The Outerhaven writes: We discussed the 2024 Xbox Developer Direct Showcase, what we thought about the games, and scored the show in our latest episode of Spectator Mode Podcast.
Xbox's handling of the marketing for Senua's Saga: Hellblade 2 is casting a huge doubt over the future of its developer, Ninja Theory.
They should be worried. They we told they were free to be creative to dev. a walking sim, and now Phil and the Lady are walking that back.
let's look at the other side of the coin. why did HellBlade 2 which is a short game took more than half a decade to develop? If a game is taking millions upon millions to make then expectations will grow and when those expectations fail to meet then decisions are made.
I am not defending MS here, above is just my humble opinion.
In other words MS were never interested in the people that made the ip, MS only wanted their ip…
MS knew everything you said before they bought Ninja Theory.
"why did HellBlade 2 which is a short game took more than half a decade to develop?"
They're a smaller studio that has had a number of other projects they've been working on in that time as well.
This 2 comments from Microsoft worries me
“ Matt Booty, head of Xbox Game Studios, mentioned in an email to employees that the company is now looking to prioritize “high-impact” titles and “identify the opportunities that are best positioned for success.” Similarly, Xbox president Sara Bond talked about identifying industry trends and transitioning towards them during her recent interview with Bloomberg. ”
One is saying it will prioritize high impact games like CoD and service games while she basically saying they’re going to follow trends AKA the leader AKA Sony.
We all know that to succeed in the gaming industry you need to be a trends setter not a follower 🤦🏿.
Microsoft have learned nothing they still think that the 360 era of buy, absorb, destroy is the way to succeed in the video games industry.
They should have stayed independent and should have never gotten involved with MICROSOFT
It wasn't that easy. Ninja Theory were down to less than 20 employees and were forced to making a MOBA of all things (Bleeding Edge) in order to try and make enough money to survive. That game ended up being a total failure, so without MS, there's a high chance they closed anyway.
The same with Obsidian (ironically, they were on their last legs because they missed a metacritic score by 1 with Fallout New Vegas which would have netted them a huge cash bonus from Bethesda - something they were banking on and financially ruined them for nearly 10 years until being acquired).
Maybe someone else would have come in - but we'll never know.
If MS do close Ninja too, at that rate, we should consider possibility that MS’s end goal is to buy more and more studios and shutter them, keep the ips, then when the game development community is a desert of its former self, use MS’s abundance of capital to recreate gaming space under its own management…
Why shutter them? Maybe because otherwise it would be too obvious that they are creating a monopoly. They are shuttering them while keeping their ips, which allows for purchase of more of the multiplatform industry.
This could be a part of it. I think it has more to do with shareholders, but MS would love the position you are mentioning.
I think it really is as simple as Anast says.
According to that Bloomberg graph, Xbox experienced a few years of massive growth a few years ago and since then, it's been going down each year. Of course, most normal people would put that growth down to Covid but investors live in a different world. They don't see that it's making hundred of millions or even billions. All they see if that it's going down and that's enough to spook them.
Yup, MS is not buying to manage the studios and make games, they are buying them to dismantle and destroy, keep the ips, then go after more studios to dismantle. Once nothing is left, they will use their deep pockets to make studios. Its like telecommunication companies. They merge together and shut down competing services, so now I only have one service provider in my area, and that company is a local monopoly so they treat you however it damn well pleases.
Everything they bought is at risk, Game Pass is NEVER going to be able to support all the development for these studios while also maintaining any kind of catalog of new games.
If it wasn't supporting itself before they bought all these studios it's obviously not going to be able to support even more.
Pretty apparent they next on the cutting block. Hellblade 2 is a week out and the only noise from XBOX marketing is akin to a fart. Not even a loud pants-ripping fart....but a shameful supressed one.
Replies(2)🚨🚨 Never forget - Hofstaderman is a convicted sex offender / pedophile - and N4G refuses to ban him 🚨🚨
Whoa how obscure....are you ok buddy? Did you take your meds? Dont worry mods will see to you soon. Ciaou
Nobody cares. We all know your main account. Now shush and watch XBOX burn with all of us
The only thing burning should be you, pedophile. Salty because we know what you are.
And no matter how hard you try, they don’t ban my primary account 😂😂
There's no way Ninja Theory stays in business after Hellblade 2.
It's a digital only release, it's been in development for over five years, and it's a Game Pass Day One, which means it's not going to blow any sales charts apart. That's already taking into account that Ninja Theory don't make games that sell multiple millions, they cater to a niche audience.
Ninja Theory has been around for a very long time and they've served their audience well, DmC aside, but I'm betting on them closing or being absorbed soon.
Senua's Saga: Hellblade 2 has received a substantial visual upgrade, and we've put together a comparison that shows the improvements.
Why market something that isn't designed to be sold?
This has GP rental written all over it.
Why bother showing me X shows streaming on Disney before my YouTube video since it's a rental?
Why bother showing what movies are coming to a theater?
Actually, how come game companies bothered in them past with advertising games since a lot of ppl used to rent them at BlockBuster?
Here is a simple reason: making ppl Interested in this game by making them subscribe to Gamepass, or buying the game on PC/Xbox, or worse giving them a reason to buy an Xbox console.
@Pete, speaking of movies, Microsoft should copy that business model and sell the games at $70 for 3 months and then let it hit Gamepass after those 3 months. It gives them time to let the game receive a big profit, so for that big game you've been waiting years for that you don't want spoiled, I don't mind paying the $70 a couple times a year. And for those small niche games that don't require a big budget and big profits to succeed, well Gamepass is perfect for that to see if you enjoy it.
@Noskypeno
I agree, always said that there are no financial gains in putting established games that will sell on names alone (COD, GEARS, HALO, FORZA, etc), the same way Disney won't give you the next Avenger Day 1 on Disney plus +.
MS could release game some smaller games with some AA game day 1 while making money for a couple of month on big titles.
They just posted a 20+ minute video about Psychosis and how the game portrays that through Senua.
Regardless of what Microsoft is doing (retweeting Ninja Theory is about as low effort as it gets, and Dashboard Dynamic Themes should've come months ago), Ninja Theory themselves are at least trying.
It's sad though. That new video was a really good behind-the-scenes too, and it just came at such a bad time.
who knows..they might be the next developer that gets shut down..6-12 months after Hellblade 2 is released.
"a 20+ minute video about Psychosis and how the game portrays that through Senua".....game sounds like a bundle of fun!
How much marketing do games really need these days? People that play games know when its coming out. I really think the days of the constant tv ad etc are going the way of the Dodo. What scares me more is the lack of "previews" on big video game websites, it only got a few on April 4th and then nothing since.
Wow Tankbusta40 how out of touch with reality can you be, mate. Do you think companies are insane to spend millions on having giant billboards for big releases and TV adverts and superbowl slots and round the clock PR and interviews? Most of the people who buy games aren't on gaming forums like these knowing the exact release dates!
This isn't being marketed because Microsoft isn't selling the product, it's a Game Pass day one and they don't throw their weight behind games like this.
"Here is a simple reason: making ppl Interested in this game by making them subscribe to Gamepass, or buying the game on PC/Xbox, or worse giving them a reason to buy an Xbox console."
No one is buying a Xbox for Hellblade 2. Lol. Advertising will not change that. Just considering after all this time Xbox confirmed numbers they were not good for Hellblade 1
"The last numbers we have for Hellblade 1 is that it had 6.3 million players after four years. That’s players, not sales, and that includes launching on Xbox, PlayStation, PC, Switch and it was also on Xbox Game pass starting in 2018."
https://www.forbes.com/site...
Wouldn't be surprised if one of the money men at Microsoft have already earmarked this studio for closure regardless of how well Hellblade 2 does. Hence the lack of marketing spend.
Under a rock much? This game has been trailered to death already over the past 5 years.
Most likely. Otherwise more people would know about the game....most people don't...it'll drive some in Gamepass but that's probably going to be it.
Most people don't know about the first game either. I don't see this driving new members to gamepass though, it's too niche.
yupp..most likely just a matter of time.
more or less every studio that got bought by them was killed later.
It's sad that Ninja Theory can update graphics, lighting, made a marvelous game but still the sword of Damocles moving up their heads... After Tango Game works every one that works on any studios under the wing of MS are probably having a Plan B looking for another place to go thanks to that stupid idea of even if you create a jewel they can axe you...
I mean, we'll have to see.
What I find problematic was Bond really saying that each case for success metrics with different studios is different. However, the studios recently closed seemed surprised when it happened so... Is Microsoft not telling the studios what their expectations are?
It's entirely feasible, but I suspect Starfield didn't really move the needle and Bethesda is safe... But Tango, who made a game that was very well received with a smaller budget gets closed?
We really don't understand what they want. It doesn't help that they shadow dropped HFR with no marketing and I would say outperformed any expectations for it. But somehow, that wasn't enough?
In truth, we don't really know what the criteria for closure is. Specific engagement metrics? Mean play time? Some internally developed index to assess some engagement-to-budget ratio?
We don't know. I think the concern for Ninja Theory is valid, but sink or swim at MGS seems to be a moving target.
The most concerning thing about Senua is that it's a farily niche title that MS for some reason spent a fortune on. Makes you think about what their expectations are. If they are hoping for God Of War money I would expect another closure.
It's been over 4 years since that game released. I wonder if Ninja Theory will even be around 4 years from now, maybe not even 4 months, lol.
Following the closure of 4 studios, many are now worried for the future of Ninja Theory once Hellblade 2 is released.
Meant better to sell the studio and not closing it 🤦🏻 not to sell more games….
and games are sold anyways, you can buy it on xbox (not recommended if you got gamepass) but many pc gamers prefer to buy on steam than deal with the xbox app or pc gamepass!
On a side note to OP, the sales of studios wont happen though, especially when they want to retain the IPs, and well nobody is gonna buy a studios without its IPs; the other publishers that want a certain dev from the studio that are closing on their team can try to grab them as soon as they see they notice of the studio.
@Sephiroushin
Well hypothetically speaking, Ninja Theory can be sold to Sony at a lower rate sans the Hellblade IP.
Sony can then welcome them to work on the Heavenly Sword IP, which they still own.
Will be a nice proposition for Sony who can continue to offer a God of War-like hack n slash in their portfolio via Heavenly Sword 2, whilst Cory Barlog & co. decides to take a break from the God of War IP & venture some other genres.
On top of that, Ninja Theory was also interested in a sequel to Enslaved: Odyssey to the West and such Sony can come to a deal with Namco Bandai regarding the Enslaved IP.
selling the studio wouldn't be an attractive offer unless they come with their IPs. MS wants to keep these IPs, so even if MS is selling just the studio, no one would wants them
Because they're next come next year. HB2 won't hit some impossible metric within MS so they're getting axed in 2025. Leave gaming now MS.
Every xbox studio is in danger now because there’s just no way they’re gonna rake in big money from game sales because of gamepass, even CoD was rumored to not come to gamepass because it would canibalize their sales number.
If they are smart they don’t put COD on GP day one. It’s one of the best selling games on yearly basis
Satya will make sure that doesnt happen. As you rightly put it; why kill the cash cow?
But then again, it is MS after all.....
I agree and disagree. They should not put it on GP, but CoD makes real money from the overpriced MTX that people buy for over a year. They also have it all linked up to the Mobile CoD, which will incentivize Twitch spending from consumers.
Software
That’s true but keep in mind COD is the best selling or top 3 selling game every year. So yes micro transactions money is there but so are billions more
They should have tiers of GP subscriptions and the higher end tier received AAA games while everyone else gets them in 60 days
Wouldn't putting it on Gamepass be smarter? Cod is typically played, I believe, for far longer than 6 months.. if you get everyone playing the game for a year, on Gamepass, you've essentially doubled your profit. $10 a month for a year $120 compared to selling the game once for $60.
Not to mention MT's, on top of it. Sell on PS5, PC and Switch, keep it on Gamepass for Xbox and PC. Much smarter in my opinion..
Also if you punish a studio for releasing a great critically acclaimed game which won some awards then what chance does anyone have
After this mess, I highly doubt the next installment of COD will be on Gamepass day one. It'll probably land on Gamepass 6 months after release date.
Like I said earlier, I wouldn't even mind. There's a good selection of games on GP already, and it gives me time to play my backlog of games while allowing the games that need to sell millions of copies to make a profit a chance to succeed, a win win scenario.
not putting CoD on GP is sort of a violation of their own marketing though. they said ALL MS 1st party games will be on GP day 1, not some. CoD is 1st party, so to not put it on GP day 1 would be considered as false marketing.
Ninja theory games were never big sellers. I could be wrong, but I doubt hellblade 2 will sell millions. I would rather they go independent and make heavenly sword 2.
heavenly sword is Sony owned IP. this will never happen as original didn't sell enough...
Wikipedia: "In 2008, it was reported that a sequel to Heavenly Sword was in-development at SCE Studio Cambridge, but was canceled due to Sony no longer seeing it as a commercially viable product"
I remember. I feel like the amount of time & technology that has passed would make a sequel a big seller now. The game has enough legacy recognition to build hype.
