DVD Forum approves 'bigger than Blu-ray' HD DVD

The DVD Forum, the international DVD standards authority, has approved a 51 GB single-sided triple-layer HD DVD disc for production. Extension to the HD DVD standard, which was submitted by Toshiba in April, received approval on 31 August 2007. Other recent developments include...

[bung tickler]

...cuz that other tard wouldnt edit his news properly. so here it is as it should be.

[TheExodus]

Déjà vu!

[ktchong]

...and this story makes that Nasim psycho's one into a "Duplicate Story".

[ShiftyLookingCow]

for that kind of abuse, its already duplicate story for me

[ktchong]

I can't see what you're saying because you have ONE bubble left! N4G automatically puts everyone with one bubble on ignore.

Your Truly,
The Roundest Peg

[nasim]

HD DVD camp has done this to fight the launch of 100 gigabyte Blue Ray disc by TDK this fall.

However bad news come with this good news for existing HD DVD owners too.

The existing HD DVD players would not be able to play the upcoming triple layered HD DVDs so existing owners would have to purchase a new HD DVD drive if they are interested on this.

**********PEOPLE report this story as duplicate since it has been posted by POSTED to hide the fact that existing HD DVD players wouldnt be able to play the triple layered disks

BTW TDK announced at CES last year that their 100gig BD would be playable on existing Blue Ray Drives...so this is again good news for BD camp but very bad news for HD DVD camp

BTW :- 100 gig Blu-ray drive was manufactured way back in 2005. It just needs an approval of SONY to get released

http://www.afterdawn.com/ne...

current HD DVD add ons wont play the 51gig disc BTW

[cuco33]

u got to stop man. u annoy everyone on here with your apparent hatred for the format that appears to be making big moves. seems like you are afraid that there's a chance your BD will go the way of betamax.

as for what you said, as usual, it's all BS. as of now no one knows if the TL51 disks will play on gen1 or gen2 players but unlike the BDA group, the Toshiba camp is smart and I think all that is needed is a simple firmware upgrade and voila, TL51 disks play on these players. note, WHO NEEDS 50GB FOR MOVIES?!?! it's a pissing contest. go and pray that sony can get it's BD50 disks manufactured better than the rumored 20% yield meaning for every 100 disks made only 20 are good while the other 80 are bad. sure yields get better with time but like i said from the get go, WHO NEEDS 50GB FOR MOVIES?!?!?!

i'm going to end there. but i'ld like you to show me how a movie needs this disk space

[Lord Anubis]

http://www.n4g.com/NewsPend...

[bung tickler]

that story is tainted by fanboy retardation. this news does deserve to be posted but in a proper manner. thats why i reposted it here. no where in the news does it say that the new disks wont work with 1st/2nd gen hd dvd players. in fact i bet that toshiba had to show that the disks would work on older players in order for them (the dvd forum) to appove it. however there is no official statement yet so i dont really know. just like none of you know. so to say for sure one way of the other is just dumb.

[Lord Anubis]

you see it does require new hardware to play triple layer discs because the wave is not strong enough to penetrate to the third layer. Even though you may not like it, you will be forced to buy a new HD-DVD player.

[Maddens Raiders]

save your breath dude. If the Round freakin' Peg approved 'it' it must be right and worthy of acceptance. You can bet that he would extend this same time of 'empathy' on a pro blu-ray story. Right. Oh, what's that? We need a new player?...so what HD-DVD, HD-DVD, HD-DVD forever!...pathetic. Just Pathetic..

Ahh, stupid ass little _bots are ridiculous -- anything they can find for a slight edge, when this does absolutely NOTHING for them at ALL..hahah. I can't wait for Halo3 day to come so they'll get the hell outta here like they did when Gears & Bioshock launched. Oh yeah.....nevermind....they'll still be here. 8D

btw - will this technology be used in the next Box launched? And if so is that Box launching in Q1 2008 or 2Q 2008?

[WilliamRLBaker]

and anubis yet again you never provide proof where is this magical proof that triple layer 51 gig hd dvd discs wont play in current hd dvd players? *and yet blu ray 100 gigers can? when they are sporting what 4-5 layers?*

Untill you provide written proof that the current crop and past crop of hd dvd players cannot play the future triple layers, then the article and Bloody is right.

[Jdash24]

one gig more doesnt do anything, and basically makes toshiba lose all adopters to date because all the players are now obsolete

[ArduousAndy]

blu-ray players that are g1 are now obsolete since they can not play some of the features that are going to be available in Pixars Cars br-dvd?

[jackdoe]

Some of the Blu-ray players may be able to get firmware updates, but yeah, that's what happens to early adopters. You get screwed over. Happened with DVD adopters as well.

[Jdash24]

you got a good point but the blu ray players can get a firmware update, while as the hd dvd players have new hardware which means you have to buy a new machine which screws all who already bought one(including the hd dvd add on for the 360)

[Daishi]

I hope everyone who owns a BR player has one that connects to the internet because then they should be fine. Those that might have skimped out and got a cheaper player will regret it sooner or later. On the other hand, I don't see how necessary 50 or 100 gigs is needed unless your talking about putting an entire season of a show on one disc. Good future promise but it's all a "wait and see" premise until they stop making normal dvds IMO.

[Bloodmask]

Now there is no reason to go with Bluray. HDDVD is cheaper to produce. And will have even more space than a Bluray disk.

HDDVD also offers more interactive features with U-control. And is available in combo disks with one side HDDVD and the other side DVD-9. Which is really a great feature bc you can play all your HDDVDs on your standard DVD players. No reason to upgrade all the players in your house at once.

[xplosneer]

That that's with three layer vs only 2 on Blu Ray, and that a 3 layered blu Ray would just stop that first point. the other two you have a point of.

[nekon]

Actually they already had quad layer blu-ray discs at 25GB per layer (100GB).. Not to mention there's been talk of both TDK and Sony having 6-8 layer discs from 200GB+. The thing is Hitachi showcased a 100GB 4 layer disc early this year and it plays on CURRENT Blu-ray players unlike this new HD-DVD disc.

[xplosneer]

I was trying to make a point of.

[4me2]

... makes disk more expensive to produce .. so 3L HD is not cheaper than 2layer BD

And for PC market 3-layer disks would make it even more expensive option.
For example compare prices of current DVD-R <Single Layer> to <Double Layer>

[MrSwede]

Where did Bloodmask go? He should stick around to defend his comment now that the storage capacity has been sorted out. "Good news for the HDDVD camp", how´s that? You like spending money on new players that can actually use the extra storage?

[synetic]

WRONG blu-ray disks are cheaper to produce

While some corporate sources claim HD DVD is "lower cost" to reproduce, a study performed by Home Media Magazine (August 5, 2007) reveals this is no longer the case. Quotes from several disc manufacturers for 25,000 units of HD DVDs and Blu-rays revealed a price differential of only 5–10 cents. (Lowest price: 90 cents versus 100 cents. Highest price: $1.45 versus $1.50.

[beavis4play]

if hd-dvd is cheaper then why do retail discs cost more than blu-ray?

[DeadIIIRed]

Something tells me that you're on Microsoft's pay (t)roll. You sound like an ignorant commercial rather than an ignorant fan boy (i.e. theMART & POG).

[power of Green]

I can hear Nasim saying

(Men in Black "BUG")Saying: OOOHHHHHH YOU IDIOTS" HD-DVD Don't matter! matter of fact HD-DVD won't even be matter!. *Space ship bug failed excape scene*.

[power of Green]

Doesn't matter what you Sony fanboys say the studios were not liking HD-DVD and its storage as much as BD, thats changed.

[power of Green]

100 gig discs will not be practical for movies dip sh*t the point is studios were dissopointed and made choices about who they woulds support in the movie industy because it was almost half as less than BD, thats the point fool its matched BD and now studios can feel good about future content B8tch.

PWNED...

[jay3]

Theres no way any game is going to need 100 GB, unless they're prompted too.

Having a 100 GB disc is kind of pointless at the moment.

That could change at any time though, this story proves that no game being developed for the PS3 right now, is impossible on 360.

...Just saying.

[Kaneda]

Blu-ray is not just for movies and games. Buy a blu-ray burner... burn backup files..

[jackdoe]

Wow. Triple layer. Lol. Blu-ray will probably come out with a triple layer too. Why do people need all that damn room. Not like movie companies are giving us incredible amounts of extras.

[ShiftyLookingCow]

There is a whole lot of 'ifs' for this to make an impact for HD DVD. The news about China adopting a format that is physically similar to HD DVD is bigger news as it might soon bring down costs of HD DVD players because of mass manufacturing.

[bung tickler]

id say they are both big news as blu-ray's only advantage over hd dvd hardware wise was its data capacity, now that has been made a non-issue. may the cheapest costing player win.

[nekon]

@ DarthNihilus

It's not physically similar.. It's technically different. While the new JPN HD players will accecpt current HD-DVDs, current HD-DVD players will now accept their discs.

@ bloody diarrhea

Check Google because I'm not one to give a lesson for free.. The difference goes much deeper then storage capacity.

[mentalboy11]

the only real difference between blu-ray and HD-DVD physically is the way they are protected. while HD-DVD still uses DVD technology protection, panasonic installed its own stronger yet thinner protection layer for blu-ray. thats why you notice blu-ray discs tend not to get scratched that easily. never seen an HD-DVD yet so i dont know about that though. i'll try to find one and test it out but i do know none of my blu ray discs have any scratches yet. this protection AFFECTS THE SIZE OF THE DISC DIRECTLY. because HD-DVD still uses the same protection technology as DVDs, its protection layer is THICKER. BECAUSE ITS THICKER, the laser is magnified at a larger size causing it to take up a slightly larger amount of space compared to its Blu Ray counterpart which then effects how much can be written and read on and off the disc.

So,
If the Protective layer of a HD Disc is thicker, Then the laser will be magnified at a larger size, as to
If the Protective layer of a HD disc is thinner, Then the laser will be magnified to a thinner size, THUS
effecting the amount of data that can be fitted into the disc.

[WilliamRLBaker]

and you obviously dont have any idea what your talking about, First off no where in the article above does it say the new triple layers wont play in past hd dvd players, and I've done GOOGLE searches and not found a single article that supports that Lie.

As well The only other difference between the 2 formats other then storage space is the Menu structuring language, and thats it.

[nekon]

@ WilliamRLBaker

lol you should save your laughter for the mirror.. Did you even read my post? They need to include a quote feature for members like you. In short TL51 discs working in g1-3 HD-DVD players is a rumor. The Google comment was in reference to the differences not the CH-DVD or TL51 support.. While it does seem it would have helped you. As for your differences comment.. Wrong again.. Did you even read the post above yours? That user while incorrect named another difference.

@ mentalboy11

I'm not doing to dissect your whole post but I'll leave you with a word.. Bandwidth.

Oh and above I meant NOT not now, but I sure you guys knew that.

[power of Green]

Lets wait for Toshiba to annouce that to be sure they havn't done something thats sensitive in working around your supposed problem?.

[Rageanitus]

read up your history fanboys.

Betamax came earlier, but could not hold as much film length time
When vhs came out .. sony had to create another version of betamax.

Hence forcing the early adopters to buy another piece of hardware.

Its funny how xbox fanboys say blu-ray is following the same path as betamax, but in fact hd-dvd is following similar paths as betamax

Btw blu-ray disc movies cost cheaper or the same to the consumer. Meaning Im pretty sure the costs have dropped down in manufacturing blu-ray discs. Plus blu-ray drives are droppping more rapidly in price (percentage wise) than the hd-dvd drives.

hd-dvd had a 6 month headstart and their sales of media are still trumped by blu-ray camp.

The only true thing going for hd-dvd is cheaper standalone players, but we are seeing the gap decreasing over the past year.

Problem is MUCH MORE electronic companies producing stand alone players than hd-dvd

The only light I see for hd-dvd is if the market were to converted to ONLY dual format players. But it just doesnt seem anymore that hd-dvd can totally push blu-ray away from the market.

Can BDA ~25 companies be totally wrong vs HD camp composing of ~5 companies.

[jackdoe]

Here's a great article about betamax:
http://www.betainfoguide.co...
Should help to clear out a lot of misconceptions.

-edit- Wow, got a disagree. Guess someone doesn't want to read?

[jaja1434]

Can a country with 1/4 the world population be wrong!
Actually I don't really care either way, I just wanted to say that. :)

Ohh just to bring up Betamax, remember Sony has lost every formate war it was fought. Though that means nothing now, just some history to consider!

[Rageanitus]

Yup read the article it was a good read.
Here are some quotes at the end the article that closely resembles hd-dvd's situations

1) Without the backing from manufacturers, there would never be as many Beta decks on the market as VHS
****
It seems that blu-ray has alot of manufacturers backing it up vs hddvd

2)RCA was able to make video recorders more affordable to a wider group of customers in a considerably short time. Eventually, when manufacturing costs dropped, RCA was able to hold the $1000 figure and make a decent profit, while Sony was forced to take a deep breath and slash prices in an effort to stay competitive.
****
blu-ray players are still much more expensive than hd-dvd yet blu-ray pressure is forcing hd-dvd to drive down their prices below their competition. Plus I have only seen blu-ray computer drives in stores, I have yet to see an hd-dvd drive.

3)RCA’s drive and ambition extended to advertising, as well. While Sony’s early enthusiasm produced some memorable campaigns, such as Count Dracula using his Sony Betamax to watch daytime shows, RCA’s marketing prowess soon kicked into high gear. All the early home VCR ads sold home video as a concept, but it was RCA who pushed their name the strongest.

***
sony is spending 100 million on advertisment alone, vs hd-dvd bribing paramount

4) The increased pressure from the VHS camp produced some strange reactions from Sony. Beginning in 1983, Sony began to flood the market with too many Beta models

***
hd-dvd is doing this 1080i > 1080i/p players > maybe 51 gb discs.
Total confusion for the misinformed. At least blu-ray is keeping it more consistant.

[Daishi]

Phenomenal read! I missed the last format war and it was great to finally know what happened. However I still have one problem. "The Sony executive smiled icily. “We think we know best.” Sony has always seemed not to care about their own customers and just brush off any nay sayers like they're idiots. I'm not saying that the any of the other companys are "kind and caring" when it comes to their customers (except Nintendo) but treating your customers like that when they are begging you to do the right thing WTF? I still own many Sony products but I really hate their ethics.

[cooke15]

well i keep on getting more reasons to go hd.. cheaper player with slightly larger disc capacity.

[xplosneer]

Now we are back at square one with both formats Stand Alone players now obsolete. GREAT.

@powerofgreen
That could be said backwards for Blu Ray specifications as well.

[heavymetal3k]

1 gig more, woohoo.

[P1MPDADDY]

Wow you really do try hard to defend the purchase of your PS3. A little too hard. I have a PS3 and a 360. And to tell you the truth besides Warhawk and the occasional Blu-Ray movie, the 360 gets all my attention. I understand all of you Sony PS3 owners have a vested interest in Blu-Ray winning. But give it a rest already. By the time one of these formats is the clear winner, Nintendo, Microsoft, and Sony will all be releasing thier next console. Dual HD movie formats and Dual HD videogame consoles is the way to go. Try this PS360 and BD-ROM/HD-DVD-ROM. Dont miss out on any high def movies or high def videogames because you are loyal to a brand. Brand Loyalty SUCKS!!!!!

Oh BTW the "Real" Raiders. The Oakland Raiders play tomorrow. We are going to whoop that Detroit Lion A$$!!!

[jaja1434]

Really who doesn't beat the Lions?

[Snukadaman]

man you was making a hell of alot of sense until you screwed it up and said the raiders are going too beat the detroit lions.....both teams have suckage beyond no doubt but we shall see...ohh by the way MY team will see you on the 14th and the 30th and we will smash that @SS both times....belive that.

[P1MPDADDY]

I agree the Lions and Raiders do suck. But I am a die hard Raider fan. Gotta go with my heart. Were going to be a lot better this year. I can feel it. And if you like the Broncos or Dolphins, last time I checked they werent in the playoffs last year either. Just Win Baby!!!!!

[Snukadaman]

Im a Diehard Charger fan dude...screw the dolphins and broncos.....i do agree that the raiders will do a little better this year...maybe 4-12 roflmao...and yea we didnt make it too the playoffs but as long as we beat the raiders every game my season is complete....thats how much of a diehard charger fan i am GOOO CHARGERRRSSSS!! see who wins tomorrow...

[ParaDise_LosT]

http://www.n4g.com/xbox360/...
http://www.n4g.com/NewsCom-...
are being posted and everyone ignores it because of what...
...a Format war?...
for who?.....Nasim?.....

Shame on you all.....how dare you call your selves gamers :|.....
we play games.....not ...umm...DvDs xD...

in the end....no matter which format wins
It won't effect the gaming industry
because if blu-ray or hd-dvd does win, MS or sony will simply take it and go on....
and the industry goes on.....
and if the certain'format' loses...(weather its HD-DVD or Blu-Ray)
what will you have lost?....an inch of pride?...
hah you think Sony cares or MS(or toshiba...lol whch ever you to count)cares if your proud of them?...
..no...
give them your money and shut up
we're the tools on the gaming industry not the formats.... :\

'news' like this makes me sick...as a GAMER...

[bung tickler]

no one is forcing you to read it. and if n4g.com didn't want this kind of news posted they wouldn't have a tech or industry news tabs now would they. seeing as both the ps3 and the 360 are game systems AND media centers this is relevant to gamers with these systems. so again no one forced you to read this.

EDIT: @ below - i wasn't trying to make him look bad, he did that all by himself. i do however feel that this news is relevant for the reason i already stated above, that being both the ps3 and the 360 are media centers as well as game systems, and myself as well as others that visit n4g.com will find this news interesting. just because you don't doesn't mean everyone else feels the same way.

also, despite how this might sound i an not trying to attack you either, so sorry if it comes off that way. if i was attacking you it would be much funnier and light hearted and i would be doing it because you had been a fanboy tard... which i dont feel you have been... yet.

[ParaDise_LosT]

my post isn't a complaint, its question...

Who do gamers care about this kind of thing?....
I mean N4G is a gaming site...right...

why post these kind of news here....all they do is spark
flame wars and it overshadows the real gaming news...
which happens very often...

why spent YOUR time trying to make Nasim look bad..
you think he cares?...the 12year old just wants attention and sadly he's getting it now....
just hurts the site imo.....but what ever floats everyones boat i guess haha...
I am the minority here :P

[mirroredderorrim]

Hm. If you think Sony dosn't care you're wrong. It's all about investments and returns. Profits and losses. You're a fool to think Sony AND Microsoft dosn't care if they succeed or not. This is an investment for both on both their/partners formats to make long term income and be the format that pushes the other out of the war for pure profit.

You don't understand much about business it seems.
Sony Corp. is betting itself on the success of the PS3, so you won't see them going anywhere anytime soon.

Microsoft can avoid to lose the console war and format war because they have billion right? Wrong. Their total worth dosn't make up for a lack of bad business.

Responsible people do not like losses for their companies, it's bad bussiness, no matter how much money you have.
Their networth means nothing if they're doing bad business, because when they look bad stocks fall and their networth goes lower.

That is why SOME companies cash out and sell off their companies before the networth crumbles.

There is too much activity in the format war, but none of that matters. Blu-Ray and HD-DVD are the main players are thats all that matters and that's all there will be till the end..

[ASSASSYN 36o]

Im going out to buy a HD DvD drive add on for my 360.

[jackdoe]

Good for you. Do you have an HDMI port or something on that 360 of yours? If not, you would be better off buying a standalone HD-DVD player. Cost will be almost the same.

[reaperxciv]

for all of us

[OmegaKulu]

question... so they need a new set a 3 layer reader now? so just how much it would cost?

[kewlkat007]

When in fact its the PRICE & FEATURES" that will win this thing.

Like I said before, you can always have more space, but is this space being taken advantage of, probably not.

HD-DVD has more bonus features and such, but the BD camp say we don't like Bonus features and Extras, all the sudden.

The funny thing is, the Blu-Ray disc has an extra 25 gigs for the standard, but what you gonna do with it? if you no like, anything EXTRA and Bonus material?

More space is great, but you think a Consumer cares for a 100 GB disk? What you gonna fill that with? 8000P movie?

While this is good for HD0DVD, I think they did more research and really worked on their Hardware more then Sony, since BD is not even finalized. How do you support something that is not finalized?

Promises/Potential/Cash?, I suppose the Sony Model. Wait it will get there. Hey we now have Upscaling DVD players that are not the same as the original players, so having this extra layer when it does com eout will not be in issue, It will just assimilate, when there is a need for 50GB movie.

Consumers don't even have HDTV's yet so a lot of this won't be needed now. I guess it's good to have.

[jackdoe]

Most consumers buy the barebones DVD's without any features so the main winning components are price and brand recognition.

[mirroredderorrim]

You're wrong about bonus features, on all counts.
Why would the superior storage format (blu-ray) not have features when it has enough room for many?

Dosn't make sense what you are saying. Part of the home media entertainment format (next gen) is to expand upon itself, taking advantage of the storage capacity along with the quality.

Look up the movie: return to the house on haunted hill.

[spammy_nooo]

im not reading ^those comments up there but ill say this:

it takes a triple layer hd-dvd to beat a dual layer blu-ray. blu-ray discs are going to 100gb(in production) later this year. 200gb will be on the way shortly. hd-dvd should just stick to whatever it is they have been sticking to. they cant win the size battle, theres just no way.

[kewlkat007]

Size does "NOT" Matter,though..

It's how you "USE" what you have, Right?..hehe

Come on, I know some peeps know what I'm talking about..haha

[jaja1434]

Well really anything beyond 50GB is worthless for movies, AT THIS POINT, unless you do a all 3 Special Edition Lord of the Rings movies on 1 disc. Which I suppose would be nifty but enh.

The only benefit would be for computers as more space is always better, but I cry when I try and comprehend how long it was take to burn a 50GB dvd let alone a 200GB one. Going to need some 100x burners fast!

Take an 8GB mp3 player, sure I bet a lot of people could fill it up but really, how many of those songs do you actually listen to? Just illustrating how more space isn't always necessary.

[Lightning Mr Bubbles]

Is this the key to winning the war? Hell why didn't Toshiba do this a long time ago? Maybe Blu ray will approve a 52 sized one.

I don't think this matters.

[blackmagic]

You're 100% right Lightning, it doesn't matter. In the end this will be nothing more than a bullet on a HD-DVD presentation somewhere.

It is true that the 51Gb disc is not supported by present players which also leads me to believe it will never be used especially since the 3 layer 45Gb discs are supported by present players. Besides, I can't think of any movies that won't fit on the 4+ hours available with the 30Gb disc... maybe the super duper platinum hardcore-extended limited director's uncut unrated version of lord of the rings that features that awesome slo-mo close-up Frodo nose-pick scene?

[nomad117]

yup thats all nothing bad nothing good i don't have to say anything bad just oh well night im going to sleep

[XxZxX]

you guys do realize blu-ray have the capability to go 100GB right?

[synetic]

tdk is working on a 200 GB blu-ray for about year and half

[freediro]

why i wont work, because reading a triple layer disc is hard as hell and there is talks that i probably wont be backwards compatable with older HD-DVD players, wouldn't that be funny, its only 1 gb more then blu-rays 50 gb, but blu-ray discs are being expiremented in having 200gb!

Basically what this is saying is we finally upgraded our technology to compete alittle more with blu0ray even though it migt not work out well for us, HAHAHAHAHAH what a joke!

[dragonZ28]

This will not make existing players obsolete. Toshiba has cinfirmed that a simple firmware update will allow all existing players to read these new discs.

http://forums.highdefdigest...

Read the above link for your evidence. Toshiba made the A1 series players work with a firmware update. This will not make existing players obsolete, it will make them better.

Blu-Ray is in trouble this Christmas. They have ran out of steam. Maybe if Sony concentrated on making some games, they could sell some more PS3 consoles this Christmas. But, I have this strong feeling that Sony will get destroyed this Christmas by the 360 due to Halo 3. You can take your Warhawk and Heavenly Sword and do whatever you want with them. Halo 3 will be the system seller. PS3 lacks any system selling games. Hell, their best game is a remake of an original Xbox game, and that is just pathetic. If the 360 continues to beat the PS3, then HD DVD has a better chance of beating Blu-Ray. Microsoft is making the 360 more affordable, and they offer an extremely large array of great games. It seems people are slowly losing faith in Blu...

Fanboys, hit the disagree. You know you hate me. Truth is, I have a PS3 with 1 game and 9 Blu-Ray movies. Man, did I get suckered or what??? I thought I bought a PS3 to play games. When I watch/have more movies for it than I do games, then I take a step back and realize I just got hosed. Why can't the rest of you see that?

[SofaKingReetodded]

and if you spent $600 on a games console to only buy one game for it then you are BEYOND STUPID and have no one to blame but yourself.

[dragonZ28]

As far as the Blu-Ray has been made in 200GB argument - stop the crap.

Both Blu-Ray discs and HD DVD discs have been made to hold 500GB each. It just matters how you write the info to the disc - not the format.

But, in the end, what really matters is that these 51GB discs will see store shelves, and all the talk from the Blu-Ray camp will end right there - talk. It will never be a reality in your home movie collection. You can drop your "Blu-Ray is superior because it has more storage capacity" argument too. Yeah, 30GB was enough. Toshiba did this for one reason and one reason only - to prove Sony's only argument meant nothing. 50GB is way too much. 51GB is way too much and then some. Stop whining and start embracing HD DVD. I promise you'll buy an HD DVD player within the next 18 months. Watch and see.

[blackmagic]

agreed.

[synetic]

bluray was made for that not hd dvd you will not see more than 51 GB ( triple layer is the limit ) unless they make a new type of hd dvd but old hd dvd players will not work ( this triple layer need new players already lol )

and no you wrong you are the one who going to buy a blu ray player in the next 18 months ( when the exclusivity of paramount ends )

hd dvd is only alive in united states , in europe it dont even exist
in my country i can only find hd dvd movies in online stores .. but blu ray u can find in any store that sell dvds

so for me hd dvd is death

[Bathyj]

So up til now you bots have been saying the size difference between HDDVD and BR doesn't matter, (hell, you said that about the difference between DVD and BR) but now because they are virtually the same all the studios are going to jump over?

You cant have it both ways.

And studios aren't as dumb as fanboys. The know everyone jumping ship and supportting both will only drag out the war and hurt them all in the long run stop HD movie adoption rates. The only reason anyone switches sides is because of massive cash payouts.

[dragonZ28]

I am not what you would call an "Xbot". I own both systems, and both formats. I choose which one I think is better. That is completely subjective.

You're right. The size difference did not matter to people who are not completely gullible and naive. Sony tried to tout their "superior" Blu-Ray disc as being "superior" due to storage capacity. Sony was trying to get the naive to buy into Blu-Ray due to more storage capacity. All Toshiba did was negate that crap. Now, Sony can not target the gullible. Sony touts "more space". Toshiba touts "better features". Now, Toshiba can do both and Sony can't do either.

Do I care about a 51 GB disc? No.

What will this do? It will sway people to buy an HD DVD and not a Blu-Ray player. Toshiba now holds all the cards until a larger Blu-Ray disc comes out, and I doubt it will. Jesus, Spider-Man 3 would cost $75 on a triple layer Blu-Ray disc, and people simply would not buy it.

The negative aspect of all this is, of course, HD DVD movies will now cost more than they currently do. I would imagine this will even out the price difference between Blu-Ray movies and HD DVD movies. However, the combo disc should go down in price due to the fact that it doesn't have to be pressed on both sides any longer. This will cut down on processes, time, and money.

Honestly, I have stopped buying Blu-Ray movies. I see it going nowhere, and lately, it has been going nowhere fast. 5,000 new Blu-Ray players were debuted this week (exaggeration), and not a single one is affordable, and not a single one is 1.1 compliant spec. Sony is missing the point - PRICE! P R I C E ! ! ! HD DVD is taking the lead in every category that matters to your average person and not Sony nutswingers. Let's face it, some of the guys on here would have bought their PS3s for $1,000 and convinced themselves it was the $hit because it had "Sony" slapped on it.

The PS3 is facing an uphill battle. The new 80GB PS3 is having massive problems with backward compatibility. Good luck selling PS3s with that, At least I'm glad I got one with the emotion engine.

HD DVD will win the war, rest assured. Sony is not doing what matters. They can churn out all the Spider-Man movies they want. They can put out every Disney movie under the sun to people who will never buy them (most PS3 owners are too old to watch Disney movies I hope). It doesn't matter about storage capacity past 25GB. It doesn't matter about how many titles you have available. It doesn't matter how many Sony loyalists will purcahse a PS3. PRICE matters. Price comes first, and the support comes second. Price gets an install base. Once the install base exists, movie studios will go exclusive to said format and end this war themselves.

PS3 owners will not choose the winner. Average people will choose the winner while not giving a crap about a PS3 or an Xbox360. Then, the studios will support these people - not gamers. Want this war to end tomorrow? Then all studios should decide to back one format. After Christmas, Blu-Ray will be Blu-balled. HD DVD will do some damage in the next few months because of PRICE and CONTENT - not just content like Blu-Ray.

Just because I don't worship Blu-Ray doesn't make me an "Xbot" - It makes me a consciencious consumer with the ability to choose and not blindly support Sony like some of the people on this site do. Of course this site has more Blu-Ray supporters. The PS3 is a Blu-Ray player, duh!. Everyone who bought one has more movies than games - they have a vested in terest in Blu-Ray and will lose some $$$ if it loses. No videogame console has a mandatory HD DVD player, so this site is not overrun by trolls - I wish I could say the same for the Blu side, but I can't.

[SofaKingReetodded]

and then looks @ his 18 PS3 games, 40 PS2 games and wonders what the hell this dragon idiot is talking about.

btw I HIGHLY doubt you even have a PS3.

[Laka]

Twin format without flipper is great news and more so with 51gb of space. I heard that only HD DVD can do twin format.

[dragonZ28]

Sony has tried to do the one-sided combo and failed. That technology will never see store shelves on a Blu-Ray disc. HD DVD has too many production andvantages over Blu-Ray.

[JokesOnYou]

so far bluray's only tech advantage has been more space

ironicly hd dvd is the one with more features

now hd dvd will soon be producing discs that have a larger capacity than current bluray discs

ironicly sonykids talk about prototypes that will be 100, 200 gb yet the current bluray discs are not using that extra space they have now, so whats the point?

other than puting a whole season of a sitcom, or a movie trilogy on one disc what significance will 100gb discs have for either camp?

ironicly no one really cares about the answer to that question because they dont realize that this is just a stat sheet move by hd dvd camp to take away bluray's space advantage, now even if bluray does "one day" produce larger capacity bluray discs most won't see the value in it because for all pratical purposes it will end up just extra space with added costs.=

JOY

[power of Green]

To the Sony camp...

Nobodies going to provide 100 gig movies idiots can't even fill the 30 gigs yet. I know this for sure hole seasons in HD will be on multible disc No movie will take 51 gigs and if it does the extra's can easily be on another disc(s).

[mikeslemonade]

I don't care if Blu-ray was 1mb and hd-dvd was 1 million GBs. I still want BD to win. I hope hd-dvd dies and all the people who bought hd-dvd to suffer and have a miserable life. MUWAHAHAHA!

[P1MPDADDY]

Is what drags this website down. It's like a child saying my toy is better than yours. Why? Because you own a PS3? I own a PS3 too. Doesnt make me a superior gamer. Doesnt mean I chose the superior high def movie format. Seeing as that I have had a chance now to experience HD videogames from both Microsoft and Sony and HD movies from both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD I feel that the only way you can go wrong is by not going dual format/console. Are any of these companies paying you to take sides? Go ahead and be loyal to a brand name. When you miss out on the movies you want, or games you want, your the one that will suffer. Anybody with half a brain, and the ability to form thier own opinion will think outside the box (PS3 Hype) and make thier own decision about what games and movies they want and what hardware they need to make this happen. So go ahead and wish that HD-DVD dies and its owners suffer because you cant deal with your own insecurities. IS this what Sonys marketing does to its fanboys? I hope all of these companies do great, because then it forces them to compete. The consumers win in the end because we get better games, better online service, better quality HD movies, more HD movie features, etc...

[beavis4play]

and i agree. i own a ps3 and like it a lot. i want to get a 360 but until this hardware failure rate is under control- i gotta wait. this is just good consumer sense.

[Foliage]

Even without reading the comments I can already imagine the hypocrites out in full force. Remember when the HD-DVD crowd wanted to make it seem like they believed size wasn't an issue... I'm guess they have all changed their minds rather quickly.

And that is why no one takes your arguments seriously.

[Dragonopolis]

Toshiba heavily subsidized their players and has spent way more money (or is lost more money) than the BD camp to keep its format alive. The only BD player thats been heavily subsidized in the BD camp is the PS3 which would have been subsidize regardless because that is the usual in the console market.

BD has been doing so well that there has been no need to do what Toshiba has done. However, since the Blu-ray camp is making more money than the HD DVD both hardware and movie sale wise they could just be waiting out till Christmas and then do to Toshiba what Toshiba tried to do to them and flood the industry with ultra cheap Blu-ray.

If I remember correctly, DVD camp was slow advertize their cheap players and always showed the best in class.

There are low cost Blu-ray players coming and just in time for the holiday season.

The fight is not over and BD is just resting for the next round and the final knockout.

[Kenshin_BATT0USAI]

I can see why blu-ray has, so much room, with it being involved with the PS3 and being used for gaming, but why they hell does hd-dvd need so much room, its not like Xbox360 uses hd-dvds for games do they?

a hd-dvd movie doesn't take more than 10gigs does it?

[bootsielon]

If HD-DVD players have no problem reading these discs, I'm sure Blu-ray players won't have a problem reading 200 GB discs. Not to mention, if HD-DVD players can get an adjustment on the size of the layers, so can Blu-ray players; in fact, the theoretical maximum for Blu-ray Layers is 33GB.

The Blu-ray group could pull off a single layered "Bigger than HD-DVD" Blu-ray disc. The max, which is 8-layers now (tested), would reach up to 264 GB. HD-DVD can't even reach that. In fact, both discs can hold 10-layers (not tested; yet), but even then Blu-ray would surpass HD-DVD by the double of space, which is 17GB versus 33GB per layer.

You ask, What is that for? TV series, a single season on one disc. In fact, a few of Spielberg's movies will come in a single disc (three in one), so I don't think studios are completely reluctant to do that.

Anyway, this announcement can only be good for consumers. More competition brings better quality. I wanted Blu-ray to win, but if Blu-ray doesn't use bigger than 50GB discs, then now I don't care who wins, as the difference is too small to matter, even though HD-DVD would have the edge.

I hope the Blu-ray group doesn't sit on its laurels. A PS3 enabled to read 200 GB discs would be excellent; especially for games!

[DJ]

Hundreds of thousands of HD-DVD owners just got flushed down the toilet. Thank god the Blu-ray Association thought of additional layers ahead of time; the only thing necessary to read quad-layer BD-ROMs is a firmware update, not an entirely new set of hardware.

[demolitionX]

no one mentioned that BDs are SCRATCH FREE. That is more important that capacity folks, can't u c!!!!!!

[Makidian]

The only reason that Toshiba has an HD-DVD player that is affordable is because it doesn't support 1080p res., or 7.1 Audio. The HD-A2 or the A3 which are the affordable players are not TrueHD. If you want a 1080p HD-DVD player you have to buy a higher end model like an A20 or XA2, and those models still don't support 7.1 Audio. Those two models are between $299-$499. So you may be getting a lower price but your are not getting a complete experience. Toshiba's highest priced player is the same price as what is now Sony's low end player and the Samsung model that was/is $425, and those models offer a complete HD experience. And the HD-DVD discs may be cheaper to produce but they are sold at a higher retail price, usuall five to ten dollars, depending on the movie. A 51GB disc is total crap, yay they got one gig over on BluRay, big deal, it's taken them this long just to do that. BD has taken the lead over HD-DVD and the format war only really exists here in America, BD is crushing HD-DVD in every other territory. And if the China thing is brought up as a something to crush BD, remember that China is one of the biggest bootlegging countries in the world, so that will end up hurting HD-DVD not helping it. If you want to talk about consoles, Sony will meet it's worldwide shipments for the year and may exceed it, Microsoft has changed their expectations two times and still missed their target. Everyone keep knocking Sony but they are doing pretty good especially for a higher priced console and I think if people would take the time to do some digging, you would find that the PS3 is selling the same amount of consoles that MS did in the same period. Here's the product page for Toshiba players if you think I am lying: www.tacp.toshiba.com/hddvd/
Have fun looking through that for those who didn't know and just remember, I told ya so.

[Shaka2K6]

LMAO.
I wont even touch this one its to easy.

[HondaSIRowner]

My @ss. Are you crazy? Who has more studio support. Which format has a wider variety of players?. BR players in the near future could have the ability to support more Gigabytes. Also, if a product is not finalized then that means more features could come. It's like when I said my SIR has 160 HP stock, but I told my friends, my goal is for 180-192 HP. Am I done with the mods? NO!!! Oh Makidian you are right about PS3's sales. In sales, PS3 is almost half of Xbox right now. And it's not even a full year yet. Give them the same amount of time like Xbox and PS3 will be there. Plus BR has the ability to do 100gb and 200gb. How the H3ll is the current HD-DVD players going to play those 51gb discs? At the end of the day BR still wins. China?? the H3ll?!?!? BOOTLEG Masters and unreliable junk. As for reliability, BR players seem to be tough just like the PS3, the HD-DVD group are the ones prolonging this format war. $150mill for 1 1/2 years exclusive. LMAO to you. STOP bashing. You are crazy!!!

[mentalboy11]

the only real difference between blu-ray and HD-DVD physically is the way they are protected. while HD-DVD still uses DVD technology protection, panasonic installed its own stronger yet thinner protection layer for blu-ray. thats why you notice blu-ray discs tend not to get scratched that easily. never seen an HD-DVD yet so i dont know about that though. i'll try to find one and test it out but i do know none of my blu ray discs have any scratches yet. this protection AFFECTS THE SIZE OF THE DISC DIRECTLY. because HD-DVD still uses the same protection technology as DVDs, its protection layer is THICKER. BECAUSE ITS THICKER, the laser is magnified at a larger size causing it to take up a slightly larger amount of space compared to its Blu Ray counterpart which then effects how much can be written and read on and off the disc.

So,
If the Protective layer of a HD Disc is thicker, Then the laser will be magnified at a larger size, as to
If the Protective layer of a HD disc is thinner, Then the laser will be magnified to a thinner size, THUS
effecting the amount of data that can be fitted into the disc.

[IRONMAN_X57]

so let me guess xbots, 51 is bigger than 100 on 1 disc, just like 9 is bigger than 25, XP

[jlemdon]

Is going to last awhile so why don't sit back laugh at Sony & Toshiba acting like kids.LOL

while I have both but I favor the HD-DVD 360 add-on since I play my 360 more currently than my PS3(for now).

[TheMART]

My d!ck is bigger then yours

nananananaaa