Valve Ordered to Give Apple Information on 436 Steam Games As Part of Epic Games Legal Case

Valve, the makers behind popular game distribution platform Steam, will be forced to hand over aggregate historical sales, price, and other details.

[lodossrage]

I don't like any of these companies.

However, I dislike this ruling. Why should a company that has nothing to do with the lawsuit be dragged into it. So Value is being forced to give a competing company data about how they work So that Apple can defend itself against another competitor.

Valve doesn't even compete in the mobile gaming space.

So is it safe to assume Sony, Nintendo, and Microsoft will be dragged in to give data on how they do business just so Apple can fight off Epic, or is this "honor" just reserved to Valve?

[Tacoboto]

Valve is relevant in that they are a competitor to Epic's own store front on PCs, and that they take a 30% revenue cut from sales like Apple does, in distribution of digitally-owned gaming applications.

The article also references its source article detailing that Apple has "salted the earth with subpoenas" so, hopefully, Epic has their hypocrisy fully laid out in front of them when Sony, Nintendo, and MS got off the hook for the same 30% cut Apple takes

[lodossrage]

"Valve is relevant in that they are a competitor to Epic's own store front on PCs, and that they take a 30% revenue cut from sales like Apple does, in distribution of digitally-owned gaming applications."

That's the point which makes Valve irrelevant to the situation. They have their store on PCs, Which is a Market Apple doesn't compete in.

As for the hypocrisy, there's enough of that to go around with ALL of these companies.

The reason I complain about this is because of how this can effect even small businesses going forward.

Imagine this scenario:

Company A, has a store that sells cars is suing Company B, who also sells cars. But in order to make their case,
Company A names and subpoenas Company C, who sells airplanes, a company that has nothing to do with it lawsuit, just to gain insight on how how Company B operates just because they share some of the same manufacturers.

In other words, Company C is being forced to divulge how they do business, just because A has a bone to pick with B.

[CS7]

@lodossrage

Imagine this:
Company A sells digital software and company B also sells digital software. In order to make their case Company A subpoenas Company C who also sells digital software.

This helps them show that Company B who is say that when two software companies compete the prices go down, is lying, as B and C both exist together with no difference to customer pricing.

C is being dragged into this because they have relevant data to the case and are the ones who started the 30% model for digital software sales.

Not that hard to understand.

[lodossrage]

@CS7

The problem with your comparison is that we're talking about two different store fronts. One on PC and the other in the Mobile space.

It is "that" hard to understand because INSTEAD of naming another mobile store, they name a store that doesn't even compete in the space.

[RazzerRedux]

@CS7

"C is being dragged into this because they have relevant data to the case and are the ones who started the 30% model for digital software sales."

So what? They are not the ones suing anyone or being even being sued. If a court can force a company to reveal its internal data regarding a dispute they are not a part of then they can do the same thing to individuals. I hope Valve fights this. It is a civil lawsuit, not a criminal one.

[frostypants]

It's still not their case. This is like forcing someone to be an expert opinion in a trial that doesn't directly involved them. If Valve played any direct role in all this it would make sense but they don't. Completely unethical that the judge can do this. But Apple's been making a mockery of the legal system for years, so not surprised. Money talks.

[Lore]

How much stock do you own in Apple?

[Profchaos]

It's a rediculas ruling a stinks of US litigation culture if you can't win sue everyone

[Dirty_Lemons]

From what I understand it won't be Epic or Apple themselves who are allowed access to Valve's data. It has to be an independent third party - though if I'm wrong feel free to correct me folks :)

In the end why get annoyed by it at all; companies like Valve have £millions, they won't suffer from this in any meaningful way. That said, it shouldn't be legal to drag other companies into their situation.

[lodossrage]

two things,

It shouldn't be allowed in the first place even if it's a third party. Nobody should be forced to expose themselves as an "example" for a lawsuit they initially have no part of the discovery process, I name RazzerRedux's Bike parts

And as for why be annoyed by this? It's because it's not just about giant corporations. This can effect small businesses and individuals as well.

I gave a scenario above. But here is another, more malicious one.

I'll use people here as an example.

Let's say I own a small business hardware store, Lodossrage's Boat parts. And I go to press a lawsuit on Dirty_Lemons Boat parts. And during the discovery process I name Razzer Redux's Bike parts.

In theory, I can literally use the lawsuit not to initially sue you Dirty_Lemons, but to see Razzer's inner workings on how his business operates.

And yes, people ARE malicious enough to do things like that, especially in the world of small businesses

[badz149]

This is ridiculous.

[DaCajun]

The whole lawsuit is ridiculous. It's just one greedy company going after another greedy company to get more money. With one, Epic, acting like they are championing the little guy and their fanboys are eating it up.

In my opinion and hopefully I'm completely wrong is that if Epic does win then Playstation, Nintendo, and Xbox will be next. The profit they make from game sales and game dlc is the majority of what keeps them in business and if you take that away, say goodbye to consoles. We'll all be playing PC only, which is not a completely bad thing but i enjoy consoles more than playing on PC especially competitive games. No hackers or script kids, still have controller mod cheaters but not a bad as wallhackers and aimbots. Not to mention PC building is getting extremely expensive now due to miners.

[calactyte]

I agree it's one profit seeking company suing another profit seeking company. However, as a game developer, I'm hoping Epic wins this battle. We see 30% of our profits taken from Microsoft, Sony, Apple, Nintendo etc etc. Epic Game Store takes significantly less at 12%. That's a MASSIVE difference. It means more money goes to the creator's of these fine games we gamers like to play. Unless you don't particularly care how much profit an indie game developer makes (that's fair) Epic games is really the "good" guys here. If they win, it'll probably force the entire industry to reduce their percentage cut and that'll mean us game devs can keep making games while also affording to feed our families. Now if on the other hand Apple wins, maybe they decide that 30% isn't enough (for doing NOTHING but allowing your game to be on a digital store shelf mind you), maybe 35% or 40% is better. Maybe that's the trend they'll start and when they do, you won't find nearly as many games getting made.

Side note, most game developers would side with Epic Games for a variety of other reasons. For one, if you wanted to make a Fortnite competitor, Epic Games just freely gives you access to their servers. You don't pay a dime for match making, server upkeep, stat tracking, room and lobby creation...it's kind of crazy. You might say, oh well I bet you only get those benefits if you use their game development platform Unreal Engine. Nope, you get free access, and the ability to setup cross-play between consoles (Xbox SeX versus Sony PS5) with their biggest competitor, Unity as well. I get people being upset about EGS versus Steam where they flat out started buying exclusives. I get it but from where I'm standing I'm glad Steam has a competitor now and I'm glad Epic Games is fighting Apple to reduce these 30% costs.

[Amplitude]

Valve has done amazing things for PC gaming and continues to throw new features and ideas into their store but Epic and Valve are just awful. I honestly don't know how anybody in their right mind could like Apple. Might be one of the least likeable companies ever - up there with EA man. Blows my mind

Epic's solid but their trash exclusivity deals and barebones launcher/store are a huge step back imo

Anyway my point is both these companies are ass so I'm not really cheering for either one

[Amplitude]

Epic and Apple* obviously lol

But anyway - the ruling is also garbage. I guess if it's legal and the decision passed in court then there's not much that can be done. Tis' all sucky

[plmkoh]

No need to cheer any of these companies and it's perfectly normal to have them fight. Once the dust settles just grab any of the benefits you can as a consumer.

[iain04]

Seems strange that a company not directly involved with this spat has to provide their info. Strange world we live in.

[sourOG]

I love it when billionaires fight each other. I’m getting a kick out of Musk shitting on Bezos.

[Father__Merrin]

Valve take 30% out of hard working developers pockets. Epic don't, I wish somehow some ruling came out that any game bought on steam you don't have to rebuy on another store front ie transfer all your games over to Epic

[CBaoth]

oh please, you're misdirecting your angst at Valve. Nintendo is the original greedmonger with their infamous seal of approval and highway robbery royalties. Hate royalties? You know who to blame.

Developers choose to sell their IPs on Steam. Nobody at Valve forces a gun to these people's heads. Remember what it was like back in 2003 to buy a PC game? Or 1993? I bet these devs do.

[Orchard]

Sony, Microsoft & Nintendo all do this too - and long before Valve did. Epic still takes a hefty cut, just not 30%.

Platforms need money to exist. Building & maintaining the platform software/hardware, bandwidth, storage, etc all cost money.

[Kran]

It's stupid and Valve should have to do this, but I can see why they would be forced.

This whole fiasco started with the war between Valve and Epic Games, with Epic trying to complain at Valve for having the platform cut so high. To get to the bottom of it, the courts have to go to the very beginning, which unfortunately started with Valve.

[Nuvem]

Ouch