The actor who brings Red XIII to life talks about his take on the character, the duality of Red XIII and how he changes in FINAL FANTASY VII REBIRTH.
A former Square Enix executive has shed light on sales expectations and budget realities of the Final Fantasy series.
Yea, I love how so many on here did simple math like 3mill x $70 = they made a profit.
When that’s not even close to how this works.
They take the years spent and equate the ROI to the sum % of stock prices during the years of development to do a baseline ROI and then you have the 30% taken out of every sale on a platform EXCEPT for Steam, which is 12%.
Nobody factors in the cost for production of physical media, the cost of advertising, marketing, and the loss from discounts/used game sales and they wonder why selling 3 mill for FF16 isn’t profitable. Or they don’t understand amortization and how games are supposed to generate profit over a long period of time.
Instead, they say Square makes unreasonable expectations for a game to sell when it’s the reality of the cost of AAA development and ROI. I wish I could go back and reply to comments where people jumped down my throat telling me FF16 and FF7 Rebirth were financially successful and I had no idea what I’m talking about.
3mil is not a flop. 3X70 means 210 million. That still made some profit because gaming industry does have a high profit market/product.
Its just that this was not able to cover their fiscal year and disasters like Forsepoken.
Also 16 wasnt even a JRPG let alone an RPG let alone a Final Fantasy game.
You are wrong about steam only taking 12%
Steam takes 30%
The Unreal store takes 12%
Dang it, that’s what I meant. EGS only does 12% which is why exclusive deals for them are better for the devs in terms of getting more on a sale.
So with the 30% taken out of a $70 the pub/dev gets $49. Less for discounted sales and none for used game sales.
The problem is you assume it is simple math for FF16 and Rebirth. You don't know how much money Sony paid for exclusivity or if they reduced the 30% cut as well.
Both those games definitely made money and still have PC versions to be released.
How can you say that when you don’t know?
Here just for context, Spider-Man 2 was $300 mill. In order to break even, that is no profit, they needed to sell 7 mill copies. That’s at full price, btw. So, we’re not saying 7 mill copies that could be $20 each or at a discount.
FF16 Selling 3 mill was probably a good sign in the beginning until sales stopped hard. You know what Square did then?
Something pretty drastic that plummeted their net profits by 65% and operating income by 78% and put them in the red. They paid the dev cost themselves. The reason was sales halted so badly that doing this would make every game sell at a profit moving forward and looks better to investors.
So, just to recap a highly expensive AAA game like Spider-Man 2 at $300 mill budget has to sell over 7 mill to make a profit and even more so for ROI. FF16 did 3 mill and sales slumped so badly they paid off the dev cost instead of allowing for amortization.
FF7 Rebirth was estimated at 2.5 mill and slowing down…
So, yea, those sales don’t even cover the dev cost. How are you coming to the conclusion that they sold well enough?
I love how yearly profits drops are blamed on the PS exclusives that sell well enough to be best selling games of the month and of the year and not the multiple other multiplatform games that bombed. Like Valkyrie alysium, diofield, etc...
Also assuming Rebirth or 16 had the same budget as Spider man 2 is beyond idiotic considering Japanese game development is way cheaper than in the US and Sony has to pay Marvel licensing costs.
I am coming to the conclusion that the games sold well because Square said they sold well.
16 sold to expectations at launch but dropped more than expected but still expected to hit 18 month goal. Rebirth sold under expectations but still not bad. Those are their words.
I’m not saying it cost 300 mill to make I was using that as an example. Say it was $100 mill and then another $100 mill for marketing and events…
Get where I’m going with this? It’s not like a game suddenly ramps up to another 3 mill units sold at full price a year later. Games are much like movies in the way that launch day sales and those few weeks are where the most sales happen and then it slows down big time.
As for your assumption, I don’t know how to break this easily to you, but they told investors it failed to perform and again paid off the dev cost instead of waiting for amortization. I’m not trying to insult your intelligence, but do you know how amortization works in terms of sales and expenses?
Also, can you link me where they said FF7 Rebirth sold “not bad?”
Here is where square enix president says Rebirth sales aren't necessarily bad.
https://www.reddit.com/r/FF...
They told investors FF16 will reach the 18 month goal in the link above and amortization of the costs of FFXVI meant future sales a profitable according to the analyst in the link below
https://www.tweaktown.com/n...
"Rather than follow the trends, Square Enix has instead chosen to pay off FFXVI's costs outright, which means that all future subsequent game sales will be profitable."
Yea that’s the drastic move I was mentioning that out then in the red. They paid off the entire dev cost for FF16 so that any game moving forward is technically profit… lets be real, you put your company in the hole like that those copies while, technically profit by definition, isn’t recouping things. He believes that can make the 18 month goal, which I don’t know what that means… are they talking sales of the game or the point in time that the game should be at in terms of profit?
Foamstars lost 95% of its playerbase as a free-to-play game. Are you telling me the amount of microtransactions it sold werent “necessarily bad?”
It sounds kind of like PR talk. I mean, if you’re promoting or discussing a product you tend to go politician when speaking. Y’know, like when the Xbox President gets asked questions and words them in ways not to reflect negativity… or in her case completely shift the discussion.
The reality of the situation is these games didn’t sell and are actually selling worse with each entry. It’s not just with Square, but this is hitting the industry as a whole.
A lot of Games just aren’t selling and the cost to develop is too much. My other point was to show you can’t say game sold 1 mill x $70 = profit made and dev cost covered when there’s so much more to it than simple math like that.
More than likely FFXVI cost 100 million or more to make, then giving 30% of the sales to Sony means they made a very small profit if it only sold 3 million copies.
Crimson
When you do exclusive deals platform holders can decide to take less than 30%. Most games make the most money in initial 12-18 weeks (most not all) because that’s when game is selling for MSRP
And square enix does stupid things to make less money on yearly basis they release complete and utter failures like Forsaken
Can you show me where you found the info that platform holders take less than 30%? You’d think if you paid for it to be exclusive to your platform you’d want to get as much money out of the deal as you can.
And yea… I mean Forspoken definitely put them in the hole and they dissolved that entire studio. But look at FF7 Rebirth, what could easily be considered the best game they’ve done in ages, it’s selling even worse than 16. If it sold “good enough” you wouldn’t see them cease all exclusivity and aggressively pursue multi platform releases.
crimson
first of al that deal is very different. SE didn't want to remake FF7 because of the cost so sony helped them with actual development costs upfront. without sony there would be no FF7 remake. Just like without sony there wouldn't be silent hill 2 or MGS3 remake
You're absolutely right. You're the only one figured that out. Congratulations 👏 👏 👏
Awww cmon man. I’m trying to just have a discussion on this because I’m legit curious on how this all works. Like toss the ol’ pig skin back and forth with me, here.
I'm not trying to brag, but when this all went down and I linked articles stating otherwise I got dogpiled by fanboys.
Seriously, let’s flip the script and actually have some civil discourse here instead of going straight for the throat punches.
I'm all for that but you know other people have factored all that in. Ivan Drago that game... if it dies... it dies
You forgot to mention Sony paid handsomely for these to be exclusive also. It's not like Sony just asked and square did it. Sony paid
The physical media barely costs anything to make, I know because I make blu-rays for a living. You can buy them by the disc for way less than a dollar per disc. Case and all, I dont spend more than $1.50, and I'm not even buying them in the bulk numbers Square is.
The 3 million plus selling, 87 metacritic game is definitely the problem and not the mediocre bombs like diofield, harvestella or Valkyrie alysium...
Hard disagree here. It’s not a terrible game. Not being YOUR cup of tea is different. Some people don’t like Tetris, and that doesn’t mean it’s a terrible game.
Yeah...and more than "some" people want to play a Tetris if the product is named Tetris.
If a game is called Tetris 16 but it plays more like Lumines or Collumns its not what "some" people wanted.
You get what I mean.
@Terry
It’s expected that every FF will be different though. I do agree that the combat itself was lacking compared to previous entries. But it’s not a bad game at all. It’s not even a bad final fantasy either.
It barely felt like an rpg though. That turns of alot of people. Far as 7 tmremake trilogy they made a dumb decision with 3 parts, rebirth may have suffered from alot of other jrpgs coming out at the time where as far as rpgs or jrpgs ff16 had no competition. Also not sure how true it is or was but I read that the ff7 remake double pack wasn't being counted as a sale
This honestly does not bode well for the final part of the FF7 series. It often makes me wonder why they ever bothered to remake it at all if this is the thanks they get for making one of the greatest RPGs to exist. All that hooting and hollering at conventions for nothing.
I'm sorry I keep seeing this but what exactly is the concern for Part 3? Aren't they already announced that they are already working on it?
Lionsgard I don't think they will cut anything tbh. It's still gonna get a pc release. Possibly Xbox if it's still around to.
I was alright with it but they may have turned some people off the last 10 years with ff. Unless their remakes I won't be buying a new ff game.
Following a recent interview with Sony, Naughty Dog head Neil Druckmann claims the original intent was “unfortunately lost” in the process.
He can take dog shit put it in a oven with seasoning then call it waistland cookies the sony fans will pay $40 a cookie give them a medal of cooking.
No mater what trash this sobs puts out/talks about it will sell.
The true fact in the 8 years sense uncharted 4 his first time in the main seat to a point all this "amazing" team did was get 2 dudes to fuck in a van then destroy a franchise they never created.
But being a port studio they are decent at they should keep in there lane at being just that a glorified port studio.
@frosty
Over what? naught dog under his command is a glorified port team tlou2 was mostly tlou 1 asset's with the same game play loop but forced a trans down your throat.
I would gladly help pay for this blight and his team to get removed from gaming in general.
Seeing a LGBT person exist in a work of fiction isn't "forcing them down your throat". Nobody is forcing you to play it. Nobody is forcing you to agree with it. If you think that just seeing a LGBT person exist is "force", it sounds like they make you very uncomfortable, and maybe you need to be doing some serious reflecting on exactly why... looks to me like you're suppressing something with all that fear.
@fro
When i think of the last of us i think of a group of survivors crossing the apocalypse wasteland with a growing bond between 2 people that end up with Joel making ellie his new daughter.
Then you fire up the 2nd one bang joel is dead oh that comic series? bang dead
Oh you want to continue all that we grew in the first one? na f that toss it in the trash
Now here is a trans woman so strong superboy would blush go out there kill all what made tlou1 then halfway get a forced sex scene that you can not skip between 2 dudes.
The gameplay? just like the first game the combat/backpack system crafting sytem? 0 changes/improvements.
I could go on but lets face it they copy pasted that tlou 1 assets bin a shit ton of times.
There is nothing on the box or the ads or anything before the game that said you would going to spend most of the game controlling a new trans character that has no ties to anything of the first game the only existence was to kill what the first game made.
Oh but hey there is a mp mode coming out before 2022 wait what is that? oh we made it its own game then cancelled it now go but the game again as we port it a few times.
https://www.youtube.com/wat...
What has Straley or Henig released since they left ND? Not a thing! stop scapegoating! Which of them is credited with co-writing a majorly successful show?
@mkis007
You bring up Bruce Straley really? someone that gave us 4 generations of amazing games and was there in the creation of 4 legendary franchises but was tossed in the trash for the pos niel druckmann not 7? years ago
So yeah in those 7? years you right all he has done is get 2 awards one is a game award for a puzzle game he made oh boy right like for fuck sake's all niel has done is one game that was a overhyped fan boy orgasm underneath all that ps jizz was just a typical 5/10 game.
Then you drag Amy Hennig that poor woman was also kicked out then became this century's Brendan Fraser with her sexual misconduct information coming out.
We all know how horrible people are treated behind the scenes she might have been sexual attacked groped or something.
So yeah all she did after was battlefield hardline forspoken now that new marvel 1945 game but hey Brendan Fraser was a great actor till he also said he was sexually attacked just now he is allowed back in no doubt she also had to take a leave of absence out and or was forced out on ice.
Man there are way to many out there that look at niel at the new gaming jesus when all he had done is some work on uncharted 4 then tlou2
Oh also the tvhshow? for real all they did was use stuff from the 2013 game its like saying GOT was a 10/10 but never watching past season 3
@mkis007
That's highly unfair to them both
Amy Hennig got messed around working on projects that got cancelled by the publishers (EA) and then ended up on a awful game (Forspoken) where you had 4 other writers working on it which is just a recipe for disaster. She is now working on Marvel 1943: Rise of Hydra. Not her fault she was pushed out of NaughtyDog, something both Nolan North and Richard McGonagle have both said in interviews.
Bruce Straley left after burn out, the rest of the story we don't know and will never know just like what happened with Amy Hennig. He decided to take a break and wasn't sure if he wanted to come back to gaming however he had an idea he wanted to make so he founded Wildflower Interactive, a smaller studio where they are currently working on a new game.
@the obvious stain of a commenter
The trans character wasn't Abby. Try playing Part 2 instead of gatekeeping what you think Part 1 was about and meant.
Maybe try watching the show while you're at it, because you're terribly off with your opinion on that too
@just he has been behind 2 of the greatest games ever made. Tlou2 was easily the best non-vr game made last gen. Losers just can't get over Joel's death, mixed with the usual console war nonsense. The fact that you so casually call him a sob shows how deranged some gamers have become about Drunkmann.
@frosty, for people like Just, including anyone that can be categorized as being a minority in any kind of media is "forcing it down his throat " lol. I to don't care for poor "checking box" inclusion for inclusion sake but that was not the case with tlou2.
The pathetic part about it is, you can tell just_looken never even played TLOU, because that was the game where Ellie's sexuality was first brought to light... No "that was forced down our throats" to be said about that.
Only terrified folks in the closet that use their hatred as cover from outing themselves fear LGBT people that much. They exist. They will exist in all aspects of life, including popular media. Get over it.
@all
Once again you drag out something like its a big win
Here is my old channel a clip of me playing TLOU on ps3
https://www.youtube.com/wat...
Search my channel for more clips
Proof its my channel? look at this profiles banner that is 7yrs old then look at other vids on that channel like my bf3 clips to see my psn id. But knowing this group that is way to much work.
Also elle being a lesbian is another trump card? one dlc is all we got of that a dlc that took over a year to be tossed out.
Glad he clarified it but i'm still somewhat skeptical. Plus, his comments about how Ai will revolutionize storytelling were still pretty iffy.
Druckmann claims the tech could 'push the boundaries of storytelling in games.'
I’m more interested in what else he said.
“Neil Druckmann says new Naughty Dog title could ‘redefine mainstream perceptions of gaming’
Replies(6)
every time naughty dog make a game, you play it and get the feeling "this is not possible'
from the boulder running towards you in crash, on ps1,
to the massive open world of jak and daxter, on ps2,
to the QuickTime events sequences of uncharted on ps3/4
and now we will see what they do with ps5,
Arrogant asshole who sniffs his own farts bigs up next game…sounds like typical PR to me
You know what I find interesting? Almost every site reporting this as the main title where the REAL interesting bit of the interview is Neil praising AI and saying it will be used to help push story, characters, dialogue and more.
It’s super shitty to big up AI especially when it comes to story telling and other creative elements.
Just because someone says this type of stuff, it doesn't mean that it's guaranteed to be good news.
You can say this about microtransactions. MXTs revolutionised the gaming industry.
He also said it has "ethical issues we need to address" but of course that doesn't get the clicks.
I’m all for it. Cuts the time to make a game. Look, Hellblade 2 took 5 years to make, if AI can do that in half the time, as a consumer, I support it.
