1120°

The Future of Anti-Aliasing

Digital Foundry: The current HD console generation is maturing, and developers are looking for ever more ingenious ways of extracting better-quality visuals from the fixed hardware configurations available, while conserving as much system performance as possible.

One of the key components in a quality, polished graphical presentation is anti-aliasing - the process whereby the distortion effects generated by rendering a higher-resolution image into a lower-resolution framebuffer are diminished. The most infamous - and perhaps the most off-putting - aliasing artifacts are of course the dreaded edge "jaggies".

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eurogamer.net
Inside_out4704d ago (Edited 4704d ago )

.
I know there are differences and to different degree's but it seems that it has more to do with design decisions and artistic style than anything else.

I mean...just look at this footage on what is suppose to be the inferior and lowly little 360...Crysis 2...

http://youtu.be/kF67XFXq_ys

They had to recreate a REAL city with many straight lines and it looks INCREDIBLE!!!

I here what they are saying but taking a image and expanding it 150% means very little to me. If people didn't even point alot of this stuff out, who would notice.

People killed Alan wake including DF, who recanted after the fact but the damage was done. Alan wake was 540p with 4xAA which was chosen because of all the atmospheric reasons and looked fantastic on the big screen...does this look bad???...lol

http://youtu.be/Hr7fuTXednc

Gears of war 3 apparently doesn't have any AA...O_o...then why does it look INCREDIBLE...

http://youtu.be/efYjoNaEA5c

M$ and lionhead were excited about this tech demo and it edge smoothing technique...Ok, I guess...

http://youtu.be/D3vf1CPaR38

I'm in the if it looks good, then leave it. Who cares what the pixel counters think.

SkittlesLikesPopcorn4704d ago

you are completely clueless... why do you even bother writing?

Looks the same? Get new glasses. All those jaggies are immersion breaking ugly POS.

AA is awesome.

Ofc you wouldnt think that b/c u game on ancient consoles rofl.

JsonHenry4704d ago

I wish they could "Downsampling" or something like Witcher 2's "Ubersampling". AWESOME. But a huge hit to performance.

MysticStrummer4704d ago

I'd say AA reached a "good enough" point this gen. I don't really notice jaggies most of the time, no matter how many people claim their eyes are bleeding. I'd rather more resources were put into things like AI than to try and make AA marginally better.

Stewie2k84704d ago

yes he doesn't really know what he's on about but this is where you sound like a pc elitist POS

"Ofc you wouldnt think that b/c u game on ancient consoles rofl." go back fiddling yourself while playing crysis... >.>

HardCover4704d ago

"I'd say AA reached a "good enough" point this gen."

I strongly, strongly disagree.

GTA IV, even on PC, offends my eyes at times.

And how about those Gran Turismo shadows from the cockpit view? Worst jaggies since the PSX.

Infamous was another culprit I clearly recall.

And those are just games that I strongly enjoyed, yet was constantly reminded that anti-aliasing has a long way to go for general gaming.

DaTruth4704d ago

All I can say is that MSAA is probably better. But on my PS3 I have a choice of 2xMSAA, 4XMSAA and lower resolution or performance, or 8xMLAA(equivalent) with good console resolution(720p) and good performance!

Whatever works best for the hardware involved, but for those saying MLAA blurs textures, you obviously never played GOW3, because there is no blurring whatsoever anywhere... the game is renowned for its AA and textures in console gaming!

Denethor_II4704d ago

@DaTruth I game on the PS3 and PC a lot, and agree that GOW3's Visual are amazing.

Personally I'm reaching the stage where I use my PC more for gaming because when you start to get used to 1080p gaming it's very noticeable, and going back, with exception of the likes of Uncharted, GOW3 and the like, is very hard.

Angrymorgan4704d ago

Hardly any difference, but I guess it's more noticeable in motion, also I'm looking at I tiny iPhone screen : )

room4144704d ago

"Ofc you wouldnt think that b/c u game on ancient consoles rofl."

If you aren't gaming on "ancient" consoles you're missing out on a lot of the best games this generation.

I laugh at pc fangirls.

Ravenor4704d ago

@Skittles

Generally it's easy to make inside_out look like an idiot, without resorting to lame platform insults.

I do always get a laugh out of his Crysis 2 example.

evrfighter4704d ago

someone make a gif. btw in motion jaggies are hell on my eyes.

http://www.tweakguides.com/...

karl4704d ago (Edited 4704d ago )

no game today with all this new tech has immerse me like some games from the 90's

like maybe silent hill RE the first Fahrenheit
u know.. good old games that were not FPS =P

was forgetting the longest journey .. cant remember them all way to many..

SkittlesLikesPopcorn4704d ago (Edited 4704d ago )

I game on PC and PS3 so dont get your panties in a bunch. Im a big fan of GOW series and some other PS3 games.

Just dont spout bs for the sake of doing it... no need for that.

@Ravenor

That was one hell of a funny comment. Thanks.

nveenio4704d ago

God of War 3 sold me on MLAA.

starchild4704d ago

Anti-aliasing is extremely important to the image quality of our games. The following quote nearly sums up my feelings on the matter:

"Furthermore, the most realistic a computer-generated image is, the more important it is to have a near perfect anti-aliasing. When you were looking at a low-poly character five years ago, the appearance of the graphics looked rather synthetic. You didn't care about aliasing, as there were bigger graphics problems to look at.

"However, with current rendering advances, when you look at photo-realistic game content, aliasing may reveal that the image is synthetic and not real. So, in the future, as the realism of graphics continues to evolve, the importance of having high-quality anti-aliasing will become more and more important. We won't want the jaggies to destroy the illusion created by a perfectly animated and rendered character, revealing that it is, in truth, just a bunch of vertices smartly put together."

ViserysTargaryen4704d ago

Try playing BC 2 at 1080p max and 4X AA on the PC with 60 fps, then switch to BC 2 on the PS3. It's like you're going for Bluray to DVD. The difference is there all over the place. But it's not just AA that makes the difference, it's all of the above.

4703d ago
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ProjectVulcan4704d ago (Edited 4704d ago )

Their advantage over MSAA is that they are faster and cheaper. I still prefer MSAA though as a PC gamer. All the MSAA i can possibly get, it beats these post processes out.

You can still see how they mostly miss clearing up sub pixel edges, they still struggle. This is not good, because in many ways this is THE most noticeable type of aliasing, shimmering edges on wires or grass.

http://images.eurogamer.net...

http://images.eurogamer.net...

The thinnest sub pixel grass right slap bang in front of the camera, glaring aliasing as a broken stepped line as obvious as ever.

MSAA can and does fix that if you have enough whereas as you can see, neither the highest FXAA or MLAA does. For consoles these are great solutions, but for ultimate quality, MSAA wins hands down and i'll stick with it everywhere i possibly can on a PC with the performance to spare.

zero_cool4704d ago

MLAA has a different results on playstation 3 then it dose pc because playstation 3's has entirely different architecture from other platforms.

ProjectVulcan4704d ago (Edited 4704d ago )

Not really. The difference is mainly because the MLAA in Sony's SDK has been customised to run on PS3's CPU and then the developers have taken it and tailored it to their individual game. It works better when it is integrated at the design stage. Whereas PC versions that currently exist are not bespoke solutions, they are one size MLAA fits all.

Most PC developers aren't creating an MLAA solution specifically for their game that'll run in an x86 environment or on a DX11 GPU. FEAR 3 on PC does have an FXAA mode though, not that its as good as the best MSAA mode. The reason PC devs haven't is because MLAA just isn't a big deal for PC games because the extra performance and more advanced hardware is there to do MSAA without the problems that result on limited, aging console hardware.

Whatever way you look at it though it doesn't matter because MLAA is still weak on sub pixel aliasing versus MSAA, regardless of what game it runs in on PS3, or 360, or PC.

JBaby3434704d ago

Where does SSAA fit in? I've heard it is better than MSAA but uses too many resources but then I've also heard that it is old now and newer implementations of MSAA are better. It is better than MLAA? Please clarify.

I do agree with your comment that small things like wires and poles as well as foliage are the most noticeable areas of aliasing to me.

ProjectVulcan4704d ago (Edited 4704d ago )

Super Sampled Anti Aliasing is about as good as it gets regards quality for AA above even MSAA but as you correctly said, it uses massive resources especially at higher resolutions.

By rendering the image at a higher resolution than native and then downsampling it (shrinking with filters), you get near perfect anti aliased scenes with superb image quality. This is mostly employed by developers bullshotting their games to make then look better in stills. Basically taking a 1280 x 720 console game, rendering it at some massive res on a PC devkit @ like 5k x 3k then downsizing it back to 1280 x 720. Released as an 'in game' shot whereupon it looks fantastically smooth, far better than actual in game visuals. Bullshot.

You can do this in real time games with enough power. Lots of it. Because if you wanna run a game 1920 x 1080 with say just 4 x SSAA (2x2) that means you are actually rendering this at 3840 x 2160 with the extra filters on top.

This is of course, a massive res of over 8 million pixels a FRAME, nearly 250 million pixels a SECOND if you want 30 frames, a huge framebuffer memory size, and a whopping great chunk of bandwidth being ate up.

That might explain why SSAA is not a common method...

JBaby3434704d ago

Thanks for clearing that up vulcan. Very good explanation. I appreciate it. Always nice to learn something new.

Mr_Lu_Kim4704d ago

24x/32x with edge detection and morphological filtering.

:-)

as much as I can get.

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AWBrawler4704d ago

Yeah it all looks so similar to me, that I wouldn't mind it one way or another. Some people just look to hard for something to nag about

badz1494704d ago

But my god, no matter how many times I see it, GoW3 still amazes me till this day!

Dee_914704d ago

i prefer the zxxaa over the tuaazz
but the xaatuv is the best of the ztsuvaa

Zimmerman4704d ago

When I was a young kid and every game looked like garbage, my imagination was enough to keep me immersed in the game world. Hell, I got immersed in the 2d sonic games somehow.

Where has that gone? Why does "edge shimmering" matter so much to everyone all of a sudden? I understand that it's an improvement, and can see it myself, but if that's taking you out of the game you're playing it wrong imho.

YogiBear4704d ago

Because this is the internet age where everyone either complains or has an opinion. And everyone, I mean everyone knows more about something than you.

50Terabytespersec4704d ago

I WILL GLADLY TAKE NATIVE 1080p over this jargon anytime!!!!
Take a look at GT prologue on a Bravia 37" at 1080p and see what I mean!!
(although GOW3 does look phenomenal) hehe

fatstarr4704d ago (Edited 4704d ago )

my friend you love jaggies thats all i can say.
do some research b4 you post.
but yes once you game on a pc you notice things i guess.

sheesh AA and tessellation wont be known until next gen

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john24704d ago

The future is simple. SSAA 2x2 or 4x4 (that is if the next-gen consoles can handle it) ;)

Shanks4704d ago

"MLAA's expensive computational algorithms have hitherto made it suitable running on PlayStation 3 only, with the super-fast SPUs working in parallel to process the image in around 3-4 milliseconds. But MLAA is now being developed for Xbox 360 and PC too in the form of Jimenez MLAA"

"Jimenez MLAA runs on GPU, and there have been suggestions that the technique loses an element of quality as graphics cores handle somewhat simpler code than SPUs."

Since the PS3 version of MLAA runs on 5 SPUs in parallel it'll always be the superior one. The SPUs are total monsters when working in parallel.

Shaman4704d ago (Edited 4704d ago )

Parallel doesn't mean what you think it means...Developers go parallel with SPUs because of lower latency and because their rendering setup is that way.What I mean is,5 spus=20 ms of SPU time,each SPU will have to dedicate 4 ms of its time to complete the job if going parallel,it doesn't mean that suddenly you will go from 20ms to 4 ms time just because you went parallel,you will still lose 20ms of SPU time,its just that you will lose 4ms on each of those 5 SPUs and not 20ms on one.

You should have quoted the rest too..
"

"In our tests, it produces results on par (when not superior) to CPU MLAA. One of our best features is that we are very conservative with the image: we only process where we are sure there is a perceptible edge; and version 1.6 does a pretty good job searching for perceptible edges. This allows preserving the maximum sharpness while still processing all the relevant jaggies.""

Shanks4704d ago (Edited 4704d ago )

THANK YOU FOR STATING THE OBVIOUS!

Stop trying to sound smart, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. even if it's still 20ms, each SPU has more rendering time when they work in parallel. 20ms over 5 SPUs = 4ms for each SPU. but MLAA is not the only code that runs over 5 SPUs, talented devs can make the SPUs work in parallel most of the time with lots of different codes. such thing is called CODE EFFICIENCY.

And why would I quote the rest? they're probably referring to the PC version. the Xenos is not fast enough to match an SPU-based MLAA.

Shaman4704d ago

You obviously have no idea what you are talking about so I should just leave you alone.But,just to simplify.In parallel it means your rendering setup will be divided across multiple SPUs doing the same thing,its better that way because there is less latency than going by dividing your rendering setup to each of SPU.

Example...

Parallel setup

SPU1
-----(5 ms of 33ms of rendering time)
SPU2
-----(5 ms of 33ms of rendering time)
SPU3
-----(5 ms of 33ms of rendering time)
etc

You can do it like that in parallel or you can do it like this

SPU1
---------------(15ms of rendering time)

Its how you choose to setup your rendering setup,it wont fasten your rendering times,you will just divide cost across multiple SPUS BUT still taking the same time to finish operation.MLAA on one SPU=20ms,MLAA across 5 SPUS=4 ms EACH,meaning 20 ms in total.

fullmetal2974704d ago

LOL thanks for the laugh Shaman. Part of the reason why I visit this site is to see this kinda ownage. =D

Voxelman4704d ago (Edited 4704d ago )

the Xenos has 48 shader cores so theoretically it could be run on 40+ cores in parallel, so much for the CELL eh

parallelism isn't everything and add in the part you left off

"In our tests, it produces results on par (when not superior) to CPU MLAA. One of our best features is that we are very conservative with the image: we only process where we are sure there is a perceptible edge; and version 1.6 does a pretty good job searching for perceptible edges. This allows preserving the maximum sharpness while still processing all the relevant jaggies."

You would see that CPU MLAA isn't all that and for image quality MSAA/SSAA are still the best, unfortunately current consoles can't handle them with good image quality

DaTruth4704d ago (Edited 4704d ago )

"the Xenos has 48 shader cores so theoretically it could be run on 40+ cores in parallel, so much for the CELL eh"

LOL!!!!

This entire topic is being taken over by fanboys who are arguing for whatever technique is used on their system of preferred gaming!

BeastlyRig4704d ago (Edited 4704d ago )

mlaa sucks.. I rather a cleaner image not blurrier..

nickjkl4704d ago

point one article that says mlaa blurs the image

thats right you cant

only rumours of people saying it blurs the image

iamgoatman4704d ago

But it DOES blur the image, it's essentially an edge based post processing filter thats applied to an image to reduce aliasing. Although it may have an advantage by having relatively low overheads, it still has significant drawbacks like blurring textures.

It's not rumors or mere speculation, it's a FACT that it blurs the image, and you only need to find some screenshots taken using MLAA to see that. Google is your friend btw.

nickjkl4704d ago (Edited 4704d ago )

i said point to an article i see you have failed to provide proof

why should i look for something that doesn't exist

Hotel_Moscow4704d ago

Damn xtreampro_REVENGE! , nickjkl was only asking for a sauce you didnt have to attack hm/her like that.

HydroCopper4704d ago Show
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monkey nuts4704d ago (Edited 4704d ago )

Er have you not played god of war 3? The game uses mlaa and the image on screen is cleaner and sharper than something that is also very clean and sharp, like a knife or something similar. For instance. I also remember a digital foundry review of the process when it was first implemented in the saboteur and they likened it to x16 AA.

BlackKnight4703d ago

Considering we have never seen a NON-AA screenshot of GoW3, how do we know if it's blurring or not?

People never seem to have a screenshot comparison, they are just talking out their ass.

kaveti66164704d ago

@nickjkl

Did you read this particular article by DF, where it is stated that, ""Because it's search-based and uses a large set of patterns, it's expensive but can do a fantastic job when it finds a genuine edge; blurring only that edge and nothing else producing a flawlessly anti-aliased edge. However, when it finds 'false' edges - for example, finding an edge in a noisy texture that it really shouldn't blur - it will exaggerate noise since the blur effect will change direction from frame to frame (different patterns will be matched on each frame), exaggerating temporal aliasing."

There you go.

ps3bestever4704d ago ShowReplies(1)
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150°

Kingdom Come Deliverance 2's Scope Was Impacted by Xbox Series S Limitations

Wccf tech writes: "Kingdom Come Deliverance 2's scope was impacted by the Xbox Series S hardware limitations, as developers could only make a game that was 25% bigger than its predecessor."

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wccftech.com
-Foxtrot6h ago

This is the issue with things like this

Xbox Series X is apparently to MS the worlds most powerful console

However the Series S is obviously a limitation because it’s underpowered and developers have to go for parity.

So what’s the point of the world’s most powerful console if you are holding third party developers back? They aren’t going to push themselves if they have to think about the weakest console.

The issue wouldn’t be as bad if it was just Xbox but you are also affecting the PS version aswell

I think developers need to start just taking advantage of a console and if one of them can’t do X Y and Z then f*** them…why should the others suffer. What’s MS going to do? The bigger the franchise the least chance MS are going to tell them to f*** off. Baulders Gate 3 seemed to have stood their ground and suddenly their “strict” parity rule didn’t really matter. We suddenly got super optimisation efforts for the Series S that got things sorted.

anast3h ago

I agree, and the sad part is use normal folk saw it the second they announced their plans.

LucasRuinedChildhood7h ago

More info from the author of the article, I think: https://www.reddit.com/r/ki...

Quote:
"1) I was told this info from the producer of the game Martin Klíma.
2) He specifically said the game will have only one mode.
3) And this mode is 4K 30 on PS5/XSX and 1440p 30 on XSS.
4) He said that the game is already running north of the 30 FPS cap so the performance should be stable on launch, much better than KCD1.
5) The limitation was XSS because of the 10GB memory. He said that's why they wanted to make the game 25% larger.
6) Speculation on my part: the output resolution is probably upscaled and the reason why there won't be a 60 FPS mode is because it'll most likely be very CPU heavy, like Dragon's Dogma 2 for example."

Doesn't seem like they're adding a 40fps mode on PS5/Series X for launch even if they can handle it.

Sgt_Slaughter3h ago

I'd much rather have 1440p/60fps or even 45fps. Having just one, even with the Series S in mind, is disappointing.

franwex1h ago(Edited 1h ago)

Remember when xbots were adamant that the series s won’t hold back the gen?

Microsoft just needs to let go of the mandatory parity. Who cares if your grandma doesn’t understand that a game cannot be played on the S. It’s not like it she can buy you a physical game for it anyway. Before buying the game put up a notice that it only works on series X. If you’re buying for a friend-allow for a refund.

Bam. Everyone is happy. Most series s owners are for casuals that want Game Pass anyway and most likely don’t purchase most games.

If the developers want it to run on S, let them figure it out.

Jin_Sakai1h ago

“During the event, the Kingdom Come Deliverance 2 producer also revealed that on PlayStation 5 and Xbox Series X, the game will run at 4K resolution and 30 frames per second“

Another “creative decision” right? 🤦‍♂️

IHateNate1h ago

Amateur hour. Very incapable developer.

Outside_ofthe_Box51m ago(Edited 51m ago)

Since you're not an amateur and clearly know more than them, can you over there and help get the game running on the S without having to sacrifice their true vision. Us gamers would really appreciate you using your wisdom for good 🙏

IHateNate48m ago

Thousands of games run just fine on S.

But Kingdom Come is the game that can’t. Must be one hell of a game!

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100°

Celebrate the Diablo Anniversary with March of the Goblins

Come celebrate the 1-year anniversary of Diablo IV and the 2-year anniversary of Diablo Immortal! There are heaps of rewards to mark these celebrations with a bounty of devilish goods across both games.

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terminalgamer.com
anast8h ago

This game is about to get buried by Path 2.

LordoftheCritics7h ago

Still no global chat or group finder.

The emptiest MP game ever made.

OtterX7h ago

1 more month then I can celebrate 1 year since i stopped playing and uninstalled the game.

Walalon5h ago

We are on the same team brother!

Rynxie2h ago

I uninstalled d4 after they kept screwing over the sorc build and I beat the game. I also uninstalled immortal after reading the end. I actually went back to d2r here and there.

70°

Tales of the Shire Stands at a Fork in the Road Regarding Magic

Tales of the Shire has many hurdles to jump to live up to the J.R.R. Tolkien masterpiece, and magical elements might be its most pertinent one.

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gamerant.com