David Hayter Critical of Some MGS Moments

Hellbringer - 529 days 21 hours ago

They should have made it so that you would pull the trigger yourself, scene goes white, then after credits you see Big boss which stopped Snake and etc etc. happens

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therealwillie - 529 days 21 hours ago

while i agree, i think there's a fairly good argument to say that hey, maybe he should flinch at pulling the trigger, after all its not a game where you do kill "thousands" your not supposed to kill anyone really.

overall, mgs was in need of some good editing, there was lots of pieces that well, just didn't need to be there. i did enjoy the game though and i would still give it 10 out of 10 for one simple reason, i will never ever forget it.... and there is hardly any game i can say that about. almost every moment was a joyride! (almost)

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Mainman - 529 days 20 hours ago

@ niall

Trust me on this, hardcore MGS fans are not happy with that ending.

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Bigrhyno - 529 days 19 hours ago

@Mainman

Was about to say the same thing :).

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hazeblaze - 529 days 19 hours ago

What hardcore fans weren't happy with the ending? I'm a hardcore fan that liked the way this game put an ending to the series... it wrapped up every thread. The internet is full of MGS fans that are happy with the ending... in fact, this is the first I'm hearing of anyone NOT happy with the ending. The wedding bits stretched a little too long, but other than that, I enjoyed the way they wrapped it up. So I'm not really sure where your info is coming from.

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morganfell - 529 days 19 hours ago

I disagree. I am about as hardcore as you can get and I was quite happy with that ending. Hayter had no problem saying anyting because he knows his tour is over. When they do next game it will focus on Big Boss after MGS3. But unlike MGS3 Hayter won't be doing the voice.

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Violater - 529 days 18 hours ago

It doesn't really matter, the game sis till awesome.
This no one can trely dispute

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Mainman - 529 days 17 hours ago

My 'hardcore fans aren't happy' argument comes from my observations at the metalgearsolid.org forums.

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Omegasyde - 529 days 17 hours ago

The true ending to me was before the credits. Everything after was trash.

After the credits I was like WTF? Who is this guy in the wheelchair and why the guy pushing him?
Why should I care? Its Zero a decrepid old man and Big Boss? Didn't his body die in a corpse?

Then I READ the MGS4 "database"
: Suppsoingly they "recreated" big Boss from "liquid snakes" body parts....?

Granted Zero, should of actually been the final Boss in my opinion instead of liquid...but the final fight was great. Then Snake lives?

Big Boss Bullsh##:
"o Naomi injected you with FOXALIVE (wtf?) and now you just die of old age. Someone how though, you still have some foxdie in you and its killing me. (wtf?) O and you EVA didn't die from a SERIOUS loss of blood it was FOXDIE (which makes no sense? since she was never at Shadow Moses so foxdie was "targeted" for her) So snake "my son" live your days out while I just die here.

Seriously I see why some reviewers gave the game a 9.9/10 because of bull$*** second ending. Kojima Effed up bad and I know more people hated the second part than liked it.

Honestly I am 100% sure Konami had Kojima write that ending.

And lets now talk about Raidens MUCH NEEDED INFORMATION. They totaly took it out of game but put some BS ending in? I have found through the data base:

Solidus Snake is really raidens adopted father, that he was abducted by the patriots and turned into a cyborg (cyber ninja version 3) and that he rescued olga's daughter sunny from Area 51.

WTF that is much needed info that needed to be in the game! Who the f*** didn't want to know why all of a sudden Raiden was some legendary badass? Why Olga's daughter is hanging out with Otacon? Why Raiden freaking jacked into the matrix and bleeds white instead of red?

/wall of text.

Also BS that they brought raiden back after having both arms gone and 22+tons of a massive ship crushing him. They should of cut that scene out or have him die there a hero!

Edit: to person below me. I played all 3 games and beat all 3. I even played as Snake in Smash Brothers. I loved the first ending. Hated the Second ending and lack of background on Raiden's situation.

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LastDance - 529 days 17 hours ago

I dont agree with hayter...Killing yourself isnt the same as killing other ppl wtf.

LOL @ the guys saying hardcore fans dont like the end...cop a load of that wicked crap. I bet the only people who didnt like the end only played 1 or 2 of the games.

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Madgunner - 529 days 17 hours ago

that ending was perfect some people are very short sighted about the end *SPOILERS AHEAD* the fact that snake dirint kill himself first of all would of not concluded the story because the convo at the end wouldnt had happen but even thats not the one of the reasons why the ending was great. the relationship between big boss and snake was very empty .... until i saw the ending, and honestly if u asked me seeing big boss die was just as sad as seeing snake died because he was the worlds greatest solider.. and his story was by far the best ever in all the series ( EXCEPT part 4 )all of the patriots have sinned and well died for it in the end it was the patriots who gave snake a world to live in.. an actual fate he can call his own. seeing big boss die , his father , the soldier that everyone fought for lied dead besides snake and at that time snake felt diffrently about him dying now that he knew the truth about everything, it wasent like zanizbar land or outer heaven... to me PERFECT ending, everyone feels that the hero NEEDS to die in order to satisfy the story, in many cases that can be said to be true , but it doesnt always have to be the case and is absurd to think so.... i could go even more deep and write a page worth of this but im gona cut this short.. point is... i am one of the most hardcore fans u'll ever meet when it comes to MGS, and yet im statisfied? so what happened there?

PS: oh and by the way .. he did HAVE A VERY short time to live... so snake DID die maybe u dirint actually get to see it, but believe it he is dead. and otacon DID STAND BY HIM... TO THE BITTER END.

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NO_PUDding - 529 days 17 hours ago

Everythign was great for me, apart from Snake being left alive. And that was Konami's hand.

He should have taken a toke of Big Boss' Cigar and then popped himself. That very well may have made the game tear worthy. And I loved the Love of the Battlefield thing, I just wish, once again Meryl and Johnny had been killed off, or atleast one was.

Zero being killed off was not sad. He took a crap mintues earlier, and it was obviously more than time for him to go. Seeing the start of the patriots end was superb though. And Big Boss rocked.

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Bigrhyno - 529 days 17 hours ago

Everything before the credits was just a perfect hollywood ending. /vomit Everything after the credits went into way too much detail about the plot and after a while I was like jesus BB just die already. The only reason it was there was to fill every little plot hole that was left open and left nothing for the viewers imagination. Three was a lot more emotional and enjoyable to watch... four just felt like he was trying to conclude everything and not try to make a really good ending.

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Winter47th - 529 days 17 hours ago

Sort'a off topic but, I'm enjoying the debate and different point of views here, since I'm not an MGSer to the core, I always like arguments over the blurry parts of the story.

For me, this is the kind'a game that'll be more appreciated by time passing, they don't make such quality as much these days.
My only grip would be the Beauty & the Beast parts, should'a been shafted, nor Akiba & Meryle's segment at the end.

Haven't checked MGS Database yet, for some reason it won't recognize my saves.

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Omegasyde - 529 days 16 hours ago

You guys do realize how big boss came back to life? Here I hope I knocked some sense into you guys:

Although badly burned, his body was much later recovered by EVA who put him back together using pieces of his cloned sons, Liquid and Solidus. When she was finished, Big Boss looked as though he had never been burned. When GW was later properly destroyed, it led the way open into JD, which in turn revealed the location of Zero. Big Boss, now fully revived, headed to find him. As Solid Snake stood in front of Big Boss's grave after having nearly attempted to kill himself, Big Boss emerged from out of the shadows with Zero, telling his son that there was no hatred between them.

Source: http://metalgear.wikia.com/...

So that "corpse" that actually burns at the end of act 2 IS BIG BOSS AFTER ALL. EVA DOESN'T DIE AT THE END OF ACT 2 EITHER(wtf?). Later I guess, who knows? A lot of people stated that EVA was guarding a "fake body" which isn't true. She really had big boss in that zip lock bag on life support. How she put him back together? So how about that second ending now that some of you have seen the light.

History: (before MGS4)
big boss "dies" Metal gear 2 (NES)
Patriots recover him make him a vegetable
Raiden and EVA steal him. ....MGS4.

HUGE PLOT HOLE.

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mistertwoturbo - 529 days 16 hours ago

*SPOILERS*
omegasyde, you have it a bit mixed up.

the real big boss was still in a comatose state which was controlled by the patriots. the meat bag guy was really solidus, it's also very obvious it's solidus because he's missing his left eye, big boss is missing his right eye.

when solid snake and otacon uploaded the foxalive virus, destroying JD and the other patriot AI, big boss awoken. EVA already put him together using liquid and solidus's body part. which explains why solidus looks like he does in the meat bag.

EVA died by the new foxdie virus that was injected into snake by drebin. the new foxdie also killed ocelot, and big boss. if you listen to the noise it makes, they all make the same sound before they die.

hope i cleared that up. also, my source is the MGS4 database. not Wikipedia which is typed by random people.

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Bigrhyno - 529 days 15 hours ago

Mistertwoturbo is right. My source? The end of the game.

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snakeater3 - 529 days 10 hours ago

if i was kojima, i would have
1. had johnny and meryl being killed in the forum while proposing to each other
2. had raiden being massacred by the frogs
3 mei ling biting a bullet from atop the missouri
4 snake shooting himself AND the player must do it.
5. otacon remains alive

no bullsh!t bigboss ending
what u think guys?

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Lew_Ijgee - 529 days 7 hours ago

Stop cowardly hiding behind these internet forums and go out and prove it. Otherwise STFU.

There is a reason he among those leading in the creation of these great games such as MGS an not you.

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Lyan - 529 days 2 hours ago

The gameplay dynamics of all MGS games has always been way above average, however the story line, plot, and story telling have been the weak points.

You can say the story was epic all day long, but if you were to take the dialog, backstory, and every scene interaction and put it on paper for nearly any literature critic to read, they would say it was an incoherent and inconsistent story. What makes the attraction and connection is gameplay and interaction. Interaction and dynamic moments in games create a connection, especially when they are placed well and done well. MGS's dynamics have always been done very well, and so people look past the incoherent and convoluted story dilemmas. Inconsistency in story telling, story arcs, and character development become less important because of the bond you develop with the current context of what your experiencing.

Its partly why there is such an emphasis on graphics in all games, b/c it is something flashy to distract people from the lack of well developed and well planned depth. Its not that MGS doesn't have depth, it has more depth than nearly any game ever created. The problem is, and has been said many times by other people, is the lack of editing. Creating a story in chunks and adding in things along the way is bound to create dilemmas in connecting it all. This creates depth out of necessity to fulfill unfinished content and adds so much that there is bound to be many loose ends which in turn require more depth to explain, vicious cycle. The core of the story, the conspiracy, espionage, and war, is good but all the peripheral elements are weak and drag.

Yes I have played all 4 MGS games and I plan to find and play snatcher.

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fusionboxer - 528 days 20 hours ago

I don't think Snake is the type to really kill people seeing as I didn't kill a soul in MGS4. If you think about it he rarely takes his enemies life unless it's completely necessary.

But then that's the cool thing about Snake. He has his own personality, but what he does is completely up to the player. David Hayter may make his snake kill countless people, but when I play as snake I spare everyone.

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Hellbringer - 529 days 20 hours ago

Yeah I got the idea, from MGS3 where you had to pull the trigger to kill The Boss. Bubble to you too.

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Gish - 529 days 19 hours ago

You said bubbles back to him but didnt bubble him. Just making sure bubble dispersment is proper :)

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ThanatosDMC - 529 days 19 hours ago

Yeah, i agree with Hellbringer... that would have been awesome.

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Hellbringer - 529 days 19 hours ago

@ Gish

Agree and bubbles are diff. things plus a lot of people have to give bubbles in order for you to actually get more bubbles.

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Polluted - 529 days 13 hours ago

There was a scene at the end of the Gungrave game for PS2 where the character had his gun pointed at someone's head and you had to pull the trigger. There was absolutely no hud telling you what to do and the game would stay at that same screen forever if you didn't press X to pull the trigger. It was very effective. Putting players in Snakes shoes so they had to end it would have been really cool.

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deeznuts - 529 days 19 hours ago

Or is Hayter still butt hurt because he's not being offered the script writing job for MGS4 movie????

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Omegasyde - 529 days 17 hours ago

Honestly F the script I think he would make a Good Solid Snake. He already has the voice down (duh).

He has similar facial features as well. He can play young snake while MR Bad A** Kurt Russel can play old snake :)

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kazuma - 529 days 1 hour ago

hell no, mgs cgi movie.

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PirateThom - 529 days 20 hours ago

Yeah, I doubt he would record the voice over for numerous games (including giving up half his pay check to get the original cast back for the Twin Snakes) and recording various additional content and going above and beyond if he wasn't 100% comitted to the series.

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BOSSMK XXIII - 529 days 20 hours ago

that I am first and foremost of a total fanboy of the series, but I must also admit that I CRINGE at quite a lot of spots in the games. The MGS series hasn't gone by without its fair share of bad writing and poor execution.

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PirateThom - 529 days 20 hours ago

Suicide is an easy way out though.

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BOSSMK XXIII - 529 days 20 hours ago

there is a very thin line between a coward and a man of honor. I believe the character was the latter, even more so after concluding in taking his life after he wiped out his blood line. THAT is courage. He didn't ....out of pure fear and lack of nerve.

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PirateThom - 529 days 19 hours ago

I know what you mean, but it doesn't matter how many people Snake has killed or what else he did, to put a gun in your mouth and pull the trigger is not something that's going to be easy for anyone.

And I have to say, I'm glad he didn't, there was one thing I wanted from this game, for Snake to be vindicated and what the end of the game implies happens (avoiding spoilers), I think that happened. Snake killing himself just doesn't seem right.

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hazeblaze - 529 days 19 hours ago

I was more upset when I thought that they'd actually let Snake die... that is not how I want to see my favorite video game hero go out. Suicide is a coward's way out anyway, there's no honor in that!

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MazzingerZ - 529 days 19 hours ago

The past MGS games showed Snake the soldier...Kojima in MGS4 wanted to show Snake the human, the son...in this way leaving Snake behind but with a more defined personality

but of course, many won't understand this until Kojima himself tell you that...did you see snake reaction when he received a soft hug from BigBoss?...it was the first time he ever experienced the love of a father...or when he hold big mamma on the Motorcycle?...the same, first time his hands could touch his mother

so not being able to commit suicide shows that snakes is just a human after all, he just did his job...or are you gonna tell me that Jack Bauer in 24 is a little girl because he hid and cried in loneliness in some episodes?

I'm a hard MGS-fan, in my mid-30's and I'm happy with the ending. Awesome. Sergio Leone couldn't have directed that better.

David Hayter is just unemployed today and frustrated because konami turned down his request of writing MGS the movie. I love him but I love Kojima and MGS even more.

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Whoooop - 529 days 19 hours ago

Agree

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Party Boy - 529 days 18 hours ago

What sane man would put a gun in his mouth for the first time,blow out his brains AND not contemplate what he's about to do? Why don't you try it,big man.It's all about being human beings.Fear,pain,sadness.Yeah, we all go through the same emotions.

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Omegasyde - 529 days 17 hours ago

Game should of ended at the damn credits.

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Omegasyde - 529 days 17 hours ago

Dude the guy had a couple things to think about after act 2.

If I knew that I would have a virus that would of killed many people, I would of not thought twice.

Its not the struggle of him trying to kill himself that bothers everyone. Its the scene after the credits, in which it seems some guy from startrek wrote.

"o snake your virus went away. Your ok now" Come on now, its a ploy to try and make a Possible SEQUEL. Next time you might see snake in a wheelchair with perhaps Raiden or some guy take order from Snake over the radio.

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MazzingerZ - 529 days 12 hours ago

So you think Snake will sell millions of copies in a comeback from a wheelchair? in a secondary roll? I respect your opinion... a cameo doesn't sound too crazy but far from call it a "comeback"

Personally, I think Kojima just wanted to give Snake his humanity back and let fans seeing him go and take a break with his buddy Otacon.

If he was just setting up eveything for another Snake game, he wouldn't have answered every single answer...he even KILLED BogBoss to make sure there's no way he can show up in a future game, he killes every nemesis or key character in Snakes saga, Vamp, Liquid, Ocelot, Zero, Naomi, Eva all of them are gone
"
Metal Ninja Raiden" is the next step in the franchises and Kojima's team has enough talent to continue the franchise perhapse with a different style...it's not like Kojima comes with all the ideas himself, most of his team has been there from the beggining and loves MGS just as much as him.

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Unreal_Liquid_Jonte - 529 days 11 hours ago

Then why don't you go and shoot yourself?
There is NO Honor in shooting yourself so dont give me that f#cking BS.

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Omegasyde - 529 days 17 hours ago

lol the staff wasn probally worried they would be out of a job! They forgot Kojima could start a Zone of the Enders 3.

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GiantEnemyCrab - 529 days 21 hours ago

No, but I bet MS paid him to say that.

At least if you ask a fishhead!

LOL

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Kleptic - 529 days 11 hours ago

who let you two idiots back in the house?...Crab, your comment would hold some weight if the 360 ever ran a game that looked even close to MGS4...

3 UE3 exclusives and Halo 3; does not an impressive console make...

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juuken - 529 days 7 hours ago

...Two idiots in a can.
Lol...MGS4 isn't coming to the 360 little children.

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DavidMacDougall - 529 days 5 hours ago

Love Metal gear but David Hayter should shut his ****ing mouth and say the lines hes being told to say and leave !

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ravinash - 529 days 5 hours ago

So he'll have an opinion like everyone.

But I would have to disagree with him....just because you have killed 100s of people does not mean you'd be able to take your own life.

If anything, because snake has been in that situation and survived is because he is a surviver. and to be that, he would want to live.

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Tmac - 529 days 21 hours ago

I didn't know retards like you could even play MGS? Learn new things every day.

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therealwillie - 529 days 21 hours ago

lol

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juuken - 529 days 20 hours ago

...PoG, you're a dumbass.
Unless you've played the game, then you have no right to speak.
Be gone foul xbot.

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PoSTedUP - 529 days 20 hours ago

- you just made my day : D

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Fanboy Slaughter - 529 days 16 hours ago

And I thought Master Queef was a pea soup can with a gun, until I heard him talk, then I was convinced that he was just a diarrhea-colored moron with a gun.

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morganfell - 529 days 16 hours ago

SPOILERS********************** *****************************

For Snake to have killed himself would be the equivalent to Kojima having ultimately screwed the character over. After everything he (Snake) had been through, after all of the betrayal, the physical, and the mental suffering, for there to have only been a quick death at the end would have been it's own kind of treachery on the part of Kojima. The character deserved better.

Snake earned his rest and not in the form of no more games but he deserves, in story line terms, to have earned his own piece of where Outer Heaven/Haven truly exists. In one's own mind. As Big Boss told him unlike the others he was truly free. That is Snake's reward for all he had sacrificed and endured. I would rather have seen Big Boss live but it was nonetheless a suitable end.

Honestly, for Hayter to be voicing these comments now is quite unprofessional and he should be somewhat ashamed. Unless there is some weird circumstance for his remarking as he did then I must say my estimation of him has dropped somewhat. Maybe he is angry he isn't being asked to write the MGS script. Well now we know why.

Ryan Payton recently remarked that Big Boss's story has a lot left to tell in it from the time immediately following MGS3. Although Hayter voiced him there, he did not do so in MGS4 and instead Richard Doyle handled that part. As far as I am concerned he should do so in the next title.

Aside from the above, I also can't figure all of these people that have nothing better to do to wait until a title has been out for a few weeks and then start wanking and attacking it, whining like a bunch of preschoolers because there was too much Jar Jar in the film. Here is the thing about the Metal Gear series. It is Kojima's world and we just live in it. Didn't like the ending? Suffer.

This bellyaching is laughable. They did the same thing with HALO3 and it is somewhat ridiculous and makes such people themselves something for the ignore button.

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Blackmoses - 529 days 19 hours ago

oh and I guess a guy running around in green armour, shooting little green, blue and red aliens that look like they 1.) jumped directly out your Saturday morning cartoons or 2.) jumped directly off of your kiddie cereal box is sure genius?!! All the while making those God awful teletubbies sounds!!!

LMAO!!!!

Seriously I've been a fan of MGS for some time and even I have to admit....I kinda wish he would have finished his self of as well. That whole walking off into the sunset deal was a little too Melo-Dramatic even for this series. Definitely not the Snake I've grown to love over the last 20 years!!!

-Black-

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