PS5 Variable CPU Frequency Offers More Flexibility, Opines Dev

Commander 85 developer Marcin Makaj speaks with GamingBolt about the potential benefits of the upcoming PS5’s architecture.

[Boxing1985]

But the armchair Devs said it was bad?

[Mr_Writer85]

It's not bad, it's just not as good as XSX.

What always makes me laugh is that the Xbox fanboys think that by the XSX having better graphics makes the the PS5 visuals rubbish.

And yet they didn't care about visuals this gen, otherwise they wouldn't of had an X1 and they would of bought a PS4.

PS5 games won't look as good as XSX in almost every case, but that doesn't mean the PS5 version will look bad either.

[MetalProxy]

Lots of assuming going on right here..

[Minute Man 721]

@DRambo

I have a feeling it's gonna be a split gen like 360/ps3

[Golfcoachh]

I would say what most dont get is that even thought ps5 has a faster SSD, it doesn't mean the XSX is as slow as a standard hard drive. Both are much faster than what we have today so both will pump info much faster, ps5 probably a bit faster.

[neutralgamer1992]

Mr_Writer85

And how do you know? You call the Xbox fanboys bad the way I see it 99.9% of gamers on this site don't know what they are talking about when it comes to next gen consoles

All they see is 12TF vs 10TF

Developers have said time and time again TF aren't be all end all but guess what because one console has more so it's bragging rights

Games on both next gen consoles will look and at the same. Both are capable of doing native 4K at various FPS. Sites like GB have made their living of gaming developers to say something and publishing an article

As gamers we want to see games and if anything I know what the developers over at Sony are capable of just looks t the last of us part 2 and ghost. All these spec sheet warriors need to realize games sell consoles not specs

But whom am I kidding this is a non stop argumental site now and fanboys know more than those developing games and having longtime developer history

[ABizzel1]

@Minute Man 721

It's going to be nowhere near that. The only reason PS360 was close was because PS3 launched year later and cost anyhwere from $100 - $300 more than the Xbox 360 at launch, you could literally get a Xbox 360 and Wii for less than the 60GB PS3. On top of that games were easier to develop for on 360 compared to PS3 which is why some games were 60fps vs 30fps, or just overall better on 360, and that was the case for the first 1 - 2 years.

That's not the situation here, in fact developers are saying the PS5 is the best console they've ever developed for, the PS5 will not cost up to $300 more than the Series X or Series S (if it launches), and games won't be dramatically better on Series X.

On top of all that the PS3 still outsold the Xbox 360 globally beating the 360 in EU, JP, and RoW by a large margin, with the PS4 extending that margin even further. The PS5 practically has a guaranteed 65m console sold across EU, JP, and RoW and that's if they fumble several things this generation, as the PS4 will have 50m users in EU, JP 10m, and RoW 20m (80m) by the end of this year, and those gamers are more likely to want to take their libraries over to PS5, especially considering we know what games to expect from Xbox first party-wise for the next 2 years because besides 4 of their studios.

Best case scenario Xbox wins back NA and UK, but PlayStation 5 will still likely go on to sell 100m units globally. And best case for Xbox 70m and that's an uphill battle for them depending on how long the generation last.

[Mr_Writer85]

@neuteralgamer

"And how do you know?"

Because I'm neither blind or deluded.

The XSX has better specs, there is no question about it, even DF and any other tech website/youtube channel says this.

I haven't even mentioned TF. But it's an actual fact that the GPU and CPU in the XSX are stronger.

But regardless, PS5 will still have great looking and fun to play games, I won't be bothered that someone with a SX gets slightly better graphics than me, I'm not going to sit there and say "well this game is fun, but I know the SX has better graphics so thereore I can't enjoy this game".

[Voodoopower73]

Your very wrong on so Many levels.

Unreal's engine had to be re-written to keep up with PS5'S SSD.

Higher clocks increase all aspects of the GPU not just the CU'S.

Ram is the same speed. Not split.

Brand new haptic feedback dual sense controller.

Unmatched 3D audio system.

xbox is relying on all CU'S being filled and that never happens. It dosen't scale enough. Ask vega56/64. 64 had 8 more cores and a higher clock.

https://www.gpucheck.com/co...

http://gpuboss.com/gpus/Rad...

Xbox Series X will pull off some serious visuals as well, but PS5 imo is the complete package and it's first party teams are unmatched.

[blackbeld]

History repeats PS5 will dominate again.

[Rude-ro]

How much better can 4k look on game engines dating back to 2000? 🤔😂🤦

Want to know what will make it look better? SPEED!

[Darkborn]

Ps5 games will look better for at least two years. Reason being is they are developing all games to also work on the og Xbox one for two years. A couple third parties might come close, but look at this gen. Still nothing on the one x looks better than horizon or uncharted or the last of us 2. So for two years Xbox won't be able to fully utilize their own console to pump out amazing visuals and right around there, the mid gen consoles should be coming out.

[bouzebbal]

I didn't get my dose of Scorn dev today

[rainslacker]

About the only major advantage that XSX has in terms of graphics capabilities is the resolution can be higher more consistently on the XSX. Frame rates also, but that's going to vary based on developer decisions.

Otherwise, each system has it's own focuses on some more minor graphics processes, but the major ones they're both fairly comparable

Xsx does have some advantages in the gpu compute areas due to a higher CU count.

[gravedigger]

@Mr-Writer

"It's not bad, it's just not as good as XSX. "

I think you'll be surprised. Btw. i saw a more praise for PS5 from 3rd party devs than it was for XSX.

[gravedigger]

@Shaggy :

Quote :

1: The PS5 RAM is slower than the XSX RAM
2: The SXS also has dedicated 3D audio, so nobody really knows if the PS5 audio is "unmatched"

.....

Bandwidth on XSX can be drastically reduced if game use more than 10 GB ( and it will in near future ) and also bandwidth per TF is basically the same on both. Read the txt

The CPU and GPU share the same bus to the same pool of RAM on both the Series X and PS5. There's no way around that. Only when the CPU is doing literally nothing can the GPU utilize the full bandwidth on either one (except it won't have any work to do because the CPU is what queues up work, so that's quite literally never going to happen.)

As I stated above, if you assume the CPU needs the same 48GB/s on both, then you have 400GB/s remaining on the PS5 or about 39.1GB/s/TF for the 10.23TF PS5 (which is a pretty meaningless measure but it's what you're considering here.) On the Series X you have 480GB/s left or about 39.7GB/s/TF for the 12.1 TG CPU. They're in pretty much the same shape at these rates.

The reason why 48GB/s of bus traffic for the CPU on Series X costs you 80GB/s of the theoretical peak GPU bandwidth is because it's tying up the whole 320-bit bus to transmit only 192 bits of data per cycle from the slower portion of RAM we've been told will be typically used by the CPU. 48GB / 192 bits * 320 bits = 80GB of effective bandwidth used to make that 48GB/s available. This is because only six of the ten RAM chips can contribute to that additional 6GB over and above the 10GB of RAM that can be accessed more quickly when all ten are used in parallel.

Regarding audio :

Sony already use 3D audio in PSVR. So, it will be in PS5 too.

Btw. they both have dedicated audio chip. What is being offered here is enhanced with a DSP like processing but we really need to see and hear more to see what this offers and how much in empowers devs, the same for the PS5 Tempest engine but being a SPU in all but name with the DMA access it has been thought through with no CPU time required.

Does the Series X have DMA within its Audio chip design, i really don't think so.
And i think that Tempest chip with all HRTF stuff in PS5 is a bit more advanced than audio chip in XSX

[ILostMyMind]

How do you know "PS5 games won't look as good as XSX in almost every case"?

Explain to us. Please.

[Edito]

PS4 games will look better than series x trust.

[RangerWalk267]

PS5 won't be rubbish. It's a very capable machine. Is the XSX better? Yes! But why does it matter. Everyone should own both.

[Profchaos]

The difference will be pretty minimal like it was at the start of the gen then we will get midgen refreshes and start arguing amongst ourselves again

[jwillj2k4]

Let’s put the best looking xb1x title up against the best looking ps4 pro title and see what looks better.

[outsider1624]

I say let's wait for both sides to showcase their games. This is a marathon not a sprint.

First party games from both sides will decide this "fight". As for third party titles, we don't know yet which is the best to play. On paper it looks like the XSX. Guess we'll have to look st Digital Foundrys tecnical videos. Then we all can fight for who has the most wrinkles, better pixels.

However you got to realise this, the casuals don't care about which place to play best.

[TheSaint]

You're talking out the side of your neck.

[IAreBeMrLee]

*Laughs in God Of War 2*

[Hamzilla77]

PS5 games won't look as good as XSX games you say? Well I have yet to see any game look nearly as good as PS4 Pros FF7 Remake, Horizon Zero Dawn and Days Gone on my X1X...... And X1X beats the pro in most specs.....

[Mithan]

The vast majority of games are cross platform title found on Xbox, Playstation and the PC. This means that the developers will figure out a common denominator and target it to look mostly the same on all the systems. The PC usually gets a bit of an advantage here, but lately, that advantage has diminished due to escalating development costs. If you compare ACOdyssey for example, you will note that a PS4 Pro/X1X versions look fairly close to a PC version on High. The PC IS better of course, but not huge leaps better and the truth is, when playing the game, it fades into the background and you don't notice it. UBISoft probably did a cost/benefit analysis and said "not worth investing millions more into development costs for 5% of the customer base".

Exclusives will of course shine. PS5 exclusives will look better tha Xbox 4 exclusives. Why? Because Sony has better first party developers than Xbox. Only an idiot would try to deny that. Xbox has... Halo, which is always graphically awesome when it comes out, but is eclipsed by Uncharted or Killzone (graphically) for example.

So what does that leave the Xbox with? Probably not much in the end, except sad Xbox fanboys staring at screenshots all day to try and prove why their system is "better", while the Playstation 5 runs circles around it with better exclusive games that look better than anything on the Playstation 5.

Or do you want to try and tell me that Xbox First party titles are better than Playstation first party titles and make yourself look like a complete fool?

[SierraGuy]

Mr. Writer.... please stop writing.

[DarXyde]

What do you mean by "not as good"?

You do know that Sony went out of their way to implement variable frequencies, right? Why would Sony intentionally gimp their hardware? It was done deliberately because maybe, just maybe, this design made more sense for their goals. It literally allows higher CPU activity or GPU activity where unused resources can be put to good use. It's quite genius, actually.

I don't know the extent of your understanding of technology, but you're very much oversimplifying the matter.

[MagUk]

Coming for the Dev who hasn’t had hands on with any of the up coming consoles.

[Kumakai]

it is bad. this is spin. why would you want to slow down your processing? its not running on a battery. Slower clock just means less cycles which means lens compute which means less power. This benefits smartphones and switch more than game consoles so they can preserve battery. a locked frequency means your cycles are always at maximum clock, no dips. Engine is always full throttle, When it comes to graphics that equals more compute performance average.

[Loktai]

All desktop CPU and GPU throttle up and down as needed or warranted by other factors. A desktop pc still throttles it's cpu and in an APU where both are on the same chip, you understand why you may throttle cpu down as it isn't needed in order to for instance keep the system quieter? Guarantee you the Xbox would throttle if it got hot enough , that's simply how modern processors work.

You can ignore everything else and the clocks and just look at raw numbers and say objectively at full clocks on both end the ps5 can do 85 percent of the floating point calculations the Xbox can on gpu and the Xbox can do 50 percent of the i/o throughput the ps5 can do , and be done with it. Going by raw TF if the Xbox runs a game at 60fps and is maxed out the ps5 would run it in the low 50s or need to change a setting UNLESS the game is bottlenecked by fill rate or isn't utilizing all CUs effectivly through split workloads then the difference will be smaller . That's the GPU difference . The storage difference is a game loading in 10 seconds on the series X will load in 5 or so seconds or 3 seconds on Xbox 1.5 on ps5. That's this generations likely outcome .

[rainslacker]

The dev doesn't have to really decide this on their end. If they need more power, it's available to them. It's not a random boost or upclocking, but determined when the game is built. The dev can lock in the highest possible clock if they want, but the reasons for not running at full speed all the time are more for power consumption and efficiency.

I'm honestly not even sure why Sony mentioned this feature, as it's pretty common with modern processors to only run as fast as needed, but run at full speed when necessary. Every PC GPU does this kind of throttling already, and no one seems to make it more than it is.

[darthv72]

But... it isnt really that much of a variable. I mean if it ran at 1.8ghz up to 3.6ghz then we could call it variable because it could run at different GHz in between. The PS5 has regular mode (which it will run in by default) and a boost mode (for specific applications).

[DerfDerf]

This doesn't even make since. In no way shape or form are variable speeds better than a locked one.

[Babadook7]

Nope. Because in a way that’s right. And in another way however that wrong. Being almost locked at 2.23 ghz is better than being locked at 1.9 ghz. Ps5 is not bound by thermals. It’s capped by a limit in controller logic.

[Profchaos]

Who the scorn Devs

[Fishy Fingers]

"besides the difference in PlayStation 5’s more flexible approach, I honestly don’t see a clear winner here.”

He's literally referring to Sony having a "more flexible" (variable) take on their clock speeds rather than locked making little difference. Not that it "offers more flexibility". Deary me, Gamingbolt.

[cbuc1125]

Correct. The ssd speed difference and system architecture is what is going to be the clear winner here. The variable frequency just helps with efficiency and system heat/noise.

[Babadook7]

I agree with you regarding the SSD being a big differentiator if and when devs tap the extra capability. However, he only talked about compute performance here, I believe. CPU and GPU. Nothing mentioned about SSD.

As for the gap he seems to think ease of development will be in PS5's favor.

"According to my experience in developing games for Xbox One and PlayStation 4, usually I got better performance results on PlayStation 4, and I think it will stay the same for the next-gen consoles"

[itsmebryan]

The both have SSD. Does the SSD render images , do ray tracing, do in game physics,. 3d audio? No.

What do you guys think a SSD does besides reduce load times and transfer data?

[sinspirit]

@itsmebryan

I'm not here to tell you that the faster SSD will produce better visuals this gen.

But, GPU's can only render the data they can recieve during the moment, if they can't recieve it, then things don't load and you get pop-ins, low quality meshes, and game designers limit the amount of objects, scale, and scene transitions by what a HDD can do. It's not just lading screens. Those jarringly low quality objects in a game? It's not just laziness. Much of the time, they simply had a little bit of room left for populating a scene after designing around constraints. With an SSD, they can add as many assets to the scene as the GPU can handle, and they can all be high quality. Quite important for new GPU's. Otherwise we'd have the same game design, object and NPC limitations, but just prettier. Now, we will have much denser worlds and higher quality assets that the GPU will be sent to render because the storage medium was able to pump it into the RAM so fast.

Not a single person claims that SSD's render anything. The meaning is that the GPU will now recieve data at such larger intervals that a scene will be built up of far more objects, that are detailed, and complex.

[stuna1]

@itsmebryan

No, a ssd doesn't do all those things you listed, but on a different note it allows all those things you listed to be done much more proficiently.

I really realize that most people didn't understand or comprehend most of what Cerny explained about the PS5 architecture, for example the CPU/GPU scrubbers employed and their uses. Not to mention 12 channel GPU with 4 channels dedicated to their 4.O PCI, or even how they've dedicated 8 stand-alone chips as powerful as the jaguar chips in the PS4 to minimize the workload on the CPU/GPU of the PS5 thereby shortening the rendering time required in-between clocks.

But don't take my word for this, refer to Cerny's deep dive video available on YouTube it explains it all.

[itsmebryan]

@sinspirit and stuna1

Has any Developers said that the SSD in the XSX is a bottleneck? I have been building my own gaming rigs since 1995 and watched storage evolve from 5400 rpm drives to SSD. SSD mostly help load time.
Yes, it gets data to the GPU and CPU faster but, that doesn't make up for having less power. I can put in car terms. You have two Mustangs. The turbo 4 cylinder and the other the V8 GT. You put sticky racing tires on the 310hp turbo and regular tire on the 460 hp V8. The sticky racy (SSD)tires put power to the ground more efficiently But, the more powerful V8 GT will still be faster. The slight advantage Sony SSD is not going to make up the difference of the more powerful XSX.

[Babadook7]

@itsmebryan

The SSD will be a differentiator next gen. Your PC is not a good indictor because games aren't built to require high speed storage. A new gen will change that. As an example, if your assets are managed better (dynamic geometry) you get a better looking game with less GPU work. That can lead to better FPS too. Also if your storage can't keep up you will see blurry textures and lower poly assets.

[illmaticdragon]

@itsmebryan

You have to look at it from a bigger picture.

You're correct in that's what SSDs directly do, but what is more important is what a faster SSD/IO speed will be able to INDIRECTLY do. PS5 will be able to leverage it's faster SSD and IO speed to be able to run games that have large seamless environments or environments with huge amount of characters and objects more smoothly and with a greater amount of object count/detail. Game genres that have big levels and/or lots of data flying around will benefit the most, like MMOs and RPGs, RPGs with online Co-Op gameplay, and open world adventure games. Games with big open worlds, especially MMOs with big open areas that have lots of enemies and players on screen at the same time, such as during a big cross faction PvP fight for a rare open world boss, will benefit greatly and we might even see some MMO developers opt to develop their game first, or even exclusively, on PS5 for a change. Travel portals/gates will be instantaneous. And in some cases, no need for a portal or gate, you'll be able to walk into a new dungeon level without waiting and you won't notice that the game has loaded up a new dungeon raid instance for you and your party.

[UltraNova]

Expect GP to milk this interview to death over the coming weeks.

[Tacoboto]

From the ever-credible dev with no next-gen dev kits, a kickstarter with fewer than 600 backers that's being released on current-gen consoles, and just a single mixed-rated game from 4 years ago on Steam...

[RangerWalk267]

Ram speed, SSD speed, CPU threads/cores, and bandwidth will be what gets the appropriate data to the GPU and CPU. XSX has an advanced AI learning system to compress data and unpack data at an incredible rate. All in all... The XSX has the most advanced piece of tech. It's all about the games though. All of the advantages it has over the PS5 won't mean a thing if they don't produce bangers like PS4 did this gen.

[IGiveHugs2NakedWomen]

Gamingbolt is trash.

[itsmebryan]

@Babadook7

We will see who is right this November.

P.s. it's me.

JK. We just have to wait and see.

[Thundercat77]

Devs are praising the PS5 saying it has the best architecture of any console out there.

Strong praise among the Devs community.

[Tacoboto]

This developer isn't working on a next-gen game and doesn't even have a dev kit. The article even points out his opinions are based on just words and the internet...

[Gardenia]

I've seen reactions from different people in the gaming industry who know what they are talking about, and they all say PS5 is more powerful than you might think at first. It is not about Teraflops anymore in this generation of consoles. What is more important is the SSD and getting rid of the bottleneck problems, and that is exactly what Sony is doing right.

But how the Xbox and PS5 really perform we have to wait and see.

[Tacoboto]

"reactions from different people in the gaming industry" Yeah, like this one, right? Gaming Bolt articles from people with opinions formed by other opinions. Doesn't even matter if they have the hardware...

Opinions will truly matter - and have the evidence to back it up - in at least a year or two when developers actually know the hardware they've *been* working on, not just opining about what they could maybe one-day possibly do if they even get a dev kit.

[waverider]

like another studio that doesnt work with PS5 and talks like it does?

[Tacoboto]

Scorn dev: "We can’t discuss any info regarding PlayStation"
You: "...doesnt work with PS5 and talks like it does"

If you're gonna defend GamingBolt, at least read GamingBolt.

[boing1]

You don't have to have a dev-kit to understand the benefits. You just have to have the knowledge. I think most developers, big and small, know exactly what kind of benefits this hyper-ssd tech will provide. It's math, really.

[pornflakes]

@ Gardenia - then maybe SOny should build in 2 SSDS instead of the GPU to output better graphics :P :P??

PS5 new SSD = PS3 CELL - 120 FPS confirmed.... do you remember the first killzone and Motorstorm trailers? LOL - pure fake news

The PS5 GPU will run with 9.2 Tflops and 10.2 in Boost mode. Why did Cerny did not mention the graphics power without boost mode? He said that they are confident that games will use the full GPU clock speed. Confident does not mean confirmed....The DEV kits run with 13 TFLOPS with stable clock speed... why?? I smell a nice design (again) contra heet, thats why they like to use the word "boost mode"

[xXxSeTTriPxXx]

I'm no tech expert by no means but, if a game doesn't require the full 10 tflops why would it use it?

If the content needs 10flops then it's their.

Why make it seem like something other than that?

[Babadook7]

This is the dumbest post I’ve even read. Thanks for the lol pornflake

[boing1]

Dev-kits always have overhead for tools.

[RangerWalk267]

Thundercat77

That's simply not true. The only thing Sony has been complemented on was making the SSD as fast as it is "in house". It transfers data quick, but then comes the limits. In the GPU and the bandwidth of the RAM.

[StoneyYoshi]

I'd prefer to have unified memory. Only 10GB of that 16 is available for games. Where the PS5 has roughly 100gbps less but has more ram to work with for the games. This will be more of a factor later into the generation when the systems are being used to their full potential and games for the XSX can only utilize 10GB and Sony will have more available. I'm sure some of that 16 is reserved for the OS (Linux based) but it definitely won't need 6GB thanks to not relying on a thirsty Windows 10 Based OS.

[Kribwalker]

what would give you more flexibility. Having to slow the cpu down to increase the GPU, therefore losing computational power, vice versa, or having a consistent amount of power, that is greater than either boosted clock speed to allow you to maximize both cpu and gpu?.

[crazyCoconuts]

"says dev" replaced with "opines dev". Gotta appreciate the variety

[RaidenBlack]

Good use of quick googling

[Tross]

Today on I went to University I swear, we have someone who learned a word from a random user on a gaming site. Actually, I admit to googling that immediately after seeing crazyCoconut's post too, and I agree that it is an appropriate appellation.

[rainslacker]

With GB, something positive for Sony is an opinion. Something positive for MS is a declarative fact.

[tontontam0]

-

[smolinsk]

I absolutely believe the higher SSD and the more flexible console will be great for developers. It's what they asked for. Especially for open worlds games it's gonna be huge as bozo the Trump would say.

[Software_Lover]

How are either of these consoles ‘More flexible’ when they use the same architecture? Please explain.

One has a fster SSD, one has a better GPU and faster memory (some of it).

[Zeke68]

"How are either of these consoles ‘More flexible’ when they use the same architecture? Please explain."

They don't use the same architecture. Because if they did, they would be able to play eachothers games, and they simply don't do that. Check technical walkthroughs by DF on Xbox and Cernys deepdive for the PS5 and educate yourself. Or, if that's too hard for you, just hold the gamepad, play games and let the rest to people how understand how this is working technically...

[smolinsk]

But it's not the same architecture, that's why.

[MecheSlays]

Zen 2 and RDNA2 are the same architecture. The only thing thats different is the SSD's PS5's just has twice the speed in that department. They both can send data directly to the cpu and gpu without needing to use ram at all.

[Software_Lover]

I wish that I could reply directly to Zeke68 but I can't.

Software solutions aside, they use the same architecture, made by the same vendor. There are custom parts to the silicon in different areas yes, but they are inherently the same in most aspects.

I appreciate the personal insult though. It lets me know to block you.

[akaFullMetal]

Ease of development was a big thing when designing PS4 and now Cerny has gone the extra step to make triangling even easier on PS5, even beating psone it appears.

[stuna1]

Yeah, he said it took 1 to 2 months on a PS1, but now it takes 1 month on PS5.

Gotta love it when people hate to acknowledge the truth especially when it's readily available to them! smh.

[Mulando]

Because it is "just" a PC with a decent enough GPU & CPU and a really good SSD.
Yes it is easy to work with x86 Architecture (even on PS4 it was easy) but now with more CPU-power it a even easier.
Nothing surprising here.

[Tacoboto]

People were dismissing the Scorn developer but no one's questioning this one? This guy doesn't even have a dev kit!

"his opinions are based on his “knowledge from presentations and the internet”"

Read the article, folks!

[stuna1]

Did Scorn have a developers kit of the PS5? Looking at a from a different perspective, looking at actual developers coming forward praising or even acknowledging either console, which is actually being talked about the most positively? Less not forget one hasn't even been shown yet.

[Tacoboto]

Irrelevant if he has both or not. Fact is one person has a dev kit and commented on the system they had the dev kit for. Because they have experience with an actual next-gen dev kit. This guy doesn't. He's read things and been told things likely in the same YouTube videos we've watched, and doesn't even have a game being worked on for next-gen.

And for Gaming Bolt to be so irresponsible as to report an inexperienced opinion, well... let's not forget the one website that keeps pushing articles like these.

[I'm *not* saying which system will end up being more effectively used and optimized for - just be realistic on the opinions of people working with ANY hardware versus those that admit to be doing nothing with either, and the websites that source those kinds of developers]

[Kiwi66]

The point he's making is that people are quick to dismiss the opinion of a dev who praises xbox but champion the opinion of a dev who praises ps

[Tacoboto]

@Kiwi Not only that, but that (1) this dev doesn't have experience with either, (2) admits it in the article, *and* (3) he doesn't even really praise the PS5.

[pwnmaster3000]

No one is dismissing Scorn at first, but after the 100th article about them praising series x, people is starting to wonder if they are praising series x because of the choice to go series x exclusive.

[Tacoboto]

That's not reality man. That's gaming bolt taking one interview that another outlet did and them making 100 articles from that one interview.

[rainslacker]

Arent every person on forums saying that it cant be true also getting their information from the internet.

I'd be the first to say take most of the devs that GB talks to with a grain of salt, but just because a dev doesn't have the resources needed to work on a console, or chooses not to, doesn't mean that their thoughts arent more credible. At least to a point. They do have a better understanding of how games are made, and if they make any half decent in scope console game, they're probably going to at least have run into some of these things.

GB does like to present some of these devs as authoritative to the subject matter, but in this case, the dev did specify it was his opinion. Wrong or right, we will see as time goes on, and hes not the only dev who has expressed this opinion, and some of them are credible

[DivoJones]

I'll generally avoid fueling the typical fanboy rage and just limit my response to saying that a locked clock speed is better than variable. Either way I'd expect there will be a little time before either the PS5 or XSX are pushed to their limits by a game, and only game developers should give a crap about it. Both will be significantly faster than their previous versions due to the SSD and increased bus speeds on CPU/RAM... so enjoy!

[Software_Lover]

Ummmm did anyone read the article? I see that only a few above did.

I'm just ready to purchase mine. I hate the lead up to new consoles. It's just like American politics and election season.

[Minute Man 721]

WoW. Ok

[ShadowWolf712]

"Opines"

Gaming Bolt getting fancy.

[Kumakai]

ummm not really sure how. the slower the clock, the less power. only thing its good for is reserving power (actual electricity) and heat. Similar techniques are employed in smartphones to reduce battery drain. Thats like saying the economy mode in my bmw offers more driving flexibility... technically it does: it gives me the option to use a driving mode that is slow and underpowered and not the reason i bought a high performance car. so i dont use it. same thing here. Whats worse is the frequency changes are done dynamically so power can fluctuate. This is why MS made such a big deal of their LOCKED frequency: It forces everything to run at 1 static high speed; ie no slowdown.

[Anomander]

Finally someone else gets it. PS5 basically has two gears. Slow and slower, while the Xbox is locked in at Cruise control.

[KRUSSIDULL]

All consoles/pc varies in frequency otherwise the fans would spin at max all the time to dissipate heat. When talking about PS5 variable frequency is that you have a set power/heat budget and run either the CPU or the GPU at higher clock speeds.

[sinspirit]

The only slowdown on PS5 is the clock speed when games don't max out the processor. It downclocks to whatever is necessary to maintain the games framerate. If it is demanding, it will run at max clock just as the SX does. It's not complicated. The only exception Cerny said is if a worst case game came out that was so ridiculiusly demanding that the power budget would be fully maxed out, then it could downclock a few percent to save, for example, 10% power budget for just a few percent reduction in performance. A worst case game that fully maxes the power budget is unlikely to occur. It would mean maxing out so many system resources simultaneously. The CPU is unlikely to be maxed out even for next gen gaming and will consistently provide SmartShift benefits to the GPU. Maxing out isn't just max clock btw. Some games that are more demanding will cause GPU's to run below max clock because their power budget will limit maintaining the max clock regardless of temperature.

[Mulando]

That is not true. You can quite easy saturate every CU on RDNA, like on nvidias current Cards. It was hard with GCN to get "everything" out of the theoretical power, but with RDNA this changed drastically. And btw, it is really easy to give the GPU parallel work.
And if the GPU is more and more maxed out, it draws a hell lot more power, so in those cases the PS5 GPU must reduce it's clockspeed. I guess we all know the first party games of Sony and how they "hurt" the consoles (never heard so loud PS3s and PS4s as with some first party titles). This is contraproductive in those cases. The more you optimize, the "denser" the GPU is used the higher is the required energy. On the other hand developers will use everything they can to also use the CPU, but that doesn't really work that well with dynamic frequencies.
Btw, the CPU is a low clocked ryzen. On this level, the CPU doesn't use that much energy at all, even under stress. So it has not much to spare for the GPU if the clocks go down even lower.

[sinspirit]

@Mulando

Those games didn't "hurt" the console. Demanding? Yeah. But, the temperature tests of the PS4 had it the same as the X1. The issue with PS4 is not poor thermals. It's poor fan design that only affects noise production. Small fans are louder, and ramping up to speeds that are way higher than neccessary to keep the system cool. Not all models have the loud fans, but the internal temperature is mostly the same.

Cerny already spoke about "the worst case game". It's rarely, if ever, gonna happen. But, would have to be something that would be so demanding that everything maxes their power budget. In this example, the GPU would only drop a few percent in clocks to save 10% power draw.

That's true. But, it's still probably around a 50W chip for a 200W GPU. Having SmartShift isn't just being able to send power that the CPU doesn't use. It's also when the GPU ramps up and needs a quick fix it won't result in frame dipping and stuttering like some games have till it stabilizes under load.

That's not really true. Just having the CU's doing something doesn't mean you're reeeaally utilizing them. It certainly helps, but if they aren't specifically optimized for and given equal task distribution then they won't give full performance benefits out of several CU's.

[343_Guilty_Spark]

I'm still trying to figure out how a more powerful CPU or GPU with sustained clocks is worse than one with a variable clock.

[sinspirit]

It's not about the GPU. It's about the feature benefit. The variable speed just means the game that isn't demanding will use a lower clock speed, demanding games will run the max speed. It's a better feature to have variable, but variable doesn't make the same GPU at a locked speed run better. That's not what anyones saying. Variable just saves resources when they aren't necessary to use. Now, this leads to another benefit. SmartShift, which can send resources to the GPU from more avenues, which can improve gaming stability and allow the GPU to get closer to max capabilities. SmartShift is what's important here, but it would hardly mean anything if not for variable design. This doesn't mean it's as powerful as the SX GPU. It just means the PS5 GPU is closer to its theoretical performance tha it would without these features. And, IF devs don't take advantage of higher CU count, then it's something PS5 won't be bothered by much, but SX will.

[pornflakes]

@ Sinsprint Wrong - they will only use MAX GPU clock speed if the CPU does not need much power but if the CPU will run at MAX (Open world games for example or if much is going on screen) then the GPU will have to be on lower clock speed (9.2 Tflops??). Thats why they use for CPU and GPU variable clockspeed.

COnsidering this fact and sonys patent for heet solving i think it has to do something with the PS5 design.

Sony fanboys laugh about the fridge XSX but at least MS confirmed that it will run as quite as the One X which is super quite.

[sinspirit]

@pornflakes

If you even mention the rumored and disproven TFlop nonsense you discredit any rational thought. Don't even use the term fanboy. What's wrong with you just looking to be part of some digital video game gang? Drop the nonsense and biased thinking.

Max clock speed does not mean something is max power. Modern CPU's are hardly utilized, and PC CPU's are extremely unoptimized for gaming. An open world game will not be maxing out a CPU just because it's open world. It's a much higher end CPU than last gen.

Cerny himself said a WORST case game. An open world game doesn't make it immediately worst case. Nothing you said indicates any level of technical understanding. A worst case game is required to SLIGHTLY drop the GPU clock speed. Cerny said a WORST case game is going to be exceptionally rare. Don't say "much power" to make it seem like the CPU can barely do anything without limiting it. We already have the information. It will very rarely, if at all, max out the power budget.

No one cares about the fridge comments here but you. Those jokes were old after the first day. I don't know what fanboys you reply to, but you should understand what person you're replying to. I'm not speaking BS and word play. I'm being technical so understand core material before getting into it.

[pornflakes]

@ sinprit

Well whatever... you have your opinion and i have mine. At least you sound decent, respect.

[Mulando]

How does lower CPU clockspeeds (at times) make it easier or more flexible?
Yes it is more flexible than lower clockspeeds for CPU & GPU but not for holding higher clockspeed because of better power delivery and cooling.
Less frequency changes make it a hell lot easier to get the most of a console.

[sinspirit]

@Mulandro

Not exactly.

The developer doesn't have to adjust frequency here. The system raises it as the game gets more demanding. How would a locked clock be easier than this to get more out of it? This gives developers more representations of how much more power they have left in the system. Now, even though their game probably runs at 60fps constantly, but isn't demanding enough, it could run at 1.9ghz in testing for example. But, lets say the notice it suddenly ramping up to 2.1ghz even though their frame counter never dropped. Now they have a different representation for development to know that something already there is demanding before adding more to it. They already know if their scene is getting demanding, or if their is an underlying performance hitch in their code.

It will be nice to see if the extra power delivery to the GPU will lower the times there is sudden load with stuttering and frame-pacing issues.

[ILostMyMind]

It is not a "more powerful GPU", it just have more CUs witch can be used or not. Actually it is slower than PS5 GPU.

[rainslacker]

It's not worse. Just different. But, in general, the power can be segregated between two parts of the APU, leading to a total of the max speed, but under normal conditions, would just run at the lower speed

So, if there is a particularly demanding part of the game, itll ramp up the speed of the gpu.

This helps insure that the processor is maximizing its efficiency, and to a lesser extent, and I'm unclear on this so far, it allows for more of the processor to be utilized per cycle instead of just having wasted downtime. Basically, as I understand it, it spreads the workload more evenly.

This is something that can be done on any processor, but sonys solution is supposedly set up so the dev doesnt have to take an active part in that kind of optimization...which most dont nowadays because game engines tend to work that out to some extent.

[Einhander1971]

With regards to some saying XSX will have better visuals, I think Naughty Dog alone will put that nonsense to bed. Its how you utilize the tech, and get right to the metal of the system. ND have ICE team to do just that.

[ChristopherJack]

Why is it a juvenile competition to almost everyone else here?

XSX games will almost definitely look & run better.

PS5 games will almost definitely load & switch better.

XSX has a mixed history with exclusives but has a renewed gamer centric vision(relative to the horrendous Xone launch) & new renown studios making exclusives.

PS5 has a proven track record with quality exclusives & is making next gen only games earlier.

Arguing any of this that would be childish, especially the condescendingly pretentious kids pretending to understand Cerny's demonstration then somehow using that as a reason "Sony will demolish you xbots".

[Charal]

I will believe in the renewed gamer centric vision when I will see the games in the stores.
MS is playing this card for years know since One X launch, and as never delivered so far.

[Sayai jin]

Honestly asking, ehat experience has the dev had with the PS5?

[waverider]

the same that other that speak crap without ever got a devkit from ps5 and being at best an average studio.

[JEECE]

Hopefully by the time PS5 comes out, we'll have more information on how AMD "Smartshift" works (which is what Sony is using in PS5. It's all well and good to hear about it in theory, but I'd much rather see how it is actually working in PCs that use the tech. So far I'm only aware of one: a new version of the Dell G5 laptop that just came out last month.

[ChristopherJack]

Sounds like it's just boost mode. Kicks in when needed otherwise runs at lower speeds. I wonder how sustainable the top speed is.

[chiefJohn117]

A lot of insecurities going on in this thread lol

[ApocalypseShadow]

Opines... Brother...Gaming bolt is so...lol..anyway..

I'm not all that technical when it comes this. But maybe I'm seeing this differently. Like a car. Cars don't travel at top speed all the time. Even the fastest cars don't. They change their rate of speed depending on the situation.

You don't drive at top speeds around corners or hills or whatever type of dangerous road. You don't idle at top speed or rpm. You only hit full power when it's necessary. Sony's variable rate looks the same to me compared to a car.

I'm just going to wait and see Sony prove why they they did it, why they custom designed the SSD, why they are going with tempest, why they changed from regular rumble to new haptics, etc.

It's the only way to really shut gamers up either way. But Cerny don't look stupid or sound stupid. And he's got 106+ million PS4 sales under his belt. So I'm going to trust his judgement but wait for the proof.

[rainslacker]

To some degree that's a somewhat appropriate analogy. But I would use acceleration instead of top speed. A car with modest power can achieve a standard goal(say 60mph) fairly easily. But, if you need to go faster, a car can accelerate beyond that for short periods of time. Disregard other physics which may make it a rough ride. That car however isnt going to exceed its top speed, and acceleration will slow down exponentially as you go faster.

A more powerful car can get to a higher top speed, usually faster...ignoring the displacement variable, and maintain that speed as it's likely the top speed is higher.

So, in this analogy, the XSX would be a more powerful car whose engine runs at full speed(although it uses a variable clock also), and gets to that speed( the processes) faster and with more consistent results. The ps5 will be a decent sports car that is more akin to a regular car in terms of acceleration unless you open up the throttle, in which case, itll perform more like a sports car would...but not as powerful as the sports car represented by the xsx.

[ApocalypseShadow]

Appreciated rain. And that's how I see it. I can see the analogy. But better said. PS5 is powerful and fast. XSX is a little bit more powerful and faster in certain areas.

I guess certain people are thinking we're saying PS5 is more powerful than XSX. Which most of us know it's not or care that it is or not. Only that what Sony is doing, hopefully works for what they're trying to accomplish.

As long as the games feel next gen, and VR improves beyond this gen, I'm all good. PS5 being a fraction less powerful is meaningless to us. Because we know what Sony's capable of with or without that fraction over other consoles. Not once did I think to myself that Xbox One X having that extra fraction or Ultra Blu-ray with that extra fraction should push me to go out and buy it. Because 1st party and VR negates whatever Microsoft are doing with that extra fraction. Besides my not liking their strategy when it comes to gaming.

[rainslacker]

It's not a perfect analogy, and re-reading it I don't think I really explained it right. But, it's good enough since most people have made up how they feel about it

I believe some people are overthinking it for whatever reason. For all intents and purposes, if the dev wants the full 10+TF, then they can get it. Or they can redistribute that power. It isn't something where they're mostly just going to have 9+TF, and maybe sometimes only have access to the 10. It's still less TF than the XSX, but TF only take you so far, as a TF is only a measure of flop ratings. What's important is what you do with that flop data, and how efficient processes can be completed with a given amount of flop data.

Games for next gen will look good. That isn't something people have to worry about. The differences are not even going to be as stark as what we saw with 360/PS3 in the later years when devs pulled their heads out of their asses and started implementing the CELL properly....which is to say, they'll look mostly the same with talent meaning more than power.

[Bluemaster77]

This narrative around the variable clocks is really strange. Never in the history of engineering (all fields included) is it better to have variable anything when it comes to a target performance.

Now all of a sudden it offers flexibility ? How?? lol how would it not have made more sense for sony to just lock the GPU at 2.25ghz and the CPU at 3.5?

Can someone please explain to me how the possibility to go below your peak performance is superior to having locked peak performance.

[ApocalypseShadow]

It's not about which one is better than the other. It's if it works for Sony in changing the speed to fit the need of their system. Who cares what Microsoft is doing with their system. It's irrelevant.

As I said above, when you're in your car, do you floor it everywhere you go? No. Does your car fan turn on and stay on to cool the system? Nope.

By not running max all the time, Sony saves energy. You know, carbon footprint. Staying cooler means the fan doesn't need to be running all the time.

When Sony shows their cooling solution, it'll probably explain a lot besides the other things they'll talk about. But if you watch Cerny again, he already says they can run max or near it. But why should you all the time when it's not necessary.

It's like when he spoke about BC. He said BC was built in. But people only saw the 100 games running in boost mode and ran stories talking about only 100 games are compatible. It's just funny when people see him talking, but aren't listening.

[rainslacker]

That's not true at all. Variable just means that it's not running full speed all the time. Almost no processor runs at full speed all the time anymore. I'm not even sure why Sony mentioned it other than to get the 10tf rating out there. There is a bit of allowing the power to go to different parts of the processor, which was done in the ps3, but not so much that I feel the description made by cerny accurately reflects what's happening with this tech.

[ILostMyMind]

Simple. When the game does not need the maximum computational power of the CPU / GPU it will save energy and reduce the temperature of the components.

[Kaedro]

Wow gamingbolt finally turning their trash articles into high quality. Before it was "says dev" and now it's "opines dev". Fancy. /s

[OB1Biker]

I'm expecting a lot of gaminbolt on N4G next gen. They ve got this lol

[RazzerRedux]

Wait for the benchmarks and then we will know the differences. This is all just speculation at this point.

[ILostMyMind]

Consoles don't have benchmarks and the first games are not the best subjects for comparisons we can use.

[RazzerRedux]

Of course they do. What do you think DF and others have been doing for so long,

[Bebedora]

This is where skynet starts!

[Games1st]

It's variable to reduce noise, heat and make the console last longer.

[Bruh]

I love how the people of N4G make fun of arm chair engineers who promote the Series X while completely ignoring similar arm chair engineers that claim the PS5 is somehow the more powerful system.

Nonetheless, we all know why Sony is opting for variable rates. They wanna keep the console as quiet and operating as cooly as possible for QOL improvements. This however in no way means it can match Xbox's strengths in GPU size, CPU speed, faster RAM etc

[Yodasfavoritesoda]

I’m just not buying this. More power is always better. It just is what it is. I don’t have much faith in developers doing the work to get the most out of a variable clock system. If they are having trouble getting max performance out of the system they are just gonna play it safe and optimize their game to run at lesser values and treat any added power as overhead.

[aaronaton]

So a Dodge Viper was faster than a Honda NSX back in day?? But surely the Dodge was quicker as it had more power?!?!

[averagejoe26]

Sony is the king of consoles. They know what they're doing. Xbox has been out of touch for almost a decade now.

Can't wait for Sony to bring real next gen games. I'll wait until Xbox is done focusing on last gen before I even consider buying a series X. Who buys a new console to play old and held back games? Not me.

Bring us into the next gen, Sony. We're ready.

[Wontime1]

Spin it however you want, doesnt change the fact the fixed is better than variable.
Like others have said, this guy isnt working on a next gen game, doesnt have a devkit.

[GamingSinceForever]

Losstime1 you have no idea what you are talkingabout.

[sinspirit]

Explain to us why you think that.

If I have a locked 2080Ti instead of variable. What would I have to gain? If a game provides a demanding workload, it already clocks the card at max speed, the same speed as it would be if it weren't variable. So, what performance edge does locked have? They already stated the PS5 will not be throttled by their substantial cooling solution, and even fixed cards throttle and drop clock speed. The benefits of variable is saving energy and therefore no wasted heat. The benefits of SmartShift is that when one processor, GPU or CPU, is not fully utilized, it can send resources to the other when it needs it. Power is one of these resources. Power is everything to this silicon. So, you have an energy efficient system with a super efficient resource delivery method. Meaning, the GPU doesn't just work side by side with the CPU.

Because the CPU and various resources are unlikely to be fully maxed, leaving resources to be delivered to the GPU from more avenues. The CPU is that kid that at lunch that doesn't eat all their food and throws you a portion of their meal even when you already brought one. Sure, some days he might eat all his meal. But, most of the time he's got extra left over and you get to have your cake and eat his too. There is no negative to variable, especially in a console where efficiency is supposed to be a large focus.

[carlosjrix]

"According to my experience in developing games for Xbox One and PlayStation 4, usually I got better performance results on PlayStation 4, and I think it will stay the same for the next-gen consoles,” Cool

[sagapo]

It only offers flexibility for powerconsumption imo, but as a gamer I don’t care at all how much juice my console needs.

[Jsm89k]

I was pretty upset when they announced the ps5. But then others started explaining to me why my anger was misplaced and after reading several n4g users explain why it's great I changed my tune. I mean Sony already has the best in the business when it comes to graphics so I'm very curious to see what they can do with the new tech.

[Xavi4K]

nextgen can't come sooner...can't wait to put my hands on Spiderman 2 , Horizon 2 and even play persona 6 in 60fps with 4k.....good days are coming my Gamer friends!

[LordJamar]

Uh huh cool story bro so sick of the he said she said devs interviews ima just gonna wait for for Sony to prove it at there event prove to me how much of a difference it is with your ssd prove to me the speed compared to series X prove it all to me at the event.

[plmkoh]

Piss off Gamingbolt

[bneals]

Not for nothing, but "flexible" is a synonym for "variable". He didn't say a flexible and/or variable processor is better. For whatever it is worth, Nothing new here folks.

I have never read a story about a game developer saying that consistent, greater CPU power wasn't desired. As such, although the proof will come in the form of games for years to come, it is hard to see how a variable processor that fluctuates the amount of power it can generate would have equal or greater power than a processer clocked at a higher locked rate. Then again, Sony's studios have always seemed to get the most out of their consoles so I see great games on both consoles.

He did say is that he believes that the power difference between the XSX and PS5 isn't that great (we'll see about that) and that he believes that the PS4 was easier to work on than the Xbox X and that he believes that will continue.

[Emme]

I explain it easily: Xbox is faster and has better heat and noise management. Thats why it doesnt need a variable frequency.

[Mulando]

lol "flexible". Sry, but that is big bulls***
If the frequency is high enough at all times, it is good. But if you really need it all you can never be sure that you have the full cpu capacity at your disposal. Fixed frequencies should always be easier to develop for. I would agree that boost are nice if I know the minimum spec the cpu reaches. Than I calculate with that and be happy if some things go a bit faster. But in the end it is wasted potential.
Sony should just have skipped those frequencies, let the developer choose from frequency sets (for CPU & GPU) and than you know what you have and can deal with it. They should just build in a superb cooling solution that is quite and deliver stable frequencies all the time.

[BenRC01]

Sounds like a heat issue to me. Gonna end up with a boeing 747 under my tv like the bloody pro.

[yolofe4]

i love it