How Turn 10 sabotaged Forza 3 by running its mouth

Safetys-Off: "Turn 10 Studios, developer of the highly anticipated Forza Motorsport 3, has begun to foster quite an interesting reputation for themselves as time and time again the developer calls out rival racing studios with ludicrously absurd comments at demo showings and interviews. While it's certainly somewhat admirable that the studio is confident in the quality of its upcoming racer, the remarks being spewed from game director Dan Greenawalt's (and a few others) mouth are nothing short of pure and utter hyperbolic garbage."

[Raoh]

If i see one more Forza 3 blog comment not related to an actual review i'm going to scream

AAAHAAAAAAAHhhhhhh

[Sunny_D]

Meh, you know what's going to happen. The media will give it an easy pass in reviews, because it's a 360 exclusive, which will cause Turn 10 to talk even more sh!t. Then, fans will be disappointed.

GT5 will be criticized because of things it doesn't have rather than what it does deliver. No p0rn on mah car! -5 points. Pshh.

It's been confirmed that tire deformation will be in GT5, so anybody who was bragging about it in Forza 3 can shut up now.

[Maddens Raiders]

and beautifully written blog piece. Bravo.

"As a developer, you need to have a certain kind of reverence and respect for your competitors, even if they consistently outsell and outperform you. If anything, this should serve as inspiration to make your next project a labor of love that people can put up with the other guys side-to-side and say something along the lines of: “Wow, they really outdid themselves this time."

[Snoogins]

This is the unfortunate difference between the typical American and Japanese businessman. Companies such as Microsoft and Turn 10 have been known to speak big and verbally slam the competiton whereas Japanese companies tend to celebrate the successes they make and commend and respect the competition. Of course, there are exceptions to this rule.

Throughout the period of development of Forza 3 and GT5, we've seen members of the Forza dev team speaking big about their product, calling Forza 3 the definitive racing game of this and any generation and that competiive franchises like GT are "stagnant." Yamauchi has been very mum on his franchise until recently and feels grateful for the competition. The existence of Forza has been very beneficial to pushing racing franchises like GT even further. Soon Forza 3 will release and Xboxers will have a great racer to enjoy, but once GT5 releases, Turn 10 will be eating crow. The game won't need anyone speaking big for it, it will speak for itself.

[jcgamer]

not to mention that MS employee caught trolling GT5 on NeoGaf...

good luck guys...

lol :)

[cRaZyLeGs 93]

I don't think anyone listened to their comments and took them seriously. I was quite disappointed about their attitude towards their rivals, they aren't acting 'professional'. They won't win over the GT fans with the comments they have made.

[DSI]

You were doing so well and then in the end you went fanboy. That's too bad. I agree Japanese developers do maintain a sense of respect for their competition. And in the west, they do also, they just talk more in the west as they also do in europe. But, this is a cultural difference, therefore you can't really use it as a comparison. Gamers in the west like shooters while gamers in Japan like RPG, neither should be put down because of what they do as a culture.

The concept and or thought of GT5 coming out is well overdue and I personally thought the game should have release over a year ago, seeing the release of GTHD then GTP(40.00) now they are saying 2010. So obviously if forza has done nothing else, is keeps making GT5 go back to the drawing board. I tell you what, if GT5 is not simply spectacular, if will be a fail in my book due the all the false starts and delays.

If Turn-10 wants to brag about their product, why should they be allowed to do so without being ridiculed by the likes of a bunch of fanboys. You guys brag and talk smack all the time but your talking smack should be accepted. Sound like a double standard to me.

[The Lazy One]

When he says years ahead of everything on the market, he means ON THE MARKET. Not will be on the market in a half a year.

Forza 3 as a simulator is quite advanced largely in part because most simulators just aren't popular in the main stream and don't justify a budget anywhere near forza's (same with GT, but, again, it's not on the market yet).

[Death]

Other than being a touch of a bigot, you do know Kojima-San took a couple swipes at the Xbox in Metal Gear don't you? Last I seen he was a Japanese developer. You are also forgetting the heavy barrage of BS Kutaragi-San was slinging prior to and after the Xbox 360 launch. While I appreciate your broad generalization of a couple nations of people, I have to also admit they aren't quite accurate.

-Death

[jib]

T10 sabotaged forza3 how exactly? they're still going to sell millions regardless

whether they said what they've said or not doesn't change what the game is

[Karum]

So tell me, what was the original release date for GT5 that ended up getting delayed?

It's ok, I know you don't have an actual answer because the game has never actually been delayed but I'd definitely like to hear your attempt at an answer.

Honestly all these retarded journalists writing about how GT5 is now delayed until 2010 and users posting the same crap has started to become annoying.

@Death & others - Snoogins did acknowledge that there were exceptions to the rule, he didn't say ALL Japanese developers/businessmen don't do anything disrespectful.

[Arnon]

Why do so many care? The only people who are actually complaining are people who will most likely not buy the game, or even take a second glance at it.

In fact, I'm about 90% sure that when the game comes out, sells decently, and receives some good scores, that the majority of the people on here will find some way to tell and convince everyone that the game is bad.

[Cenobia]

GT5 never had a release date, so it was never delayed. The fact that you think GT5 should have been released last year is insignificant. It wasn't done then and it isn't done now. I assume they'll release it when they're done making it, but maybe that's just speculation on my part.

@Death

Kojima didn't take any swipes at the xbox in MGS4. What are you referring to? The disc space was a PS1 joke, and the PS3 controller was product placement.

If you want an example of an Asian developer douche bag, Itagaki is just waiting to be singled out.

[DeepInterludium]

It has nothing to do with differences in culture.

You saw recently how Infinity Ward was talking about how people needed to buy Uncharted 2. They didn't have to run their mouth of because they're secure with their own game.

Turn 10 just seems like a jealous studio who knows that they can't match the competition so they have to lie, deceive, and scream at the top of their lungs like a child whining for attention.

[DSI]

You are right, so let's just say to this point GT5 is simply vaporware. GTHD is GT5 in an earlier stage, GTP is a paid demo of GT5 in a more advanced stage than GTHD. And had Forza not come out GT5 would probably already be out, but as I said earlier Forza keep making GT go back to the drawing board. (i.e damage)

Say what you will, but GT5 was been in development way too long.

Hell this game has been in development since 2004 and it's almost 2010 now. http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

Any day now I guess.

"Itagaki is just waiting to be singled out" is this because he rebelled against the darkside?

[Snoogins]

So now I'm a fanboy and a bigot?

@DSi - I kept my statement objective and based on the information present. Turn 10 claims to have the definitive racer and makes their opinion quite obvious. However, with the slew of recently released information on GT5 to have come from TGS, it is clear GT5 will be a beast. I even gave Forza the respect it deserves, which is more than Turn 10 does for Gran Turismo. If anything, you are a fanboy for even considering I am and when GT5 releases, it will prove itself.

@Death - I said that there are exceptions to the rule, but Turn 10 has dug itself into the stereotypical loud American who boasts and takes cheap shots at the competition. Yamauchi has expressed his respect for his competition. As proof of an exception to the rule, Tomonobu Itigaki is arrogant and makes rude comments toward Hideki Kamiya and the creator of Tekken, both rivals of Itigaki's NG and the DOA franchises. Kojima's jokes in MGS4 were targetting TECHNOLOGY (DVD-9), not Microsoft itself.

[cmrbe]

The difference is those guys are professional devs and we are just fans on a social gaming site.

As for GT5 delayed because of Froza. Don't be stupid. PD released the demo at gamescom to see the reaction of gamers and journalist. Most weren't impressed and wanted a better damage modeling system hence why they pushed it back. It has nothing to do with Forza. PD never look over their shoulders like Turn 10 does.

PD only cares about perfection. How long it take is irrevelant. The only thing PS fans know is that once GT5 releases its the best racing game ever bar none. Thats what i want.

[Snoogins]

Do any of you understand the phrase "EXCEPTION TO THE RULE"??? NOT ALL American developers are arrogant douche bags just as not all Japanese are humble. Infinity Ward and Bungie are good examples of exceptions to the rule, just as Itigaki is a raving fanboy who slams his competition. However, there is a culural difference that is undisputeable between the two.

As DSi brought up, there is no reason a developer shouldn't be proud of the hard work they put into their product, however, confidence is not an excuse to harshly criticize the competition. Forza wouldn't be where it is today without having Gran Turismo to aspire to dominate. Gran Turismo wouldn't be polishing GT5 as amazingly as they are without the accomplishment that is Forza 3. Yamauchi recognizes this and expresses his gratitude and acknowledgement that it is good for the industry. However, Turn 10 is too busy bragging and slamming the competition, saying it is "stagnant" and a thing of the past.

[andron]

Turn 10 is a victim of being a MS showpiece for the 360. MS needs to market Forza 3 aggressively and make much hype before it releases.

I'm sure Forza 3 will be a great racing sim, but the constant marketing PR from Turn 10 is a bit off putting some.

They also directly invited comparisons to GT with many of their own claims. I'm sure MS loves the controversies this creates among fanboys, they love hype negative or positive doesn't really matter...

[Cenobia]

I don't think that GT5 "went back to the drawing board" because of Forza. The damage was more of a feature that fans wanted, and Forza wasn't the first game with car damage.

I can appreciate the competition. Other games have had damage and inside the car view (which I love), contributing to GT5 getting those features, but I think you're giving too much credit to Forza alone. I think it deserves some, but to insinuate that GT5 is scared of Forza, or that it is waiting for Forza to be released is a bit crazy.

[BattleAxe]

I think we have a new HAZE in the making....

[iKillSwitch]

I just cant get enough of this Forza and Turn10 stories. LOL. I just laugh when I read a title with either 1. Grow some BAlls Turn10.

[solidjun5]

I'm leaving before the brush fire turns wild enough for Smokey the bear.

[arsenal55]

yeah.. turn 10 sucks.. cant make good games.. oh well we have polyphony to do that

[PirateThom]

Firstly, let me say, Forza 3 won't be a bad game, far from it.

However, I get the feeling Turn 10 paniced a bit with the rumours of Gran Turismo 5 being unveiled the following day at E3 and the 2009 release rumours. They know GT is a monster, this isn't even about consoles, it's about flagship racing titles, so they needed to make it appear than they were on the same level by presenting the game in a way that didn't benefit them once the demo came out.

They ran their mouths to get the article time on sites, while GT5 turned out to be nowhere to be seen bar a trailer with no news.

Then, Polyphony Digital rather quietly unveil GT5 at TGS in a more restrained fashion and the internet explodes with news about GT. Forza 3 had a demo, and absolutely no one cares because of a list of GT specs and a few hands on reports.

Any wonder Turn 10 went for it at E3?

They had no choice.

They blinked first, while Polyphony Digital get 5 months of unrushed polish time on their game and all the hype. I lost a lot of respect for Turn 10 after E3, but, I regained it when I realised there was no other way they could have sold the game.

If you disagree, don't just click "disagree", I would like some discussion on this.

[KenAdamsNSA]

Very well said. The game feels rushed from the demo, and although I understand the desire to usurp GT5 from the throne, Turn 10 fails to understand that on a side-by-side checklist, Polyphony has them beat in nearly every single regard.

Cars? GT5.
Graphics? GT5 (THIS IS NOT DEBATABLE, PEOPLE).
In-car view? GT5.

The list goes on, and on, and on. Forza 3 is not a bad game, but it is suffering at the hands of its creators.

[meepmoopmeep]

that could be the reason, who knows

[DonCorneo]

and t10 are pricks for saying that.

but the most important issue here is t10 lied and mislead potential buyers with half-truth claims about the game. check out their own forums.

the game does not look good. the in-game car graphics are low-res. then, there are the bullshots that nowhere represent what you get. haven't you seen the damage modeling for it? it's nowhere near dirt 2 and shift.

finally, bashing the competition is unprofesional, especially if you can't back it up with facts.

just answer this question: how is flopza 3 the definitive racer?

[FordGTGuy]

Physics? Forza
Customization? Forza
Online? Forza

@DonCorneo

STHU you most likely have not even touched the demo with comments like that.

I still don't understand most PS3 fanboys obsession with graphics make a game. Graphics keep your attention for maybe a week solid gameplay holds it for months and years.

[ultimolu]

Well said. That's what I think happened.

But then again, this still doesn't excuse them for being assholes in the first place.

And Thom, this is N4G. There's never a legitimate discussion around here! People slam disagrees for things they can't argue! :o

[dreamcast]

"Physics? Forza"

Have you played the demo? I don't see why anyone would brag about the Forza 3 physics.

"Customization? Forza
Online? Forza"

Forza 2 had customization and online but still wasn't considered the "definitive" racer of this gen... I don't see how Forza 3 will be any different.

People who only own a 360 will get a lot out of Forza 3. People who only own a PS3 will also get a lot out of GT5. I doubt a lot of the people bickering here have both consoles. I'd like to get both because of Forza's livery editor, but I'll most likely wait for GT5 since there are too many games coming out this fall as it is.

@below: I've played the Forza demo and GT5P, and I don't see how Forza trumps GT physics in any way. If you would could actually explain to me how they're better instead of just telling me they are, I might be inclined to believe you.

[FordGTGuy]

Forza 3's physics are much improved over Forza 2 and feel very realistic as shown from the demo(although I don't expect people who have never driven a car to know what it feels like). Forza 3's engine eats up alot of the Xbox 360's power and balancing the physics and graphics while keeping 60 fps is what causes the 8 cars on track and the lower detailed car models.

Forza Motorsport 2 managed to survive through many exclusive and multiplaform racing games and is still popular to this day.

It amazes me how everyone lacks the sight to see that every game has its flaws and advantages. Forza just so happens to have a better physics engine and online features while GT5 has more cars and better graphics. They will both be great games and I will be buying both so shut the hell up and stop being a fanboy loser.

@Tinted Eyes

Gran Turismo has never focused on physics while Forza has always been about and makes physics their top priority. If Gran Turismo was running a taxing or great physics engine they wouldn't have had to go through multiple engines already like previously stated. Gran Turismo can make a 1080p 60fps racer with more cars on track and better graphics because they aren't running a heavily taxing physics engine.

@Karum

This is Polyphonys first online Gran Turismo I think they will do a good job but this is Forza's 3rd game with online and have had time to experiment and add onto the experience I think Gran Turismo will have a good online system but I doubt we will see anything like the mass game mode modifier with ability to make specific teams and create specific game modes or a storefront.

I like how i'm getting disagrees when I said GT5 will straight up be a great game.

[The Lazy One]

they did most of their interviews after GT5 was confirmed for 2010. Why would they panic about a 2009 release date if they already knew it wasn't a 2002 release?

[Tinted Eyes]

No one knows if it has the better physics engine, because Gt hasn't come out yet is not finished.

[Da One]

they should have just been humble about it and let the game speak for it's self, granted Forza 3 is gonna be great i feel like after Turn 10 running off out the mouth it won't live up to what they promised..... which is a shame i always love to see people live up to the hype they produce

Edit:

Also you can please everybody, Forza 3 seems like a great game, you should let your own opinion do the judging if the games looks like how you thought it should then that's all that matters

[Karum]

Sorry mate but you can't sit there and claim physics and online whenever you've not actually had any hands on with both games to make that judgement call.

Customisation you might get although we're still not 100% sure what customisation will exist in GT5 but F3 will probably take that award from what I've seen and heard.

[cmrbe]

Very insecure like how they are matching PS3 price drop per price drop.

Its shows how little confidence they have in their product and how insecure they are of PD that they had to resort to belittling the comp.

They are only digging their grave by pitting it against GT let alone every other racing game in existence. Really dumb move because now everyone will compare Froza to every other racing games best aspects.

This is a lesson for Turn 10. If you are going to be super arrogant and say your racing game is the best racing game ever "Definitive". Makes sure it at least has the best graphics that can beat a two year old GT demo and have better damage modeling than Grid. To claim definitive means absolute. Froza is far far from absolute.

Perhaps you are right but i still think it would have been better for them to just push these amazing features they are claiming instead of saying its the greatest ever. Let people see this for themselves if they are that confident. They had a choice in this regard.

I don't agree though this is the only way for them to sell more copies. I think this whole fiasco will only hurt Froza sales because the expectations they have set is so high that no matter how good a game they produce is it will not meet fans expectations. We have already seen alot of fans say this on their fourm. Froza fans and the media expected definitive. All they have seen from the demo is a game that looks worse than GT5P and average damage that Grid beats easily. Not very definitive.

[Greywulf]

Forza is fun for what it is. Its not better than GT in many ways. F3 isn't anymore definitive than F2 was. So Forza1 has been defnitive. forza 2 is more definitive, and F3 is the definitivest?

I love how you just say "online!" GT5p is online, as are many racing games. Plus you race friends for free. It has cool online options, but not enough to separate it from F2.

F3 is a 2.5 rush job, with the same magic carpet physics as the previous games with unrealistic accidents and crashes that Turn10 highlights themselves as realistic.

as a real car enthusiast...

I want car porn from my Game, GT delivers that in detail that Turn10 can only lie about. I also want the game to feel real when I accelerate/brake/handle. I also want to sit back and enjoy some more carporn when im done in the replays, zooming in on all the details. I want to see how fast I am compared to others.

GT Delivers on all those fronts, plus gives everyone a chance to use their own vehicle in the game and customize it.

I could care less about painting a livery, its cool. But it has nothing to do with car enthusiasm. People aren't off to paint their names on the side of their car, they are after paint jobs\colors that mean something.

Even with lower detailed car models, Turn10 still cant get more than 8 cars on a road. lol.. intense battles i bet.

[pippoppow]

I believe MS to be obsessed with whatever Sony does. I'm sure MS was afraid GT5 might drop this winter so they pressured Turn 10 to release. I do not think that it is a coincidence that MS usually has a title to rival a PS3 release. It may be the reason why the few MS exclusives are so short and lack depth. MS just wants to counter what Sony does even if it is at the expense of quality.

Turn 10 is getting what they deserve just like how MS gets what they deserve with negative press regarding hardware build quality.. Maybe this will be a lesson to other Devs. Leave the naive boisterous arrogance at the door.

[callahan09]

"Physics? Forza
Customization? Forza
Online? Forza"

About physics, I see no reason to believe Forza will be better. I was just playing around with the Forza 3 demo for the thousandth time (it's so much fun!), and the physics are all over the place. Especially with the roll-over. Also, the cars definitely don't skid out when you take a turn too fast like they would in real life, and like they do in GT5. GT5 is just the harder game, and that's because the physics are more realistically simulated. In Forza, the physics are a lot more forgiving. And you can bounce off the walls just as easily in one as you can in the other, for those who like to call GT bumper cars. Both games are unrealistic in that department.

About customization, we won't know until we know more about GT5. We know you can customize your cars internal AND external components. We just don't know to what extent there will be livery editing features.

About online, well, Forza is only for 8 players, GT5 is for 16. GT5 also has public lobbies, private rooms, share photos & replays (including youtube upload), voice chat, what have you. Not sure what you think Forza has that GT5 won't have, except for perhaps an online auction house. But that's one feature for Forza. GT5 has some features not available in Forza, too. Plus we don't know the final feature set of GT5 yet. So declaring any of these categories a win for Forza 3 right now just doesn't make sense. There's simply no evidence to support it.

[Arnon]

"Also, the cars definitely don't skid out when you take a turn too fast like they would in real life, and like they do in GT5."

Yes, they most certainly do. I haven't played a good racing sim in a while, and it showed. My car was spinning out like no other because I was making too sharp of turns.

"Plus we don't know the final feature set of GT5 yet."

They had like two articles of GT5's features, bud.

[callahan09]

Yeah, but the game is still 6 months out and those features are clearly not final. Those lists don't even mention NASCAR or WRC, but those features are clearly somewhere in the game as evidenced by the trailer. So we can't take those lists as "complete."

About the spinning out / skidding thing, well, I play a lot of racing games, so ... I don't really know. Forza is just easier, and more forgiving. I was using the gas pretty liberally and the brakes pretty conservatively and still couldn't skid out. But in Gran Turismo 5 Prologue, I was skidding out more realistically and thus more frequently when I applied gas/brakes at the same relative frequencies.

[Arnon]

There's a few different modes you can miss however, in the demo. I played it through the first time and thought it was easy. I changed some stuff around, and found it to be a bit more difficult. I'm also sure that the features you see that allow you to change the way the next race is played will be enhanced in the final version.

[DonCorneo]

and listen to the sighs and cries of disappointment from xbots

LMAO!!1!

bots, stop bashing your own (and this year's last) exclusive

[napoleon_ist]

cool. 8)

[ipwnall]

And Turn10 won't stfu. Shows each of the console's sides.

[eagle21]

360 is on a decline and MS is VERY insecure these days. :)

[iistuii]

What are you on. On the decline ? did you see the sales of the latest Halo. Can you imagine the sales of Forza 3. My god your so blinkered.

[DJ Pillz 317]

360 is sure on the decline with games next year like
Halo Reach
Crackdown 2
Fable III
Alan Wake
Splinter Cell Conviction
Mass Effect 2
Project Natal

[dreamcast]

Yeah, I'm sure MS is trembling in their boots. Halo ODST only sold like 2 million it's first day.

@dDJ Pillz 317
Natal isn't a game, it's a joke.

[Erotic Sheep]

With all the respect but dont expect Halo sales with Forza..

[DJ Pillz 317]

Forza 2 sold millions, why wouldn't Forza 3 with an even bigger install base?

[PirateThom]

Forza 2 sold 2.6m and was bundled with every single 360 in Europe for about 6 months.

Forza 3 will do 3m tops.

[Erotic Sheep]

Install base doesn't mean much pillz, despite the 360 having a bigger install base than the PS3, GT5:P still sold more than Forza 2 ..

[cheapndirty]

Do you guys really think you know if MS is really in a decline because of this? Where is your proof? Detailed proof? Not some blog or your vague understanding of forecasting these things.

[JonnyBigBoss]

They're just making people not like them as a developer. Seriously, I wish I didn't shake their hands at E3. They are on the bottom of the barrel for me now.

[FordGTGuy]

Because a bunch of bloggers took their quotes out of context to get hits on their website? That is a very sad reason to say that about a developer.

@KenAdamsNSA

WRONG

Actually

"Nothing on the Market is Within Years of Forza 3"

This is the real quote

"I play a lot of racing games, including PC racing games and I have not seen anything that is even within years of what we’re delivering here."

He was talking about past games not GT5.

"We've all heard of Forza's attention to detail when it comes to physics and "impressive" calculations for the hardcore car junkies, but have any of us actually seen, used, or taken advantage of them? I know that I sure as hell haven't."

Everytime you play Forza Motorsport you take advantage of the physics engine........

You can't compare a Sunday drive in your car to a video game. They are simulators but will never be able to compare to actually driving a real car.

[KenAdamsNSA]

I'm not exactly sure that "out of context" is accurate. The quotes are all very within the context of the article. These are things that you just don't say when you're obviously being outpaced by the competition.

We've all heard of Forza's attention to detail when it comes to physics and "impressive" calculations for the hardcore car junkies, but have any of us actually seen, used, or taken advantage of them? I know that I sure as hell haven't.

You can have the most technically amazing game in the world, but if I feel like I'm traveling at a speed inversely proportional to what the speedometer says, it's all for naught. I could really care less if the game has the best physics engine on the planet if it feels like I'm driving a Tonka truck around because of the poor sense of speed and underwhelming audio/visuals.

The Forza franchise has always been hailed as the most "realistic" driving simulator there is. I'm not a huge car fanatic, but I know that when I hop into my BMW 323i, it's fun to drive. I know that when I go over the speed limit, it's exhilarating. If a game (which is supposed to be all about fun and excitement) cannot manage to capture that same feeling, then it's not even remotely close to being a real driving simulator. Physics be damned.

[xoxideu]

And they should be emailed to turned 10 yrs old and Dan.

[FordGTGuy]

you know any other Microsoft developers we can talk crap about?

Long Live Sony Developers They Are Gods In The Eyes Of Children. You know most developers including Kojima would be a very sad panda if they saw most of the comments you guys post.

[PirateThom]

Microsoft only have two other developers, both of which are becoming notorious for stretching the truth.

Even if Lionhead are amazing.

[Snoogins]

There is no disputing the existance of idiot fanboys from all the different persuasions of gaming. However, this is not about those fanboys, it is about the unprofessionalism and excessive hyperbole of developers such as Turn 10. It's one thing to be confident in your product and another to be arrogant and harshly criticizing the competition for the sake of making their own product look more impressive in comparison than it really is. Don't get me wrong, Forza 3 will be the best of the series and an impressive sim, but GT5 is shaping up to be the more impressive package and Yamauchi is letting the game speak for itself. Turn 10 need to spend less time boasting and more time working toward what they claim to have accomplished.

[FordGTGuy]

Harshly criticized Gran Turismo.

"I play a lot of racing games, including PC racing games and I have not seen anything that is even within years of what we’re delivering here."

He mentioned pc games he had played not games coming out in the future.

Actually Dan Greenawalt is known for previous statements where he has said that he and his team were huge Gran Turismo guys and the game inspired them to create Forza Motorsport.

Microsoft Game Studios have quite a few inhouse developers:
# 343 Industries
# BigPark
# Lionhead Studios
# Rare Ltd.
# Turn 10 Studios
# Xbox Live Productions
# Wingnut Interactive

And 2nd Party:

* Artoon: Blinx series, Blue Dragon.
* Bungie: Halo series, Marathon series, Myth series.
* Epic Games: Gears of War series, Shadow Complex.
* feelplus Inc.: Lost Odyssey, Ninety-Nine Nights II.
* Gastronaut Studios: Gel: Set & Match, Small Arms.
* Mistwalker: Blue Dragon, Lost Odyssey.
* NinjaBee: A Kingdom for Keflings, Cloning Clyde, Dash of Destruction.
* Ruffian Games: Crackdown 2.
* Sarbakan: Unannounced XBLA Game
* Twisted Pixel: 'Splosion Man, The Maw.

[Snoogins]

As you requested:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/new...

[free3sixty]

nope.. you can look at the complete list on the offical forums..

very bad try to bash ipwnall.. you fail hard.

While my example is a pure fact.

[Tinted Eyes]

GT brings out the Fear in Xbox fanboys

Funny to watch.

[ultimolu]

Cry for me, cry!

[ApocalypseShadow]

there is no excuse for what they did.not only for the arrogance,but the bait and switch to sell the game.also,turn-10 represents microsoft poorly and they lack decorum.

i posted this in the other thread and this is how it all started:
http://www.n4g.com/up/Actio...

microsoft claimed they had a better graphics card.and the forza team claimed they had a better graphics engine.both are total lies that have lead them to where they are now with gamers.they could lie all day to ps3 fans,but when you lie to your own fanbase who love racing,they have LOST ALL THE RESPECT THEY DESERVE.

no one deserves respect for lying.you deserve respect for humility and hard work.polyphony's hard word and work ethic has lead to a community that supports them.they say nothing.just back it up with their results.the results is an awsome driving game.

microsoft's whole structure is baiting and switching.with commercials and now with games.they are losers in my book.the halo commercials(halo odst/halo wars) are nothing like the game.milo and the natal commercial was nothing like reality.and the fast one turn-10 is pulling is a great example of a disgusting company that deserves no gaming dollars from the gaming community.

[mastiffchild]

While I haven't studied the wider use of tactics like Greenawalr's and T10's among MS devs I do think what they started at E3 and have xcontinued ever since is very poor and not needed in any way.

The thing is once they said all the "definitive" stuff and the "PD dropped the ball" stuff at E3 it kinda coloured everything they said since then. Had they not made their position clear with those E3 statements then new ones like the "nothing on the marklet within years of F3" might have been seen in a different light-but when they cme from a company heel bent on telling us their racer is the definitive one how are we meant to think they mean it?

The repetitive reinforcement Greenawalt used at E3 with "definitive" being used over and ver again was, to me at least, disappointing and, really, just very unlikely to be true. I like Forza and thought F2 was a biger step forwards than most other gamers too but there was nothing there to suggest the series as shaping up to blow away all the competition this gen and the missing features in F3 list make being "definitive" impossible, imo.

I think dynamic, track and tyre effecting weather and day/night cycles are both a necessity for any game wishing to call itself a definitive racer this gen-without them what's the point in all the choices for your tyres, changing downforce for different conditions etc-as it is you'll just use the same set up for each track every time you race on them which wouldn't happen in real life and really isn't good enough for a racer with the pretentions stated vy T10 and Dan.

There's plenty of incidents where I feel they've gone a little far with their downplaying the competition(who, in fairness, in PD's case probably are responsible for the existence of Forza as a game at all)and of bigging themselves up well beyond the possible successes of their game and it's feature set.

F3, like it's series brothers will make the series better in most ways and as it's already a good game that can only mean some great racing fun for 360 owners-but unless they stop with the arrogant 'tood I will be one 360 owner who won't be biting this time round even though I don't doubt the game will be just as, if not even more, polished and enjoyable than F2 was. To me it's as simple as not wishin to reward people for behaving like toss pots-games are expensive enugh without making me feel like a dolt for helping line the pockets of Dan and Co when they've behaved in a way that, if they were a mate of mine, would mean I wouldn't bother with them for some time!

It's sad as I know the game will be great and even as a GT fan I found all the Forza games nearly as enjoyable n their own different way(people seem to forget that the games don't hitorically even aim for the exact same thing with Forza always being more accessible and a touch more arcadey while GT offers more driving depth with more sim pretentions)so, like when I wouldn't buy a PS3 til Sony made up for the arrogance at launch(the "this gen starts when WE say" and the "two jobs" BS inparticular got my goat)I hope Dan and T10 turn off the silly, dial it in and make it possible for gamers like me to enjoy their wares without feeling we're funding a bunch of immature braggarts.

Hey, if it doesn't bother you and you feel everything's fair in love, war and videogame promotion then that's just fine-we all have our own views and it just happens that mine is T10 and Dan have gone a little too far to get my dollars this time. I just hope they stop it, sort it out and start behaving with the decorum their output says they ought-then I'd happily, as with my PS3 when Sony humbled themselves a little, jump into the buying camp again!

Don't people feel the behaviour just doesn't show a lot of class? That's my point-T10 male good games so why the need to badmouth or act like God's gift to gaming? F3 would easily have spoken for itself and, to me, they just made it's job that much harder by raising people's expectations unreasonably high AND offending a few others.

[El Nino]

I commented on this same guy in another thread.
He really is an idiot, just let your game do the talking, its not hard.

@above, completely agree!

[djfullshred]

If your gonna talk the talk, you better really be sure you have the best game ever. Anything less will then be a disappointment.

Volition did some trash talking about GTA4 right before releasing Saints Row 2. Now I think SR2 is a solid offering, but it seems pretty funny that they went out of their way to bash a superior game that broke sales records. It just made them look foolish.

[Majinzo]

I dont like racing games but GT5... It just looks like im driving the real thing & feels like it too. This is probably why i will never like GT. If i want to play an arcade style game i'll play Forza 3. Both games might be good but ones just in a class of its own. GT5 ftw F3 is just another driving game to me. GT takes TOO MUCH SKILL for driving noobs like myself.

[Death2494]

It's pretty freaking simple, folks.
If you own a 360, then buy Forza Motorsport 3.
If you own a Ps3, then buy Gran Turismo 5.
It's all about personal perference when it comes down to it.
Me personally, Gran Turismo is used by ACTUAL race drivers to simulate the type of car they drive. I don't know about anyone at Turn-10, but Yamauchi has a trophy for placing the best lap time in a 4hr endurance race driving a mercedez racing car. He also help design the Nissan GT-R. This guy has actual racing experience under his belt and also car designing.
The only people who would have to choose, are those who own both systems. If you only own one or the other, don't comment on a product that you're not going to be buying anyway.

When i owned my 360, Forza Motorsport 2 to was pretty fun for me. Forza Motorsport 3 is a solid racing game title and there's nothing that comes close on the 360. I definitely recommend anyone who only has a 360, to pick up this games if they're racing fans.

If I were Turn-10, i'd boast the fact that there's no better offering ON THE XBOX360.

[popup]

Greed really will be the death of us all.

[spektical]

couldnt agree anymore. They lost respect by being loud mouths when PD was more wise in letting the game speak for itself.

Turn 10 talks the talk but can not in any way, even with a cane, walk the walk.

[iamgoatman]

Yet another blogger spouting sh*t to get a few extra hits. It's pitiful.

[GameScrubs]

Halo is about to be released

bash
bash
bash
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The game is gold!!!!

Forza is about to be released

bash
bash
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bash

This site is all about negativity and stupidity. You guys want Turn10 to be humble, yet you sit here like a bunch of jack@sses passing judgement on them. Hypocrite much?

Who cares if they say stuff you don't consider humble? So what if they said they are better than the competition?

This arguments are pointless and moot, but doesn't stop n4g to crucify anything not Sony related.

[Tripl3seis]

thats why they are getting what they deserved.

[1nOnly]

"If i see one more Forza 3 blog comment not related to an actual review i'm going to scream "

I was just thinking the same thing. Matter of fact this site is starting to destroy my hype!! I'm starting to notice things i never cared about and for each article I read my mind start going "maybe i'll just wait 6 months for Gt5.." but then i remember that 6months is a VERY long time

[Noah]

Man Turn10 and M$ will say anything to get people to buy "Fartza 3"

[ajay_solidsnake]

i was going through comments on the site,

' mike ' wrote...
" sorry you cant handle the truth fa*got.. go have fun getting an rrod playing the sh*tty "racing sim" known as Flopza 3 "

Flopza 3 !!! LOLOLOL

[glennc]

what does this have to do with sony idiots? this is an xbox article. why is it i can barely find a single xbox owner on xbox article anymore. it is rife with PS3 fanbabies trolling over every xbox article.

what is it about the PS3 that makes people act like small children? is it because they can't understand how people will put up with sh!tty hardware quality to play the games they want. is it because they don't accept other peoples opinions like religious nutjobs. next i'll have some PS3 idiots knocking on my door trying to convert me to PS3ism.

[riceandbeans]

Flamebait = traffic. People don't want logical arguments, they just want flamebait articles to make themselves feel good about whatever insecurities they have about a piece of hardware that plays video games. My opinion of the users on this site goes down more and more every day. Problem is, this place does generate good traffic for my site so I've gotta come here...

[riceandbeans]

Being confident in your game and telling about the best quality's is nothing new. Honestly it's just taking a bunch of quotes and twisting them. People go crazy and applaud Sony when they talk smack about "wanting to work more for a console"... not the exact words but eh... and loading up CG trailers and bullshots as "real" gameplay but if anything MS does anything like that, all hell breaks loose.

I smell bias in this article and biased, flamebait articles are the only ones that make headlines on this site to make the puppets here dance and bring in the traffic. Want hits for your website? Be a jackass.

[KenAdamsNSA]

There's not a very fine line between confidence and unwarranted boasting, but I guess you need it spelled out for you.

Every quote I used in the article was quoted VERBATIM from the X360A interview, with enough context surrounding it to make sure that it appeared unblemished from its original state. This isn't a matter of Turn 10 beating its chest in public, which would've been perfectly reasonable considering the fact that Forza is (SHOCKER!) a quality game that many will enjoy. However, where the line gets crossed is when you step out on the E3 showroom floor and say garbage like: "We are the definitive racing experience this console generation," and "I have not seen anything that is even within years of what we’re delivering here."

If you're looking for bias, you're not going to find it anywhere but from the people who MADE the game and those who are PAYING for the game to be made. Full disclosure: I only own an Xbox 360 right now, and I love it to death. Flamebait is blatant spin or slander aimed at starting a ruckus with little to no substance. I'm not going to boast about my writing, but I will say that this article is something that brings up a number of legitimate points that will (hopefully) make Turn 10 realize that by building hype for their own game they are only setting themselves up for failure. It's kind of like giving yourself a nickname; you just don't do it. It's bad practice, and makes you look like an idiot.

So, really, please. Stop all this "fanboy this, bias that" garbage and take the article at face value. It's not meant to be read into all that much, but just to inspire some thought into those who get sucked into the marketing propaganda behind big-name exclusives without considering the alternatives and what they've managed to accomplish.

Gran Turismo 5 will surely be a great game. Prologue was really fun, and Polyphony knows what they're doing. Forza will appeal to many people as well, but it's worth noting that sometimes developers need a reality check. Better to call out these people than to let them get away with what is basically a public shouting match.

[Rmagnus]

what's is the big deal about Forza3 & GT5, its really simple. If you are a gamer, if you are a gamer who likes racing sim, if you are a gamer who likes racing sim and only owns a xbox buy Forza3. f you are a gamer, if you are a gamer who likes racing sim, if you are a gamer who likes racing sim and only owns a Ps3 buy GT5. f you are a gamer, if you are a gamer who likes racing sim, if you are a gamer who likes racing sim and owns a xbox & PS3 buy Forza3 AND GT5.

So what's the problem here?

[W S K]

...and for a console racer they´re simulating A LOT!
but saying that they´re running out of things to simulate is stupid.
there are ALWAYS some things you could add.
for example:
Weather,
better Damage (bursting tyres, overheating engines or brakes)
active aerodynamics...

right now they´re (turn 10) doing their best to dislike them.

the Forza games are great...no doubt about it
and in my eyes FM3 can compete even with PC simulations (though netcar PRO and I-racing go some steps further)
but all this bragging they do lately is already just going on my nerves.

EDIT:
but this article is just bashing forza.
he´s coming up with arguments that are simply not true! (jaggies, cartoon like gfx, no sense of speed...LOL)
nice try....better luck next time!