1000°

Tech Focus: MLAA heads for 360 and PC

The PS3 may lose one of its graphical advantages over the Xbox 360, with a team working on implementing a version of Sony’s MLAA anti-aliasing technique seen in such games as God of War 3 and Killzone 3 on Microsoft’s console – and they claim that they’ve “raised the quality bar considerably” over other versions.

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gamesindustry.biz
Convas4712d ago

Excellent news! Hopefully, we start hearing about more titles that take advantage of these technique.

I hear that Battlefield 3 for Xbox 360 will be using FXAA. Interesting stuff indeed!

SillySundae4712d ago ShowReplies(12)
NewMonday4712d ago (Edited 4712d ago )

would like to see it, how much resource dose it take on the 360, how much would be left?

gamingdroid4712d ago (Edited 4712d ago )

They indicated a 2.47ms time compared to Sony's 3-4 ms (on five SPUs) which should give you an indication of resources needed, but more specific information would be nice.

I also would like to see why this is an issue. It's a freaken jagged line, that is already smoothed out as is. Can you even tell the difference?

marison4712d ago

They could and should use the Xenon GPU, unless some CPU resources area idle. With the MEMEXPORT feature the GPU could write on RAM and eat that again.

I see this as a very possible and useful bullet point on game engines.

Ju4712d ago (Edited 4712d ago )

This is using the 360's GPU (read the article). Not possible with the 360s CPU. It has been implemented before using ATIs chips on the PC running shaders. This is most likely a newer (better) implementation.

Arksine4712d ago (Edited 4712d ago )

Because it runs on the GPU it needs to be faster. Running MLAA on the CPU allows the GPU to render the next frame in parallel, whereas a GPU implementation must render then postprocess before the next frame can be rendered.

I'm a bit skeptical of some of their claims, because ATI's implementation of MLAA isn't very good. IIRC there was a Star Wars game that used a similar type of AA for the 360, and while it was ok, it wasn't on par with MLAA.

Pixel_Pusher4712d ago (Edited 4712d ago )

Yeah sorry but until I see proof of a game on the 360 that looks the same or better than GOW3 on the PS3 that's the day I'll concede. Until then it's nothing but hype.

SilentNegotiator4712d ago (Edited 4712d ago )

I'll believe it when I see it (on 360, I mean, not PC). Without the integration of CPU with GPU, I don't think the 360 has the power to use MLAA in a significant way, like PS3 with the massive GOW3 and Kz3.

With PC, I suppose it would make sense if you can effectively emulate higher MSAA without sacrificing as much power.

pixelsword4712d ago

Hey, I thought MLAA sucked, so why is this big news or good news?

Because it was on the...?

Brosy4712d ago (Edited 4712d ago )

The 360 can use MLAA as well as a few other lighting tricks that surpass the PS3. Until I see cross game chat and Viva pinata running on a PS3 I wont be impressed by it. PS3 doesnt have enough general purpose processing to run the a.i. on a game like Viva Pinata let along do cross game chat. Atleast the PS3 has enough fans in other countries outside the US to keep it moderately competitive, otherwise folks would take the obviously better built machine the 360.

BTW for all who dont know a.i. cant be run on the Cells SPEs it can only be run by the Cells PPU.

MaxXAttaxX4712d ago (Edited 4712d ago )

'"Until I see cross game chat and Viva pinata running on a PS3 I wont be impressed by it. PS3 doesnt have enough general purpose processing to run the a.i. on a game like Viva Pinata let along do cross game chat."'

You serious? LMFAO! Hahaha :D
Best joke I've seen here on N4G in a while lol

iagainsti1204712d ago

Brosy is an ignorant fool who dosen't know that he is talking about
1- "The 360 can use MLAA as well as a few other lighting tricks that surpass the PS3."
This part about the MLAA is true but if the game does not use the Cell for lighting then yes you are right but if the lighting is done on the cell then you are wrong as lighting is so much better when written for the Cell"

2- "PS3 doesnt have enough general purpose processing to run the a.i. on a game like Viva Pinata let along do cross game chat. Atleast the PS3 has enough fans in other countries outside the US to keep it moderately competitive, otherwise folks would take the obviously better built machine the 360."
Really? AI is up to the developer it runs just fine on 1ppu core the rest of this is just Face Plam.

3- "BTW for all who dont know a.i. cant be run on the Cells SPEs it can only be run by the Cells PPU."
Well where did you hear this the E3? source pls or im wait im just going to Face Palm this too i dont have time for you anymore.

RememberThe3574712d ago

Whether it blows our minds or not, the fact that they're experimenting with it and trying out new ways of AA is good news. The more people try new things the more solutions we find to prevalent issues.

Instead of being skeptical and negative how about being happy that developers are trying new things.

AAACE54711d ago

Console architecture is designed differently than PC's! PC is designed to do many different things and has to be powerful because other things are running while you are doing whatever.

Consoles are designed to focus on specific task without all the extra crap PC's do!

Consoles have custom hardware! So while the components seem similar to what you already recognize, you forget that each console maker got their CPU and GPU custom made to perform a certain way! Otherwise the consoles would have been cheaper because we would be getting the same thing off the shelf as PC gamers.

Judgment will be reserved for a later date!

sobekflakmonkey4711d ago

Brosy needs to GTFO.

@Brosy

Wow...I have never read such a ridiculous comment before...I'm sorry but games like Killzone 2 and 3 have AMAZING A.I., but you probably wouldn't know...would you? you know...being that you most likely haven't even touched a PS3...

+ Show (11) more repliesLast reply 4711d ago
r1sh124712d ago

Ive said it before:

The hardware will be hitting its max output some time soon, the software will need to improve is techniques to get more from it.
This could be one way (If it works), but its probably possible

Hayabusa 1174712d ago

I would like to point out that PS3's MLAA was also done through software. It was possible on PS3 because it has 3 SPUs but MLAA is software, not hardware.

When you see games that look better than it's precedessors or competition it's primary because of the techniques the graphics programmers use. It's not like the developers slowly turn the "awesome graphics" nob up over time :p

Ness-Psi4712d ago

@Hayabusa117

The Awesome graphics knob! it should implemeted in all PC's lol.

Gray-Fox-Type04712d ago (Edited 4712d ago )

this is great news , Xbox has much graphical capabilities and dominates for multiplatform reasons, but this new technique could rise the bar of the Xbox 360 exclusives and perhaps reach PS3 exlusives :D this articles makes it seem it well go beyond we will see how devs use this.

zinkabass4712d ago Show
BrutallyBlunt4712d ago

zinkabass, still standing by everything you say?

I have a Playstation 3 and a XBOX360, does that mean I am a 3-10 year old or does my age fluctuate pending on which system I am currently using?

You would think after 5 or 6 years these trolls would finally just give up.

M-A-R-S-H-A-L-L4712d ago

Someone has been misinformed and haven't done their research at all.

randomwiz4712d ago

Only one problem - you're using the gpu which is probably already pushed to the max when playing the game. If you're going to use the gpu, you're sacrifice pixel pushing power.

firemassacre4712d ago

gray fox

you cant be serious

Redgehammer4712d ago

Zinkabass, my father would have said you must talk out of your butt, because your mouth knows better.
I have 100 friends on my friends list, and the youngest is 10 (my son) and the oldest is 54 (13 years older than me). Your comments just have the distinct ring of bitter generalizations. Why do you even comment in a 360 article?

fr0sty4712d ago

Gray Fox, MLAA isn't the only thing that makes PS3 exclusives look better. Uncharted has never used it, for instance. Also, being that the GPU is what is handling this, it ties it up before it can render the next frame as well, so there is a performance hit vs. on PS3 where the CPU is able to do it while the GPU keeps on chugging along. Typically PS3 games are not CPU bound, so there are SPU's the can be freed up to do things like this with a minimal impact on performance.

strickers4712d ago

You actually believe that AA is the difference between PS3 exclusives and 360 ones?
It's not.

bunfighterii4711d ago

Now all 360 needs is exclusives to utilise the technique...

+ Show (7) more repliesLast reply 4711d ago
4712d ago Replies(9)
Crazyglues4712d ago (Edited 4712d ago )

Actually I'm a PS3 fan, but I think this is good news for Gamers.. Why?

It's good to see Microsoft raising the bar, competition is what makes the game companies try harder... -So if more companies start using this then they will make better games for 360 and PS3.. instead of ugly ports..

-and it means better games which is always good no matter what you play on.. We all want, just really good games..

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digoutyoursoul84712d ago

well said young man, well said.

sobekflakmonkey4711d ago (Edited 4711d ago )

Agreed.

Competition pushes the industry, it's an extremely important part of the gaming industry itself.

xAlmostPro4712d ago

This is awesome news.. but and im not trolling when i say this it doesn't fix the disc space issue -_-

you can make it look as pretty as you want but without the storage it's gonna be either really short or on multiple discs.. MD' isn't that much of an issue but it can be annoying..

anyways im excited to see what they do with this :)

bozebo4712d ago (Edited 4712d ago )

True.
MD is an issue if the game needs to be open world though.

JsonHenry4712d ago

My HD5870 already did this I thought?

Liquid_Ocelot4712d ago

Great news!!
Can't hate on this, it's always great to see that we keep moving forward. Great news for our Xbox brothers indeed. Rejoice!

Brosy4712d ago

NathanExplosion I cant help your ignorance as well as any of the other sony fanboys on this site, all I can do is try to educate you. And I think thats a useless endeavor.

+ Show (8) more repliesLast reply 4711d ago
THC CELL4712d ago

U mean exclusives will look better on xbox that ps3, hm.............. Lol yea sure they will, sony will laugh there ass off at that one.. I garantee bf3 will be the worst in the consoles.

The Meerkat4712d ago

Can we all quote you on that one?

UltimateIdiot9114712d ago

I'll believe it when I see it until then it's just all mumble jumbo words.

WhiteLightning4712d ago (Edited 4712d ago )

Agreed...

We've been lied to before by Microsoft, I'm not falling for it again....."Theres hardcore games coming to Kinect", "Core gamers LOVE Kinect", "Core gamers are our main focus". Over and over again they say the same things and now they expect us to believe that they have done this for core gamers after yesterday in that article they said casual gamers were their main focus.

Not being fooled again

As you said....I'll beleive it when I see it.

kneon4712d ago

This isn't coming from Microsoft, it's from some graphics researchers. Microsoft had some involvement but they don't own it. The code is available under a BSD license which means anyone can use it.

So while it will benefit the XBox it may equally benefit PC, Wii U and even the PS3 as it's a more efficient way to implement MLAA.

UltimateIdiot9114712d ago

I do understand that it's coming from graphic researchers but again, there have been many researchers who claim many things but fail to come up with substantial results.

I don't doubt they are working on something of this sort but I don't know if it's as great as they say. It's dealing with graphics here and that requires us to look at it first. So while it may look good in their eyes, in reality, it could look meh.

MOTY4712d ago (Edited 4712d ago )

@ WhiteLightning

"Theres hardcore games coming to Kinect"

- Ryse - CORE
- Fable - CORE
- Child of Eden - CORE
- Haunt - CORE
- Star Wars - CORE
- Rise of Nightmares - CORE

Kinect implemented games

- Mass Effect 3
- Ghost Recon
- Halo CE Anniversary
- EA 2012 Sports Titles
- Forza 4

Doesn't look like MS lied.

"Core gamers LOVE Kinect"

I'm a core gamer and I love Kinect. Can't wait to play some of those listed core games as well as use my Kinect for games like ME3, Forza 4 and Ghost Recon.

MS didn't Lie again.

"Core gamers are our main focus"

XBOX 360 has a CORE library that far surpasses the Casual library. There are more games coming out each year on the XBOX360 that are core games than casual. If 3rd party support for Kinect games count as MS focusing on Casual, then 3rd party support for Core games also means that MS is focusing on Core as well.

Gears 3
Forza 4
The Whitcher 2
Halo CE Anniversary
CoD Timed exclusive DLC
The largest library of Indie and Arcade games

Seems to be a rather large focus. 1st and 3rd party support.

MS didn't lie again.

I fail to see where MS were lying.

I don't agree with you.

callahan094712d ago

@MOTY:
"- Ryse - CORE
- Fable - CORE
- Child of Eden - CORE
- Haunt - CORE
- Star Wars - CORE
- Rise of Nightmares - CORE "

So I take it that "CORE" to you is based entirely on theme?

fr0sty4712d ago (Edited 4712d ago )

um, half of those games are either on rails or only use kinect for non-gameplay purposes (forza 4's car view mode, ghost recon's weapon mod mode, neither are used while actually playing the game). then there's others that use nothing other than kinect's mic, which is a feature that is far from exclusive to kinect. all modern systems have a mic and can do voice recognition. hell, the n64 was doing voice recognition back in the day, so did dreamcast with seaman.

The only compelling use of kinect so far IN GAME that isn't another arcade on rails experience is forza's head tracking, but even GT5 had that.

4712d ago
bozebo4712d ago (Edited 4712d ago )

"there's massive lag"

^ this, is why there can be no core kinect games.

+ Show (4) more repliesLast reply 4712d ago
TimeSkipLuffy4712d ago

I don't care! Just wanna play good games. There is not that much difference between those two consoles anyway. It's not like MS has NES and PS has GameCube graphics.

Anon19744712d ago ShowReplies(1)
falout4712d ago

I agree..

This place with ppl like darkride always leave me scratching my head wonder if I got a ps3 knock off or something. They always make it seem as if the ps3 is leaps and abounds ahead of 360 graphics like if the ps3 is some super pc rig and the 360 is the original xbox.

Darkride cry all you want but every game you mentioned looks great be a gamer and stop with all this ms hat you spew on every 360 article. My goodness! You act as if ms raped your mom had you and never paid child support.

gamingdroid4712d ago (Edited 4712d ago )

I kind of agree with this. It's not like the PS3 is some graphical leap above anything else out there. In fact, the graphics is so similar to the Xbox 360 it is plain ridiculous. You want great looking games, go to PC and you will get full 1080p in all it's glory.

If you just want to game, then even the Wii will do!

pixelsword4712d ago

@ falout Darkride didn't say that any PS3 game looked like a high end PC rig...

A few other guys said it though, and I think I can trust the source...

http://www.gamespot.com/for...

starchild4712d ago

I completely agree with this.

I play on PC, PS3, and 360, and it's crazy how close the graphics are on PS3 and 360.

I have been playing the Uncharted 3 beta and I honestly think the Gears of War 3 beta looked a bit better. Overall, though, the best looking games on both consoles are at a similar level of graphics.

If you want a decent leap above that, you have to get a gaming PC.

falout4712d ago (Edited 4712d ago )

@pixlesword

He didn't say it out right in here but he sure as he'll acts like it is a high end pc rig in 99.9% of his posts.

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 4712d ago
MASTER_RAIDEN4712d ago

AGREE! i first clicked on the article because i was wondering just what the hell MLAA was..then i see that it has a thing or two to do with graphics, and 160 comments from about 100 sweaty fanboys trying to downplay this achievement. get real guys..ps3s graphics are better than 360s. NOT by leaps n bounds, but its visuals are Superior in most ways. whatever upgrades the 360s visuals get due to MLAA will probably be very slight and more of the same. no need to get all defensive.

kudakadere4712d ago

If only they still put more investment into hardcore games as they used to.

Show all comments (222)
150°

Microsoft to Add Copilot AI to Video Games

Microsoft recently revealed its plans to incorporate Copilot directly into video games, with Minecraft being the first showcased example.

Read Full Story >>
xpgained.co.uk
Fishy Fingers2d ago (Edited 2d ago )

F*** AI

"Hey Copilot, what's a good meme to prove I dislike AI".... https://giphy.com/clips/sou...

Einhander19722d ago

Two trillion dollar company that just can't wait to put as many people possible out of work as fast as possible.

It feels like every single thing they do is making gaming worse and destroying the industry.

2d ago
2d ago
2d ago
darthv722d ago

....you know it takes people to program the AI.... right? It isnt like it is sentient. We haven't reach skynet level of situation or anywhere close to the matrix just yet.

That's next Thursday.

Einhander19721d 19h ago (Edited 1d 19h ago )

It takes a people to program the AI then that AI is used for who knows how many games eliminating countless jobs which only grows as AI is used for more and more game creation functions.

What you're saying is so ridiculously short sighted and truly larking any kind of understanding and foresight.

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 1d 19h ago
CaptainFaisal2d ago

Why all the hate? Im actually excited about this! Always wanted this kind of immersion, and an AI companion with me all the time helping me out knowing the status of my skills/inventory/progress and giving me tips on the best approach or how to craft something specific is game changing for the industry.

Hate all you want about AI, but this is just the start and I can see the potential already. You wont be complaining in the next 5-10 years about this, but rather complain if a game hasn’t implemented it.

MrDead2d ago

Yes we can't wait for the work of others to be used without the need to pay them so that MS can profit even more from the people they fire.

I_am_Batman2d ago (Edited 2d ago )

There is no chance I'd ever use something like this, especially if it's not part of the core game design, but a layer on top of it. It's way too much handholding. Many games already feel like busy work, because they don't let the player figure things out on their own. Having a real-time interactive guide defeats the purpose of playing the game in the first place in my opinion.

If this were to become the standard like you predict, we'll see more and more video games get away with bad design, because people will just be used to ask for help from the AI companion anyway.

Number1TailzFan2d ago

Well Nintendo don't need this with some of their games these days, with invincible characters, items, easy bosses etc.. they do the hand holding built in

helicoptergirl2d ago

Takes "hand holding" in games to a whole new level.

BlackDoomAx1d 5h ago

Because human nature xD Almost every new technology had these kind of comments.

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 1d 5h ago
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70°

Activision team is opening a new game studio in Poland 'Elsewhere Entertainment' to build new AAA IP

Microsoft's Activision subsidiary announced today that it is opening a new game development studio to take advantage of the huge talent pool growing in Poland. It'll be the second Activision studio based in the region, joining Infinity Ward Krakow, although this studio is, in fact, not working on Call of Duty.

Read Full Story >>
windowscentral.com
Psychonaut856d ago

They’re not working on Call of Duty? Give it time.

380°

Microsoft's quest for short-term $$$ is doing long-term damage to Windows, Surface, Xbox, and beyond

Microsoft is pushing for no "red line" for what games could come to PlayStation, and it all revolves around Satya Nadella and CFO Amy Hood's plans to increase every department's margins.

Read Full Story >>
windowscentral.com
Brazz8d ago

"The plan to move Xbox games to other platforms is codenamed "Latitude" internally, and I know there's debate and unease at Microsoft about whether or not this is a good idea. More upcoming Microsoft-owned games slated for PlayStation are already being developed. At least for now, they're potentially obvious games you'd most likely expect. And yes, while it's true Microsoft is a prolific publisher on PlayStation already, it has typically revolved around specific franchises like Minecraft. From what I've heard, Microsoft is pushing for no "red line" for what games could come to PlayStation, and it all revolves around Satya Nadella and CFO Amy Hood's mandate to increase every department's margins. "

Yeah, they are going to kill Xbox hardware.

Xeofate8d ago

"Yeah, they are going to kill Xbox hardware."

It's for the best.

Quit stringing along xbox fans and screwing over PlayStation owners.

crazyCoconuts8d ago

Take good care of those Xboxes if you have 'em ...

outsider16248d ago

An Xbox game on a Playstation. Never in my years of gaming did i ever thought this was gonna happen.

jznrpg7d ago

It is dying anyway so doesn’t make much of a difference

VersusDMC7d ago

No way can they get rid of the hardware as probably 90% of game pass subscribers are hardware users.

Highly doubtful those users will move to PC or Cloud to subscribe there and the competition (Sony and Nin) will never have gamepass on their system.

If they want to keep the current subscribers, they need to keep releasing new hardware.

PSPSA7d ago

I'm not convinced, why then announce that they're actually working on the next-generation Xbox with “the largest technical leap”, and also looking into handhelds now?

Rols7d ago

Not like MS don’t drop things a hot potato if it is not performing. Look at MS history to see products or platforms discontinued. Xbox is not a charity for MS, it needs to make money and the ABK was the last roll of the dice for Xbox.

purple1017d ago

Xbox hardware team members have been incorporated into surface team

This perhaps shows they are not expecting big things from Xbox as a separate entity

Abear217d ago

Seems like they are planning to win next gen. All the acquisitions were this generation and nobody except Xbox fans expect games from the acquisitions any time soon.

I’m sure Microsoft can afford to lose money on the short term, pretty sure they do risk assessment when acquiring many companies and spending billions, they’ll be fine lol.

+ Show (5) more repliesLast reply 7d ago
gold_drake8d ago

i think it will kill off the xbox brand. windows will be fine.

but there is and would be a chance that xbox might be killed off in the future. if they fail to make the money they put in. imo.

S2Killinit8d ago

They wont kill it, but they will go fully PC while keeping xbox as a brand, and go multiplatform for the most part. They will also work tirelessly to diminish console gaming’s importance.

PRIMORDUS8d ago

It would be best if Xbox goes the way of Sega, just make and publish games. I know I myself will not support them at all with buying games from them, you all can. 🙃

ChasterMies8d ago

The Xbox brand will live for the games. I don’t expect Microsoft to entirely drop out of gaming hardware. They make Surface tablets and laptops. They’ll make Xbox branded hardware for those that want it.

shadowT8d ago

"Microsoft is pushing for no "red line" for what games could come to PlayStation"

Forza and Starfield next?

Skuletor8d ago

Starfield would be no surprise and there's the rumor that it will come to Playstation after the Shattered Space DLC, Forza (along with Halo and Gears of War) I find less likely but I wouldn't be surprised if they eventually end up on PlayStation too, especially if Xbox give up on hardware and go the Sega route.

shinoff21838d ago

Not to worried about forza. I'd rather see others like what inxile and obsidian are working on. Starfield sounds like it needs more time in the oven so let it cook first imo. If starfield and it's a small if does release on ps it'll be in the fall around the time for dlc or right at the dlc and come packaged with it.

-Foxtrot8d ago

In the words of Phil Spencer when he was talking about Nintendo last year

“It's just taking a long time for Microsoft to see that their future exists off of their own hardware"

S2Killinit8d ago

Yup. MS are a cancer to console gaming.

Aloymetal8d ago

100%!!
I wonder what happened to that dude that was always here posting those court articles with cartoons about MS spending all those billions in studios. He suddenly disappeared, I guess he doesn't like bad news when the green brand is in trouble. No new articles from him as of late...

PRIMORDUS8d ago

Yup, and it's only going to keep spreading.

Outside_ofthe_Box8d ago

Phil Spencer's words always comes back to bite him lol

8d ago Replies(7)
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