We all want security from having our stuff stolen. Just knowing some buttcrack isn't able to use my IP for free would put a smile on my face.
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ReBurn - 406 days 11 hours ago
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19.2 -
I don't disagree. I'm wasn't even going to try to get into the right or wrong of it. People who pirate games are the lowest of the low, in my opinion. And I don't have a problem with companies trying to stop it. I'm a fan of DRM (in most cases) and I generally laugh every time Microsoft goes on a banning spree to keep the modders out of Xbox Live.
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andrewkk - 406 days 8 hours ago
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20 -
so far of the 6 people I know who have a modded Xbox, 4 have been caught.
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SprayandPreycom - 406 days 3 hours ago
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21 - YOU STOLE MY DONGLE
"In fact a game console’s main role in life is to act as an anti piracy dongle."

I really dont want to know what a DONGLE IS .... ROFLLLLLL
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Cyan8313 - 406 days ago
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22 - THEY BAN THE CONSOLE!!!
How stupid are these writers ? Do they have any information about the subject they are writing ? Or do they just make stuff up ?

Additionally 1 pirated game DOES NOT equal 1 sold game, if there wasn't piracy. MOST of the piracy stems from the people that wouldn't be able to purchase the games and hence represent no profit loss.

Up until recently burning the actual games on DVD Dual-Layers was quite complicated. You had to have the right burner and so on. Some expertise regarding computers was req. Now ofc it's easier any burner can burn DL DVD correctly.

The PC gaming market was always quite small. The excessive cost of constant upgrading. FPS problems and bugs, stemming from different hardware configurations, killed the potential casual market. You had to install it. Configure the video settings to a level that your computer could handle, novices had no clue ofc. Often there where hundreds of key-bindings... It's just too complicated for the average user.

Compare that to popping in a DVD into a console and have a learn-as-you-play tutorial for the few buttons on the contoller... It's just no comparison. The average user will have no idea how to pirate games. And will buy the good games he sees commercials for.

The statistic that 1 in 3 games makes a profit doesn't stem from piracy. It stems from the excessive number of games made and published. Normal people making a decent living won't buy more then 2 games per month. So the crappy ones like Legend or Wall-E won't sell. But because the game industry is such a growing market investors will throw money at pretty much any dev studio with a decent idea and PR guy to sell it to the investors.

It was the same with the internet boom a few years back. Investors where throwing money at anyone promising to be the next ebay or amazon.com. Most didn't make it. But some made it big. We just have to wait for the industry to realize that people don't buy just any crap they see a commercial for and in the end we will get a few good games every month.

/Rant off
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rcortesb - 406 days ago
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23 - ...
lets be serious, I wouldn't have an xbox if I couldn't download free games, and I think all my friends in my country, or more important, almost all the people in my continent (South America), think exactly the same.
It's obvious that piracy hurts a lot xbox 360 games... but make a lot more hardware sales...
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