Did Sony Lie about SSD? PS3 could run PS5 Ratchet & Clank Gameplay

Jon Burton "In this episode of Coding Secrets I look at how the Rift Gameplay in Ratchet & Clank can be achieved on much older hardware with no SSD. Don't agree?"

[Jin_Sakai]

But at what level? Even if it’s possible it wouldn’t be anywhere near the extent of the PS5 levels.

[Babadook7]

Exactly.

'Store both alternate dimensions in RAM at 100th the quality? See it works! '

No. It doesn't. You need a fast SSD for this fidelity. PS3 (and PS4) LODs would be trash.

[bouzebbal]

There is a lot of PR into that and ps5 is optimized to take advantage of SSD… but ps3 is also a very special piece of tech that still remains a mystery today..

[abstractel]

The question should really be "Can you run Ratchet and Clank PS4 (2016) but also add in switching between levels within a second?". The answer is no, so there's no lie. On top of all that, Insomniac also made a game that looks better than every other console game out there, even including performance demanding tech like raytracing.

I imagine this clever guy knows this but figured it'd be an awesome clickbait video.

[Eonjay]

There are two separate uses in this game being discussed.

The first are the pocket dimensions. They are standard viewport hacks as described by Insomniac in its interview with Digital Foundry. This technique is quite common and Insomniac in no way asserted that it was because of the SSD. They were very clear.

The second are full dimension teleporting. These are not possible on the PS3 or PS4. These are instances where an entire level is loaded into memory from SSD in what is practically an instant. These are not persistent in memory. They are actually loaded on the fly, quite literally. There is no way the older consoles could stream this amount of data so quickly. The PS4 drive could achieve like 100 MB/s. With Compression on PS5 this reaches 9GB/s This is a gigantic jump gen on gen. Imagine if there was a similar 50x jump to the GPU? Thats the kind of advantage PS5 SSD has over PS4 HDD.

[Outside_ofthe_Box]

Isn't saying that the PS3 could run Rachet as is, more disingenuous then saying the SSD makes it only possible on PS5?

FYI companies say this all time. "Such and such is only possible on ________ console" When in reality you could always scale stuff back to make it possible. Last of Us II for example could run on PS3 if you scale back quality, but I don't think anyone would take issue with Sony saying it's only possible on PS4 hardware, besides Jon Burton maybe.

[Lexreborn2]

If you are scaling back to run on something and cutting content/level design to make it work. It’s not possible.
The last of us 1 remastered on PS4 is not possible on ps3. PS3 could only output 720p 30. PS4 could do 1080p 60 and pro did 4K none of which is possible on PS3.

Since PS3 and ps4 days devs have been saying the limits of the devices stop them from innovative ideas. Rocksteady wanted the bat mobile in Arkham city. It wasn’t possible on 360 and PS3.

But it was fully realized on PS4 and Xbone. Rift apart would have to be butchered to make it work on PS3 that’s not the same game if you have to butcher it.

[Outside_ofthe_Box]

"Rift apart would have to be butchered to make it work on PS3 that’s not the same game if you have to butcher it."

Which is my point. It's ironic that this guy Burton is accusing Sony of "lying" while saying that Rift Apart can run on PS3 which in itself is a "lie."

"If you are scaling back to run on something and cutting content/level design to make it work. It’s not possible."

I agree with that and should have made it more clear. I'm saying that if you're gonna say that game can run on old hardware if you cut back "such and such" or do something differently to achieve similar yet inferior effect then you can say that about any game. Was using Last of Us as an example in saying Burton (or any one of us) wouldn't dare say that Last of Us II is possible on PS3, yet he said it here for Rift Apart which is silly.

[Kosic]

It's the same with the Nintendo switch to get games to run on that you get a lower resolution/graphic setting version of the game.

And tbh it is the same game. Not the same experience. Its once you cut content out that's where the game is not the same.

The game is the puzzles, the controls, the levels. A game isn't the graphic level.
We grew up not caring about graphics because you could experience a game with low quality graphics and be amazing.
Where as you could have a rubbish/bare bones game that looks great.

[JackBNimble]

One thing I do know is R&C could run on current gen consoles . This magic ssd was either a flat out lie or extremely exaggerated and misleading.

[badz149]

Is this guy Phil Spencer? Talk is cheap!

[Tapani]

This whole video is completely BS. The amount of data in the pipeline is multiple times larger than what it was in PS3 era, it is tenfold or hundred fold, depending on the game.

[masterfox]

Lol I highly doubt that.

[neutralgamer1992]

But is that really a dog at next generation consoles or ssd? Because PS3 was quite powerful for it's time. Jak and Dexter didn't have load screens and that was on PS2. I am ready for days of no load screens. When I played HZD fast travel took over a minute to load and that's one of my favorites games of all time

[Christopher]

To say "the exact same thing" is massively disingenuous here.

Miles Morales is on PS4, but those instant reloads and whatnot are not on there at all. Both are loading environments, but why can't they load that environment as quickly and seamlessly as you can on PS5? Obviously there *something* there that makes it possible.

R&Ccan absolutely run on PS4/PS3, but those on rail scenes to control loading would be much longer as would those scenes where it's not on rails would suddenly have loading screens or loading animations/scenes.

[Sciurus_vulgaris]

There is a level in Titanfall 2 named Effect and Cause. The previously mentioned level allows players to nearly instantly switch between two different variants of the same map due to rapid time travel. When switching time periods, enemies and the overall environment change. Titanfall 2 was released last gen for the XB1 and PS4.

I’m not a game developer. I don’t think it is not unreasonable to state that Rift Apart maybe technically possible on the PS4 with increased loading and decreased visuals. However, the smooth,rapid, essentially loading free transitions between world and dimensions of an integral feature of Rift Apart.

[LordoftheCritics]

That was a very cool lvl in Titanfall 2. The entire campaign was slick.

[Sciurus_vulgaris]

Titanfall 2 reminded me of Half-Life 2, every level was unique.

[VersusDMC]

I haven't played Ratchet yet so do you Rift into totally different environments?
I've seen videos where the scenery changes from city to jungle in seconds.

Because in Titanfall 2(that I've beaten) the level that is brought up all the time is just a cosmetic change to the same environment. Facility in the present ruined but still just the same environment and the Past where the same environment is cleaner. They do the same in dead space with hallucinations when the same room will all of a sudden have a bunch of extra assets appear out of nowhere but it is just the same room.

I don't think we can call it the same thing.

PS. Titanfall 2 Campain is totally underrated and super cheap. Pick it up.

[KeyAppearance]

Yep, exactly this! As excellent as that level and the whole campaign was, it was much less resource-intensive than loading in brand new environments

[Bathyj]

You can not only step through a portal into a totally new environment and back again, you can stand there and see that environment before you step into it and even walk around the portal behind it while remaining in the original environment and see there nothing on the back of the portal, meaning that yes it is not some cheap trick where it's essentially the same environment already loaded with a different aesthetic. It really is loading in a completely new level in an instant.

[Teflon02]

Yeah in Ratchet, there's a world that you hit a crystal and it instantly changed the world. While it's the same world. It's layout is completely changed and it's loading an entirely different stage. There's a big difference between it and little tricks like changing textures and loading 2 areas at once in lower poly counts and shifting a character between them. There's big limitations to tricks vs legit doing it

[Fluke_Skywalker]

@JustTheFax That's not true at all, there are pocket dimensions in every level where you walk through portals into completely different worlds that ar just instantly there. Also as @Teflon says there are levels where you smack a crystal and the whole world changes in a flash instantly.

[KillBill]

If you read on what devs commented on Ratchet & Clank they commented on many of the assets already being present as well use of simple skydomes. Watch the video and you will understand that the so called "completely different environment" really aren't what you imagine them to be.

[yeahokwhatever]

other games have done the dual times in 1 area. what makes that different is that you're juggling some of the assets, not entirely different open world maps.

[darthv72]

It could have certainly been on the PS4 (with rifts) but im not so sure about the PS3. Graphically sure, given how good Crack in time is but the fast loading of the rifts could have posed a problem.

[I_am_Batman]

In principle it would've been easier to do something similar on PS3 than PS4 (at much lower asset quality/density of course). The reason is that the ratio between mass storage bandwidth and memory was more favourable on the PS3, especially when a large portion of the game's data was installed on the HDD. The PS4 had a really bad ratio which lead to a lot of memory being wasted because assets would have to be preloaded very early. To make this work devs had to implement effective ways to predict what data will be needed.

The PS5 pretty much flipped that ratio on it's head. It takes a while for game engines to catch up to the paradim shift. As we move away from the cross-gen window I expect to see the asset streaming bandwidth being utilized more freely without relying on scripted set pieces so much.

[Kavorklestein]

No paradigm shifted. It's just loading stuff as you approach the object it knows you will inevitably SMACK because obviously you will. It's a feature made more possible with fast SSD speeds but it's not revolutionary.
It is, however, neat.

[I_am_Batman]

@Kavorklestein: The shifting paradign is the development environment. Ratchet & Clank is built with an early and evolving toolkit which has it's roots in the last generation. Going from 2 minutes to fill the entire memory on PS4 to just over 2 seconds on PS5 requires a complete makeover of the asset streaming pipeline. It'll take time until devs can fully unlock and utilize the PS5's potential. As cool as Ratchet & Clank is (and it is pretty cool), we haven't seen nothing yet.

[ecchiless]

that guy have to delete and reupload his video.... check the first comment on the video to know why. The guy seems to have a beef with imsoniac... maybe cause they dont hire him xD

[Christopher]

If people don't know what this is talking about, he deleted a whole portion of the video that goes against his whole argument. That being about the crystal whacking to change environments which weren't explained by any of his other items. It was instantaneous and loaded whole new environments. But he removed it to make his argument stronger for the parts he wanted and ignored the parts where it didn't fit.

Very disingenuous presentation of arguments when I found out about this. Very Anita Sarkeesian of him.

[ecchiless]

yea the guy is pathetic, a salty dev for sure, variant from youtube got him in the lie.
An example from Youtube comment section:
VariantAEC

What is being done cannot be done without those smart optimizations he mentioned which is very different from what is being done here. What he thinks is level streaming just isn't and he does (right before ending the video admit that) so he actually is the one who is lying here.
This game would not run as well without ultrafast I/O.

[VariantAEC]

@ecchiless
Thanks, it's nice to know some people read my comments and understand them.

What annoyed me most about his video is that he does know what he's talking about but chooses to deliberately claim that the ultrafast switching to two stages would be possible as is on much slower hardware regardless.
Jak III's opening cinematic shows us that couldn't happen; it would take too long.

[Hellcat2020]

Just imagine the amount of screen tearing the game would have on ps3
Lol

[darthv72]

I didnt notice much on the PS3 versions. Not saying there wasnt any, but that i didnt really take notice as I was too busy having fun.

[Nitrowolf2]

What does this even mean….

[ecchiless]

smh

[Darkborn]

Lol at like 720p and 20 fps probably and lower textures and lower everything. Sounds like a ps3 game.

[septemberindecember]

I think this is one of those things that is about efficiency over possibility, and is something we've been hearing about leading up to this generation. The Rift Mechanic could have been done via bank switching from the RAM. However, the fast speeds of the SSD allow it to act as if it is a form of RAM leading to the developers having a greater amount of RAM to work with (as they don't have to pack as many assets into it) and leads to simplicity in development.

[Germaximus]

I like the comment by Sciurus_vulgaris. It's well said. But I also like the video. I am sick and tired of everybody overhyping their crap. Everybody does it. It's a lie. It makes me sick. And I never understand why everybody just falls for the lies and accepts them.

This doesn't mean whatever the developers did to make this possible wasn't great work. I hate being mislead as well. It's bullcrap and completely unnecessary if your product is any good.

[Silly gameAr]

Can you tell us what they lied about, or go into detail what is meant here? People are using TF2 as an example, but apparently, that's not the same thing as what was done in R&C. I don't know the insides and out of game development, but you seem to know some based on how angry you seem to be.

Can you break it down in laymans terms for us that just play the games, and not develop them?

Anyway, can't wait to see what Jon Burton can do. He seems to really know his stuff. Waaayyyy more than the guys at Insomniac, with all of the games under their belts that look incredible. Man, I can't wait to see Jon Burton's new game.

[Germaximus]

the video answers all your questions

[Silly gameAr]

But, can't you answer? The guy in the video uses soooo many big words and terms that my little gamer brain can't comprehend. If only he gave an example instead of just talking about stuff that I doubt anyone would understand.

I sure hope he can back up his words in the vid, and build a world inside of a world, and make it load in real time just like in R&C. Darn, I wish Mr. Jon Burton would make a game on PS3, and show Insomniac how it's done, but conveniently, we're 2 gens away from the PS3, so Mr. Burton can't show us his awesome skills. He can only talk about a company that's already proven what they can do, while he just talks gibberish.

Please save us, Jon Burton!!!

[darthv72]

"I sure hope he can back up his words in the vid, and build a world inside of a world, and make it load in real time"... he did that. In the lego star wars game he talks about in the vid. Weren't you paying attention or did you just not watch the vid?

[mikey15]

JustTheFax8h ago
Do you even know who Jon Burton is? He made lots of games on PS3.

Yeah he seems very creative with a diverse portfolio of true next gen graphics

https://en.wikipedia.org/wi...

***
2006 Super Monkey Ball Adventure Concept consultant
2007 Transformers: The Game Concept consultant
2008 Lego Indiana Jones: The Original Adventures Director
2008 Lego Batman: The Videogame Director
2010 Lego Harry Potter: Years 1-4 Lead designer
2011 Lego Star Wars III: The Clone Wars Creative director
2011 Lego Pirates of the Caribbean: The Video Game Director
2011 Lego Harry Potter: Years 5-7 Lead designer
2012 Lego Batman 2: DC Super Heroes Creative director
2012 Lego The Lord of the Rings Creative director
2013 Lego City Undercover Special thanks
2013 Lego Marvel Superheroes Lead designer
2014 The Lego Movie Videogame Director
2014 Lego The Hobbit Director, designer
2014 Lego Batman 3: Beyond Gotham Writer
2015 Lego Jurassic World Director
2015 Lego Dimensions Creative director, designer, writer
2016 Lego Marvel's Avengers Director
2016 Lego Star Wars: The Force Awakens Concept consultant
2017 Lego Worlds Concept consultant
2017 Sonic 3D: Director's Cut Programmer***

lolol FFS son

***2001 Crash Bandicoot: The Wrath of Cortex Creative director, lead designer, writer
2004 Crash Twinsanity Lead designer, programmer***

He has no knowledge of PS hardware since the PS 2 days.

[13sentinel]

"I am sick and tired of everybody overhyping their crap. Everybody does it. It's a lie. It makes me sick. And I never understand why everybody just falls for the lies and accepts them."

I don't know, maybe Mike Fitzgerald (core technology dev at insomniac) touched you in an inappropriate place? I promise you, this is not even a slight issue. Jesus christ.

[isarai]

With a lot of compromises sure, but that fact that it would need a compromise, and this is still a launch window game and barely scratches the surface of what these consoles will do is awesome.

I think maybe it can do the rift crystals thing, POSSIBLY if it stalled the transition a bit, but i highly doubt it could do the bossfights and setpieces that instantly transport you to entirely different planets, that an entirely new set of assets.

[darthv72]

As good as the PS3 R&C games turned out... sure it could be done. And it was long rumored that RA started out on the PS4 but then rift jumped to the PS5 at the request of Sony. Keep in mind how well they did the reboot of R&C on the PS4 and you can understand the evolution of the game we got in RA. the rift points are not random, they are scripted / linear. So anything is possible if they wanted to make it happen.

[Teflon02]

Never heard this rumor but seeing insomniac has stated it was made for the ps5 with the ps5 in mind when they designed it. I call cap

[ecchiless]

can you show us the ps4 version? can the lego dev show us who is done with a ps3 dev kit? or he is gonna not do it?

[CrimsonWing69]

Didn’t Titan Fall 2 do it?

Edit: I need to scroll down before I post a comment

[FallenAngel1984]

Claims and real world application are two different things

Sony claimed PS3 could do 4D graphics after all…whatever that meant

[yeahokwhatever]

if you dont know what it means how do you know they didnt do it?

[Knightofelemia]

It would be a dummied down version of the game probably also missing a bunch of stuff and probably wouldn't look as good or run as smooth. Unless a team took their time and actually reprogrammed the game for the PS3 you're comparing a PS5 to a PS3.

[Rimeskeem]

I am sure it could have if it was native 720p and 8 bit. Straw man of straw mans.

[Father__Merrin]

The titanfall 2 level is nothing like what ratchet is doing. Titanfall 2 it changes scenery to look like it's going in past the level that it snaps to is simple looking. You have no guns and it's scripted.

And going back further anyone remember legacy of kain soul reaver you could change the rift but it's nothing like ratchet. You hear these articles Oh it can be done on previous hardware but nothing can be found

[VariantAEC]

Those stages were also broken into several chunks... with long loading screens between each section of the level.

[13sentinel]

O, is it now buddy? O is that so, hey?

Admit it, this is a pathetically desperate attempt to throw shade. Get over yourself. Start worrying about more important things in life than trying to prove to everyone that Insomniac were liars (You are attacking Insomniac employees here). I don't know why dumb controversial BS seems to follow Insomniac's games? First puddlegate, now this. It doesn't stop.
The tales of franchise director sould be ashamed of himself. Go outside and lick some grass, get back to reality, I promise it's not that bad.

[Sharky231]

Prove it! I loved the PS3 but speed wasn’t its strong suit.

[dbcoops]

That's just it he can't prove it, that's why this is completely baseless and should be failed as an article.

[Traecy]

I highly doubt it. The game looks & performs beautifully on the PS5,I doubt the PS3 could have done the same.

[SierraGuy]

It couldn't all these schills are in damage control over the L3 custom cache facts that have surfaced and how much more discreet and better designed the PS5 hardware is in actuality and how a variable boost clock is actually better for gaming at 120 fps with less dips in performance.

[13sentinel]

I love it🙏

[ocelot07]

Just look at the original demon's souls and the remake. Sure it can be done but look at the loading times and FPS between the two.

Imagine the new ratchet and clank on PS3. 1 minute loading times every 10 seconds 😂

[MrSec84]

The difference between trying to do this on PS3 and PS5 is complexity of per frame data, on PS5 you're not seeing transitions in LOD, you're also getting a level of detail far beyond on PS4, let alone PS3.

SATA ATA allows for something like 150MB/s, PS5 5500MB/s and that isn't taking into consideration the OS streaming in the background, which requires far less of the PS5's SSD to Memory bandwidth pathway.
PS3 would be streaming in less than 5MBs per frame if your having to draw only 30 frames a second, PS5 can shift around 90MBs per each of a game's 60 Frames or 180MBs per each of a games 30 frames each second.
This video creator isn't mentioning how detailed objects would be, on PS3 sure you can have bland, low geometry objects, with no animations or very few changes from one frame to the next, but PS5 can take that and turn the whole thing on it's head.

Sure Ratchet & Clank isn't going to be pushing the new tech to it's limits, it's an early generation game, built around an early pre-launch SDK for the most part in it's approach to how Insomniac will be able to use the technology, but it's still allowing for no shortcuts to be taken compared to what would be needed on far less demanding assets and streaming techniques on PS3 or PS4.
Sure PS4 could basically allow for no loading in wide linear games like God of War 2018, but no game really ever did what Ratchet & Clank Rift Apart has done in streaming assets without the pop-in and the per scene levels of complexity, I mean it also looks like a Pixar Movie while actually moving Ratchet and Co between dimension shifting areas of Rift Apart.

TBH though it isn't just a matter of these dimension shifting areas being what the new SSD streaming capabilities allow, it's per frame data loading, developers will tap into storing, reading and writing physics code to make way more complex games, with all kinds of unimaginable possibilities as new iterations of game engines and game development techniques are used.
Saying that a shift to dozens of times the per frame data loading isn't making a difference is pretty stupid IMO.

[SpineSaw]

"PS3 could run PS5 Ratchet & Clank Gameplay"

Ummm I put my Ratchet &Clank Rift Apart disk into my PS3 and I'm calling Joe Burton a straight up lair as the PS3 didn't run the disk at all. How does this kinda misinformation get on this site?

[leejohnson222]

Gta 5 is possible on ps1 rockstar are liars, so easy to see the attempt to push negative news towards Sony, while xb give themselves bad press by destroying their flagship franchise

[chiefJohn117]

Lol gta5 is not possible on ps1.

[VariantAEC]

But Driver was...
I get the OP was joking and we both know GTA5 wouldn't work on PS1, but I mean mean technically GTA 1 could've been more like Driver and as per usual if you cut out enough things I'm sure R* could get GTA5 on PS1 maybe even a GameBoy or a pocket calculator.

[chiefJohn117]

I TOLD YOU

[13sentinel]

Confirmation bias much? It's so easy to see straight through you.

[chiefJohn117]

I tried to tell people they were overhyping this. It's mostly smoke and mirrors, along with preloading. I would go deep into stuff but I know specific groups of people are sensitive and feel attacked when talking about certain games. But damn I right and just won a bet against articus_finch from a few months ago about Halo releasing before Horizon now im right about this. I'm on a roll.

[dbcoops]

This guys unproven and unsubstantiated claims have done nothing to bring validity to your own, you only agree with him because you share a like minded opinion nothing more. It's a pretty hollow victory. Also please refrain from double posting.

[ecchiless]

he trust a AA dev that cant back up his words and need to delete his first video cause he contradicts him self in that first one, instead of the AAA devs that made the game..... clasic xbot, clasic.

[LoveSpuds]

Your parents must be so proud chief 🙄

[VincentVanBro]

This is a classic example of a dude who stubbornly doesn't get it 🤣 if it was possible on ps3 then prove it, don't just sit there and yap.

[gold_drake]

im sure it could have been achieved, but i dont see the point on discussing that now.

ps3 is what, 14 years old at this point?
im not a tech guy, but i doubt any of the previous consoles would have been able to deliver this kind of game experience.

this just feels like a shitpost more than anything. the point was to sell the ps5 with an excellent end product to showcase what the console can do and achieve with the ssd in mind.

[tagzskie]

Any game can run with pacman level in potato specs. Its basic specially to pc gamers and i also believed that can be applied to others cellphone, consoles etc..

[MasterChief3624]

The SSD stuff was an advertising gimmick for the game, I thought most people were able to see through the marketing on that one. It felt like a last-ditch effort to make the PS5 seem necessary, like it's the only place you can play this game. Godfall did a similar thing, and now that's coming to PS4... so... Yeah. Marketing is fun like that.

[Knightofelemia]

PS3 and PS5 are in two different ball fields that's like comparing PS1 to PS4 or Sega Dreamcast to a Saturn. To get it to work on PS3 you would have to cut a bunch of stuff maybe levels, looks, some game play features.

[Good-Smurf]

There was a game that have similarly ambitious vision early on but its final product was gimped so much due to financial reasons and also hardware limitations and that game was Bioshock Infinite.
I'm sure they can kind of make it work on PS3 had they have another year or two to put more effort on last last gen version but at what cost definitely not something that the team and Sony want to put their work on just because they can and when they do it won't be anywhere near as fast or visually as good.
2K surely wasn't going to give Irrational games few extra years develop Bioshock Infinite for then next gen consoles like PS4 just so the game can be closer to their vision.
He think its possible but the effort time and extra budget to pull it off wasn't worth it.

[chicken_in_the_corn]

Of course the community think they know better than the developer

[VariantAEC]

Jon Burton is a videogame developer not just a regular arm-chair developer.
That said he does miss the point completely!

[dbcoops]

This is the biggest load of horse crap I've seen lately and I say lately because the Sony smear campaign has been going full steam as of late. Like seriously what is the point of this? This guy uses words like "probably" and then explains things by saying "I'm not going to take the time to explain it". Until you show this game running on PS3 with everything intact including instant loading, high resolution, high frame rate and RT you're doing nothing more than whizzing into the wind with your unsubstantiated and nonsensical opinions. This needs to be failed and binned like the garbage it is.

[Good-Smurf]

Yep if the guy used to make games on PS3 then go fucking do it proof it don't try to downplay Insomniac's achievement it seems as if he just an envious type.

[chiefJohn117]

Nah that's just Chris doing that. He has this thing for PS and marks everything inappropriate that's doesn't paint a positive image about Sony/PS

[porkChop]

No, they didn't lie. Technically any game or idea can be done on any hardware. However, it would require some serious cuts to complexity, graphical fidelity, and even level design. Rift Apart, in its current form, could never be done on a PS3. You could scale back the graphics and level design enough to make it possible, but then it would be a very different game.

[EvertonFC]

The things I read astounds me these days.

[SierraGuy]

Lmao... dying 😂

[KillBill]

Conversation here in comments appears to be more on scaling back and it would look terrible etc. That conversation is missing the point of discussion. Marketing talk was used in the 'can only be done on PS5 with their SSD'. It is true only in that the way they did it could only be done on PS5 with SSD. It could be done with other methods and of course with the scope of leveling graphics and frame rate to the console. This was pointed out by many people along the way but always dismissed due the statements made by developers at the time.

FYI... none of that limiting factor of old generation limiting the graphics or frames would be present in Series X system. Ratchet & Clank could easily be pulled off on Series X via different methods. Don't let marketing talk convince you that the PS5 SSD is something more than it is. (now let the haters hate with their button pressing)

[derek]

@killbill, you xbox freaks are so obsessed with everything ps5 it's kinda nuts. Show me one quote from insomniac where they say that ratchet and clank ra can not be done on the series consoles? It doesn't exist. They said the ssd and i/o on the ps5 has allowed them to do things they couldn't do before, and they're 100% correct.

[KillBill]

Did you not watch the video? Included in the video is Insomniac Creative director talking directly on that point saying it could "never be done previous generations" and that aspects of the game "would not have been possible without the SSD of the PS5". Basically entire point is talked on at 3:00 minute mark of the video. Saying that it is only possible on the PS5 with its SSD is exactly saying that it can't be done on any other console... which includes Series X.

[derek]

@KillBill did you watch the technical director at insomniac games talk with digital foundry? Is not like Insomniac hasn't given presentations centering around Spiderman ps4 and the difficulty they had streaming in assets. I mean if you want to know why they're so excited about the tech in the ps5 watch that digital foundry interview and you'll understand fully. No you could not do exactly what was done in RC rp (notice I said exactly) without the streaming tech inside the ps5. Maybe this dope in the referenced video knows how he could work around the limitations of last gens tech, but it wouldn't be the same thing and it's highly doubtful it would be nearly as effective. The guy was being an ass with his "I could do that on the ps3" nonsense. So much weird negativity from the xbox community around the ps5s ssd, so desperate to prove its not that important. As if Microsoft hasn't babbled on endlessly about their "full rdna 2" nonsense. Guy could've simply made an informative video without accusing fellow creatives in the same field of being dishonest.

[VariantAEC]

Jak and Daxter does what Jon is inferring.
Those PS2 games used only realtime cinematics & they often took you to disparate areas in a blink due to careful scripting.
Naughty Dog took their level streaming abilities to new heights with Jak III's opening cinematic which took you from The Wastelands to New Haven City then back to the Wasteland back to New Haven above the city as the palace falls then back to the wasteland before wrapping up to the title screen all playing out as real interactive game renders not any simple video file!

That said what Jak III did doesn't come remotely close to what R&C:RA is doing not even close and the reason is simple. Jak III used careful timing to make sure the new stage could be loaded before it was seen and unlike in many other games (including The Last of Us: Part II or Marvel's Spider-Man on PS4) which used impostor sets or "Frankensets" to give the illusion of the viewport being moved to a totally unique stage instantly despite these sets being resident in memory. Think Half-Life 2's opening sequence which instantly takes you to the original machine thingy that opens the wormhole to the Combine world. (Can you tell I didn't play HL1?)
The camera is moved to a Frankenset which phyisically exists in the City 17 stage. Even now games rely on fake sets to make cinematics work. But not Jak III because they allowed enough time to load those unique areas...

Now the problem is that as Mark Cerny mentioned when he referenced Jak II's Haven City is that it takes time to load those levels which is true and it is indeed why those twists and turns existed. He also said we don't need those anymore on PS5 and Insomniac proved that with Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart.

[patterson]

I’d like to see this guy recreate any of this on a PS3. Show, don’t tell.

[GoodGuy09]

I mean, I just want ssds to be the standard. Hdds are horribly too slow for gaming.

[John_McClane]

Seems like clickbait to get folks triggered to me.

[BrettAwesome]

Herpy derpsday, attention whore

[Rhythmattic]

Maybe they should of said "Only the game can play like this on a PS5"
That way, all those 3090 owners would agree.....

[Souminqtor88]

It would have to add loading times elsewhere in the game. Ps3 could barely run ps3 games with 256mb of ram

[MocBistro]

Storage is never a dealbreaker when it comes to possibility of running a software. You either get it to run in 2 seconds or 20 minutes. It'll run.

[Kaze88]

PS3 could run run the same gameplay....with way less memory, objects/characters, detail, graphics, lower resolution etc. As is, the title is a lie >_>

[yeahokwhatever]

no.

[darkrider]

The amount of spin that some try to do againts sony is just crazy. Anyone that played this game already knows the answer. Its amazing the speed we can move in and out. Even going from one point to another in the middle of the fight is crazy. Insonmianc right now is the number one Studio for next gen gaming. You dont have another that gives 120 frames, RT, ML on launch games...

[TheCaptainKuchiki]

It's a shame they never properly finished the PS3.
The console was supposed to have a dedicated GPU that Nvidia started working on but they lacked time and some disagreements led to cancellation. Microsoft launching a year ahead meant they had to rush. Instead they used Cell to act as both a CPU and a GPU, probably why it was hard to develop for. Also the PS3 only uses 6 out of the 8 cores for computation. a seventh is use for the system and the eight is disabled.
Basically this console should have been several times more powerful than the 360 and ahead of most PC at the time.
But then it would have cost $899.

[Wintersun616]

What a load of crap. No it's not possible without reducing the graphical or gameplay fidelity. It's that simple.

[jambola]

I don't know $hit
but I'm hardly going to trust the LEgo Games guy as a trustworthy source when it comes to what it/isn't possible in high quality games

[Hawk198666]

Didn't Wolfenstein and Singularity do similar things on PS3?

[kryteris]

easier to develop for, there is always some trick with it's limits.

[ScootaKuH]

It might be able to run it, but what compromises would need to be made in order to run it to any satisfactory degree?

[Einhander1971]

I have no dispute that this game couldn't run on ps3 or ps4. But come on sacrifices would have to be made. The power of ps5 truly shows in this title. And I will give an example check out Parodius on Nes then the arcade version. Yes the Nes does a fine job but compared to arcade no contest. Same applies to Ratchet ps3 vs ps5 there would be no contest.

[babadivad]

This was a very interesting technical breakdown.

[anast]

Nice. Now I can whip up RDR2 on my PS1...

[Rhythmattic]

Now the conundrum,... Play it off an external PS5 drive....
(I know.. I know... But there still a limit , OS, firmware or not.... After all, the S plays the X games... exactly the same.,)

[KINGS47]

I love playstation with all my heart but i ain't gonna lie... when i got the last of us part ll update.... that loading screen didn't change lol

[1nsomniac]

…Wait till people find out Insomniacs Ray-tracing technique isn’t real ray tracing at all.

🤯

[DVAcme]

If Sony lied about SSD, then why did Microsoft incorporate it as an essential part of the XBSX as well?

Clickbait article.

[zahdab]

just like the ps4 can run spiderman doesn't mean it is equal to the ps5 implementation

[TheDoomedGuy]

I'm confused here. Are gaming journalist this daft?
Let me think here. Is the ability to switch between worlds at fast speed new? Nope. So why would they think that it's that feature that makes the game unplayable on previous consoles.

I Know full well that all future games are playable on previous consoles. You just have to take down polygon count, shadows, VFX, ray tracing, resolution,etc.

The game would have less stuff going on in the screen at once, less enemies, less lod less of everything...a lot less...

So basically yeah...it's possible if you don't want the game to play or feel like it does ok the ps5 yeah...

But the point is that the version they developed is not playable on previous consoles.

[navi87]

https://www.youtube.com/wat...

There is a section in that video about how Crash bandicoot got around the tiny memory available on the PSX. This is what a developer can do when working within constraints and arent lazy.
So just imagine this with HD graphics...yeah pretty much what the guy in the video is talking about regarding Ratchet & Clank on the PS5.

[VariantAEC]

He literally talked about using lossy compression just to get animations to fit into memory too!
Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart doesn't need to compress the data in a lossy way. There's no need to sacrifice the quality of the art to achieve your vision doing really crazy things like swapping entire levels out.
It doesn't mean Insomniac is cutting corners though it just means less consideration is needed to get that done with far less effort.

The reason there are only a handful of games in existence that do what Jon Burton and most people are talking about here - sans Prey (06) and Portal which don't do anything like what R&C:RA is doing anyway - like Titanfall 2 and Dishonored 2 (and even so only in single level each) is simply because it was really ••••••• hard!
Like really insanely difficult.

[bradleejones]

Since he is a developer he should show us what it would be like. I bet it would be nothing like what exists on the PS5.