1130°

360 Developer: Hitting Graphical Limit But Can Do Alot More On A.I & Animation

Major Nelson recently interviewed Mark Terrano, a video game programmer and Design Director for Hidden Path Entertainment on the progress of the industry from a technological point view, and specifically his evaluation of the current generations technical achievements and limitations for the Xbox 360 XBLA games.

Listen from the 43rd minute on the podcast.

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Fishy Fingers5857d ago (Edited 5857d ago )

Not really what you want to hear.

Especially in this day and age when visuals are the first and main talking point of any "next-gen" game.

green5857d ago (Edited 5857d ago )

Did you guys listen to the podcast?
Do you know that this is an Xbox Live Arcade game that he is talking about?

Those that disagree please can you state the name of the game that he is developing for the 360?

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juuken5857d ago

Sausage King has a point. MS is not a hardware company. They are a software company, which is why Live is better than PSN at the moment. But when it comes to hardware, they are unreliable and it's a complete waste of the consumer's money.

Like I've been saying all along-You cannot play games/function if the console doesn't work.

Superfragilistic5857d ago

The recent title was Wits & Wagers and the next is Defence Grid: The Awakening. You're right people should listen to the podcast because the title deliberately misleads.

The whole conversation is in the context of graphical, AI and animation limits for 150MB Arcade games on XBLA!

marichuu5857d ago

@juuken
I can't play broken games either... I've had more problems with broken games than problems with the console.

juuken5857d ago

That's true as well, however the hardware still counts the most. I would rather have a broken game, where I could probably take it back and get it exchanged than to have a headache over a console that refuses to work.

MediaStream5857d ago (Edited 5857d ago )

You don't really need a 360 developer to tell you this.

Just look at the 360 release list. Where are these amazing games?

Gears of War 2 landed with a bit of a thud after being overhyped and turned out to be just a slightly upgraded Gears of War

Alan Wake is primarily a PC game and is looking very dated now.

Sure there are 360 games that are going to look good or even be described as amazing. But the same can be said for the Wii.

Banjo Kazooie, Ninja Gaiden 2, and Fable 2 all look nice but certainly aren't graphical showpieces that one would expect in a console's third year.

marichuu5857d ago

@1.8
As I said.. for over 2 years, I haven't had ANY problems with my 360, but I've had problems with games being lame (bad controls, camera controls, AI being lame etc.). I know where you're going with this... there are a lot of people who experience a breaking 360, but in my case (and probably others) it works without anything to complain about when it comes to hardware.

This article doesn't chock me or anything... I'm the type of gamer who doesn't need realistic graphics to have fun with a game. Look at Disgaea for the PS2/PSP, and look at Disgaea 3 for the PS3... barely any difference in graphics, but the game is f***ing addictive and more fun than any other game I've played recently... hell, my GTA IV is just collecting dust while I have fun playing Disgaea on the PSP.

Oh.. and no, I don't own a Wii.

dan-boy5857d ago

and i suppose ps3 games are in the 5th dimension?

a purposely mis-leadingly titled thread for all the people who've not even heard was said to throw their uninformed opinions at...lol

you've just gotta love n4g.com

MediaStream5857d ago

@dan-boy

Feel free to let everyone know what these incredible graphical titles are supposedly coming out for the 360.

A slightly upgraded UE3 Gears of War 2 sure as hell isn't impressing anyone.

Montrealien5857d ago

Gears of War 2 is impressing me, so is Killzone 2 and MGS4, who the **ck am I? And who are you to say it is not impressive, that is only your opinion. G

gameplay over graphics is and always will be the number one rule of video-gaming, if we lose that mentality the whole industry will go to s***.

And to Juuken,

Software » Hardware

This fact, is as old as digital time.

Monchichi0255857d ago

That title is very misleading because his comment was taken WAY out of context. He isn't talking about the 360 but the whole industry in general.

marinelife95857d ago (Edited 5857d ago )

Peter Molyneux just stated that the 360 architecture caused him to have to compromise elements of Fable 2.

Microsoft needs to tell their developers to keep quiet and not talk about hardware at all. I'm surprised Major Nelson didn't edit his podcast.

power of Green 5857d ago

I wonder what this XBL Arcade game will offer.

Yet another agenda based twisting of news posts.

Whats with the missleading header?. I'm going to report bad editing.

JBaby3435857d ago (Edited 5857d ago )

However I agree with him on certain points. I don't think Gears 2 looks much better than the first but games on all consoles can use better AI. Uncharted was the first game that made me actually think to get through some parts but even then things can get predictable after a while.

AI is definitely where games have significant ground to cover although I think they are improving.

Tmac5857d ago

I'm sorry, to all you saying he is referring to XBL Arcade games, he isn't he clearly denotes that he's specifically talking about the Xbox 360, he doesn't even mention Arcade games. Don't make assumptions and spin the facts, it is what it is and it's a developer telling us straight up the Xbox 360 has hit the wall.

power of Green 5857d ago (Edited 5857d ago )

LOl there's over 100 people flaming eachother talking about sh*t they're clueless about just from the header alone no one listend to the cast" not that its going to matter to the PS3 fans that will continue to fight based on the missleading header on purpose.

1.6... Thanks *Wits & Wagers* has great graphics photo-real in some places but this seems arrogant of the devs when that game uses copy and paste styles in that game but obvously they're talking about memory.

marinelife95857d ago

The title isn't misleading at all. On this particular topic they aren't talking about XBL games they're talking about the 360 itself.

What XBL game can tout near photo realistic graphics? Which XBL game can rival the capabilities of a Hollywood movie?

Monchichi0255857d ago

It's obvious that you didn't listen to the Podcast. Either that or your a blind Sony lemming. He's talking about graphics in general. As in the whole industry and where we can take it from here.

READ:
I think realism is losing some of the luster - I would love to see some work done on what we call "non-photo realistic rendering", paint-related techniques, we do things you can do in movies but I'm more interested in what you can't do in movies...

potenquatro5857d ago

360 is going for 3 countem 3 years. ofcourse its going to reach a limit. what the hell is everybodys problem. i'm willing to bet ALOT of the ps3 retards here had ps2. what happened when gamecube and xbox came out? did the ps2 become irelevent? no. they kept making games for it.great games for it. how is this news related to the 360 falling short. did anybody in here actually read? they are talking about XBOX LIVE ARCADE games.
@fishy fingers: THIS gen stopped being NEXT-GEN along time ago. there are games out there and being made for far more powerful machines(new vidoe cards) that can never be made or ported the way it was intended for either ps3 or 360. grafics has always been a main talking point on any gen. these machines were meant to produce grafics.

Lifendz5857d ago

That happens when you've seen a system's best shot and you can start to identify that system's games. Not saying it's bad; far from it. Devs were able to exploit the 360 from day one. Now they've maxed.

I said nothing about the PS3 so don't flame me. I'm no dev so until a dev says they've tapped the full potential of the cell (laughs a bit) I will reserve my statements.

potenquatro5857d ago

i don't see a certain look to xbox games.i do see a certain look for games this gen. even pc games looked in that similar way for a while but it's starting to break away now. but i disagreed with you because there is no way in hell the ps3 is going to blow the xbox out of the water. i've had the ps3 for a while and i think i've seen about all it can do. same as 360. the ps3 is in 3rd place for two years now. u don't think if they had this raw untapped power they would've used it now? i say ps3 and xbox are about even. there is NO proof to the contrary. i personally hate CELL and blame stupid CELL for ANY of the ps3's undelivered promises. if they would've used two or four powerpc chips it would've been much better imo.

marionz5857d ago

what a lame story, no onder the title was made to sound fanboyish, i guess it would have got verry few comments without a title like that...

Kaneda5857d ago

Wow.. 11 people disagreeing with you..:)

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5857d ago Replies(4)
Meus Renaissance5857d ago

I have to stress that it is his professional opinion and doesn't necessarily mean that the Xbox 360 has hit its graphical limitations - it really is based on largely the expertise and skill of a studio as well as it is on the hardware itself. Personally I feel titles like KillZone 2 will be the limit of what we'll see this generation graphically. I'm not some sort of delusional fanboy but I haven't yet seen any 360 title that looks better than Uncharted or GT5 or even Ratchet & Clank; those titles really impressed me visually so it suggests that at the end of this generation, within the next 2-3 years, the PlayStation 3 will be the console with generally the better looking graphics although I would not be surprised if the two performed equally in that regard anyway. I just have this inkling that Sony's console is able to push that extra more onto our screens.

Douchebaggery5857d ago

That "inkling" is just you using your eyes.

dachiefsman5857d ago

you should have titled this submission with something that is not oozing with flame bait fodder....IMO

green5857d ago (Edited 5857d ago )

You submitted this story and you are making comments as if you did not listen to the podcast.Or did you submit the story to feed your fanboy agenda?hence the title that is taking out of context.

The name of the developer is Mark toranto,he works for Hidden Path Entertainment.A company with a staff of 32 and they make casual games mostly for xbox live arcade.

The game in question is called Defence Grid for xbox live arcade.

Now tell me how is a 150mb game utilizing the full power of the 360?

jkhan5857d ago

I remember reading somewhere in an interview with Epic's some guy said that Gears of War uses 90% of 360 power and bla bla, and I know it was there first game so they must have optimized a lot to reduce that number this time around. But yeah we aren't seeing any breakthrough graphics on 360, like we are seeing at ps3. Look at R1 then Ratchet and Uncharted and then MGS4 and R2 and Killzone 2 and just imagine for one sec. how will God Of War 3 will look like;)

princejb1345857d ago

yea i agree with u
since the 360 runs on a graphic card it is well known that every graphic card has a limit
all of us are unaware what willt he cell processors do for the ps3
mayb its the beginning of true next gen or mayb it will go down fall and fail
only time and money will tell in the future

mabreu5857d ago

Yep. Thats right. It's a real word. Google it.

Mum5857d ago

just take a look at all Ps3 Games.
MGS4 for example. it has great visuals but crappy texture quality unfortunately like any other ps3 game (except mirror's edge, which really surprised me). so i am really disappointed for this generation of consoles and i will stick to my pc and sell my 360. because pc gaming is the future!

jkhan5857d ago

@MUM
Well with PS2 we saw what developer did in 2007 wasn't even remotely possible with PS2 in 2000. So it will take time for developers to do stuff with PS3. Plus imagine when Sony will allow developers to overclock the cell processor. By the way MGS4 doesn't have poor textures, if you are looking for insane amount of details then you should watch cgi movies instead of playing games;)

SausageKing5857d ago

"crappy texture quality"

LOL...

You mean everything isn't covered in 'shiny normal maps'...

castags5857d ago

you as dumb as your avatar looks

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name5857d ago

They need to ban the open zone for this article.

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90°

15 Great Games Where Every Minute of the Experience Feels Earned

GB: "We take a look at 15 amazing games that had the perfect length."

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gamingbolt.com
1d 18h ago
coolbeans1d 4h ago

Pretty good list. Botany Manor would be the newest addition that encapsulates that title.

80°

Moving In My 30s Made Me Nostalgic For Physical Games

GL: "Staff writer Shaz reflects on his small library of physical games he's kept throughout the decades, and how a recent move made him nostalgic."

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Sciurus_vulgaris3d ago

I lost my drive for collecting physical games due to many discs lacking the whole complete game. Instead, of collecting games I started collected figurines.

Popsicle2d ago

I am a collector have a room dedicated with a couple original arcade cabinets, physical game library, old and new consoles and controllers backlit with LED lighting. It’s very cool to have but with emulation being so strong and prevalent, I sometimes feel foolish because the hobby is expensive and like another said, the full game is not always on the disc. Could probably spend more wisely but I enjoy it.

shinoff21831d 13h ago

Most games are usually on disc still. Of course you got you publishers that are hit and miss, Activision, ubisoft, ea, Microsoft, where the rest of the game needs downloaded.

400°

Anyone else not blown away with graphics these days? Me neither

Talal writes: "I'm talking about having that rush of excitement - that feeling you get when you know you've just made a memory for a lifetime."

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OptimusDK4d ago

There are different games. Some have gamplay at it highest priority, some have the story, some have the replay value and choices... There are a lot of different game experiences.

It is laughable that just now graphics does not have anything to do with that experiene. We have had many games of that type over time. This is just the one that have come closest to feel like playing an actual movie. Just look the the Digital foundry walkthrough it is a masterpiece in that perspective and hence wrth trying. But yes do not do it for the gameplay - but that was never the goal of this experience.

GamerRN4d ago

It's because it's on Xbox. When Xbox has amazing graphics, they don't matter. When PlayStation does, it's a game changer!

Lightning774d ago

Pretty much my thoughts. They were technical marvel's on PS and still are. The moment Xbox puts out a graphically intense game is doesn't matter suddenly.

4 years ago this month would the UE5 tech demo debut with the girl flying (tech demo said it was only possible on PS5 because of the SSD. Glad to finally see it in its glory.

fr0sty3d ago

FFS, gaming journalism has really gone downhill. At least hire people with a basic grasp of grammar... "Me neither" means the exact opposite of what the "author" is trying to say. That's like saying "I could care less"... lol.

S2Killinit3d ago

Maybe because the gameplay being dull allowed it to have the amazing graphics and people are not as impressed by graphics alone anymore? I mean there is a lot of sites saying the story and the gameplay are lackluster. So what are we supposed to enjoy then? Cgi graphics are beautiful but since they arent interactive, they dont impress me as much as they used to. Thats an extreme example, but you get my drift.

Terry_B3d ago

When Playstation (Sony) does it..its usually a great game and not a cinematic experience..or at least something new at the time..like Until Dawn back in 2015.

1Victor3d ago

@gamer:” It's because it's on Xbox. When Xbox has amazing graphics, they don't matter. When PlayStation does, it's a game changer!”

The game looks as good as any other PlayStation game in my eyes why can’t you and the other hardcore Xbox be happy about it and drag PlayStation into every conversation and force PlayStation hardcore to look into the game and find flaw that most games have in one way or another.
@light: “ 4 years ago this month would the UE5 tech demo debut with the girl flying (tech demo said it was only possible on PS5 because of the SSD. ”
Yes at that time it was only possible on PlayStation SSD how ignorant of you to think that after 4 years the technology wouldn’t evolved and move to a industry standard 🤦🏿I wish your mentality wasn’t so naive and narrow to post stuff like that 😩 in a year or 2 a new game will come out that might look better, it’s the nature of the industry.

Now that the distraction is gone I feel that is a good thing that the graphics in games are starting to hit the rooftop and hopefully the developers will put more thoughts into story and gameplay mechanics than just the next shiny oily skin of old.

Reaper22_3d ago

So true. Not surprised by all the negativity. It's a really good game and looks better than any game I've ever seen. GOTY nominee for sure. Like I said before, sony screwed up big time by not purchasing Ninja Theory.

Asplundh3d ago

Pretty much. It's like how the Switch and Steam controller using haptic feedback in their controllers wasn't a big deal but then Sony did it and it was then a "game changer".

fr0sty3d ago

The game runs at as low as 21fps... That isn't much to brag about no matter how good it looks.

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MajorLazer3d ago (Edited 3d ago )

We've had graphical gamechangers before, such as Crysis but those games still had gameplay to compliment it. Hellblade pretty much has none, and only achieved such graphics through being incredibly linear and having very small, closed off environments where very little is happening.

Vx_3d ago (Edited 3d ago )

GFX does not mean anything if the game is boring. It is simple like that and these major companies need to understand this simple concept.

Games are like your lady, she may be beautiful to look at for a while but then it gets boring if her character isn't interesting and fun to be with.

4d ago Replies(7)
Kneetos4d ago

Mario kart 8 ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Sonic18814d ago

Horizon forbidden West has great graphics and great gameplay

GamerRN4d ago

Yeah but graphics don't matter, remember?

anast3d ago

@RN

I've been pretty consistent in saying that we need both.

GamerRN2d ago

So until dawn, too human, or whatever those series of games were... Graphic masterpieces it garbage with no gameplay?

VincentVanBro4d ago

I agree and I actually think Forbidden West looks better than Hellblade 2. I easily prefer looking at it at least.

Sonic18813d ago

It does look better in my opinion as well. I don't know why it looks better but there's something about the Decima engine or that guerrilla games is using tricks that we don't know of

Abear213d ago

Can you fly a mount under water in Hellblade 2? I think not! One of the best moments this Gen

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