Reggie: We never said the Wii storage solution is a hard drive

In the latest issue of Club Nintendo - a Spanish Nintendo magazine - Reggie Fils-Aime and Shigeru Miyamoto shed light on some interesting questions. First, and perhaps most importantly, Fils-Aime reaffirmed Nintendo's commitment to investigating a storage solution. However, Fils-Aime confirmed that it isn't necessarily a hard drive.

[kspraydad]

will be first console with BD-RW?

[kesvalk]

sorry for my lack of information, but what is a BD-RW?

EDIT: already searched in the net...

[sack_boi]

it's probably the Holographic data storage I read about some months earlier.... Next-gen Wii is going to own; just imagine what Nintend cn do no, wi pkets as big as theirs!

I heard that microsoft will be using the Larrabe processor on their next-gen system...

I can't wait for E3 2010-2011

[ChickeyCantor]

Sackboy,
To write Holographic data you need a big ass machine.
The tech still needs to be improved.
It's unlikely that we will see it this generation.

[sumfood4u]

Everything gets Pirated.

[Leathersoup]

Nintendo will be selling whiteboards for gamers to write level
passwords on.

[kspraydad]

8 Disagree's for a sarcastic remark (meant to be humorous) that didn't make fun of any console...guess people are right when the say the subtleties sarcasm rarely work on the internets.

[Raoh]

actually nintendo may trump sony and microsoft and start streaming games. almost like flash games in web browsers.

[unsunghero28]

I concur that it's highly probable Nintendo will begin offering a cloud computing solution.

Not only is such an approach economically and technologically feasible, but it prevents Nintendo from scaring away casual customers.

[zo6_lover27]

But that requires an internet connection, and a pretty dang fast one too. And also, it has to be wireless, which is even more of a problem.

[kesvalk]

i don't think this is a sollution for the storage problem, after all, we can redownload the game from shop channel, from my point of view, unless i am really wrong, it's the same thing, you will still need to have a net connection to do it, and it would need to be fast...

isn't it simple to break the limit of the SD card and make it possible that the Wii acess the information directly from it?

[zo6_lover27]

Kesvalk, that is the PERFECT solution.
The wii can recognize up to 2GB cards and that's already 4 times as much than the built in memory, and games only take up a VERY small amount memory

[Jerkapotamus]

Yes, unlocking the SD card is the most probable solution in my opinion.

[TruthbeTold]

If they do come up with a system where you download a much smaller file for a game, then connect online to play it from their servers then I think that all would be good. If you are downloading games onto your Wii, then you have Wireless internet, or access to it. It would be Win/Win.

[kesvalk]

not exactly, the Wiiware and VC games are tied to the Wii they are downloaded on, it can't be shared cuz the codification don't match,and the game can't be played on another console.

so you can't download a game on the SD and play it on your Wii, cuz it will have the code of another Wii.

[philatopus]

actually it is possible to download vc/wiiware games, using the wad installer on the homebrew channel.

[TitanUp]

bd-rw is Blu-Ray Disc-ReWritable anyways no i don't see nintendo using blu ray

[TruthbeTold]

...a bunch of non-information.

Oh! You're working on a storage solution just like you said months ago?

Oh! It's not necessarily a Hard Drive?

Oh! You think that Animal Crossing is what I want from you as pretty much your only offering through the end of the year?

Oh! There's a Zelda game being worked on, but you can't tell us anything, just like a few moths ago when you couldn't tell us anything?

Surprise, surprise.

[GFahim]

but they also announce the release date of disaster day of crisis from nowhere!

[TruthbeTold]

But that I'm glad about. I feared that that game was dead. Even so, the recent screens of it looked very PS2ish. The gameplay better be off the hook.

[Baka-akaB]

Then again regis you didnt say anything yet of value ...

Investigating ? Come on its not like they're IBM and will create a storage out of the blue ...

How long does it takes to decide weither or not you use flash drives , other kind of hdds , or yet more expensive cards ...

[KingDizzi]

He does not have to, put a turn on a disc with mario in it and you have 10 million sales guaranteed. Hell there DS good game sold 15 million, Nintendo are just too good at what they do.

If Sony or MS were able to go back in time, no prizes for guessing if they would have made the Wii in stead of the PS3 or 360 respectively....

[mfwahwah]

I don't understand why Nintendo want to drag this on and on. Honestly, get a HDD. Pop it into a Wii style case. Sell it. It's the fast, simple, reliable, cheap solution that everyone would go wild for, yet Nintendo just HAS to be innovative. Maybe they should focus on innovation for their next console, and focus on serving their customers with this console.

[KingDizzi]

Ah well Nintendo can do whatever they want as they own the console industry right now in terms of consoles and handhelds. They will find a way to get a great storage solution and while then will show how powerful they actually are in the gaming industry by releasing Wii music and having it sell 10 million in a year.

[kesvalk]

really, they can do anything, this generation, if they lose their fans they will have a serious problem in their hands, i don't think sony and MS will stand idle about the casual gaming next-gen, and nintendo will need their fans by their side when the two start to mitigate the casual audience...

and the only way nintendo can do that is to have good IPs on their console, so hardcore fans of the series will buy it too, it's like a cycle: good series come in > fans of the series buy Nintendo console > dev-houses make the sequel in nintendo's next-gen console > fans buy Ninty next-gen console etc,etc,etc...

partially like what happened with MGS. MGS1 in PS1, MGS2 and 3 in PS2, MGS4 in PS3 and MGS fans buying sony cosoles only to play their beloved franchise...

i hope i made some sense, i think i lost myself midway in the comment...

[ChickeyCantor]

"but we are going to deliver a better way to store the games."

Is the Wii in some way a "Varia suit" that can be upgraded by downloading data =o and expand to a powerfull machine 0_o.

All joking aside:
I seriously wonder what they will show..if its not a HDD, and certainly not a Holographic-storage writer(since those machines are hella big for now) I can't think of anything beside them willing to offer an Online HDD, but that would mean its going to be pretty slow for some bigger games since it basically means it has to stream content.

What could it be?!

[kesvalk]

If the Wii is a Varia Suit i want a Plasma Beam in Mine! gonna kill a Neighbor every time i can't get all 100 purple coins in SMG... XD

anyway if the sollution is steaming the Wiiware and VC games, it will not be better than re-downloading the game, option we already have...

like i said above, i think that breaking the limit of the SD card and giving the Wii acess to it's contents it's the better idea i can think of...

of course they can make a HDD with the nintendo brand put wireless technology in it, and rename it to "Nintendrive", of course some head would fall if they did that...

[ChickeyCantor]

"anyway if the sollution is steaming the Wiiware and VC games, it will not be better than re-downloading the game, option we already have"
Yeah i was thinking the same.
But using the SD slot will make piracy only more attractive.

[kesvalk]

they already tried to pirate Wiiware games, but the code used to recgonize the Wii don't let pirates do it, some attempts were made, but they proved to be dangerous to the console, so they were dropped.

damn, last bubble, see ya guys on another topic...

[ChickeyCantor]

"they already tried to pirate Wiiware games, but the code used to recgonize the Wii don't let pirates do it,"

Well they managed allot with the Zelda hack.

[TheExodus]

Nintendo could be working on a storage solution that has Samsung giving Blu-ray 5 years tops.

[Silogon]

These people saying Nintendo is going to trump Sony and Microsoft on the gamer Zone are funny as hell. What, streaming 10kb to 300kb games is a trump card now? sony's ben offering 2 and 3 and 9 gig games on the PSN for awhile now. Wake the F*CK up! Not to mention movies, full movies across XBL and PSN.

Nintendo, once again, is out of the loop as always. People like you idiots in the Gamer zone is why Nintendo keeps getting over with the public cos you all are idiots.

[ChickeyCantor]

The idiot (you) just had to type down something without even knowing what the actual Solution will be.

Do you even think? Or can't your brain take that?

[Silogon]

Do you, Turnip D*CK? I didn't say anything about the solution; they did moron. I'm going off what they are saying you stupid jerg off. Read the gamer zone you penile explosion in the mouth.

[ChickeyCantor]

"I'm going off what they are saying "
Exactly and calling them idiots only makes you the bigger idiot.
"Nintendo, once again, is out of the loop as always"
So if you where going off because of what they said, then why talk about Nintendo.

And look at all the big words you are using, my my.

[kesvalk]

He is Stupid and such, but "penile explosion on the mouth" was one of the funniest things i ever heard in the net.

famboys are amusing...

[ChickeyCantor]

Famboys, Sound like an oxymoron. xD

[Maxned]

You dont even know what the hell Nintendo is doing you idiot. Dont you realize that no one likes you on N4g?
And by the way, Nintendo was one of the first companies to contact manufacturers about Holographic Storage solutions. That would be a
"PENILE EXPLOSION" in Sony's mouth wouldnt it?

[N4g_null]

The funny thing sirgon is that we don't care if nintendo trumps the other two we just want a storage solution. I mean trumping a harddrive that I could buy for $49.99 160GB 7200rpm SATAII Hard Drive, 8MB Buffer, 3-Year WD Warranty when MS charges you an extra $100-300 for is not that hard but that isn't what we are expecting.

The simple fact is we don't care about those games that are gigs when games thank are barely a 100 megs get the job done way better and are consider classic.

Another important fact is Fanboys only effect other fanboys that is why their ranks shrink. I remember when shumups guys where all over the place, then the adventure guys , then the fighter and then tourney fighters. 5 posters on this site does not make up the voice of all Wii gamers and convincing us won't do any thing for you because most Wii fans don't have to force this system on top people. They try it and they like it or not then people move on with their life.

Fear doesn't sell systems it just make more people leave your ranks and of course they just end up frustrated with the whole gaming situation when perks become just a justification not and a reason for being excited.

Another thing too fans are not loyal in the first place because if you are a long time nintendo fan then you have nothing to complain about they have always been this way. Hey I keep things simple and you should too until a console makers does certain things I don't even mess with them. I mean the HD guys have abandon a large part of the hardcore with the price and selection of games.

I mean I'm more excited about the games coming to the Wii in the future than the hype driving hits that are coming to the HD systems. I mean it happens all people don't run off hype. I'd rather be addicted to playing games than hearing hype though.

Another thing is no company is evil for gaming. Either they get with the times and understand how to address every one or they die like sega's console biz. Hey it happens all the time SNK, NEC, hell they even had better game makers in house then. Technicly EA with the 3DO.

It's very obvious that MS and SONY are their own worst enemies along with their fanboys that keep them thinking they can win just by make them happy. Even PS fans know they need the casual gamers.

[steveg2564]

If they open up the SD card, they are opening up another avenue for piracy, don't you think?

[steveg2564]

@sidar
Sorry, I saw your post after I posted, but I do agree with you.

[ChickeyCantor]

actually TruthbeTold was before me...if i look at the time xD

[steveg2564]

You're right. Hot topic. Too many posts to keep up with. :-)

[Light Yagami]

Failure Nintendo!

[ChickeyCantor]

How so?
Care to share your argument?

Why did anyone disagree? How can you disagree? WTF?
I'm just curious why he thinks it's a failure.
Holy sh/t reasoning with people is bad these days =/.

[supremacy]

this article pretty much sums up how nintendo is keeping themselves away from paying anything to anyone,

you know nintendo avoiding taking a loss even if its a small one such as including a hard drive.

no offense but i think nintendo is pathetic. cheap hardware, cheap software.

and even cheap marketing and ads.

of course both the DS and wii are a source of recouping from losses they accumulated through several (N64 and Gamecube)generations heck if it weren't for the gameboy line nintendo as console manufacture would have die right after the gamecube days.

even MS almost called it quicks until halo 2 came along and help push that system to new grounds.

sony however has always been fortunate due to their expertise in hardware manufacturing and hardware and device inclusions.

if there is one thing i have learned all these years is that nintendo always makes a system in which they are really the ones making money on it, third parties don't generally make any money on its platforms.

with the exception of a few.

at least now ms has even manage to create a descent machine that offers pretty much everything "a this" generation gamers desire.

from a far superior tech to that off the wii, with lots of support and games to an un-match online service.

also there is sony, this time they have manage to exceed my expectations, they have outdone themselves once more in the technical field, i mean out of the 3 they are the ones taking on a greater to ask for risk with the inclusion of new tech under the hood. the cell? blu ray these things while are holding sony back on the profit side, are also proving beneficiary else where to them as well as to us.

i mean who doesn't watch blu ray films on their ps3s? or take full advantage of the free online service? these are great things that while it costs these companies money they are willing to say you know what? f*ck it.

nintendo on the other hand... has gone a different rout, a cheaper rout and the sad thing is many people seem to not mind at all, sure some of the games are fun at first...

but than thats it. people always come up to me and tell the same thing, that they have a wii but they usually don't use it as often as they do their 360 or their ps3.

the wii in my personal opinion is cheap, and i don't mean it in a good way either.

there games? 50% of old ps2 ports, luckily they don't have god of war there and thats because its a sony property but other than that, that would have been a game you would see on the shelves retailing for the price of newer games.

that right there is horrible. because regardless if that game was a success or not, that simply doest mean it will be a success because of the wii's sales?

exactly what are the games that sell on the wii? wii fit? thats not so much of a game, as it is something a fat person would use for self esteem purposes.

in which case you can head to the gym and meet some people while you at it, or play some basketball and you'll see that works out better for anyone.

no dvd playback? ok thats understandable its a game machine, and im cool with that. but what about online?

c'mon even sony's got the massage and to be honest they aren't doing a bad job either.

but what about nintendo?

things have changed many people like to play together, even if that means being in different places of the world.

wii it stands for us, yet you cant play with someone else unless you are both in the same room, lol c'mon. seriously.

and than there are those lousy last gen graphics. do you know how beautiful and perhaps how much more enjoyable a game like say metriod would have been, had it used atleast the unreal engine 2? had a game like that looked anything like gears or killzone 2?

and how fun and how much better had a game like smash bros could have been, if say they "atleast" had an online service like sony's psn?

and as far retro gaming goes, i think it would have had many at ease knowing they at least had a 40gb hard drive where to store these games? i know they aren't that big but as time progresses many classic will continue to come.

on the positive side, nintendo deserves my respect only because they are very creative in their own ways, and they have proven time through time that they can innovate.

but other than that, i don't see the wii as a purchase.

and just to let anyone here know, this is just my opinion im just expressing myself im not here to try to suede or convince anyone into or out of anything. just keep that in mind folks.

[ChickeyCantor]

"cheap software."
= Profits = healthy for the industry.
When a company has more money they can take on bigger projects.

"exactly what are the games that sell on the wii? wii fit? thats not so much of a game, as it is something a fat person would use for self esteem purposes.
"

...A wide variaty of games DO sell on the Wii.
You pretend Wii is a disaster for sales charts.
It's doing better than you actually think, do your research.
Not 50% of Wii games are ports.

[kesvalk]

so, the nintendo software is bad... strange i thought nintendo has fame of producing good games...

[Time_Is_On_My_Side]

lol, the way you write is unattractive to the eye so many people might not read it. Me being one of them and I thought I write a lot.

[Lithium powered]

"of course both the DS and wii are a source of recouping from losses they accumulated through several (N64 and Gamecube)generations heck if it weren't for the gameboy line nintendo as console manufacture would have die right after the gamecube days."

I'm fairly certain that the Nintendo gamecube was making profits of about $30 per console sold; may not sound like much but it was selling in the green (unlike sony and microsoft consoles who sell their consoles at a loss at first and make up their profits via software sales). In fact im fairly certain all nintendo consoles were designed to post a profit.

Here's an excerpt from an article entitled "the Nintendo method" by gameinvestor.com:

"However, what's most remarkable about Nintendo is not its current performance but the consistency of its financial performance over the last decade or so, a period in which its consoles, from generation to generation, have sold in decreasing volumes and it has lost considerable market share to new market entrants. Despite this, Nintendo's financial results have been surprisingly uniform with revenues around the 500 billion Yen mark (£2.2 billion) and operating profits (total profits before taxes and exceptional costs such as losses derived from adverse exchange rate movements) of around 100 billion Yen (£446 million). Net profits have varied a little more widely, largely because of Yen/US Dollar exchange rate movements, but for the most part have remained around the 90 billion Yen mark (£400 million)."

Source: "The Nintendo method" Gameinvestor.com, January 2007
< http://www.gamesinvestor.co...

[rbluetank]

The wii was not supposed to sale as much as it did and has to date...counting. They made a cheap console with the fewest liability inside of it so the loses would not ruin the company if it did sale well.. The one liner about "its about game play" is -uishit at face value. If you wanted gameplay grab your ps2 and the library of great game to satisfy your hungry..not the sloppy joe's sandwiches of Next gen-not console.(Wii) There was no future design spec AKA Blue Ray or high definition games.., memory capacity and ect... Imagine eating a peanut butter sandwich made out of soybeans and grape favored tofu. nasty.. right well that what you got.. live with it. The Wii was a sucker bet of a fool is born faster then roaches at a taco bell on cinco de mayo and they won't run when you turn on the light of Truth on them. The Wii is next to last gen then next Gen...period. The face value is that you already got your $250 worthy; now move on and quite flaming a bad choice of spendage on a next gen-not console.

1) no high Def games outside of 320pi.

2) No storage capacity over 256mb.. you can only buy this at a flea market because nobody is sell this storage capacity anymore for a profit.

3) There is no future/forwarder thinking as of today. the sloppy joe console of next to gen-not consoles; besides making a new console with the future in mind besides economic based and free spirted people in spending money on "gameplay" / not common sense in Next Gen gaming. there are more but i am tired now..

[Mahr]

....What?

[N4g_null]

"There is no future/forwarder thinking as of today. the sloppy joe console of next to gen-not consoles; besides making a new console with the future in mind besides economic based and free spirted people in spending money on "gameplay" / not common sense in Next Gen gaming."

Common sense would tell you to buy a PC or just upgrade your GPU. Consoles have always been fun boxes not wanna be PCs. The PS2 was a fun box that came with a "free" dvd player when every one wanted one.

Not too much about the PS3 or xbox is new territory when you can get most of that stuff needed for gaming on a PC for much cheaper and with a harddrive of your choice.

The funny thing is this sloppy job console is about to have the best 3d control ever with 1:1 control.

The HD gen is old news I'm curious as to what the next refresh is going to be for MS and SONY. I'm more excited for MS offering be cause of rumors pointing to these chips http://www.extremetech.com/...

The only sloppy joes I see are the ones that are coated with sparkling car paint that you call HD gen. Trying to do HD gaming better than what it is mimicking the PC. It does an ok job yet it doesn't really get the job done controller wise and even graphics wise.

So stop acting all elite when the HD gen is just a bad in between for real HD gaming on the PC. Hell SONY and MS can not even support their own systems with system moving software. At this point Dell could get in the console making business. The other two are a joke and no one is laughing. I really hope they get their stuff together and stop listening to the so called hardcore because every one else is not buying their cool aid. Make some fun games and fix your controllers so we can play FPS with out gimped controls and nerfed game play.

[N4g_null]

The only fools of this gen are the ones paying too much for blu ray players and broken systems that charge you for access to online gaming when your already paying an ISP. No one is playing a PS2 unless some thing new comes out on it worth playing. Hell the VC game are way better than PS2 games any way. I mean really it took the DS to get contra right? Hell if any thing I'll be playing a DS and playing DVDs in my PS2 so my DVD player doesn't break. No one really liked the PS brand we just liked the games coming to it yet now it's a dry up waste land.

I mean People are complaining about the Wii not having enough space to save games on, not the PS3 or the xbox 360. They have huge amounts of space for what? Games, movies, demos? Who cares we need space for the Wii. Because we actually like downloading stuff to it we actually will play way more. No one cares about the other systems they have nothing to play so who cares.

When they have some thing to play or worth buying the system then we will talk about those systems in a Wii news post. Other wise we don't care. I'm ready for a PS4 or xbox 720 anyway I mean it would be nice for them to have some benefit rather than trying to mimic PC gaming which I ready play games on.

Another thing is we are not Wii fans we just need a solution for the system we own we don't need to be converted to the church of HD OK.

[Time_Is_On_My_Side]

That Nintendo doesn't support HD (High Definition) and a vast majority of the games are mini games, it would be pretty easy to stream everything. The most the Wii disc can hold is 8.54GB (Dual Layer) so Nintendo is trying to be smart by looking more advanced than the competition, lol.

Nintendo is just using very old technology and mixing it with the new; Sony should do that with the Original PlayStation games by choice. That's if Nintendo is going that route.

[Product]

Funny everything silogon writes about the benefits on owning ps3 or xbox i have been doing with my computer for 10 years now.
Nintendo behind the loop who isnt behind the loop if you own a computer.

[kesvalk]

but try to say that to someone that have nothing better to do and attach himself to a piece of plastic and chips...

there is no reason to talk with fanboys...

[N4g_null]

THIS IS GOING TO BE INTERESTING!

I wonder what they will do. Nintendo came up with their own optical disk and they made the zip drive like 64dd drive which used magnetic disk. Could they be going back to that? Nintendo likes to make use of their new attachments by making games that can not exsist with out the attachment. Could we be looking at a F-zero with a track editor? A simple Wii game with out an add on is rather odd. Yes I'm looking at you Wii music. Could this thing have a storage medium tied to it so you can sequence your own songs and use a sampler? That would be wishful thinking.

I mean the 64dd even had a 3d model making app for it and since the Wii has 1:1 movement coming a new creation tool would be fun.

[supremacy]

@sidar -

sidar -
"cheap software."
= Profits = healthy for the industry.
When a company has more money they can take on bigger projects.

in other words shovel ware is the way to go. if you were owner of a movie/game company or even a director i wouldn't hire you for squat. do you know how much a game like GTA 4 cost to make? 100 million but, it sells for 60 a pop, now calculate the revenue a company like rockstar is currently making of this game.

that's a lot more money than what nintendo is currently making of those cheap games, never mind gta, cod 4 halo 3 among others. movies are the same deal take the dark knight, that movie cost 185 million to make, but in less than 2 weeks it already had surpass what it too to make the film in the 1st and currently its sitting there at 500 million and change.

but if the product flops than its bad, but isn't that what we've been talking about? nintendo's strategy of ho to avoid making any lost?

"exactly what are the games that sell on the wii? wii fit? thats not so much of a game, as it is something a fat person would use for self esteem purposes.
"

sidar -...A wide variaty of games DO sell on the Wii.

like? nintendo made games period, thus you are only making my point the more evident. i mean besides zelda which is also nintendo brand, sold well but check this out, this is also the same game that was due out on the gamecube, only nintendo decided to hold it back on the cube version in favor of the wii version of the same game, due of course to the grand launch of the system itself.

and if i could remember correctly wii sports, which by the way came bundle with every wii system, which is also why you and many have to pay 250 for the console in the first place you dig?

sidar -You pretend Wii is a disaster for sales charts.

no, i don't pretend, and nor i ever mention its a disaster either, but..for it being the the number one console it sure is dead last my friend. last i checked the 360 lead in attach rate sales. the ps2 was not only been the number 1 platform in its time, but it was also the leader in attach rate sales as well my friend.

sidar -It's doing better than you actually think, do your research.

i don't think anyone needs to do any research to know exactly how good the wii is doing these days and no one is taking that away. yeah its selling more consoles than the competition, but even a blind man can tell you that's only due to its price really.

i already told you, the 360 has a smaller install base than the wii according to the numbers yet, it has a higher attach rate than it? so again it's got to be the price because we all know you cant do anything else with it but play games.

in fact the 360 arcade model is just like a wii when it comes to the no hard drive policy, except its a superior system with a superior online service of which the wii doesnt even have.

and whats sad is that its going for 50 bucks less than the wii. we'll have to wait and see how the wii fairs out against this in the next several months.

and just in case you decide to bring up past generations here, i will go on the record and say sega tried the whole 200 bucks thing and look where that got them, than nintendo being in a similar financial hole at the time as sega does the same with the gamecube and we all know how they fair out in the end don't we?

but not to contradict myself here, the only reason why the wii is selling like it is, simple, its price.

now the difference between the wii and say the sega dreamcast or the gamecube for that matter is.. well lets just say its competitors didn't cost 200 or 150 dollars more, they cost only 99 more which at the time the economy was still in fair shape, there fore making them seem affordable even though they cost more.

unlike now where things are limited to a more wise, but more budget approach than before, its easy to why a cheap system could win in this case. also consider the sku, its only one when compare to the competition this in japan is goal.

one sku means no headache on choosing on which version benefits you or if another sku is going to come out soon. and due to the nature of the way a casual gamer would think i say they wouldn't stand making sku decisions the hardcore would easily make.

"Not 50% of Wii games are ports."

oh ok you got me there its not 50% its more like 49 and a half percent, "there i hope that makes you happy now?

okami prince of Persia resident evil 4 also a gamecube port if you will, and now get this tecmo is porting ps2 flop, "rygar" to the system, and we all know why tecmo has decided to make more wii games as of late lol.

i say they are right about there with snk and all the small cheap companies that develop exclusivity for the wii medium.

Man..i didn't want to have to say this but, if you are new to the game you better off boycotting the wii, in favor of any of the last gen consoles(ps2/xbox/gamecube), i mean you get the same games you are getting now for the wii at a higher price, for.. what? 20? and even 10 bucks in some places, plus more and better ACTUAL games for less as well.

heck even sony's psn features bigger, badder, better games than what you will ever find on the wii lol i mean warhawk, wipeout HD, Socom
Tekken, ect for less?

man i tell you to me, the wii isn't worth sh*t.

[SolidSnake93]

Nice speech lol.

[N4g_null]

to supremacy we are not here to teach just talk the facts.

Yeah nice speech there. The Wii is not selling because of price along. I really hope MS knows this. I could have easily bought 3 xboxes by now instead of buying SLI cards and what not. Seriously it's the software and the controls. MS just doesn't do games it's that simple.

Seriously man the game has changed and you are using old rules from a limited play book. The Xbox arcade has pretty good hardware but it just doesn't have game that make you go wow I really want to play that game on an xbox 360 controller! Really it doesn't and that's the simple reason why even the PS3 is gaining on it.

I mean I don't mind live but it is only superior to people who don't mind being taxed to use what they already have. Yes it has some cool feature for you but really lots of people don't care about those feature if I have to pay for them, when most of those features are standard in PC gaming. Hey but once MS starts getting you guys to pay for some thing just know you'll never get it for free now.

"so i guess you are right on that front they had to go the cheap rout in other to succeed and luckily it all worked out, thanks to some good comments from the media, good pr spins and the whole intentional shortages that they been having couple with the smaller booth that they had when compared to sony's and ms's space at that e3, it got crowded and suddenly nintedo uses that as an advantage. what a joke. lol"

Dude how many people are in your family? The media, PR spin or shortages did not sell the Wii. It was the fact that that thanksgiving every one played one then you had uncles talking about it. Then you had moms happy about it. Then you had even people tired of the fanboi driven fan sites like this one talking about a game system again.

MS tried the shortage thing and it did not work. When the PS3 beat them they blamed it on a shortage. They got burned hard on that one. I mean really I don't buy stuff just because it's cheaper man and like most people I buy stuff because I want it. I mean I guess that's hard for kids to understand but when you have a good $600+ to spend on tech goodies that don't matter when ever you want you start looking for things you want once your play room gets cluttered.

Your whole thing about attach rates is sort of lame because I seriously believe the xbox 360 player simply are buying more because they are willing to blow more money on hyped games that they won't be playing in 1 months time. I mean really UT3 did not sell on the PC simply because no one believed the hype because 2004 sort of sucked. Yet 360 player are hungry for a reason to keep justify the system. Lots have given up on it and moved to the PS3.

Then I come to the truth of the matter. The Wii simply did not have a lot of 3rd party support. Games that would have pushed the Wii's attachment rate where simply not released on the system. It's very similar to the PS2 vs xbox1 scenario. PS2 owners where buying games just because their was more choice. This is a similar reason why the Wii is only slightly behind the xbox 360 when you take out Wii sports and play.

The shovelware you speak of is not that successful because it was made as shovel ware. I have not play carnival games but I hear people saying it's fun. To me Halo was shovel ware along with lots of FPS on the 360... It's a matter of opinion. Sure lots of people bought it yet it still sucks to me. It's nerfed FPS action.

"the real reason behind the 360's attach rates come in, due to xbox live, don't believe check out the numbers, of people playing on xbox everyday, anything from achivment whores to the ocasional oh you got that game than ill get it so can kick your you know what on xbox live. this is also where nintendo fail big time at least sony has something for its gamers in the form of the psn is which is slowly making its strides."

So you just explain why the live network is lame did you not. People are simply buying games because of junk talking. The fact that you can anonymously talk junk to some one makes you guys want to play. Don't people do that in IRC and other IM programs online? I mean I really don't need to know who I'm playing or contact them nintendos match making system works I can beat the hell out of people in brawl, mario kart and even find people just like in live in most of EA games for you know free. I mean that is possible because you know most PC games come with their own network set up for this. Hell even blast works lets you download stuff other people have created. I mean you have live and you are barred from even trading UT3 levels WOW. You pay for that service also ouch! I mean gamers even PS3 owners always talk about this live crap because they where once Live subscribers LOL.

I mean really like sidar said research what you are talking about man. Every thing you speak of sounds like you read it off this sight. We all know this site is mostly wrongs and opinion based. I mean every one tought AOL was a great service too until roadrunner etc. Live almost mirrors that service for gaming. Hey but if that is great for you then great.

MS definitely showed that the industry is growing and way more gullible gamers are out there than before. No one has the money to pay for the media, the tech loss, a internet tax setup as a blessing than MS. We all know that and you bought into it along with lots of other adult gamers that where wet behind the ears to online gaming. If you are a long time gamer then I will mark this brainwashing down to you wanting a change after PS brand and SONY spanked every one so long.

Seriously there is a reason many nintendo fans don't come to this site, it's because Wii sales are spawning more sale by way of word of mouth and actually playing is believing situations. A kiosk for the Wii even does better than a HD kiosk even though hardly any one plays kiosk any more. I mean explain that buy price? Well if the xbox has RROD you could blame that on price.

MS is just the first to fall. They simply don't have the skills necessary to beat nintendo this round. That skill is making games people want to play. If the Wii was so boring not one would even remember it after being sold out for this long. That fad phase does not last for years. I hope HD fans sit back and realize it's not all in the price but it's in the games. Most people don't care if some one thinks they are hardcore so they really don't care about a gamers opinion of them.

[Mahr]

"if you were owner of a movie/game company or even a director i wouldn't hire you for squat."

This is one of the reasons why you are not in charge of a major corporation.

"last i checked the 360 lead in attach rate sales"

A. Attach rates are a terrible measure.

B. The 360's been out longer than the competition. It would be a failure if it *didn't* have a huge lead in game-tie numbers.

"that's a lot more money than what nintendo is currently making of those cheap games. nevermind gta, cod 4 halo 3 among others"

Um, if "making money", means "earning a profit", then, uh, no. If I recall correctly, the 360 had an operating profit of four or five hundred million for a full year. Granted the DS is a huge chunk of its earnings, but Nintendo made that times ten in a quarter of a year.

"i already told you, the 360 has a smaller install base than the wii according to the numbers yet, it has a higher attach rate than it?"

Yes, because it's been out for a year longer. Generally, as consoles get older, their attach rates go up. Also, attach rates are meaningless.

"than nintendo being in a similar financial hole at the time as sega does the same with the gamecube and we all know how they fair out in the end don't we?"

Uh, yeah. The Gamecube brought in about the same yearly profit the 360's bringing in now while the Xbox bled red ink to the tune of something like 4 billion dollars throughout its lifetime.

[supremacy]

dude nothing of what you just wasted your time typing makes any sense that i had to laugh when i read it all lol.

explain to me why would a system which has a larger install base than its competitors have a lower attach rate? a year lead? that makes no sense because i hear i sat think isn't games why people buy a console for? yet you have a console on top of the world but games are selling better elsewhere? no matter how you slice it, your statement has no credibility on this front.

so...basically you are telling me that the only thing that sells on the 360 are halo games? last time i checked, pretty much every multi-platform games has sold extremely well on the 360.

anything from gta4 cod 4 to guitar hero you name it. and yeah sure let's compare handheld the new hot kid on the block against consoles, thats a good analogy which i wouldn't mind stomping to the grown, look cheap things sell better they always will, but the earnings will never be comparable as was with the case of blu ray and HD dvd.

So by what you are saying even though you don't have any links or sources to is, that i should believe when you tell me, that a game like halo 3 which sold a great deal of copies isn't worth mention in the same breath as nintendo and their profits? hell both halo 2 and halo 3 sole so well that they were even compare to movie openings along with gta4.

Tell me how much did metriod prime sell? and how much money did nintendo make on that? you see, ms isn't making much of a profit like nintendo is but they are slowly creeping up. thats were the attach rates come in you dig?

why bother making hardcore games for the hardcore on a system that only sell tools like wii fit? lol. okay okay mario kart and smash bro wohoo. so everything else doesn't show up on the radar either, so how can you come up and tell me that they are making more profits, i sure hope you don't mean on software either. and now go ahead say what you are going to say.

and also do you really think a company like MS at this point in time cares too much about making a profit as they do more about market share?

they don't really have to make the money on this gen they could easily make that on the next gen, as long they grow their user base.

dude nintendo now is starting to make its money back, both sony and MS have spare theirs in different ways.

i mean if nintendo would have fail this generation they would have been like sega making their games for the other two platforms at least both ms and sony have other endeavor that they can both rely on.

nintendo don't and couldn't afford and quote and repeat what im saying couldn't afford going toe to toe with both sony and ms money wise so they had to build something they could afford making. even they themselves admitted before the wii launched that they had the wii pegged as an experiment why you think they made so cheap?

so i guess you are right on that front they had to go the cheap rout in other to succeed and luckily it all worked out, thanks to some good comments from the media, good pr spins and the whole intentional shortages that they been having couple with the smaller booth that they had when compared to sony's and ms's space at that e3, it got crowded and suddenly nintedo uses that as an advantage. what a joke. lol

and another thing the dreamcast had a one year lead and the ps2 still out grew it and build a higher attach rate than it? so what are you trying to say here?

you see your little statement makes no sense to little if any.

the real reason behind the 360's attach rates come in, due to xbox live, don't believe check out the numbers, of people playing on xbox everyday, anything from achivment whores to the ocasional oh you got that game than ill get it so can kick your you know what on xbox live. this is also where nintendo fail big time at least sony has something for its gamers in the form of the psn is which is slowly making its strides.

you ask nintendo about this and they will tell you they don't care about online, in other words another way of escaping losses lol oh man. so if this is how they are making their profits ( by avoiding having to take a loss of any size whether big or small) than good for them its working, cheap bastards lol.

and we all cant take wii connect seriously now, so please don't waste your time bringing it up either because it wont do you any good. seriously.

go ahead say what you want now i know your probably sitting at home dying to. ill wait for you on the open zone since i have run out of bubbles.

that is if you think yo can teach me something. but of course that doesn't just go to you but to anyone who thinks they can teach something i may not know. if there is anything.

and just for the record, i don't hate nintendo, i think they are a very smart company and my gratitude goes to them always for being part of the foundation of this industry we so much to talk about.

but..i tell it, like i see it. and if you have a problem with that, thats not my problem lets just say that.

[Product]

"and than there are those lousy last gen graphics. do you know how beautiful and perhaps how much more enjoyable a game like say metriod would have been, had it used atleast the unreal engine 2? had a game like that looked anything like gears or killzone 2? "
You think Killzone looks good....have you ever played Crysis?
Please pc games will always trump consoles .......graphics on a console shouldnt be a selling point.Gameplay should.

[supremacy]

that, but i also disagree, yeah the pc is there but c'mon whose going to pay the price to play one? game? when you got actual next gen consoles like the 360 and the ps3 which can give you games like ala wake, heavy rain, gears 2,killzone 2, (batman arkham asylum? which use the new unreal 3 engine?)

and no i don't bring up the pc because the pc isn't a console. the wii, the 360 and the ps3 are.

and besides whats good are some gameplay when the console you buy its bare use? after the first couple weeks? lol nice try but the wii isn't revolutionary in anyway shape or form.

i mean look the controls don't make the games, the games and how they are built around those controls make the controls otherwise no one would own any other platforms, what do games like gear and god of war have in common? good gameplay which if you ask me, its all that matters right?

but if the games lack everything else, than is cool with you because gameplay is what counts right? lol everything in a game counts, and that would include graphics otherwise you wouldn't have mention crysis.

[AWBrawler]

I find it funny how Nintendo and Sony swapped places. I remember joking sying it'd be funny if that happened back when the wii was the revolution. Now PS fans are talking about the past all the time and acting like they pioneered modern gaming. At least when Nintendo fans said that stuff it was true. Oh and sorry sony, but you'll never amass the legion of loyal fans Nintendo has, because they where never sony fans to start with they were MGS, FF, DMC, and Kingdom Hearts fans, none of which are owned by sony and all but DMC has made its way to a nintendo console.

[SolidSnake93]

Kh and MGS are on a current gen Nintendo console?

[supremacy]

think worked on the super nintendo with nintendo?

it was sony. aight than. even the playstation was suppose to be another nintendo sony joint product, c'mon those two roots are tie in like kennedy and monroe.

[PirateThom]

Sony did pioneer modern gaming, or at least made gaming mainstream and relevent again.

Deny it, but the gaming industry wouldn't be as big now if it wasn't for the PlayStation

[N4g_null]

Pirate tom so do you think SONY would have made the NES back in the day? I mean gaming was main stream because of mario back in the day man. I mean really PS just tried to make it cool that's all. They where better at that than sega. If SONY did really understand how to make this main stream then they wouldn't really on a disk format to do this every single generation. SONY couldn't make beta max main stream nor are they doing a good job with blu ray.

You guys are starting to show how hardcore you really are you know. I would expect this stuff from 12 years and If you are 12 then I'm sorry if I insult you but really you guys should know your hobby a little better. This is a disappointment of a convo.

"who do you
think worked on the super nintendo with nintendo?

it was sony. aight than. even the playstation was suppose to be another nintendo sony joint product, c'mon those two roots are tie in like kennedy and monroe."

Get your facts str8 man. SONY only helped with the cd drive in an effort to fight sega's CD drive. Nintendo did get a SONY sound chip from SONY due to Krazy Ken making deals behind SONYs back. I mean really the SNES was not really a SONY joint venture it never was. I say making deal behind SONY back because I'm sure SONY wanted their name on the front of every SNES but nintendo was able to get the chip like any other keyboard maker LOL.

Oh yeah the point is SONY has no 1st part titles that sale like nintendo's first party titles. 3rd parties are only loyal to the guys that make them money and from what I'm seeing people are cutting back from HD development as if it was PC development because lots of companies where in the red last quarter.

I mean it's ok for the console makers to be in the red that's part of the plan right? but 3rd parties can not afford that type of business.

He is only saying that 3rd parties are like girl friends they are not that loyal if you are not what they want any more.

I mean please tell me you are looking forward to those RARE game or another HALO. Yeah Killzone I hope it's better than the last one. Graphics updates are a given but it has yet to show me why I should stop gaming on my PC.

Oh and how did the Wii do that well I mean sin and punishment and some of my favorite games are on the VC and then I get great updates to game that would come to the PC or HD console along with games that are not even ported to the HD consoles coming out. Not to mention a FPS with online and Wii mote play. You can talk about waggle all you want but you will get shot in conduit come this fall, like I was playing quake 3 believe that.

[rbluetank]

"The only fools of this gen are the ones paying too much for blu ray players and broken systems that charge you for access to online gaming when your already paying an ISP."

I am to assume that you have your vhs beer back with your wii on a non high def TV. I only have one blue ray movie and thats 300. I have a ps3 and a 360 and paying $50 for online servcie is better then no online service and 50 256mb sd cards with Qbert and marble madness ect... AKA sloppy joe's sandwiches of next gen-not console. Wii weather channel does not count as online service

"Not too much about the PS3 or xbox is new territory when you can get most of that stuff needed for gaming on a PC for much cheaper and with a harddrive of your choice."

I am buying current gen or next to next gen console for too much money.?? The meaning of Next gen is Next gen or at least current with bells / whistles. The point you are making is flood by what you just said.

"Hell the VC game are way better than PS2 games any way."

You bought a $250 dollar at base next gen-not console to play last gen greatest hits;when your ps,ps2,xbox,super nes, n64, Sega,Atrai 2600 and pong machines are still working properly. who can not see the fire amongst the smoke...?? You are drowning yourself with your own words.. The Wii is not even current.

The funny thing is this sloppy job console is about to have the best 3d control ever with 1:1 control.

I am tired but my hears still hear uishiat.. the controller will be 1.1. Imagine going to a Mexican resturant on cinco de mayo and trying out the entire menu. you goto the bathroom and tug on the tissue and its 1ply. "AKA last gen" I will bet you that most of the iushit is on your hand instead of the toilet; but if you had next gen tissue "aka 2ply". You would feel confident in the future when you shake someone hands after leaving the bathroom 10lbs lighter. We in the next gen know you guy's got uishit on your hands..that why we talk about the Wii. The Wii commercial should come on right after "pad or applicator commercial. What good is having a 1.1 controller when you are playing Redsteel type graphic and gameplay games..?? huH

I will talk about the "games" sunday... tired..FYI i am sorry for the lost of $250 on a bad concept.

[steveg2564]

No matter what ply you use you should still wash your hands with soap and water. That's old school hygiene.

[N4g_null]

Assumption is the mother of all Fckups. I don’t really use a VCR anymore all of that was captured on DVDs that I remaster my self with some pretty good applications but I do have a few Dv tape capture units. I have a few HDtvs also and an HD projector. PCs are hooked up to most of them since when I upgrade I upgrade the whole PC system so what better use for an old PC than hooking them up to HDtvs. My Wii is on one of these HDtvs but it displays like an HD console *gasp* because I bought a TV with a line doubler and one with DLP built in. I have all of this stuff set up on routers that are wireless.

So I have PC set up on these TVs and now two Wiis because I got one free with a TV weird huh? Sears had a sale so I just got one for free (a Wii) wired huh? So I can use my wireless keyboard to surf the web on my PC or my Wii. I have the highest speed online service I can get. Brawl plays just fine along with other online games along with the weather channel that I never use , does live even have an internet browser?. Yet the VC channel gets lots of use and I’m not playing Qbert I mean you can’t think of any really classic VC games? I even told you I was playing sin and punishment do you even know what that is? I mean how many games from treasure is on your system’s online service?

Instead of paying for a service, I’m using that money for VC games that I save on a SD card and then back up to MY PC in the same room on a terabyte drive. Hell I’ll be making a DVD of my games soon or whenever I get to it. I’m not saying this to brag but I just showing you man. I’m a very hardcore gamer and I’m not poor be any means. I’ll be in line for whatever the storage solution is yet I’ll still back up my games on to my PC, I even back up my save files hard drives crash all the time.

Hell If you wanted the same set up I could even tell you what to buy for cheap. I’ve had people ask me if the Wii was HD before seriously. DLP is sweet tech for HDtvs even for a 40 plus inch TV.

"Not too much about the PS3 or xbox is new territory when you can get most of that stuff needed for gaming on a PC for much cheaper and with a harddrive of your choice."

"Hell the VC game are way better than PS2 games any way."

I don’t see the problem? Point is the HD systems are competing for my HD money which is going to better HD set ups like ummm say a real PC with free online gaming and real stat tracking. Someone also said that PS2 games where available on the PS3 and for download… My response is I don’t care because a lot of those games suck to me thus VC games are better people still put them in lists for greatest games. Only a young Fanboy or someone new to gaming would say the opposite since he only knows about PS brand retro gaming.

I don’t have a turbo graphix16 I have a broken neo geo right now LOL and I had a PC engine and I gave my SNES away when it start changing colors. Most of these games I don’t want in the physical form because I’m not collecting them I’m playing them and if something happens to them then I can just re-download them. You are simply choosing to see what you want in order to make an argument against the Wii. The Wii IS the most traditional console and it is way more current than using controller I’ve never liked for 3d games and 2d games.

I mean really if you talk HD gen gaming PCs win and if you talk retro gaming and traditional gaming the Wii wins?The Wii even wins the arket that the PS brand forgot about the casuals and it even carved out it’s own market which is blue ocean. If I really want blu ray I’ll buy a drive for my PCs which are connected to my HDtvs any way. I’m happy on both sides because I found solutions for my own problems like most hardcore gamers out there. Maybe I just was not impressed because I expected more out of a HD gen console.

I mean your Mexican food and toilet tissue paper analogy only works if you don’t know how to fold toilet paper right? I mean you do know how to do that right? The fact that you think the Wii commercial should come on after a “pad or applicator commercial” shows just how you think about gaming. You think it’s a popularity contest. Gaming does not make you cool man and it never will. Who you are makes you cool. The only people pissed this gen are the HD guys who have a lot of Sh1t on their hands simply because they paid for only one thing or they were promised some things. GC owners had the same problem.

To use you toilet situation since that appeals to you I will set up something you should be able to understand. You go to the same restaurant and eat a load of food then you head to the bathroom where you find yourself in a situation where you have to feed dollars into the stall to get in to it. I mean you just could not wait so you feed in a 10 dollar bill when it only needs 5. Your fine with this because you’re in there now you can get down to business. You drop your load and you find that yes it has 2 ply tissue yet you have to pay for this also, it’s better tissue tech right? But in your mind you know access to the tissue is free in most cases. Hey just to talk you into it they offer you a head set so you can hear others curse as they get their jobs done. You’re like WOW that’s cool I can yell louder than him for some points less achievement. The toilet is getting quite full and you need to flush but you can’t because the damn toilet RROD. You can not even finish taking a dump you call the service number thorough your hi tech head set they tell you to move to another toilet free of charge where the same happens all over again. You head home and come back later because you just have to have Mexican food.I mean you really like the Mexican food there but you don’t want to use those toilets any more so you use the toilets that have blu ray on them but they cost even more like $40 and the only thing extra you really get is a two hour movie in HD. So a smart consumer learns how to cook Mexican or order take out and use his own toilet, which is what would be doing. Most hardcore gamers on this site are like people that would make a scene at the restaurant and keep coming back thinking that will change what people think. Nothing is going to change if no one other than you see your problem as a problem for them.

I’m not sure what you mean by the redsteel ,which I would be talking about part 2 because motion control sucked for that game, comment hey it may be good or maybe not I mean ubisoft did make ass-creed which sucked also even with the PC version being better. If the motion+ Wii resort can make lots of nay say-ers perk up after using it I think ubisoft could have a chance at making part 2 a good game.

FYI thanks for your apology but I’m fine and may family loves my set up along with all my hardcore gaming friends. We all tend to share experiences since I do have people with a Wii and xbox and PS3 that I know simply because they like to show off the games graphics they are working on I do the same on their systems LOL. So just know I’ve played MGS4 and help to beat than game and even talked about how people where ok with installs to the hard drive while playing though the game. I won’t be buying any of these systems till they offer traditional game play on their systems.
I’m sorry for your lost after buying two HD console potentially just to get the most out of HD gaming with last gen controls. I mean really man good luck with that. The HD console maybe will help Nvidia get some funds ready for the next gen push but really they did not need HD gaming consoles to make money off HD gaming.

If you still want to talk or argue after this we I'll see you in the open zone ok? Good talk anyway lots of people can take some thing away from this conversation.

[SolidSnake93]

Just make the harddrive and suck it up.

[Eamon]

I couldn't agree less

[InfiniteUnfloppery]

If the Wii 2 does not utilize the Powerful Blu Ray Storage Medium I fear Nintendo will have Dropped The Ball once again

[InfiniteUnfloppery]

Using a CELL powered Wii would truly define the Waggle Market,this is why we strongly encourage Nintendo to Invest into our Leading Processor Technology

[InfiniteUnfloppery]

Since Blu Ray Technology will in fact last for the next 10 Years,Nintendo have nothing to worry about when it comes to Licensing the Award Winning Disc Format;Both the Wii 2 and Wii 3 will benefit from the Advantages of Blu Ray

[InfiniteUnfloppery]

Nintendo have a strong back Catalog of Software Titles that would benefit from Online Distribution,and this is why we at Sony would like to Share some of our Network Engineers,we believe we can Help them elevate their Online Service to greater Heights much like we have done our own

[ChickeyCantor]

okai just one more!! =D!

[AWBrawler]

Snake was on gamecube, and he's in brawl. Kingdom Hearts was on GBA, and DS is getting an exclusive. What kind of question was that?

[Aft3rKill]

They may conceder cloud storage but they also have to keep in mind that many WII owners don't have a internet connection. So it has to be Hardware and not "software".

[AWBrawler]

I'm not taking anything from the playstation, but Sony themselves have not released any good game outside of God of war, unless you're an ape escape fan. By, your logic every great game to date is a Nintendo or atari game, cause thats what system they started on.

[Tiberium]

that is one hell of a post jeez man

[Mahr]

"dude nothing of what you just wasted your time typing makes any sense that i had to laugh when i read it all lol."

No offense, but this is because you are likely still in middle school.

"explain to me why would a system which has a larger install base than its competitors have a lower attach rate?"

Because attach rates tend to favor systems with few users. For instance, the Gamecube had a lifetime attach rate of 9 games.

You know what the joke was back then? "Wow, the one person with a Gamecube bought nine games!"

"year lead? that makes no sense"

It makes no sense? Let me try to explain: When a system comes out, it has a library of about, ten games. But maybe only 1 or 2 of those games is worth playing, which is why there has never been a system with an attach rate of ten at launch.

As games come out, however, the people with the system buy more games, and that attach rate goes up. The more time that passes, the more games are released, the higher the attach rate goes. For example:

http://www.xbox360fanboy.co...

In case you don't want to check that (and you don't, because I get the impression you have no interest in any objective form of truth), I'll copy the relevant information here. "As of January of 08, the 360 has an attach rate of 7 games per console...the latest attach rate is significantly higher than the 5.3 attach rate reported last January."

See that? In 07, the attach rate was five. Between the span of a year, the attach rate grows by two.

"no matter how you slice it, your statement has no credibility on this front."

My statement has no credibility? Let's check the numbers! :)

http://gamer.blorge.com/200...

"Xbox 360: Software sales ratio: 7.5
Wii: Software sales ratio: 5.3"

Interesting, so after three years, the 360 has a game-tie rate of seven games while after two years the Wii has one of five games, which is the *exact* game attach rate the 360 had when it was two years old.

"so...basically you are telling me that the only thing that sells on the 360 are halo games?"

Uh, no, I never said that. If you go back and actually look (you won't, because then you would be forced to address my point), what I said was that the 360 and its games are not making very much money.

http://www.gamespot.com/xbo...

"For the 12 months ended June 30, the Xbox division raked in $426 million in operating profits off more than $8.1 billion in sales."

See? So while it brings in 8.1 billion dollars, that means that their production cost them 7.7 billion dollars. Revenue minus production costs gives you operating profit. This is one of the basic tenets of economics.

"anything from gta4 cod 4 to guitar hero you name it. and yeah sure let's compare handheld the new hot kid on the block against consoles"

Well, first, I specifically accounted for that in my above post, and secondly, handhelds have been around since the Sega vs. Nintendo era.

"look cheap things sell better they always will"

Uh, Wii Fit is a videogame that over a hundred dollars, and it's been near the top of the sales charts for months.

http://www.joystiq.com/2008...

"July Software

1. NCAA Football 09 - Xbox 360 – 397.6K
2. Wii Fit - Wii – 369.6K
3. Guitar Hero: On Tour - DS – 309.7K
4. Wii Play w/ remote - Wii – 284K
5. NCAA Football 09 - PS3 – 242.5K
6. Soulcalibur IV - Xbox 360 – 218.9K
7. Mario Kart w/ wheel - Wii – 174.5K
8. Rock Band Special Ed. Bundle - Wii – 165.8K
9. Soulcalibur IV - PS3 – 155.8K
10. Sid Meier's Civilization Revolution - Xbox 360 – 147.6K"

"So by what you are saying even though you don't have any links or sources to is"

I don't have any links or sources to what I'm saying? You mean, other than the half a dozen I just used?

And since you brought it up, uh, how many sources have *you* used?

"that a game like halo 3 which sold a great deal of copies isn't worth mention in the same breath as nintendo and their profits?"

It really hurts your argument when you attribute statements to me that I never made. What I said was that the 360 is making nowhere near the profits that Nintendo's seeing. I'm not saying the Wii is a better system, I'm saying that it's the more profitable one by a heavy margin.

"Tell me how much did metriod prime sell?'

Uh, about a million and a half units.

"and how much money did nintendo make on that?"

According to Wikipedia, it made 50 million dollars in revenue. I can't determine the profits without knowing how much it cost them to produce in the first place.

"you see, ms isn't making much of a profit like nintendo is but they are slowly creeping up. that's were the attach rates come in you dig?"

Uh, the Gamecube had a lifetime attach rate of 9 games. Which is higher than what the 360 currently sports.

http://www.videogamesblogge...

By your logic, the 360's an even bigger failure than the Gamecube!

"so how can you come up and tell me that they are making more profits"

Because they *are*.

http://www.gamesindustry.bi...

Nintendo made 990 million profit in three months, while according to the Gamespot link above, the 360 made 426 million in an entire year.

Gee, you tell me, which number is bigger?

"and also do you really think a company like MS at this point in time cares too much about making a profit as they do more about market share?"

I'm not arguing that -- I'm saying that your belief that the 360's profits are greater than the Wii's is an argument with no factual foundation in reality.

"dude nintendo now is starting to make its money back"

Rather than me posting a link to the Gamecube's lifetime profits, I'm going to instead ask *you* to provide *me* with a link saying that the Gamecube ended up with a net loss.

"MS have spare theirs in different ways"

What money? In its entire life time the original Xbox and all its games never made Microsoft a cent, and in fact, the whole deal represented a loss of four billion dollars.

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk...

"i mean if nintendo would have fail this generation they would have been like sega making their games for the other two platforms at least both ms and sony have other endeavor that they can both rely on"

More likely they would have gone into focusing purely on handhelds, which are incredibly lucrative.

"nintendo don't and couldn't afford and quote and repeat what im saying couldn't afford going toe to toe with both sony and ms money wise so they had to build something they could afford making."

You must have a source that you can link to that, right? Please post it.

"so i guess you are right on that front they had to go the cheap rout in other to succeed and luckily it all worked out, thanks to some good comments from the media, good pr spins and the whole intentional shortages"

Intentional shortages? You must not know very much about how economics works.

See, when dealing with a fixed price a company sells a number of units (quantity supplied) to a number of consumers who want to buy the product (quantity demanded). When Quantity sold is less than Quantity demanded, you get a shortage.

Now, let's say quantity demanded is ten while quantity supplied is five. Quantity sold ends up being five and we end up with five people who want to buy the product but can't because it's not available. Now, let's say they make a dollar of profit on each unit sold. They end up making five dollars as a result. If they had sold the full ten, they would have made ten dollars, which is more money.

Now, how exactly does it benefit a company to sell five units instead of the full ten? How exactly does it benefit a company to make *less* money? Particularly when as time passes, the people who want to buy the product get tired of waiting and then go and buy from the competition instead and quantity demanded goes down?

"and another thing the dreamcast had a one year lead and the ps2 still out grew it and build a higher attach rate than it? so what are you trying to say here?"

I'm saying that as time goes by, attach rates grow larger and that if you want to compare attach rates, you have to compare the rates at a similar point in their lifespan. Two years in, the Xbox 360 had the exact same rate that the two-year old Wii has now.

I am also saying that attach rates are meaningless.

To use your example, let's look at the Dreamcast and the PS2. at thirty months mark, the PS2 had a ratio of 6.5

In comparison, at thirty months, the Dreamcast had a rate of 6.4

Are you telling me that the tenth of a game difference is what led to the PS2 dominating the market? If you are, most statisticians would tell you you're standing on incredibly flimsy ground.

Especially since after 30 months, the original Xbox had an attach rate of 6.8. Yet it did less well than the PS2. Whoa!

"you see your little statement makes no sense to little if any. "

To you. You forgot to say "to me" . "Your statement makes no sense *to me".

If you want to call up literature on attach rates, be my guest, and then we can evaluate whose statements about who makes more sense.

I don't think you really want to do that.

"the real reason behind the 360's attach rates come in, due to xbox live, don't believe check out the numbers, of people playing on xbox everyday, anything from achivment whores to the ocasional oh you got that game than ill get it so can kick your you know what on xbox live. this is also where nintendo fail big time at least sony has something for its gamers in the form of the psn is which is slowly making its strides."

Um, A. I'm a Live user myself and B. None of that is relevant to my point.

"you ask nintendo about this and they will tell you they don't care about online, in other words another way of escaping losses lol oh man."

Because relatively speaking, no one cares about online. It's a small market in comparison to the fifty million users Nintendo projects it will have by March.

Coincidentally, Live's service is mediocre in comparison to that provided by PCs.

"and we all cant take wii connect seriously now, so please don't waste your time bringing it up either because it wont do you any good. seriously. "

Um, I wasn't going to, but thanks for the advice?

"go ahead say what you want now i know your probably sitting at home dying to."

Sitting at home? Uh, try again. Dying to? Also try again.

"ill wait for you on the open zone since i have run out of bubbles. "

And I'll wait for you after school behind the teacher's parking lot under the flag pole!

"that is if you think yo can teach me something."

Basic economic theory? Reading comprehension? Mathematics? Typing skills?

This isn't an insult, but I don't think I could teach any of those to you over an electronic web page's comments board with only three bubbles left.

Kids, remember. Stay in school.

"and just for the record, i don't hate nintendo, i think they are a very smart company and my gratitude goes to them always for being part of the foundation of this industry we so much to talk about."

Honestly? I really don't... care... if you (or, for that matter, anyone else) hate Nintendo or not. I don't care if someone hates the Wii or the DS or the games or the online service, as that's all a matter of personal opinion. If the market hates the Wii, then it'll do badly and Nintendo will use a different business model next generation. If the market loves it, then next generation will be more of the same. I'm not particularly concerned either way.

Incidentally, I don't even really care what you think about anything, but as long as I have some time to kill, I might as well.

See, things like "profits" "market systems" "demand" and "sales" are not up to opinion. They have concrete, verifiable facts, which you are ignoring. When you argue that the Wii sees less profits than the 360, there is a right or wrong answer to this question, which may be easily found through a simple internet search. The search yields numbers, which when held up together, are either equal or greater or less than one another.

Every available source says the 360's profits in twelve months were less than half of Nintendo's in three months. You are arguing that the former is greater than the latter.

No offense -- You are wrong.

"but..i tell it, like i see it."

If you see half a billion as greater than a billion, you need glasses.

And if you need glasses, then, yes, that is in fact, your problem.

[Gr81]

@Scissor-I love it, your posts are always on point. The disagrees you may receive are not because what you say isn't true, but rather fanboys who may be pist at what you"ve said but can't verbally compete, therefore you get the disagree. Not that you care (lol).

@Mahr- Bravo, now that's a post! That felt like an episode of Law & Order you took his entire argument and dismantled it to its core. I'm glad someone finally destroyed this idea of attach rates being a sign of success. (It is a success but not in the grandest of ways many fanboys would want to believe).

Both you and Scissor sure know how post a...post.(?)

[Mahr]

It's always nice to hear that someone appreciates information. :)

Incidentally, for anyone who's actually interested, here's a business perspective on game-tie rates.

http://www.edge-online.com/...

And up-to-date information on the most current rates (along with some interesting information nuggets in their own rights).

http://vgsales.wikia.com/wi...

Be advised, it is a Wiki, so it's best to view the non-linked things with a hint of skepticism, 'lest you leave yourself to the whims of the Vandals.

[rbluetank]

Sometime in life after living long enough you learn to nut-up and admit to being wrong or right on certain things no matter where you fall afterwards. people will always fall in line one way or the other.. I fall on the side that people who bought the sloppy joe next gen-not console aka (Wii) of having shiat in their hands.. This is not a one ply or two ply issue; because i am sure you do not wrap your left or right hand like a Mega Qtip before wiping.. I bought Haze and the game is pure shiat...but nothing under heaven will make me trade it in for $1,$5,$10. Why because it is a reminder me not to fall on the wrong side of the line.. i could have got a better game if i would have waited and learned more about the game before investing in it.. You and a lot of people are invested in the Wii and you want to protect your investment. i do not blame anyone for fighting for their investment. you get very upset and ready to argue and ect.. when people say the graphic on the wii are dog shiat and the gameplay is subpar.. on most if not all games on the wii. M$oft and $ony are fight for the consumers dollars. We the consumers are getting free and execellent content at times..for free and next to nothing at times. What is Sloppy joe giving us Shiat.. attachments costing more then actually games at times.. is that the 1.1 controller you are talking about? Reggie (Aka King Pin Pimp) got on stage and showed us an attachment to go along with wii resort.

Please name what new / free content we the consumer have gotten from Sloppy Joe? FYI the weather channel does not count..!! i can watch that on TV or my computer.

The sloppy joe of next-gen-not would of nut-up and played their role and challenge M$oft / $ony directly we the consumer would be winning a lot more.. and games would be a lot better for all.. The 1.1 ect.. with next-gen graphic would have still sold millions..!! But sloppy joe choose to dhooker thumb up consumer with the prospect of a great (job). You end up hearing a lot of talk and your wallet is out of $250 of cold hard cash..

i wish you the best on collecting yours $250 dollars worthy of fun and ect... please be reminded that everybody has a side not common to yours or others. I just want everybody to have fun talking trash in a fun way or giving people information they would not have other wise. the Wii is shiat. Also i will say that the 360 / sony or shiat too.. I have one side deal or no deal.. can we now be friends... lol Tc and god bless

[N4g_null]

rbluetank I'll see you in conduit and some other Motion+ game. I mean you like resistance and it seems you are good I know lots of quake 2,3 UT2004, socom, halo 1,2,3 golden eye players that are going to get the game. This is going to be sweet just because there will be no excuses and no slow game play.

The slopy joe thing is cool. We are cool. Also what is this free stuff you are talking about from MS and SONY?

[rbluetank]

i think the wii has a couple of promising games. Mad world / Conduit. I can not see the full value in buying the Wii when i have two other gaming consoles and a new computer right now. When my 360 breaks down again.. i will put all my attention into my PS3 and my computer.

The conduit reminds me of Perfect dark on the N64... I love that game. I made the mistake and bought Perfect Dark game for my 360 on opening day.. The game suck and the graphic were not that good also. i think the developer of Conduit will push the systems as far as it can go. the game is a throw back to the great games of the past. the gameplay not meaning "wii controller" reminds me of the first time i started playing video games. i wish all Wii fans the best on that game.

Mad world is looking to be a great game also!! I just hope this game has story behind hacking,ripping and kill. The character models look very detailed and amazing. i hope Sony/M$oft can get these games to cross over so i can play them... lol

What M$oft/Sony are doing for consumers question.

M$oft is cutting the price on the 360. Consumers win!

M$oft is adding free content to the 360. Consumers win!

M$oft is trying to one up Sony on all fronts. more free content and free online service fees is to come soon.. i hope this comes after Sony hit it stride in late 2008-2009. consumers win!

Sony is also cutting prices. Consumers win

Sony has free online service and Home is free also. Consumers win!

Sony has a couple of games that is free for consumers; one is Free Realm and it is marketed for the casual gamer and kids. I forgot the name of the other game right now. Consumers win!

Sony has LBP coming out later this year and the levels you create on that game that are voted good. People will actually pay you to play your created levels on their Ps3. You will actually make money for free..by putting in a little of your time to create a level for LBP. Sony has a install base of 15-17 million owners. If 1k people buy your level or even less; you make cold hard cash. Consumers win big time..

Both Sony and 360 are making your gaming console into a "universal machine"

Please advise me on anything Sloppy joe is doing for consumer outside of the Weather Channel and not needed new attachments. Please explain to me how consumers are winning.. Where is the free content or any type of expansion of the sloppy Joe consoles to greater heights since when it came out. Sony and M$oft has ten folds there debut content since release. what has the sloppy Joe of next gen-not done???

The (Wii) since most people call it that was a low budget gamble that made millions on returns. I believe the Wii jfnucked themselves out of "bed" this current Next Gen Gaming Generation. Let say they reinvented the Wii with everything M$oft and Sony has or more this current life. They would be behind by 40 to 50 millions to both M$oft/Sony combined this cycle. The developer outside of the Wii would probably show disdain as they did for the Sony for the last two years after the 360 was launched. The delevoper do not want to learn a brand new development Sku this current gen cycle. The games for the new Wii probably will not be that good at first; while the 360/sony are hitting their stride in the gaming community with great games. This is why the Wii is not on my mind this life cycle of gaming. when Wii 2 come out and it has a lot more then what it has now; i will buy one. i would love to play those games. i will wait until the next cycle of game consoles. i might buy the Wii for $100 to $150 at gamespot bargain bends 5 to 8 years from now.

I hope the Wii knuckle up to the plate next time around.

[N4g_null]

SONY is cutting prices where? I have a disk base digital camera from those guys that still goes for $600 yet I paid $800 for it LOL. SONY only tech does not go down in price. You can go to best buy right now and my tube tv in the garage is a sony trinitron and it's still goes for the same price LOL if you can find one LOL that TV is like 5 years old! The PS2 is still over a hundred dollars last time I checked. You can forget about a price cut! SONY knows we are tech addicts LOL! Even when MP3s won they still had those high priced MiniDisk players hell I almost got one because it looked cool!

"Both Sony and 360 are making your gaming console into a "universal machine" " You sure about that? The last universal machine was a PC and it's an open platform. I have to ask how many PCs do you need? Their is nothing universal about not being able to upgrade an HD system. CONSOLES are closed systems so their is nothing universal about them. SONY and MS are treating as if they really where dongles to stop piracy. Had SONY made a console they would be enjoying sales closer to the Wii. Yet they needed to make their console universal by putting blu ray in it? Making you pay for harddrive space when I can buy 500 gigs around $100s?

If MS and SONY where game companies then they wouldn't need gimmicks like hard drive space and all of this other crap that we didn't need in our last gen systems. What is wrong with making a console I mean they said this was for gamers right? Well make some thing for gamers then and put blu ray in their for free if we need it so bad.

MS and SONY are doing every thing other than fixing that damn controller or bring out some console games are better yet some arcade games and even better whats up with action adventure games that are not FPS?

Hey sloppy joe is letting you make games for a start up cost some where around $10,000 and Wiiware gives you a nice cut of the profits no pub deals to deal with either. I hope every thing works out with LBP and making money off levels but you'll have to pay to play those levels. So who is going to pay then rate those levels? Which is where I bring up XNA and having to have an account to even beta those games and that's on top of your xbox live price. I've said before LBP is no different than this set up yet maybe slightly cheaper.

Seriously if you like making levels learn some stuff about BSP editors and what not. LBP is a joke compared to what you could be making for free since your employer will be paying you.

The Wii kept development cost down that the best thing they could have done for gaming. I love showing people my 3d HD art but I'd hate to pay for it ouch!

I see where you are coming from yet even you admit some games have caught your eye. LOL I just bought two PC and I'm going to build 4 more soon and one with a quadro plex since we want to try out the cuda stuff more and galeto render(sp?). Man it would be so sweet if the HD console has options for external vid cards.

So as you can see I already have plenty of PC horse power at work and at home so I needed a game machine. Oh yeah if you have not bought a system yet then wait a little. New chips are in bound and the current stuff is going to go for peanuts.

And when you get your PC go get the quake wars game and then get the SDK ok, and while your at it get UT3 and learn how to edit it since it's pretty much on every ones middle ware shelf.

hey it was nice talking to you and I'm sorry you still feel it is a sloppy joe but you seem to be in a tech fetish mode so the Wii just isn't sexy enough to you spec wise. Hey I understand that but after 1 years gaming on a good PC box and making some game are on your own you'll see the light LOL. If you get paid to do this stuff you will see it even faster. More people need to develop for the Wii so that they understand how to create better for a console rather than for a PC.

Seriously some of my first models where xmen guys and they are fully animated, hell i didn't even put those in my portfolio, the potential of HD graphics is unbound on the PC side and yet it could have been even better if we had more ram and better GPUs but none of that fixes game play not even the UT engine.

I'm really missing skill based game play on the HD systems. Some upgrades need to happen for me to take those guys serious.

I have to ask you have you ever tried to play sin and punishment or some of the old 16-32bit 2d games? Or even some of the arcade games here.
http://hg101.classicgaming....

If you don't know about or do even like half of those games on that list then your basically a PC gamer that wants a console like PC. Which is worst than any sloppy joe.

We don't really need a universal console we just need some thing to play games like the ones on the link above even if it is a virtual console. Before you say you can emulate most of those games just know you can't most of them are not true emulations and then again you can't even find roms for most of them. Yet if you can play these games you need to do that just so you can understand why I have a PC and a real console rather than buying a console trying to be a PC.

I wish I could say their was a game I wanted on the HD consoles but their isn't and if their was I got it on PC. No I'm not a metal gear fan or a FF fan but I'm curious to see the crystal engine in action from a development stand point to see how far they have or we have to catch up.

Next gen is going to be fun though. Intel has a new chip that sounds a lot like powerVR and with all this core duo money they could make a sweet deal for some one. That is our new cell chip and it could be cheap enough to be in a $250 system/console. Some people worry about BW compatibility but Intel designs mother boards also. I'm with you I think we both will get more of what we want next gen rather than this gen.