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It is illegal to sell refurb X360 as new! Also see what's inside

Consumers Alert!

Earlier this morning a fellow digger send in a nice little article to my mailbox and the title reads 299 Xbox is refurbished along with a small photo (see below). A lot of people are indeed confused about this move and while I haven't seemed the unit in person, having years of working experience in the electronic sector in my early years I think I am qualified to say a few things about refurbished electronics.

Also see what's inside the refurbished 360 (image included)

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DrWan - contributor
Published: 548 days 22 hours ago | Article | PlayStation 3 | Xbox 360 | Tech

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meepmoopmeep - 548 days 22 hours ago

1 -

it's illegal to sell it "claiming" that it's new.
if it's refurbished it has to be known that it is.

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RevN8r - 548 days 19 hours ago

1.1 - Agreed

Yeah, as long as it's sold as a refurb unit, there won't be anything illegal about selling them. I think the problem might be that people may buy this without realizing it's not a new console.

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meepmoopmeep - 548 days 18 hours ago

1.2 -

yeah, the retailer has to make it clear that it is in fact a refurb if they dont' want to face a lawsuit.

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hotshot127 - 548 days 22 hours ago

2 - oh man this is going to be heated

im just going to sit back and watch since this isn't paticulary my field of knowledge so let the games begin..........(grabs popcorn)

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DrWan - 548 days 22 hours ago

2.1 -

as long as consumers know it will be fine. I think if u r getting a ps3 or a x360 it is alot of money; especially if u r a kid without proper income. even if u r on my salary, it is alot of money; so its important ppl knows this kind of thing. i didn't mean to flame when send submitted article.

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Condoleezza Rice - 548 days 22 hours ago

3 - Heh,this applies to all Consumer Electronics

Just last year my roommate got into a small legal battle with Guitar Center over selling him a refurbished Keyboard-advertised as New,to make a long story short,he won.

So anyways,Microsoft shouldn't dare attempt to sell refurbished consoles,it will only end in them losing potential customers.

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pwnsause - 548 days 19 hours ago

3.1 -

well they have to say that they are selling you a refurb. it is legal to sell refurbished hardware, the thing is it has to be discounted from the regular price, not to mention a longer warranty,not to mention, the box or the sellers should not say that its new

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reccodog - 548 days 21 hours ago

4 - MSFT IS REALLY DOING THIS!?

This is not going to end good. And ONLY Microsoft Would do this. Selling something referbed as new is not good bis. at all! Trust me I know from past experiences.

They will probably have REFERB on the box in really microscopic lettering. LOL

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FantasyStar - 548 days 20 hours ago

4.1 - Broken 360s sent it for Repair.

The stuff they fix gotta go somewhere right? Sure people get their 360s exchanged with a refurb, but what to do with that other refurb when surplus of it is too high?

SELL THEM BACK OUT!!!!

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japwow - 548 days 21 hours ago

5 - shame

i bought a refurbished PC last month.
the PC was selling as refurbished PC.
so there is no problem. because i know the fact.

but if furbished xbox360s have been sold as new xbox360s,
it's completely evil. shame. illegal.

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Panthers - 548 days 19 hours ago

5.1 -

How else is M$ going to get rid of all that RROD baggage? Geeze!

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Real Gambler - 548 days 12 hours ago

5.2 - Refurb electronic appliance are not such a good deal...

Remember, electronic appliance, particularly PCs and Consoles are dust magnet.

Most of the times, the dust is blown away during refurb, but I've seen my fair share of PCs sent back with dust, cat hair, etc. Basically, some company simply replace the drive with another one with O.S. pre-installed, do a quick check, and send back. Not exactly good for people with allergy and quite often fans will fail later on.

Then, you also have to think that some of these appliances may have been overheated. Common example is a PC fan that stop working because of the dust. (Not all houses are like yours and pretty much dust free). If it's the power supply fan, or the case fan, before it got really stuck, everything inside was like in an oven for quite a while. Cheap thermal paste will become dust. Memory will work at over recommended temperature for weeks. Then the fan finally stop working totally. Blue screen, or RRoD happen. When sent back to factory, they replace the fan, give it a quick test and send back. What do you get if you buy it? A highly stressed and cooked electronic device that is likely ready to blow again. Quite often, other smaller fans like the one on the video cards or chipset have been running full blast for months before appliance was sent. They are already filled with dust. They are just time bomb ready to go as well. See those big heatsing in the 360? The thermal paste (or sticky) allowing heat exchange between the heatsink and the IC is already overcooked and not as efficient as it used to be. Board may be partially bent.

Even worst, it could also be a refurb from a power surge or lightning hit. Power supply was fried and replaced. Pass test, and shipped. But trust me, that motherboard also took a hit and will have a shorter life.

So, basically, stay away from refurb electronic applicances. It's not worth the small change you will save. In fact I hate sending my appliance under warranty because you don't know where the refurb you got has been. I protect my appliances with high quality surge protectors, but the console you got back may have been in the hand of a 13 years old kid who never used a surge suppressor, may have plug it in a overloaded circuit where surges abound, drop it a few time to make sure to heatsink are not snuggle anymore, and sure enough is a huge time bomb in your hand.

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PirateThom - 548 days 20 hours ago

6 -

If true:

Microsoft's sales figures are way off because that sounds to me like selling the same unit twice...

There's another potential black hole for the 360 to dump profit into.

And, finally, Microsoft won't have a gaming division, the entire operation is costing Microsoft way too much for little gain. The meagre profit Microsoft has made on a few occasions is nothing compared to the RRoD cash and what could be costly here.

AGAIN, ALL IF THIS IS TRUE.

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FantasyStar - 548 days 20 hours ago

6.1 - I have experience fixing over 100 Xbox 360s

And this story doesn't sound too far off from the truth. I did work with Play-n-trade for awhile fixing broken 360s and buying broken 360s for close to nothing ($100, $50 probably) I fix them up and sell them back out for $240 w/ warranty and upgraded work. If there's a market for broken 360s. Microsoft surely played us out for fools to milk money out of the economy in a new way.

This generation is the first one where I see aftermarket-intercoolers being marketed.- When in reality, all they do is NOTHING comparable to what you can do inside the box for considerably less.

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Covenant - 548 days 20 hours ago

7 -

It's poorly written and edited...

...and its alleged evidence spurious and circumstantial...

I mean, what's the source for that picture? Or his "digger?"

How the HELL did this get approved?

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DrWan - 548 days 19 hours ago

7.1 -

so only xboxking should be approved then? i submit things to warn fellow gamers about potential pitfall. I still remember when i bought a broken HDD, the feeling of broken stuff is no fun, and u spend so much money on it.

if it seems like things that ppl should know about, if u r picking up a 360 this weekend, and the price if funny; ask the employee if it was refurb. it will do urself some good.

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Covenant - 548 days 19 hours ago

7.2 -

Don't make the assumption that just because I'm upset at this article means I'm some kind of Xbox fanboy...anyone who reads my posts on a regular basis can tell you that.

Crappy articles like this do NOT need to be on this site, REGARDLESS of which console is being praised/criticized.

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Blasphemy - 548 days 20 hours ago

8 -

I am just wandering how these new 360s have been fixed so that they won't break again.

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beavis4play - 548 days 19 hours ago

8.1 - hey, it's microsoft....they never lie.

end sarcasm.

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ElementX - 548 days 20 hours ago

9 -

Maybe someone just took a pic of a refurb unit in stock at a particular store. It doesn't mean MS is selling them as new. Some stores get refurbs in stock when they sent items out to be fixed. Perhaps a customer bought an extended warranty from the store and they swapped out the broken unit for a new one off the shelf? So they send it in and get a refurb to sell as refurbished.

People just assume MS is selling refurbs as new, without proof other than a pic taken with a cell phone, for god's sake.

As for the "look inside the refurb" that's probably a unit someone sent in with a RROD and they received it back and wanted to check out what was changed with the new heatsinks they're installing.

This article is bogus

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hotshot127 - 548 days 20 hours ago

10 - if these are refurbished than it must be millions of them ready to be sold

....

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PantherAus - 548 days 20 hours ago

11 -

Whats your oppinion...

When new consoles are releases you normaly get the option to trade in your last gen console..

With all the shoddy xbox360's and bad rep do you think they will take them for trade in's? If you can't trust a new one who's gonna buy one second hand. To the rubbish pile i think but thats just me

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VampHuntD - 548 days 20 hours ago

12 - Wait A second

The picture has tags noting things as new or same. What is the same and how does it provide proof that the 360 is a refurb/ I'm confused here.....

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crck - 548 days 20 hours ago

12.1 - You can't tell just from looking at those pictures

But if you bought a "new" 360 and it had a manufacture date before roughly March 2k7 it should NOT have an extra heat sink in there. If it does then its been to the MS repair shop and is a refurb.

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crck - 548 days 20 hours ago

13 - Like I've been saying for months. I GOT one of these refurbs.

Nothing on the box to signify that its a refurb. But the extra heat sink was in, there were marks on the back and a new tamper seal slapped over where the old one left residue. There was also a black dot on the tamper seal under the face plate.

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beavis4play - 548 days 19 hours ago

13.1 - then you have a legitimate legal beef with ms and the retail chain that sold you a supposedly "new console".

i'd pursue action against both and notify BBB and consumer report. heck, i might even call ralph nadar. he likes taking on the big dogs.

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crck - 548 days 19 hours ago

13.2 - I got it cheap from my friend's company. So it wasnt a big deal.

I just told my friend about it to let him know that his supplier might be giving him refurbs as new. He said he would tell his boss about it.

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Lou-Cipher - 548 days 20 hours ago

14 -

I dont know if M$ is doing this, but I would not bet against it. For every person that owns a working Xbox 360 they probably have 2 broken Xbox 360s. So with all these extra (broken) consoles lying around why not sell them as new. (that way you can still half ass compete with Playstation for maybe another year.)

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AclayPS3 - 548 days 20 hours ago

15 -

There's really nothing wrong with buying refurbished electronics, but me personally, I prefer brand new electronics and a company selling a refurbished product as new shouldn't be done.

And now that I think about it, Microsoft did something similiar with the 360 in Europe because when the 360's price dropped in Europe earlier this year they started selling old 360 models with no HDMI ports as brand new.... how cheap can a company get for god's sake.... it's like Microsoft is lying to consumers or something because a refurbished item has no business being sold for brand new. If you were to go out shopping for a brand new car, would you want to buy a used car that was advertised as brand new?... I didn't think so.

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beavis4play - 548 days 19 hours ago

16 - if they put "refurbished console" on the box where it can be seen, and store clerks inform customers; then it's legal.

stupid for anyone to buy; but, the choice is the consumers.

here's a curiosity: why would ms not "refurbish" these systems in the first place and send them back to their original owners? hmmmmmmm? and if/when these break; are they refurbished again and sent to retail so they can be sold a THIRD TIME? or are they fixed and sent back to their second owner. man, i'm starting to confuse myself! and do "refurbished" consoles count towards new purchases? lots of questions.

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Tunerboy8732 - 548 days 19 hours ago

17 - They mark em at gamestop

My friend works there and he says refurbished 360's are marked on the barcode on the box.It is legal if it indicate's that its refurbished.

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VampHuntD - 546 days 22 hours ago

17.1 - So You're Saying....

That there is a little fine print mark on the box saying refurb? I would be willing to beat they would still lose a lawsuit since the refurb is tiny (if it's on the bar code) and the signs in a store are probably much bigger and saying NEW.

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PimpHandHappy - 548 days 19 hours ago

18 - lol

thats all i can say

if they even try that they might as well not launch a new xbox! PPL will not be fooled again!

it wont happen because its not legal! So

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badz149 - 548 days 19 hours ago

18.1 - it's M$

and you know what they can do around legal actions! is it even legal selling the 360 with them knowing the failure rate is so high? I will not be suprised if indeed M$ also will get away with this also!

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19 EnforcerOfTheTruth | 548 days 19 hours ago - User only got 1 bubble - Show

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ForROME - 548 days 18 hours ago

20 - Stop and Think

A This isnt proven for sure to be a refurb

B I dont know if Target, Walmart, or Best Buy would consider selling this as its not their style to sell used items and get into the haggle.

You might find this at small chains, if true, which I do not believe it to be true

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DX F3NIX - 548 days 17 hours ago

21 -

damn MS for selling refurb 360. i just hope ps3 isn't doing the same, but then again there systems are reliable.

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yanikins111 - 548 days 16 hours ago

21.1 - Cant help myself

"oh this? This is just my package. Yup. God delivered it, I signed for it. No big deal"

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PLiPhaze - 547 days 23 hours ago

21.2 - ROFL @ yanikins111

You own, bubbles!!

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tudors - 548 days 16 hours ago

22 - Who is this dude....

I used to be in electronics me did, 40 yrs man and boy...

"I haven't seemed the unit in person" LOL

"I have no idea where to start but I just know from experienced that you cannot just repackage and sell the item as new"

"it’s best to spend a bit more and probably go with the a brand new one because the number 1 reason of refurbishment for the X360 is a terminal condition commonly known as RROD"

If this is not flame I do not know what is, the RROD is the 1st thing they fix.

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Dzpool - 548 days 16 hours ago

23 - Online stores sell refurbisehed consoles

Both Newegg and tigerdirect sell refurbished units this is clearly stated in the description it is perfectly legel to sell repaired or refurbished items as long as it is clearly stated. they sell Xbox 360's along with repaired Wii's and yes Ps3 that have been repaired.

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blindfromthesun - 548 days 16 hours ago

24 -

This story is based off of the rumor M-soft is selling refurb consoles. There is a stigma of buying refurbished systems and it is illegal to sell them as new. End of story. People need to look at the K-mart and Radioshack ads rather than some unconfirmed report from Gamestop selling refurbished systems. They already sell them, but as yet, sell them sans hard drive for $220. Why would any big box retail outlets sell refurbished systems? I don't go to Best Buy to buy used/refurbished stuff as they don't sell it. It would be quite the precedent if ALL $300 assumed price drop consoles are refurbished. Nonsensical unless known used-retail and game outlets (cough Gamestop) are behind it. Also, how/why is it fashionable of late to post blogs and rumors as news? Just saying...

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apoc615 - 548 days 11 hours ago

25 - well

If it says Refurbished Unit then you know what your buying anyways,i wouldnt buy one myself considering there nearly as high as New ones.

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ShuUemura - 548 days 11 hours ago

26 - Where's all the xbox fanboy? Why aren't they posting any comments?

Power of green? Jenzo? Where are them? I remembered they like to attack other consoles and defend their so called perfect "xbox360'?

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The Gamer Zone is for members who want a more friendly and civilized discussion. This section is heavily moderated by the N4G staff, so leave your fanboyism at the door please. Members who are unable to behave in a mature and respectful manner will be temporarily or permanently restricted from posting in the Gamer Zone. Using words such as Xbots and Sony droids, or other words from the console war vocabulary, is strictly prohibited in this Zone.
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1 Kami | 548 days 19 hours ago - User only got 1 bubble - Show

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happywozere - 548 days 14 hours ago

1.1 - wot a rip

if that happened to me i would go mad and demand a new one in the packaging.

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2 EnforcerOfTheTruth | 548 days 19 hours ago - User only got 1 bubble - Show

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Bill Gates - 548 days 18 hours ago

3 - "It is illegal to sell refurb X360 as new!"

Yeah, tell that to M$ who has been doing it for over a year now....AHAHHAHAHHAHHA

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FAQS - 548 days 14 hours ago

4 -

Q:.....
A: this is hilarious! HA HA HA HA !
Q: And I still don't understand how xbots defend so much a brand that do this to them? I just can get it?
A:..........

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The Open Zone is a lightly moderated comment section which is open to all members. With enthusiastic fans eager to defend their favorite platform this place can get pretty hot.
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